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OfflineSimms
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Plants that could kill the enviornment
    #14534167 - 05/30/11 01:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Is such thing possible?

We know people are very able to kill the enviornment, but yesterday I came to a thought, what if plants were too.

Are there, for example, such parasitic or self multiplying plants that turn the enviornment unsuitable to most other lifeforms? Is such plant life theoretically and logically possible?

For example, there could be very well a plant that grows everywhere, eventually destroying every other plant life, and since it is too poisonous (like emitting nerve gas to prevent animal life from eating and adapting to it), no-one will eat it and life will eventually die.

Could such thing happen due to some mutation?


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: Simms]
    #14534182 - 05/30/11 02:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well, apart from the question if the environment can be 'killed' (I have the opinion that life will adapt, see here), I don't think it's very likely. The reason for this is that humans are extremely adaptive when it comes to living conditions and diet. That means we can live just about anywhere, and off of anything. In the process, we have the ability to defend ourselves against other species. I'm not aware of any plants that have these three properties. It's not impossible that such a species could evolve, though. Although I'd expect it to be a fungus or a mold, sooner than a plant.

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: koraks]
    #14534186 - 05/30/11 02:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Well, apart from the question if the environment can be 'killed' (I have the opinion that life will adapt, see here), I don't think it's very likely. The reason for this is that humans are extremely adaptive when it comes to living conditions and diet. That means we can live just about anywhere, and off of anything. In the process, we have the ability to defend ourselves against other species. I'm not aware of any plants that have these three properties. It's not impossible that such a species could evolve, though. Although I'd expect it to be a fungus or a mold, sooner than a plant.



What Koraks said.  I have the same views.  In short the answer is no, but anything is possible.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: Simms]
    #14534267 - 05/30/11 02:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I don't know about killing the environment, but they can sure change one, particularly invasive species like Kudzu.

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: Simms]
    #14535480 - 05/30/11 11:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Plants (and I'm using the term loosely to refer to anything that photosynthesizes) have already "killed the environment" once in history.  When plants first evolved, all life on earth was anaerobic and the atmosphere was very oxygen-poor.  When photosynthesis evolved, plants started kicking so much ass that they completely changed the atmosphere on earth by filling it with oxygen for the first time.  This killed off nearly all other life on the planet.

See Great oxygenation event

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14535643 - 05/30/11 12:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Plants (and I'm using the term loosely to refer to anything that photosynthesizes) have already "killed the environment" once in history.  When plants first evolved, all life on earth was anaerobic and the atmosphere was very oxygen-poor.  When photosynthesis evolved, plants started kicking so much ass that they completely changed the atmosphere on earth by filling it with oxygen for the first time.  This killed off nearly all other life on the planet.

See Great oxygenation event




In theory...


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14535689 - 05/30/11 12:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Inner Eye said:
In theory...



That's right. Because we all know that the Earth was Created some 6,000 years ago by God.

But apart from my lame attempt at a joke, what makes you doubt the oxygenation event? I mean, I'm no expert, but to me at least the concept has face validity.

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: koraks]
    #14535712 - 05/30/11 12:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

The Inner Eye said:
In theory...



That's right. Because we all know that the Earth was Created some 6,000 years ago by God.

But apart from my lame attempt at a joke, what makes you doubt the oxygenation event? I mean, I'm no expert, but to me at least the concept has face validity.




Sure it does.... In theory.

Look man, im not disagreeing with you, but you cant go around saying this stuff like its a proven fact.  Thats what science is, and until you bring forth conclusive evidence than I will always say "in theory".


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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: koraks]
    #14535717 - 05/30/11 12:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:


But apart from my lame attempt at a joke,




I dont get it....


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Edited by The Inner Eye (05/30/11 12:36 PM)

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14535740 - 05/30/11 12:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The theory of Terence Mckennas's stoned apes has validity to it as well.... Not the most popular view in the scientific world.


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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14535750 - 05/30/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The rising oxygen levels may have wiped out a huge portion of the Earth's anaerobic inhabitants at the time.


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Offlinesnoot
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14535988 - 05/30/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

define environment, I dont think there is anything that is dangerous to everything else in nature. Nature has a superb way of maintaining balance, there is always something that is no effect or rather may benefit from something that others things are harmed by. This is the beauty, I can't imagine anything in nature that is absolutely destructive. Maybe AIDS, idk. but thats not a plant. :frown:


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I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: Simms]
    #14536156 - 05/30/11 01:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Of all the kingdoms to choose from, I would say the plant kingdom poses the least threat to humans and life in general.

They already had their 15 eons of fame.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: The Inner Eye] * 2
    #14538510 - 05/30/11 11:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Inner Eye said:
Look man, im not disagreeing with you, but you cant go around saying this stuff like its a proven fact.  Thats what science is, and until you bring forth conclusive evidence than I will always say "in theory".




How sophomoric.  This is a science forum--everything is presumed to be "in theory".  Get over it.  That's no way to live your life, son.

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OfflineSimms
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14538551 - 05/30/11 11:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Plants (and I'm using the term loosely to refer to anything that photosynthesizes) have already "killed the environment" once in history.  When plants first evolved, all life on earth was anaerobic and the atmosphere was very oxygen-poor.  When photosynthesis evolved, plants started kicking so much ass that they completely changed the atmosphere on earth by filling it with oxygen for the first time.  This killed off nearly all other life on the planet.

See Great oxygenation event




They killed off nearly all other life on planet, BUT, they survived? Plants are anaerobic too.

Ok, lets expand the killing idea to fungus also. Is it possible, that there is or could evolve a fungus that does not defend itself from picking, but actually totally prevents any harm by, lets say for example: releasing poisonous gas into air in advance, killing its surroundings, thus preventing any harm?

Now the obvious result would be, that eventually the plant/fungi would run out of resources because life lives on life, there are not many fungi or plants that can survive on pure sand. Now, are there any other possibilities?

Are viruses like described before? Or do all viruses need a host body for reproduction?

Any such life possible at all?

Or is this concluding in the aspect that there must be at least two forms of life in order for life to exist? True?

How first life evolved then?


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Edited by Simms (05/30/11 11:25 PM)

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: Simms]
    #14538617 - 05/30/11 11:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Simms said:
They killed off nearly all other life on planet, BUT, they survived? Plants are anaerobic too.




What's your problem with that?  Even today, after millions of years of oxygen-rich earth, most anaerobes are killed on exposure to oxygen.  How much more so before there was even a trace of oxygen in the atmosphere to prompt such adaptions as defenses against attack by oxygen?

[Edit: grammar]

Edited by ChuangTzu (05/31/11 11:07 AM)

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14538833 - 05/31/11 12:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Plants (and I'm using the term loosely to refer to anything that photosynthesizes) have already "killed the environment" once in history.  When plants first evolved, all life on earth was anaerobic and the atmosphere was very oxygen-poor.  When photosynthesis evolved, plants started kicking so much ass that they completely changed the atmosphere on earth by filling it with oxygen for the first time.  This killed off nearly all other life on the planet.

See Great oxygenation event




Yes, they changed the environment. Some organisms died out but others arose to take their place.

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14539033 - 05/31/11 02:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

/edit: I wrote something here, but it's all just theory. A dream within a dream.

Edited by koraks (05/31/11 03:26 AM)

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Offlinewaixingren
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: Simms]
    #14539108 - 05/31/11 02:59 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

There are plants capable of large scale destruction when introduced to a new environment. I use the word "destruction" loosely because in reality it is just a process of natural selection. Take the Brazilian pepper bush for example. It has ravaged the central/southern florida landscape. It was introduced to the northern hemisphere as a decorative landscaping plant because of its bright leaves and red fruit. It spreads wild with no competition or threat from the native wildlife. The only thing that is stopping it from spreading farther north is freezing temperatures. Florida's best environmentalists have yet to find a method of natural control. It colonizes acres of land, choking out anything in its path. I suspect eventually some type of fungi or insect will come along to fill the niche and bring the pepper bush under control. The southern half of florida is a relatively small piece of the environment when you consider the entire planet.

Another example could be red tide. phytoplankton devastate massive amounts of marine life every year by releasing toxins or depleting massive amounts of oxygen in the water. These outbreaks happen on a natural cycle in many places. However some attribute major outbreaks to agricultural nutrient runoff fueling the little plants.

These destructive games can be linked to human activity but they occur using natural players. In a sense this is still just natural selection working. When we get to events such as nuclear melt downs or massive oil spills we can start to leave the realm of natural selection and attribute it to human intent and neglect. This is true destruction that can devastate the environment on a much larger scale. I think an intelligence of our degree is the most dangerous thing the environment has dealt with to date.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Plants that could kill the enviornment [Re: Simms]
    #14539120 - 05/31/11 03:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The only way I could see it happening, would be by someone genetically engineering a plant that would spread unnoticed, and then suddenly release a deadly virus, possibly through pollen. The pollen would serve as a protective shell which would preserve the virus for long periods of time, and It would take forever to figure out where the virus was coming from.


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