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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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For your entertainment 7
#14530766 - 05/29/11 01:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: For your entertainment [Re: Icelander]
#14530828 - 05/29/11 01:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Q: What animal has more lives than a cat? A: A frog. It croaks every night.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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I AM SWIM
doin' thangs


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Re: For your entertainment [Re: Icelander] 1
#14530856 - 05/29/11 01:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Great video. Thanks for sharing.
I think if more people were aware of their own mortality, the world would be a much better place. I see why you are so fond of it now.
"Death is the only wise advisor that we have. Whenever you feel, as you always do, that everything is going wrong and you're about to be annihilated, turn to your death and ask if that is so. Your death will tell you that you're wrong; that nothing really matters outside its touch. Your death will tell you, 'I haven't touched you yet." — Carlos Castaneda (Journey to Ixtlan)

"I close my eyes Only for a moment, and the moment's gone"
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Tony
Stranger

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Re: For your entertainment [Re: Icelander]
#14530881 - 05/29/11 01:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Good vid. The thing with death though is that if you start to think about it too much then inevitably you will also talk about it, and that's not necessarily a good thing for your social life. Also, it's not something you want to glorify, because there is no actual state of 'death' that can be attained. Freedom has to be attained while alive or it is only a concept just like death. I think that came up in the vid also. So this "remember you will die" is not really a truth, I guess it's more something to shock the mind with so the essential question "who am I" can be confronted with an improved sense of urgency. Merely thinking about death will simply perpetuate the act itself.
Edited by Tony (05/29/11 02:04 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: For your entertainment [Re: Kickle]
#14530948 - 05/29/11 02:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Q: What animal has more lives than a cat? A: A frog. It croaks every night.
Now that's the spirit.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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I AM SWIM
doin' thangs


Registered: 12/24/08
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Re: For your entertainment [Re: Tony]
#14531017 - 05/29/11 02:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tony said: Good vid. The thing with death though is that if you start to think about it too much then inevitably you will also talk about it, and that's not necessarily a good thing for your social life.
I agree that solely talking about death can probably be detrimental to a social life, but thinking about death doesn't necessarily lead to one talking about it. Some people can simply keep their thoughts to themselves.
Quote:
Also, it's not something you want to glorify, because there is no actual state of 'death' that can be attained.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you said: there is no actual state of 'death' that can be attained. Doesn't that statement ring out that you have an idea about what happens after you die? Such as the belief that after death is nothingness/void.
Many atheists hold on to that belief, and it brings them comfort. I think it's another shield in disguise. Because if death is nothingness, then the state of death cannot be obtained since the state of death would be the void.
And we don't know if that is true or not. There may be an afterlife for all we know, there may not be. The imagination can probably think of an infinity of ways of what happens after death, and in the end. We will never know until we die, and even then, we may still not know.
Quote:
Merely thinking about death will simply perpetuate the act itself.
I don't understand what you said/meant in this quote. What is the act?
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Raptoralic
Tomorrow Never Knows


Registered: 03/06/09
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Re: For your entertainment [Re: Tony] 1
#14531025 - 05/29/11 02:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is the end Beautiful friend This is the end My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end Of everything that stands, the end No safety or surprise, the end I'll never look into your eyes...again
Can you picture what will be So limitless and free Desperately in need...of some...stranger's hand In a...desperate land
..... My favorite doors' song
-------------------- Donnie: Why do you wear that stupid bunny suit? Frank: Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: For your entertainment [Re: I AM SWIM]
#14531075 - 05/29/11 02:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you said: there is no actual state of 'death' that can be attained. Doesn't that statement ring out that you have an idea about what happens after you die? Such as the belief that after death is nothingness/void.
Many atheists hold on to that belief, and it brings them comfort. I think it's another shield in disguise. Because if death is nothingness, then the state of death cannot be obtained since the state of death would be the void.
And we don't know if that is true or not. There may be an afterlife for all we know, there may not be. The imagination can probably think of an infinity of ways of what happens after death, and in the end. We will never know until we die, and even then, we may still not know.
agree
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: For your entertainment [Re: Raptoralic]
#14531084 - 05/29/11 02:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Raptoralic said: This is the end Beautiful friend This is the end My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end Of everything that stands, the end No safety or surprise, the end I'll never look into your eyes...again
Can you picture what will be So limitless and free Desperately in need...of some...stranger's hand In a...desperate land
..... My favorite doors' song
Jim was one of those rare humans that wanted to look into death. That does not mean he did not fear it but he did not fear looking. Or maybe better to say he was less afraid of looking then not looking.
Here, imo, is one of his strangest comments on the subject.
I will not go, I prefer a feast of friends to the giant family
I think I know what he was saying.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head


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Re: For your entertainment [Re: Icelander]
#14532010 - 05/29/11 05:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oh come oooooooonnnnnnnnn
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head


Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
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Re: For your entertainment [Re: circastes]
#14532019 - 05/29/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm starting to think religion/Christianity is to blame for this ridiculous 'death' idea.
My intuition makes me HATE religious people. I actually feel kind of ill in their presence. They are part of an organization responsible for so much...
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head


Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
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Re: For your entertainment [Re: circastes]
#14532023 - 05/29/11 05:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I called one of the case manager thing peoples a "Catholic cocksucker" because he put the child lock on my door. He almost went me. He was fucking furious lol.
(I'm only involved in this because of too much ecstasy - I regret it)
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: For your entertainment [Re: Icelander]
#14532828 - 05/29/11 08:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wb.
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c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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Re: For your entertainment [Re: teknix]
#14532892 - 05/29/11 08:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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"Death is the demon you can ride into every battle."
Great video.
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c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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Re: For your entertainment [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#14532933 - 05/29/11 08:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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"The question is - Do you want it?"
I'm torn...
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Tony
Stranger

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Re: For your entertainment [Re: I AM SWIM]
#14533157 - 05/29/11 09:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
I AM SWIM said: I agree that solely talking about death can probably be detrimental to a social life, but thinking about death doesn't necessarily lead to one talking about it. Some people can simply keep their thoughts to themselves.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you said: there is no actual state of 'death' that can be attained. Doesn't that statement ring out that you have an idea about what happens after you die? Such as the belief that after death is nothingness/void.
Many atheists hold on to that belief, and it brings them comfort. I think it's another shield in disguise. Because if death is nothingness, then the state of death cannot be obtained since the state of death would be the void.
And we don't know if that is true or not. There may be an afterlife for all we know, there may not be. The imagination can probably think of an infinity of ways of what happens after death, and in the end. We will never know until we die, and even then, we may still not know.
Quote:
Merely thinking about death will simply perpetuate the act itself.
I don't understand what you said/meant in this quote. What is the act?
You're right that thoughts don't have to be expressed. However I personally find that if I'm thinking about something compulsively it also gets automatically reflected in what I do. For example if I'm thinking hard what kind of a car I should buy my attention automatically starts going to different kinds of cars and car ads. Or if I'm thinking about spirituality/death/etc it's almost impossible to resist logging into shroomery to discuss these issues and spread my own confusion 
What I meant by death not being an attainable state is like don't think of death as though you're going through a worm hole only to get stuck there. You can't get stuck anywhere forever, fortunately. Therefore attaining something is only an experience. We are already in the great wormhole of life(and death and everything).
Thinking about death IME entails more thinking about death. It's like getting hypnotized by a fractal pattern. You can zoom in almost infinitely and try to approach it from different angles but it's always just revealing more patterns, speculations, feelings, etc etc. Nothing wrong with it of course, but eventually it's good to ask whether it's really conducive towards anything useful.
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader



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Re: For your entertainment [Re: Tony] 1
#14533369 - 05/29/11 10:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't plan on dying. I wanna back up my mind drive onto the web.
--------------------
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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IMO this scene from Fight Club shows a useful way to wake people up out of their complacent, fear-driven lives via death anxiety: A bit extreme, perhaps, but desperate men call for desperate measures.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: For your entertainment [Re: deCypher]
#14534422 - 05/30/11 04:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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'death awareness is the universal spiritual practice'
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soldatheero
lastirishman


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Re: For your entertainment [Re: Icelander]
#14537463 - 05/30/11 07:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Interesting video. I think the general idea of the video is that death should be contemplated intensely and deeply. I think this is a useful concept as death causes one to truly delve into search for the meaning of life and even "what is life".
Coincidentally I read this for the first time a couple of days ago and found it very profound and prolific, as I do with all of Meher's discourses (as you all know, lol)'
I would think you Icelander could relate to this, I believe your cynicism comes from your belief that death is most probably the end.
"The immersion of the individual in the routing of life causes him to be seriously disturbed by the sudden experience of death, particularly when it takes away someone who has been near and dear to him. When the sight of death becomes too frequent, as in time of war or during an epidemic, the individual's mind tends to protect itself by retiring within a shell of habit and routine. Familiar actions, faces, and surroundings, which require no thought or adjustment, become at such times a buttress to his emotional balance.
But even this wall of cultivated indifference crumbles when the hand of death snatches away someone who has entered deeply into his inner life—someone who perhaps acted as a pivotal point upon which his emotions turned. At such a time his unquestioning attitude towards life is disturbed and his mind becomes deeply preoccupied with an intensive search for lasting values.
The life of each person is deeply enmeshed in this mystery of death. But it is a mystery which accents thought instead of dulling it, for if anything makes a man think intensely about the true nature of life, it is the recurrent theme of death. As the tale of life is told it pauses frequently to contemplate the gaping holes left by death. There is no way to avoid the thought provoking impact of that inescapable presence.
Although none escapes the intensive search for the hidden secret to the meaning of death, few can lift the veil and unravel the mystery. For most it remains a soul-searching enigma which causes deep restlessness; for some it offers a wide field for imaginative speculation; for the few, it yields its secret.
Many refuse to accept death as the simple, final extinction of the individual, but this reaction is more often a form of unreasoned wish than a matter of unshakable conviction. Even so, this instinctive rebellion should not be lightly dismissed, for much of the vigor of this blind protest against the seeming fact of death springs from an obscure but still functioning intuition. However, this intuitive reaction does not approach the more secure position achieved through reasoned belief based on faith in the authority of a seer, or on the direct perception of those who know. When a sensitive individual is first faced by a death of deep significance in his circle of close friends, he is usually struck by the transitory nature of all forms of life. Confronted by the undeniable impermanence of the body, yet unfortified by knowledge of some sustaining permanent principle, he often falls into a mood of deep despair or supercilious cynicism.
If life is inexorably doomed to extinction, he reasons, there can be little meaning in the frantic efforts to achieve. In turn, this thought leaves him in a vacuum of purpose which may lead him either to a state of supine inaction, or may precipitate him into reckless rebellion. To him, existence seems to be conditional, intermittent and vanishing, while extinction appears to be unqualified, inescapable, and permanent. When such a grim conclusion has been reached, whether consciously or unconsciously, the individual is tempted to rain death and destruction upon others, or to invite it upon himself, merely because death appears to be more lasting than life. The recklessly destructive desperado and the determined suicide belong to this type. They cannot accept life as having any real value, because their initial, unthinking faith in the value of life has been uprooted by the rude shock of death.
If death is accepted as real, and longer in duration than life, then life is degraded below meaninglessness. Even then, such values in life as truth, beauty, goodness, and love can claim some intrinsic worth despite their fleeting existence. But in practical fact, all keenness for the pursuit of even these momentary values is gradually replaced by a sense of hopeless apathy, for one hears constantly a background whisper which says that they too are doomed to vanish one day.
If the cat, while stealthily drinking milk, knows that someone is waiting outside their door with a club, she can hardly relish the flavor of her surreptitious meal. Similarly, a man who comes to know that all his achievements must soon be brought to naught, can hardly have his heart in his efforts. If he stops to reflect that all the people he loves are earmarked for early conversion to dust, then his spontaneous enthusiasm gradually dries up and he is forced to consider what he is striving for. If he tries to cling to those loved ones despite his new awareness; all the desperateness of his ensuing efforts becomes only a sacrifice to vanity.
In order to avoid the pain which he is bound to feel at the inevitable loss of his dear ones, he may try to avoid life by adopting the viewpoint that the living are no more than on a par with the dead. The success of such a game depends upon an exact equation, for if he holds the slightest preference for the living, he will be gravely affected when the living become the dead.
He is forced finally to face the fact that if death means the extinction of his beloved brothers in a blind vacuum of eternity, then the entire game of life is a meaningless tragedy. All courage, sacrifice, and loyalty to ideals become a farce, and all vital seeking takes on the cast of empty endeavor, of much effort without purpose. Fear of loss treads closely upon all earnest attempts to appropriate and inherit the significance of life, depriving it of all sweetness.
In short, if death is looked upon as mere extinction, man tends to lose his balance and is plunged into perpetual gloom. All his dreams of the enduring reality of truth, beauty, and love are refuted and seem by hindsight to have been a blind groping after illusion. His previous ideal of eternity and inexhaustible sweetness, instead of filling him with hope and enthusiasm, now reproaches him with the utter senselessness of all earthly values.
Thus death, when not understood, vitiates the whole of life, and the first impulsive answer of inaction or cynicism, which the individual usually forges to meet the question, strands him in a thoroughly desiccated universe of unrelieved weariness. Nevertheless, this gradually prepares him for another attempt to find a more vital answer to the inescapable query.
The human mind cannot endure such a stalemate for long, as there is an internal force which insists that the inner nature be in motion. Eventually the pressure for such motion breaks through the rigidity of such a negative concept of death. A great flood of new interrogation and discovery often breaks out, and in it the key question now posed by death becomes "What is life?"
It continues on but it is an entire chapter and too much to post here. For more http://www.ambppct.org/meherbaba/Book_Files/LISTEN,%20HUMANITY.pdf
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
Edited by soldatheero (05/30/11 07:44 PM)
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