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InvisibleMufungo
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All drugs should be legalised... debate.
    #14529539 - 05/29/11 08:11 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I heard this very debate on the radio last week... http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bigideas/stories/2011/3221559.htm

I won't say which side won the debate. I know this site might be swayed towards the affirmative, but I wondered if anyone here would disagree with all drugs being legalised? If so, what's the argument which supports the opinion that they shouldn't be legalised?

I am for all drugs being legalised based on
a) prohibition hasn't worked at reducing drug consumption
b) making drugs legal would cut the cost on policing drugs
c) making drugs legal would free up funds that could be directed towards harm minimisation projects
d) countries that have legalised all drugs have had positive outcomes
e) the current system makes a criminal out of a huge proportion of society who partakes in drug consumption
f) the current system makes drugs more expensive
g) the current system is missing out on a potential tax revenue
h) the current system makes it more difficult for people to get help when they need it for fear of getting in trouble with the law
i) criminal syndicates get some of their funding through the sale of drugs, which could be greatly reduced if drugs were legal


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: Mufungo] * 1
    #14529571 - 05/29/11 08:30 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

This is a no brainer


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #14529961 - 05/29/11 11:46 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
This is a no brainer




Then I won't be debating with you on it. You always win the no brainer discussions. :shrug:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #14530005 - 05/29/11 12:09 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Thank you.:heart:

Turns out my lack of brains is a big plus.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinenemesis94
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: Icelander]
    #14533162 - 05/29/11 11:34 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I disagree. Sure alot of drugs should be legalized but just imagine if anybody could get their hands on PCP whenever they wanted. Thats a no-no :House2:


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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: nemesis94]
    #14533191 - 05/29/11 11:39 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Thats their problem. Natural selection will weed out stupid people who want to do destructive drugs. Heroin is illegal but it doesn't stop people from obtaining it now.


--------------------
^v^


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: nemesis94] * 1
    #14533212 - 05/29/11 11:44 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

nemesis94 said:
I disagree. Sure alot of drugs should be legalized but just imagine if anybody could get their hands on PCP whenever they wanted. Thats a no-no :House2:





It's not a no no.  If I become violent then I'll get busted and do time.

I can buy a car and that can kill.  I can buy a gun and that can kill. I can buy hornet spray and that can kill. And especially I can buy alcohol which is involved in tons of crimes, accidents, and violent acts.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: Mufungo]
    #14533231 - 05/29/11 11:47 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:
I heard this very debate on the radio last week... http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bigideas/stories/2011/3221559.htm

I won't say which side won the debate. I know this site might be swayed towards the affirmative, but I wondered if anyone here would disagree with all drugs being legalised? If so, what's the argument which supports the opinion that they shouldn't be legalised?

I am for all drugs being legalised based on
a) prohibition hasn't worked at reducing drug consumption
b) making drugs legal would cut the cost on policing drugs
c) making drugs legal would free up funds that could be directed towards harm minimisation projects
d) countries that have legalised all drugs have had positive outcomes
e) the current system makes a criminal out of a huge proportion of society who partakes in drug consumption
f) the current system makes drugs more expensive
g) the current system is missing out on a potential tax revenue
h) the current system makes it more difficult for people to get help when they need it for fear of getting in trouble with the law
i) criminal syndicates get some of their funding through the sale of drugs, which could be greatly reduced if drugs were legal




Hey Mu,

Not sure if you've seen this thread already but it's got the counter arguments -

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721

What I wonder is, if all drugs did become legal, what category of drugs would the majority be using and what would our children be like 100's of years down the road :eek:  Interesting thought.


Edited by deranger (05/29/11 11:47 PM)


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: nemesis94]
    #14533248 - 05/29/11 11:50 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

nemesis94 said:
I disagree. Sure alot of drugs should be legalized but just imagine if anybody could get their hands on PCP whenever they wanted. Thats a no-no :House2:




I used to get my hands on PCP anytime I wanted, though it was a yes-yes, every time :gethigh:


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: nemesis94] * 1
    #14533393 - 05/30/11 12:25 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

nemesis94 said:
I disagree. Sure alot of drugs should be legalized but just imagine if anybody could get their hands on PCP whenever they wanted. Thats a no-no :House2:


Why is that a no-no? Just because you yourself don't like PCP? I suppose all the drugs you do like are yes-yeses? :whatever:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinedon_vedo
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #14533619 - 05/30/11 01:19 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I can buy a car and that can kill.  I can buy a gun and that can kill. I can buy hornet spray and that can kill. And especially I can buy alcohol which is involved in tons of crimes, accidents, and violent acts.




I like that :thumbup:


--------------------
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: don_vedo]
    #14533662 - 05/30/11 01:28 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

You spelled his last name wrong..it's Vito, not Vedo.






:themoreyouknow:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: Mufungo]
    #14533871 - 05/30/11 02:08 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I'm all for decriminalizing all drugs(not going after people for possession) as Portugal has done.  Legalization is another matter.  Legalization involves the actual sale of drugs.  It also happens to be a matter of degree, and I think there should be a sliding scale in terms of the availability of drugs.  Plainly put, I don't think heroin should not be as readily available as cannabis.  I do think doctors should be able to prescribe maintenance doses to addicts.  Perhaps it should even be available through mail order.  But I would hesitate to allow it to be sold in supermarkets.  There may be an argument to be made in favor of that, and perhaps supermarkets would choose not to sell it anyway, but I'd be a bit hesitant to go forward with a full-fledged "anything goes" attitude.


--------------------


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: Silversoul]
    #14533904 - 05/30/11 02:16 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
But I would hesitate to allow it to be sold in supermarkets.  There may be an argument to be made in favor of that, and perhaps supermarkets would choose not to sell it anyway, but I'd be a bit hesitant to go forward with a full-fledged "anything goes" attitude.


Care to explain why?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinedon_vedo
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: Poid]
    #14534004 - 05/30/11 02:44 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
You spelled his last name wrong..it's Vito, not Vedo.





Hahaha well it's a good thing I wasn't basing the name off that guy. Vedo = childhood nickname, I was reppin the Don_Vedo long before that guy got famous.


--------------------
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: don_vedo]
    #14534051 - 05/30/11 03:01 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Oh, lol, I totally thought the chances that you weren't basing your name off him were incredibly miniscule, it seemed like too much of a coincidence for me. :lol:


Carry on, good sir. :hatsoff:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineSimms
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: Mufungo]
    #14534094 - 05/30/11 03:23 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:
I heard this very debate on the radio last week... http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bigideas/stories/2011/3221559.htm

I won't say which side won the debate. I know this site might be swayed towards the affirmative, but I wondered if anyone here would disagree with all drugs being legalised? If so, what's the argument which supports the opinion that they shouldn't be legalised?

I am for all drugs being legalised based on
a) prohibition hasn't worked at reducing drug consumption
b) making drugs legal would cut the cost on policing drugs
c) making drugs legal would free up funds that could be directed towards harm minimisation projects
d) countries that have legalised all drugs have had positive outcomes
e) the current system makes a criminal out of a huge proportion of society who partakes in drug consumption
f) the current system makes drugs more expensive
g) the current system is missing out on a potential tax revenue
h) the current system makes it more difficult for people to get help when they need it for fear of getting in trouble with the law
i) criminal syndicates get some of their funding through the sale of drugs, which could be greatly reduced if drugs were legal




I think drugs should not be legalized because there shouldn't be anyone that has such power in the first place. Somehow, we are all prisoners, someone else decides our freedom. This is not life, this is prison.

"Oh but people could hurt themselves with drugs.." yeah, sure, thats their problem, isn't it? Or should it be your problem?


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: Simms]
    #14534111 - 05/30/11 03:30 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Simms said:
I think drugs should not be legalized because there shouldn't be anyone that has such power in the first place. Somehow, we are all prisoners, someone else decides our freedom. This is not life, this is prison.


So you would prefer living in a free-for-all, anarchistic, survival-of-the-fittest environment to living in a relatively safe environment regulated by laws? The latter may be prison, but the former would be hell..I seriously doubt many humans would live comfortable lives if they lived in the former environment.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: Silversoul]
    #14534137 - 05/30/11 03:41 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Duplicate


Edited by johnm214 (05/30/11 11:23 AM)


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: All drugs should be legalised... debate. [Re: johnm214]
    #14534145 - 05/30/11 03:44 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)


Quote:

nemesis94 said:
I disagree. Sure alot of drugs should be legalized but just imagine if anybody could get their hands on PCP whenever they wanted. Thats a no-no :House2:





My drugs are better than your drugs.


I should be left alone for enjoying my coffee and prozac, but you should be jailed, you dirty swine!

How absurd.


Quote:

Silversoul said:
I'm all for decriminalizing all drugs(not going after people for possession) as Portugal has done.  Legalization is another matter.  Legalization involves the actual sale of drugs.




Uh, how does prohibition or decriminalization not involve the sale of drugs?  I can't understand these strange one-sided anlysises that seem to be part and parcel of examining the war on drugs.  People only apply their criteria to one case, say legalization, but not to the alternative(s)    Drugs are sold in both legalized and prohibitionary jurisdictions: your argument therefore has no relevance.  The only thing we can gather from this irrational argument (other than the delusion that drugs aren't sold if they are prohibited) is that you somehow regard illegal, clandestine, drug production and sale, along with all the overdoses, poisonings, and dirty products, somehow superior to lawful, regulated commerce.  What a strange view



Quote:

It also happens to be a matter of degree, and I think there should be a sliding scale in terms of the availability of drugs.  Plainly put




So, yeah: prohibiton :thumbup:  You can speak of sliding scales all you want, but this continues the stupid presumption that you can stop people from selling the drugs you seem to arbitrarily disfavor.  Reality has, fortunately, utterly destroyed any notion that this is possible.

How exactly do you enact this 'sliding scale': continuing the jailings, the asset seizure, and the terrible penalties enacted on someone who's not harmed anyone?  yeah, great plan.  If you prohibit something, you must apply some penalty to those who break the prohibition, and this is a large part of the problem, as well as the creation of the illegal gangs who provide what you've decided to not allow on apparently arbitrary grounds.


Quote:

, I don't think heroin should not be as readily available as cannabis.  I do think doctors should be able to prescribe maintenance doses to addicts.  Perhaps it should even be available through mail order.  But I would hesitate to allow it to be sold in supermarkets. 

There may be an argument to be made in favor of that, and perhaps supermarkets would choose not to sell it anyway, but I'd be a bit hesitant to go forward with a full-fledged "anything goes" attitude.




Well, if your hesitant, then shit... lock em all up, take their assets, certainly :rolleyes:

What you've said is not at all an argument: just a statement of preference.  Marijuana causes far more harm than heroin, and far more addictions. Moreover, your suggestion of decriinalization leaves the tremendous drain on our society that is the economic and financial cost of the war on drugs and continues the criminal syndicates causing violence and harm.  Finally, you still apparently support prohibition and jailing, asset seizure, as you don't want them in supermarkets- as if that's any of your buisness what some guy wants to sell in his store.  What exactly are you going to do to keep the 'naughty substances' out of supermarkets?  Yeah, same things as occurs now in prohibition: its immoral




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