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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14527029 - 05/28/11 04:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

zeitgeist changed my life! Incredible stuff that man has to say. I highly recommend it.


--------------------
May you be filled with loving kindness.
May you be well.
May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.



AMU Q&A

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Offlinemongo lloyd
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14527032 - 05/28/11 04:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Shit hit the fan is what happens. Mr T becomes fonzie, fonzie beomes george w bush, who in turn becomesa sea slug.


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OfflineViveka
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14527078 - 05/28/11 05:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If you look at the origin of this term, "quantum entanglement", you may have a better chance of reaching some sort of useful thought, otherwise - and I'm going out on a limb here since mathematically I know jack shit about theoretical physics - you're playing pocket pool with a handful of words.  The only reason I'm chiming in is because I was reviewing some Robert Anton Wilson footage recently and it caused me to revisit the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment so that for the first time it actually makes quite a bit of sense to me.

This term/idea you're throwing around, "quantum entanglement", was coined by Schroedinger early on - Verschränkung - when the Copenhagen interpretation was the working model.  Basically, Schrödinger's point was that there are major problems with using a model of reality, in this case the Copenhagen interpretion of quantum mechanics, to describe reality.  No amount of maths or models or psi-function experiments can fully account for or describe the reality that there is a cat inside of a box and it's either alive or dead, regardless of what is observed; no one, even the theoretical physicist, really doubts this.  That was Schroedinger's point.  Of course, even from a layman's perspective, I see that there are problem's with Schrödinger's thought experiment since in it he equates a particle with a complex system - the cat, but this doesn't diminish the point any and the absurdity reinforces the point. 

And just as we know that classical descriptions and physics  apparently do not apply to subatomic particles, the systems we use and are constantly developing to describe subatomic particles are not adequate to describe observable reality.  Everything in quantum mechanics is a map and though certain things can be demonstrated experimentally, it all remains in the realm of descriptions at this point.  The details of the map get fleshed out and revised as we feel around for details in the dark(science).  A term that originated from criticism of the shortcomings of quantum mechanics, your "quantum entanglement", was embraced later on as a function of the system.  And now it describes the theoretical possibilities of superposition or non-locality.  Do you see the irony here or is it just me?

So what what are you actually trying to determine?  From a mathematical perspective I have no idea but my question is - why do you give a fuck?  Quantum entanglement is the ultimate non-classical phenomenon, and your quantum pair with black hole interference scenario is entirely in the realm of experimental mathematics.  So are you trying to solve a math problem or what?

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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: Viveka]
    #14527138 - 05/28/11 05:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I am trying to solve a question that has been in my head for some time and never found anyone who was able to answer it. It's just curiosity I guess. If quantum entanglement and black holes are naturally occurring phenomenon then what happens to the entanglement when one of the pair is taken in by a black hole?


--------------------
May you be filled with loving kindness.
May you be well.
May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.



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OfflineViveka
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14527295 - 05/28/11 05:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quantum entanglement is not a naturally occurring phenomenon.  It is a concept describing the theoretical possibilities that arise from a quantum superposition of particle states.  The map is not the territory.

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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: Viveka]
    #14527329 - 05/28/11 05:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

okay thank you.


--------------------
May you be filled with loving kindness.
May you be well.
May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.



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OfflineViveka
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14527458 - 05/28/11 06:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

But hey, don't take my word for it.  I know next to nothing.  A superposition of nothing.  Non-local nothing.

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OfflineViveka
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14527467 - 05/28/11 06:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Really like your albums by the way...

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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: Viveka]
    #14527480 - 05/28/11 06:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Viveka said:
Really like your albums by the way...




which one is your favorite?


--------------------
May you be filled with loving kindness.
May you be well.
May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.



AMU Q&A

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OfflineViveka
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14527491 - 05/28/11 06:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

in classical terms: Aenima

in quantum terms: Aenima/MerDeNoms/Lateralus

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OfflineCherk
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: sunset_mission]
    #14527545 - 05/28/11 06:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

sunset_mission said:
Quote:

Questioner: I sometimes have difficulty in getting a foothold into what I am looking for. I am trying to seek out the metaphysical principles, you might say, behind our physical illusion.

Could you give me an example of the amount of gravity in the third density conditions at the surface of the planet Venus? Would it be greater or less than Earth’s?

Ra: I am Ra. The gravity, shall we say, the attractive force which we also describe as the pressing outward force towards the Creator is greater spiritually upon the entity you call Venus due to the greater degree of success, shall we say, at seeking the Creator.

This point only becomes important when you consider that when all of creation in its infinity has reached a spiritual gravitational mass of sufficient nature, the entire creation infinitely coalesces; the light seeking and finding its source and thusly ending the creation and beginning a new creation much as you consider the black hole, as you call it, with its conditions of infinitely great mass at the zero point from which no light may be seen as it has been absorbed.

Questioner: Then the black hole would be a point at which the environmental material has succeeded in uniting with unity or with the Creator? Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. The black hole which manifests third density is the physical complex manifestation of this spiritual or metaphysical state. This is correct.

Questioner: I thought that I would make a statement and let you correct it. I’m trying to make a simple model of the portion of the universe that we find ourselves in. Starting with the sub-Logos, our sun, we have white light emanating from this which is made up of the frequencies ranging from the red to the violet. I am assuming that this white light then contains the experiences through all of the densities and as we go into the eighth density we go into a black hole which becomes, on the other side, another Logos or sun and starts another octave of experience. Can you comment on this part of my statement?
Ra: I am Ra. We can comment upon this statement to an extent. The concept of the white light of the sub-Logos being prismatically separated and later, at the final chapter, being absorbed again is basically correct. However, there are subtleties involved which are more than semantic.

The white light which emanates and forms the articulated sub-Logos has its beginning in what may be metaphysically seen as darkness. The light comes into that darkness and transfigures it, causing the chaos to organize and become reflective or radiant. Thus the dimensions come into being.

Conversely, the blackness of the black hole, metaphysically speaking, is a concentration of white light being systematically absorbed once again into the One Creator. Finally, this absorption into the One Creator continues until all the infinity of creations have attained sufficient spiritual mass in order that all form once again the great central sun, if you would so imagine it, of the intelligent infinity awaiting potentiation by free will. Thus the transition of the octave is a process which may be seen to enter into timelessness of unimaginable nature. To attempt to measure it by your time measures would be useless.

Therefore, the concept of moving through the black hole of the ultimate spiritual gravity well and coming immediately into the next octave misses the subconcept or corollary of the portion of this process which is timeless.





:ghandi::aum::fonz:




im gonna have to ask you to take ghandi out of your post


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Offlinesunset_mission
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: Cherk]
    #14528267 - 05/28/11 09:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

cherokee said:
Quote:

sunset_mission said:
Quote:

Questioner: I sometimes have difficulty in getting a foothold into what I am looking for. I am trying to seek out the metaphysical principles, you might say, behind our physical illusion.

Could you give me an example of the amount of gravity in the third density conditions at the surface of the planet Venus? Would it be greater or less than Earth’s?

Ra: I am Ra. The gravity, shall we say, the attractive force which we also describe as the pressing outward force towards the Creator is greater spiritually upon the entity you call Venus due to the greater degree of success, shall we say, at seeking the Creator.

This point only becomes important when you consider that when all of creation in its infinity has reached a spiritual gravitational mass of sufficient nature, the entire creation infinitely coalesces; the light seeking and finding its source and thusly ending the creation and beginning a new creation much as you consider the black hole, as you call it, with its conditions of infinitely great mass at the zero point from which no light may be seen as it has been absorbed.

Questioner: Then the black hole would be a point at which the environmental material has succeeded in uniting with unity or with the Creator? Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. The black hole which manifests third density is the physical complex manifestation of this spiritual or metaphysical state. This is correct.

Questioner: I thought that I would make a statement and let you correct it. I’m trying to make a simple model of the portion of the universe that we find ourselves in. Starting with the sub-Logos, our sun, we have white light emanating from this which is made up of the frequencies ranging from the red to the violet. I am assuming that this white light then contains the experiences through all of the densities and as we go into the eighth density we go into a black hole which becomes, on the other side, another Logos or sun and starts another octave of experience. Can you comment on this part of my statement?
Ra: I am Ra. We can comment upon this statement to an extent. The concept of the white light of the sub-Logos being prismatically separated and later, at the final chapter, being absorbed again is basically correct. However, there are subtleties involved which are more than semantic.

The white light which emanates and forms the articulated sub-Logos has its beginning in what may be metaphysically seen as darkness. The light comes into that darkness and transfigures it, causing the chaos to organize and become reflective or radiant. Thus the dimensions come into being.

Conversely, the blackness of the black hole, metaphysically speaking, is a concentration of white light being systematically absorbed once again into the One Creator. Finally, this absorption into the One Creator continues until all the infinity of creations have attained sufficient spiritual mass in order that all form once again the great central sun, if you would so imagine it, of the intelligent infinity awaiting potentiation by free will. Thus the transition of the octave is a process which may be seen to enter into timelessness of unimaginable nature. To attempt to measure it by your time measures would be useless.

Therefore, the concept of moving through the black hole of the ultimate spiritual gravity well and coming immediately into the next octave misses the subconcept or corollary of the portion of this process which is timeless.





:ghandi::aum::fonz:




im gonna have to ask you to take ghandi out of your post




nawwww

as ghandi too is down

with the Oneness of All

:ghandi::aum::yinyang2:

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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: willowmp]
    #14528321 - 05/28/11 09:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

willowmp said:
I'm taking a shot in the dark here, but is this where a particle falls into a black hole while an antiparticle falls out of it?


Basically the particle is made up for by the antiparticle which falls from the black hole, and thus matter was not lost.


It's taken from the theory where particles and antiparticles are all springing into existence very briefly and then clashing and neutralizing each other.

Off topic:
I personally feel as though the theory in which matter is sucked into a black hole and deposited into a different dimension by Hawking is fairly solid. Although the projection theory by whoever is pretty nice as well.

A good trippy one is the infinite space x chance probability theory, where if space is infinite, any situation which involves chance (practically every situation), must occur although spread out very far.

I am both living and dying and being born every minute of my existence.




otherwise known as hawking radiation. i think its still a theory, but yes technically the theory states that space is nat truly empty but there are particle.antiparticle pairs that come into existence and anhiliate eachother almost instantaneously, but if one were do appear inside the event horizon and another outside the event horizon the one outside would escape as radiation into space


what OP is talking about might be different, it might be what happens if someone falls into a black hole. The person on the outside would see the person fall infinitely slowly into the hole while the person  falling into the whole would see herself falling away at a normal speed.

something like that, its because the person inside would be moving much more slowly through time compared to the observer outside the event horizon

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14529147 - 05/29/11 01:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

maynardjameskeenan said:
I am trying to solve a question that has been in my head for some time and never found anyone who was able to answer it. It's just curiosity I guess. If quantum entanglement and black holes are naturally occurring phenomenon then what happens to the entanglement when one of the pair is taken in by a black hole?




Why should an entangled particle act any different from a non-entangled particle upon entering the black hole?

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Offlinewillowmp
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14529191 - 05/29/11 02:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

maynardjameskeenan said:
I don't believe that Stephen Hawking said that they were deposited into a different dimension, as I understand black holes they are like a 2 dimensional lens of our multidimensional universe and so is the edge of space. The event horizon is just the surface of where our 2 plans exists together.

Black holes given enough time will expel all of there particles even if it gives off 1 particle every 100 million years. In that way no quantum information is ever lost or created.
But if one of them is frozen from our dimension is the entanglement broken until the particle is given off by the black hole. I think particles and anti-particles are the ones adjoined by entanglement. lol, sorry I kinda high I hope you all can understand what I am trying to convey  :grin:



I separated these two statements to illustrate what I was saying. The first statement about the 2D lens is a theory created by Hawking's rival, although after googling I can't figure out his name.

The second piece is unconnected, from what I remember. This would be more the realm of Hawking radiation/other radiative theories, you were correct the particle/antiparticle stuff is Hawking radiation.

Yes, Hawking said that he was wrong, but that was his theory involving black holes simply disappearing. The issue was if a black hole were to simply vanish, huge amounts of mass is also vanishing. As a result science and cause/effect become broken and we can no longer know anything without a doubt (ex. our memories) due to data loss. I also remember that he is now thinking over a theory in which black holes essentially are transporting the matter into other dimensions in which black holes do not exist. Thus preserving the data.


:lol: Theoretical physics is a complicated yet interesting bitch.


--------------------
"Fuck it too much Im outta wittbhjkhbhkjsrglhkrgl g I DEE JEUD."
-Because it made sense on xanax and booze...

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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14529253 - 05/29/11 02:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Is Kingtard better than Peasant Genius?


--------------------

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OfflineCherk
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #14529260 - 05/29/11 02:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

this thread is like when a cop makes you follow his fingers and then he splits them and goes in opposite directions


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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OfflineCherk
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #14529262 - 05/29/11 02:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Is Kingtard better than Peasant Genius?





i want to be kingtard 

hey lets sell art and get rich quick


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Offlinesunset_mission
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Re: question I would love to have awnsered for me. [Re: Cherk]
    #14530852 - 05/29/11 01:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

cherokee said:
Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Is Kingtard better than Peasant Genius?





i want to be kingtard 

hey lets sell art and get rich quick




NO

only I have been chosen to fully merge with his unbroliness grand poobah :kingtard:

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