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OfflineNakor420
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Toe_Jam]
    #18694666 - 08/12/13 08:36 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Toe_Jam said:
Quote:

Nakor420 said:
Quote:

Toe_Jam said:
Quote:

Nakor420 said:

Best cube there is....



Yeah, that's definitely a matter of opinion....




Not really. A cube is a cube except for PE.... it's special



It may be special in that it is a mutant, I don't see how that makes it the best cube indisputably.

PE is the current fad and an interestingly shaped mutant, no more no less.

And there can never be a difinitive "best" anyway, because as I said, it is entirely a matter of opinion.

For the sake of argument, let's say that in my opinion, GT is best. How can you prove me wrong? It's my opinion.

And actually, PE is a very weak spore producer, and as you like to point out, different from other cubes and so, more difficult to grow.

Doesn't sound better to me.




I've seen a LOT of experience PE growers say they are about twice as potent as normal cubes. Are you debating that?


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InvisibleToe_Jam
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Nakor420]
    #18694669 - 08/12/13 08:38 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, that has never been proven. :shrug:

Bioassay is not proof. And potent = better is not necesarily the case even if it was completely proven. If it is to you, grow azures, they are "better" than any cube by this logic.


--------------------
God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent

March 1984


A pleasing land of drowsy head it was,
Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye,
And of gay castles in the clouds that pass,
For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence


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OfflineNakor420
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Toe_Jam]
    #18694675 - 08/12/13 08:41 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Toe_Jam said:
Yes, that had never been proven. :shrug:

Bioassay is not proof. And potent = better is not necesarily the case even if it was completely proven. If it is, grow azures, they are "better" than any cube by this logic.




If it's proven that PE's are more potent...then that very MUCH makes them the best cube....sorry but what's the point of intentionally growing weaker fruits if you are doing it for the purpose of eating them? Azurs ARE better...they are the most potent shroom we know of. Tell me....what criteria for YOU makes a species better than another? Cause for me it's potency potency potency


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Edited by Nakor420 (08/12/13 08:41 AM)


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Offlineghiajake
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Nakor420]
    #18694689 - 08/12/13 08:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Guess I'll join in. IMO, what makes any one cube "better" than another should be graded on more than just potency. It should be graded on ease of cultivation, colonization time, contaminate resistance, consistent and prolific flushes, and then potency. If your slightly more potent PEs produce way less fruits and weight than my slightly less potent Cambodians (best fruiter I've had to date) then that makes the Cambodians "better". Potency isn't everything. If it was, no one would grow cubes.


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OfflineNakor420
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: ghiajake]
    #18694700 - 08/12/13 08:56 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ghiajake said:
Guess I'll join in. IMO, what makes any one cube "better" than another should be graded on more than just potency. It should be graded on ease of cultivation, colonization time, contaminate resistance, consistent and prolific flushes, and then potency. If your slightly more potent PEs produce way less fruits and weight than my slightly less potent Cambodians (best fruiter I've had to date) then that makes the Cambodians "better". Potency isn't everything. If it was, no one would grow cubes.




Yes they would..and besides...what if you got a set of genetics that had all those great attributes, but pumped out weak ass fruit? I would rather eat a 1/2 eighth of something that's going to send me to a parallel universe than a full 8th of not so great fruit that's going to give me a lvl 2 or something.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Nakor420]
    #18694735 - 08/12/13 09:14 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Toe Jam, you keep saying, "That is a matter of opinion" like it is a bad thing.

Someone came into this thread and asked, "What are your thoughts on the PE strains?"

That person was asking for opinions.

If the person had come in asking, "Is there any conclusive scientific data proving one cube to be more potent than all the rest?" They likely would have received a different answer.

I have done a lot of research on cube strains, and for the most part, it is impossible to determine if a strain is more potent. You would need to do hundreds of unique grows per strain and test them all. Due to cost and legality issues, this has not yet been done to a satisfying degree.

If Azures were as cheap, quick and easy to grow discreetly as cubes are, more people would grow them. But to most cultivators, potency is a myth. If you have unlimited access to cubes, you can simply eat more if you want more intensity.

PE is unique among cubes because it is much thicker than average and slightly slower growing, it is also a mutant. These factors may influence its potency. It is also likely that their odd looks simply effect the mindset of a tripper for the better, a cube that looks special may just seem special, and that factor alone can have a huge impact. Mutant shrooms do frequently tend to, at the very least, seem more potent to the average tripper. I say this after studying thousands upon thousands of threads over a decade.

With tripping, mindset and setting are as important as potency, when it comes to intensity of a trip, so the placebo effect alone can literally make a HUGE difference. This is why the potency issue is so debatable without hard science to back it up. People will have an amazing trip on a certain strain, convince themselves the strain is extra potent, and continue to have amazing trips on that strain even though it may just be an average cube.

I see nothing wrong with people offering their opinions, especially when asked for them. Opinions and experience is really all we have on this subject.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleToe_Jam
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: ghiajake]
    #18694736 - 08/12/13 09:15 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I'll reiterate, PE has never been proven to be more potent, please show some proof. Gas spectrometry would be fine :thumbup:. The effects of a trip are largely derived from current mood and atmosphere, not only the amount of chemical in your body. Also, PE have more dense fruits, which may lead one to believe they are eating less when weight for weight it would be the same amount as other cubes.

600 years ago people KNEW the world was flat. 10 years ago, people KNEW you had to incubate myc in total darkness at 86 degrees. Since then these things have been disproven. As I said before, PE is a highly marketable fad, and people tend to repeat what other people say, regardless if they actually know or not. If you go into an experience thinking you will trip balls much harder than normal, you probably will. I see people in mushroom hunting and ID all the time who think they are tripping off inactive mushrooms. Mind over matter.

Imagine what we will "know" tomorrow. Also, you might consider that PE is a weak spore producer and difficult grower, thus it's popularity leads to increased syringe sales for vendors. I smell a scam.

Quote:

ghiajake said:
Guess I'll join in. IMO, what makes any one cube "better" than another should be graded on more than just potency. It should be graded on ease of cultivation, colonization time, contaminate resistance, consistent and prolific flushes, and then potency. If your slightly more potent PEs produce way less fruits and weight than my slightly less potent Cambodians (best fruiter I've had to date) then that makes the Cambodians "better". Potency isn't everything. If it was, no one would grow cubes.



Definitely jake.


--------------------
God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent

March 1984


A pleasing land of drowsy head it was,
Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye,
And of gay castles in the clouds that pass,
For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence


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InvisibleToe_Jam
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Rose]
    #18694739 - 08/12/13 09:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:

I see nothing wrong with people offering their opinions, especially when asked for them. Opinions and experience is really all we have on this subject.



You are absolutely correct, I just don't like when people pass of opinion as fact. That's called misinformation.

:themoreyouknow:


--------------------
God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent

March 1984


A pleasing land of drowsy head it was,
Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye,
And of gay castles in the clouds that pass,
For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Toe_Jam]
    #18694753 - 08/12/13 09:23 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I can't believe we both made almost exactly the same post at the same time.

PE has though, historically been viewed as extra potent. The legend of its potency is not a new fad. If vendors wanted to make a popular cube, they likely would have marketed one that was easier to get spores from. That alone makes me suspect PE's potency myth to be something more special than just marketing. Many vendors, historically, have not been able to keep PE in stock.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlineghiajake
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Rose]
    #18694848 - 08/12/13 09:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Not having grown PE yet (have PEU on its way) I still would venture to say that any other cube grown outdoors (like these guys, ) where temps are cooler and force the fruits to grow slower and more dense would have the same effect as these mutants do. Just look at the bruising on this guy, . This was just from washing it of and handling it to cut the cap of for printing. These outdoor guys all bruised like that. They were grown in high 70's during the day and high 50's at night. Pretty potent!


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InvisibleToe_Jam
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: ghiajake]
    #18694955 - 08/12/13 10:37 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Good point again jake, and wow did those suckers bruise blue! "Almost black" like Ovoids!


--------------------
God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent

March 1984


A pleasing land of drowsy head it was,
Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye,
And of gay castles in the clouds that pass,
For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence


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Offlineghiajake
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Toe_Jam]
    #18694967 - 08/12/13 10:41 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Hey TJ, you check out my Ovoid thread yet? Could use some of your "Pearls of Wisdom" over there.


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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Farmerwhite]
    #18694983 - 08/12/13 10:44 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Farmerwhite said:
Are the P.E. stains worth growing? What's your favorite one? Who is the best vendor of P.E.?




I just tried my first PE after growing 3 types of normal cubes.

The experience was totally different. It took a lot longer to hit me and worked really well with under 20 grams wet.

They are definitely worth growing for personal use IMO. Even though they can take longer and produce a little less I preferred them to my Blue Meanies and Pink Buffaloes


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InvisibleToe_Jam
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Rose]
    #18695222 - 08/12/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:


If vendors wanted to make a popular cube, they likely would have marketed one that was easier to get spores from.





I was thinking along these lines: vendor A knows how to consistenly produce PE. He knows people will love it and desire for it's mutant properties but also that it would have a higher failure rate among the masses. Vendor A also realises that few spores can be obtained from PE (usually). So how can vendor A make up for this deficiency (i.e. have people still desire to grow it when they fail/ can't obtain prints)? Circulate the myth of extreme potency, knowing how subjective the experience is, that the effect would seem to be produced and he would probably never be able to be proven wrong.

Now you have people who can't produce a second (or maybe even a first) generation of mushrooms they really desire. They come back to vendor A to try it again.

Perhaps they always run out of stock because they are selling so many, i.e. the scam is working.

:shrug:

Sounds logical to me, I mean I could be wrong, I am the :paranoid: type.

I do realise people are much more able to obtain spores via swabs now, but that is a relatively recent event in PE history.


--------------------
God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent

March 1984


A pleasing land of drowsy head it was,
Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye,
And of gay castles in the clouds that pass,
For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Toe_Jam]
    #18695506 - 08/12/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PE is the current fad and an interestingly shaped mutant, no more no less.




:okthatsfunny:

Quote:

Now you have people who can't produce a second (or maybe even a first) generation of mushrooms they really desire. They come back to vendor A to try it again.




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18504909/page/1

No, seriously, you're absolutely right.  Getting a syringe from SW both for PEU and now PE has been just plain sad, considering how little I ever spend on spores.  And the fact that they both worked a charm is nothing less than criminal.  I rue the day I ever tried to cultivate PE, since it produced both more biomass and greater potency than anything else I've done with the same techniques, and the trips were nothing short of mind boggling.  Nothing there to recommend it at all. And those swabs I made were damned expensive as well.  Seriously, a fail all around. :tongue2:

:peace:PS

PS hey man, I'm just yanking your chain here... I trust my bioassays implicitly, given the amount of time I spend :trippnballs: they're either in it or outta here. :thumbup:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
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InvisibleToe_Jam
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18695953 - 08/12/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You got any of those swabs left?

:aweohyou:


--------------------
God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent

March 1984


A pleasing land of drowsy head it was,
Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye,
And of gay castles in the clouds that pass,
For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Toe_Jam]
    #18696837 - 08/12/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Toe_Jam said:
PE is the current fad and an interestingly shaped mutant, no more no less.




LOL WUT

this guy.......


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AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Toe_Jam]
    #18697269 - 08/12/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I've got one left over, maybe somebody didn't followup?  Y'all want it, PM me and it's yours... :thumbup:

BTW those swabs came from the very largest fruits, and they were the only ones to make spores. :what2:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflineFarmerwhite
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18698004 - 08/13/13 12:02 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

So summing all this up would you say that it is on average a slower MS colonizer?


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I'm here to learn from the best

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OfflineFarmerwhite
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Farmerwhite]
    #18698009 - 08/13/13 12:04 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Oh and what's everyone's take on A.P.E.?


--------------------
I'm here to learn from the best

Objects only have meaning that you put upon them




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