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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
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Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please 4
#14525669 - 05/28/11 10:24 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Considering that nobody was reading through hundreds of pages of the old strain thread any more, I moved it to the archives, and now give you guys a blank page to start over. Be nice and have fun. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: RogerRabbit] 2
#14525774 - 05/28/11 10:50 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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can delete this is space is needed.
Edited by k00laid (05/28/11 12:39 PM)
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: k00laid] 4
#14525776 - 05/28/11 10:50 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Welcome to myCERVANTES Race/Variety/Strain Journal. This is where we discuss 'Strains'.
Please read any pertinent information in these first THREE posts before asking about any cube 'Strain'.
If you have already read the first three posts of this thread, start posting. If not, read on.
If you have anything factual to add, see something that is incorrect or missing entirely, post it.
Introduction: 99% of your race/strain questions should be answerd in the first three posts of this thread[. Please read all three before posting any 'Strain' related discussion in my journal. If you wish to discuss, or update the information concerning a specific race/'strain' or topic, scroll down to the other posts in this thread and click on a particular cube or topic's name.
Please send me a PM if I need to add any new threads or profiles for missing cubensis races (strains).
If you want quality spores at a fair price, SUPPORT OUR SHROOMERY SPONSERS!
So... without further ado... welcome to Cervantes' Race (Strain) Journal!
Thanks, Cervantes
Now, start reading:
Why 'Race', 'Variety 'and 'Subvariety' are Often More Accurate Terms Than 'Strain': When discussing different types of cubes in general, let's use the words 'Race' or 'Variety' instead of the word 'Strain'. Cubes, like humans, come from all over the world... and like humans, there can be some variety from one cube patch to another. It is time for some racial tension here in the world of cubes. Most cubes are named after the place where their original wild spore specimen was discovered... so Race is a logical (if imperfect) word to use when describing these different types of cubes. At the very least, it is more accurate and far less confusing than the word 'Strain'.
In this thread, the word 'Strain' in quotation marks means something different than the word Strain without quotation marks. The word Strain refers to living dikaryotic mycelial tissue, the word 'Strain' refers to commercial spores.
The fungus known as Psilocibe Cubensis is a unique mushroom SPECIES. Shiitake is a unique mushroom species. Azures are their own species. Amanitas are a species... etc. It would be almost impossible and incredibly expensive to use two different fungus species and create a hybrid of the two. It'd be like successfully mating a human with a gorilla. However, a Caucasian human can effectively mate with an Asian human. Similarly, spores from one cube race can mate (or be mated) successfully with the spores of other cubensis races.
In the world of mycology, every single time a single spore's mycelium mates with another's to become dikaryotic, a unique Strain (no quotation marks) is created. Like baby humans, living cube Strains are each unique, and they tend to resemble their 'parents'. Each single viable spore print can produce thousands if not millions of unique strains. Most of these strains will produce mushrooms that look remarkably like the mushroom that produced the print from which they came.
The term 'Strain' is often used to describe the type of spores on a spore print or in a syringe filled with spores. When used in this context, the word 'Strain' is simply NOT ACCURATE (hence the 'Quotation marks'). It is a word used by vendors (who cater to hippies) in order to make magic shroom spores sound like different strains of marijuana. It is a word that suggests cubes are more varied from 'Strain' to 'Strain' than they actually are.
Marijuana is a plant, cubes are a fungus. Cubes come from SPORES, marijuana comes from SEEDS. Cubes breathe OXYGEN and produce CO2 as a byproduct (like animals). Marijuana, like all plants, breathes CO2 and produces OXYGEN.
The misuse of the word 'Strain' is widespread, and only encourages vendors to sell as many different 'Strains' as possible in spite of their obvious similarities. When people talk of commercial cube 'Strains' this leads to confusion and misinformation. Vendors (especially the shady ones) thrive on this misinformation.
An African, an Asian and a Caucasian are all undeniably human but there are obvious differences between each race. Even on a smaller scale... every single town (and sometimes neighborhood) in Great Britain features a slightly different dialect... and yet, there is still room for great diversity from one person to another in said towns... even though, when compared to a different race, most Brits tend to look alike.
Still, the world of genetics is often a funny thing, and sometimes spores will produce some surprisingly unique and unexpected strains... strains displaying recessive genetic traits and mutations that nobody could predict... again, just like humans.
These unique cubes can be selectively bred until these unique traits become common, even via multispore inoculation. This new, unique cube may be marketed as a new 'Strain' but it is really just a unique 'Variety' of cubensis spawned from its original race. Still, many vendors market each unique variety as a new 'Strain'. In general, every single commercially available cubensis 'RACE', is actually a domesticated VARIETY of the original specimen. Domesticated cubes contain intentionally limited genetics in order to increase the likelyhood of achieving the desired results, sort of like dog domestication and subsequent breeding.
Over time and multiple generations (spore to fruit to spore) a cubensis Variety can become genetically limited by inbreeding. This means results from multispore inoculation can become more consistent, and the likelihood of accidentally stumbling upon unique traits reduces. If a commercial cube's genetics become too limited, the inbreeding can produce undesired effects. In general, when it comes to life, too much inbreeding will eventually lead to problems.
Annother classification for different types of cubes is the 'Sub-variety'. For example, by using spores from each variety of cube, Workman crossed PF Albino (Probably a variety of the Matias Romero race) with Penis Envy (Probably a variety of an Amazonian or Columbian race) and produced the Albino Penis Envy. Albino Penis Envy is both a sub-variety of PF Albino and Penis Envy.
Since all this 'Variety' and 'Sub-Variety' talk can get very confusing, go ahead and use 'Race' if you prefer, even though it is not entirely accurate. It sure beats saying 'Strain'. There are racial differences between mushrooms, often due to natural selection based upon where they first grew... and sometimes varietal differences due to unnatural selection performed by mycologists.
Finally, there are different 'Brands' of cubes. A Sporeworks Brand syringe full of Penis Envy spores may have a slightly different ethnic diversity than a Ralphster Brand or Hawk's Eye Brand syringe of the same cube.
All of that said, vendors use the term 'Strain'... and n00bs learn the term from vendors. This incorrect term is SO widespread, it is even used in the same way by Paul Stamets. I'd love to use the proper terminology, and will do so from now on... but this will be an uphill battle. Most people recognize the incorrect term, and not the correct ones.
It seems the misuse of the word 'Strain' is only widespread in the world of magic mushrooms, but not in the rest of the mycological world. The fact that so many magic mycologists use incorrect terminology, further reduces our credibility in larger mycological circles. The misuse of this simple word can make our work seem illegitimate in the eyes of science.
The Truth About Different Types of Cubes: Most cubes look alike. All cubes grow in the same conditions. The differences between cube races, varieties or 'Strains' are, more often than not, minute. Some races are known for fast colonization, or large fruits... even high potency. BUT... these 'Facts' are often just vendor hype. Your results will most likely vary.
The Truth About Cube Potency: If you want something that is very potent, you should probably try a different species and avoid cubes all together... either that, or eat more cubes. Agar will potentially allow you to select a more potent substrain. A few cube races and varieties are reported as being more potent than others... but there is no scientific evidence to strengthen the potency argument. Everybody wants the answer to this question... but all we have is opinion. Most people agree there are differences in potency from one type of cubensis to another... but they seldom agree on which cube is the most (or least) potent.
The Truth About The Fastest Growing Cubes: Some cube races and varieties are known to grow at a faster or slower rate, on average, than others. There is evidence which suggests the fastest cubensis races produce the smallest shrooms and the slower races and varieties produce the most bulky fungus. Ultimately it all seems to even out in the end (with a few exceptions). Also, the slow cubes more frequently display unique macroscopic characteristics (in other words, they are more likely to look noticeably different from other races) while the fast ones usually look like average (or smaller than average) cubes. It tends to take more time to grow a large or unique cube. If you are looking for a cube which produces a LOT of quick bulk, you may be looking for a long time... and you'd better work with agar.
The Truth About Bulk: Race, variety or 'Strain' has little to do with bulk. With some work, any viable cube print should produce good flushes. Good isolation on agar, and good fruiting conditions are the only proven ways to get consistently bulky flushes. There are no quick and easy solutions. If you want bulk, first you are going to need diligent patience.
The Truth About Selecting Your Spores: The thing that distinguishes most races, varieties or 'strains' is where they originated and who collected the first specimen. If you are interested in Tasmania, try some Tasmanian spores. If you like the story of how SG30 was resurrected by Shdwstr, try SG30. If you think Penis Envy looks fun, try it. They are all cubes. Pick one that interests you, and see if you like working with it.
The Truth About Multispore vs. Strain Isolation: Agar allows you to work specifically with your spores but it costs more money and takes much more time. However, proper agar work will give you consistency from one grow to the next.
Multispore inoculation is a turkey shoot. You never know what you are going to get. Mother nature is unpredictable. If you intend to use multispore, it is suggested you work with a classic and/or popular cube variety. Cubes that have been popular for 10 or more years tend to be popular for a reason, and their genetics have probably been limited (in a good way) by being selectively bred over and over again... generation after generation. You are more likely to see consistent results via multispore, if you use a proven race.
*Special thanks to Livingston, apoonanor and george castanza.
*Taken from the link below
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
Edited by k00laid (05/28/11 12:40 PM)
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higgledy-piggledy
Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 966
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: RogerRabbit] 2
#14526244 - 05/28/11 12:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Considering that nobody was reading through hundreds of pages of the old strain thread any more, I moved it to the archives, and now give you guys a blank page to start over. Be nice and have fun. RR

great idea.
i hope many beginning growers will cast a glance at the first few posts.
so i want to contribute to help unexperienced people to learn to help themselves,
which is a significant aspect of acquiring adulthood, not only in mush cult, but in life.
we can save a lot of valuable server space for the real interesting posts by first using the search engine,
which provides a huge amount of info and answers to questions like 'am i good?', 'did i fuck up?' and so on.
so lets avoid these constantly recurring questions, threads and posts by vivid use of the search engine.

ok, long story short, let the strain discussion begin.
but always remember: a cube is a cube...!
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Base Icks



Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: higgledy-piggledy] 2
#14532048 - 05/29/11 06:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Why not just post a link here for the original strain thread? Here's the original link. At 144 pages (2,888 posts) there is a lot of info. Most if its in the fist post really. Still lots of info in that thread. If you want to find something in particular, use the search box at the bottom of that thread to search posts made in that thread only. The search box is on the bottom of every thread FYI.
PS There's lots of flaming, arguing etc etc. All in all though its a helpful thread. If nothing else read the first post, and if you want to read about a certain race(strain) search for it in that thread.
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Base Icks] 3
#14532285 - 05/29/11 06:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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original is in my sig.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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OoBYCoO
One grow down, a million to go!!



Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 8,120
Loc: USA
Last seen: 10 years, 28 days
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Base Icks] 2
#14533508 - 05/29/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Base Icks said: Why not just post a link here for the original strain thread? Here's the original link. At 144 pages (2,888 posts) there is a lot of info. Most if its in the fist post really. Still lots of info in that thread. If you want to find something in particular, use the search box at the bottom of that thread to search posts made in that thread only. The search box is on the bottom of every thread FYI.
PS There's lots of flaming, arguing etc etc. All in all though its a helpful thread. If nothing else read the first post, and if you want to read about a certain race(strain) search for it in that thread.
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Javadog
Continuing along



Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: OoBYCoO] 2
#14537255 - 05/30/11 06:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes Myco-tek.org
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CaptainAhab


Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 1,875
Last seen: 6 years, 23 days
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Javadog] 2
#14539063 - 05/31/11 02:38 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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What's with all the pink buffalo grows, lately?
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madis503
psühhonaut


Registered: 07/29/09
Posts: 466
Loc:
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: CaptainAhab] 2
#14550679 - 06/02/11 12:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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wot??? do i understand right that if i mix spores from different races together i can grow shrooms that look like mix of these two races?
--------------------
 Psy&Goa
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Base Icks



Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: madis503] 2
#14551148 - 06/02/11 02:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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OoBYCoO
One grow down, a million to go!!



Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 8,120
Loc: USA
Last seen: 10 years, 28 days
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Base Icks] 2
#14552051 - 06/02/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Base Icks said:

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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: madis503] 2
#14552199 - 06/02/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
madis503 said: wot??? do i understand right that if i mix spores from different races together i can grow shrooms that look like mix of these two races?
mix cubes get cubes.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest



Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
Loc: HTTP 404 Not Found
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: madis503] 2
#14553080 - 06/02/11 10:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
madis503 said: wot??? do i understand right that if i mix spores from different races together i can grow shrooms that look like mix of these two races?
I never understood why this is so hard to understand.....
If you take a spore print of say Pink Buffalo, and yet another of Golden Teacher, and yet one more of a Malabar. Present these prints and a proper description to someone who can do a proper identification. They are only going to tell you one thing,that you have found samples of P. Cubensis.
Strains are nothing more than a baseline set of dominant genetics, of the same species of mushroom. But they are all still Psilocybe Cubensis. Doesnt matter how many different sets of genetics you mix, you still get cubes. Maybe those genetics carry over, maybe they dont, theres no way to tell.
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nuckles101
unsuspecting stranger



Registered: 04/15/11
Posts: 19
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: RogerRabbit] 2
#14556144 - 06/03/11 03:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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hello, im a fairly new to the site. I came a cross a thread inwich it explained experiments of crossbreeding pan cyan with a cube. i had a few questions. 1 can you cross pan cyan with Panaeolus cinctulus, easily, sense there in the same species just like one can easily cross any two cubes? 2 can i cross redboy with Panaeolus cinctulus easily? 3 or is it better to cross redboy with cubensis? 4 i have also read that redboy was actualy a cross between azures and a cube. i assume this is completely false but any guidance or confirmation is greatly appreciated. 5 the info iv found for redboy is so vegue. what are some special properties of this hybrid I.E. faster colonization, drought resistant, different temperature for colonizing/fruiting ect? 6 reasons why there caps are so red and why there spore print is red? 7 what cube did you use for this crossbreed? 8 can cubes or any mushroom grow well in arid regions like texas? i know cubes grow in texas but can they be found in the desert areas when they get into the "rainy" season? Thank you for your time and efforts!
-------------------- let the world goooooooooooooooooooo. As it goes.
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wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest



Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
Loc: HTTP 404 Not Found
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: nuckles101] 2
#14556803 - 06/03/11 06:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
nuckles101 said: hello, im a fairly new to the site. I came a cross a thread inwich it explained experiments of crossbreeding pan cyan with a cube. i had a few questions. 1 can you cross pan cyan with Panaeolus cinctulus, easily, sense there in the same species just like one can easily cross any two cubes? 2 can i cross redboy with Panaeolus cinctulus easily? 3 or is it better to cross redboy with cubensis? 4 i have also read that redboy was actualy a cross between azures and a cube. i assume this is completely false but any guidance or confirmation is greatly appreciated. 5 the info iv found for redboy is so vegue. what are some special properties of this hybrid I.E. faster colonization, drought resistant, different temperature for colonizing/fruiting ect? 6 reasons why there caps are so red and why there spore print is red? 7 what cube did you use for this crossbreed? 8 can cubes or any mushroom grow well in arid regions like texas? i know cubes grow in texas but can they be found in the desert areas when they get into the "rainy" season? Thank you for your time and efforts!
1. No. Pan Cyan and Pan Cinct are different species. You cant cross species. 2. No. P. Cubensis and Pan Cinct are different species too. 3. Redboy is already a Cubensis. 4. You're thinking of the false , made up marketing story of B+. 5. Cubes are cubes. Growth parameters are the same regardless of strain. Same actives in all the strains too, though some people will argue that the trip is different. I've not found this to be the case, I think mind set and setting influence the trip far more. 6. Genetic mutation or recessive genes I would suspect. 7. I don't know the answer to this. 8. Its pretty unlikely that youll find them in the desert. Though anything is possible I guess. Good news is that they grow anywhere indoors.
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OoBYCoO
One grow down, a million to go!!



Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 8,120
Loc: USA
Last seen: 10 years, 28 days
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: wildernessjunkie] 2
#14556813 - 06/03/11 06:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Do a search for "rattle snake venom" and "hybridization" by RR and that might answer some of your questions.
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wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest



Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
Loc: HTTP 404 Not Found
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: OoBYCoO] 2
#14556828 - 06/03/11 06:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
OoBYCoO said: Do a search for "rattle snake venom" and "hybridization" by RR and that might answer some of your questions.
Oh yeah and 
I guess I should have added a statement about all of that being at the basic level. Without advanced education in Mycology, and genetics too I would imagine.
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OoBYCoO
One grow down, a million to go!!



Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 8,120
Loc: USA
Last seen: 10 years, 28 days
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: wildernessjunkie] 2
#14556837 - 06/03/11 06:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Also check out Workman's experiment
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Jonow
Stranger

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 135
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: OoBYCoO] 2
#14557184 - 06/03/11 07:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Anybody wanna give a run down on Perus?
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