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Aleon
The Power of Our Origins



Registered: 05/26/11
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Shiitake on logs questions
#14525546 - 05/28/11 09:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hi, i have a buddy who had a big 100+ year old oak cut down and i cut logs off the top for growing shiitake. My main question is trying to identify the species of oak ive got; i think it is either bur oak (macrocarpa), white oak (alba), or swamp white oak (bicolor). What do you tree people think after looking at the pics? The obvious question would be is this species ok for shiitake production, if not what will grow on them (lions main, maitake, reishi, artists conk, turkey tail, etc.) To help with oak species identification, i live in southern Wisconsin USA. One more question... When i did a smaller tree earlier this year it did not have many side branches/off shoots coming from the logs, but with this GIANT tree there are some. I was wondering if i just cut them off? Most off shoots are less than 1/4" in diameter, but i have a few logs with 1 1-2" branches.






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RogueTrippeR
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Re: Shiitake on logs questions [Re: Aleon]
#14526017 - 05/28/11 11:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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If the tree was alive when cut, I'd say let it sit fir a few weeks before inoculation. I'm new too this but would think that shiitake, lions main ro turkey tail, would work fine.
Good luck.
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Aleon
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Thanks RougeT. Yeah im hoping shiitake it will work. Either way its a all good its only like 70 logs, which cost me $150 to get the spawn, wax, etc. All i need is 10 pounds of shiitake to pay back for my investment. (i cannot find local log grown organic shiitake for under $15/lb.) So i pretty much need like 5 logs to work to pay it back. I think i can manage that.
One more question: What effects does moss or lichens/whatever on the bark have on mushroom logs?
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RogueTrippeR
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Re: Shiitake on logs questions [Re: Aleon]
#14526718 - 05/28/11 03:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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My guess, is it might rob the log of some moisture and possibly compete with nutes although I'd don't know. I think it would be wise to remove them.
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deadmandave
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My guess is the lichens/moss are not going to affect the growth of shiitake (which will fruit on any oak if im not mistake ). If you were to remove them you must take care not to damage the bark as it is necessary to protect the log from contamination.
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Aleon
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Re: Shiitake on logs questions [Re: deadmandave]
#14527452 - 05/28/11 06:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thank you very much deadmandave, i agree with everything you said. Thats what i thought, but i love hearing from other people who have more/different experiences then I.
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RogueTrippeR
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Re: Shiitake on logs questions [Re: Aleon]
#14527894 - 05/28/11 07:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I agree with deadmandave although while the shiitake will not be "affected" by the moss or lichens growing on the log. They are in fact also eating the log, most likely the very bark that is so important "and necessary to protect the log from contamination". If you leave them on the log, 1. it will lose more moisture during the dry seasons and 2. speed the decay of the bark decreasing the longevity.
I would carefully remove all exterior growth, but then again I'm not in your fortunate situation. 
my .2C
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Aleon
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RougeT, ill c what i can do. Im not sure how much ill be able to get off without messing up the bark (which is worse than just leaving it on IMO) but i will give it a try. Ill be cleaning em up and drill/inoculating them this week when i get the spawn in the mail
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deadmandave
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Re: Shiitake on logs questions [Re: Aleon]
#14529128 - 05/29/11 01:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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You could very well be right Rogue. I wonder if you can just kill them somehow instead of removing them. Maybe a quick burn by torch or something.. i do not know what would be best
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faiNt


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Re: Shiitake on logs questions [Re: deadmandave]
#14529287 - 05/29/11 03:00 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Are you serious I get 210 fresh chopped logs for $80 damn expensive in America :/
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Aleon
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Re: Shiitake on logs questions [Re: faiNt]
#14530601 - 05/29/11 12:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Faint, where abouts are you at??? Can you hook me up with a great deal like that!!! SO your getting logs for less than 50cent a piece??? "That may be expensive in america" but id be willing to pay double, heck quadruple, that amount to get good fresh cut logs that were cut in the dormant season, are from oak, maple, etc.trees, have diameters of 3-6", and cut in lengths of 40".
Who do you contact to buy logs with the criteria stated above from? Right now i just grab friends trees that have fallen, or were cut. It is free wood, but id rather buy them if possible so i can spend more time growing mushrooms and less time cutting up trees.
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kotter


Registered: 01/15/11
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Re: Shiitake on logs questions [Re: Aleon]
#14533453 - 05/29/11 10:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Its good to remove moss and lichens if they can get into your inoculations. Its just increasing the number of potential failed inoculation points even though shiitake plugs/spawn will quite often do just fine even if drilled right through dirt, moss and tree ferns. Or at least that's been my experience - I'm no expert just a lover of shiitakes and log cultivation. What won't pull off with fingers should come off with a gentle scrubbing with a stiff heavy wire brush (this will kill a cheap wire brush really fast) - followed by a nylon bristled one when there is dirt. Those logs look pretty clean.
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Aleon
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Re: Shiitake on logs questions [Re: kotter]
#14533680 - 05/29/11 11:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks kotter. I might try removing the growth on 1/2 the logs the way you explained, and leave the other half. That way i could potentially c what the difference is in due time. Either way im excited as i inoculated 30 logs earlier this year, and this is about 70 so i will have 100. If all works out, I can force fruit 10 at a time giving me 2.5+ pounds every week during the season (+/- 6 months in wisco). Thats plenty for eating, and maybe selling an extra pound to a lucky mycophagist
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RogueTrippeR
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Re: Shiitake on logs questions [Re: Aleon]
#14534722 - 05/30/11 07:50 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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What is your method of keeping your logs wet during the summer? I get no rain all summer where I am.
-------------------- Cluster Headache
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kotter


Registered: 01/15/11
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Its crazy how much shiitake tolerates. Maximizing speed of colonization by minimizing contaminant introduction (which is the only reason to clean moss from the surface) is going to give an increased yield in the long run. Its worth pushing the edges of any recommendations just to learn where the boundaries of your envelope really are.
We too typically get no rain in summer. If needed I use woven poly shade cloth. I also use a lawn sprinkler nailed to one of the ricks in each of the colonizarion zones to prevent me having to move it once positioned well. In most cases though just regular sprinkler use and stacking in a really shady spot works fine with no covering. (I live in a secondary regrowth forest with tall trees.) I also keep them tightly stacked in ricks until fully colonized at which point they get moved to a brighter zone of dappled light or partial sun. Protecting with tarps during the rainy season is just as important in terms of moisture control in order to be able to have some control over when they fruit. Fruiting with the rain can really hurt if it means your harvest peaks with everyone else and your outlets glut with fresh fungi while a bunch is in your hands. It also can mean forced mass harvests and drying when not convenient or too frequently repeated fruiting which can prematurely exhaust your logs. I'd also suggest trying a number of strains. Not just for sake of having more than one temperature fruiting range of a shiitake strain but to find what does best in your area and on your substrate choice.
I don't know what tools you all use but as an unsolicited observation the biggest jump in productivity for me came after buying a high speed drill. A 10K rpm side grinder (from the local Ace) using an adaptor from field and forest and a resharpenable bit with a stop welded on works really great but I also picked up a Japanese shiitake drill that is a dream to use. I'm a huge fan of nicely designed tools so I love it even if the side grinder is a way better deal for the price. If you don't use high speed drills already I can't recommend them too strongly. Drilling holes should not be work. Log production has plenty of hard work already.
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RogueTrippeR
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Re: Shiitake on logs questions [Re: kotter]
#14534912 - 05/30/11 09:14 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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kotter, thank you for all of the information you provided All good stuff. I am interested in what/how the "side grinder" works for you. Can you describe in more detail or show a picture of what is entailed.
I just ran into someone who is clearing their land and said they would put aside all the oak and cotton wood logs that are 4-6" diam. for me to pick up. How nice is that. I ask around for logs and find someone to do most of the hard work for me. he also said "I'll keep stacking the logs here for you until you say stop." So, I really want to take advantage of his offer. Do you make your own plug/spawn? Also good advice on using different strains. I'll have to work on that quickly as I only have one at the moment and haven't tested it yet.
Thanks again. RT
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Aleon
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Registered: 05/26/11
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Gr8 info Kotter, thanks again RougeT nice gig ya got goin on. I need to meet more people like that... 
And Kotter, i have the same setup for drilling the logs, i dont think there is any other way but 10K RPM. If you dont use angle grinder w/ adapter, or something similar, it would take yo all summer to drill your logs lol. It take like 1-2 minutes per logs/stump to drill the holes in. Also the bit you described is gr8 because it has a stop on it so you get just the right depth without spending any extra time to do so. What kind of spawn are you using, sawdust, plug, thimble, etc.? Also do you ever cover the ends of the logs with wax in order to contain the moisture in the log and reduce competetors? I tried it on some of my logs so we'll c.
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RogueTrippeR
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Re: Shiitake on logs questions [Re: Aleon]
#14535044 - 05/30/11 09:55 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I covered the ends of my log as well, seems like a good measure but when doing so many, I'm not sure how much wax it eats up and if it's worth it $.?
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Aleon
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RougeT, im in the same boat; is it cost effective? Does the extra time and money to do that give rise to higher yields which could pay back for the extra wax and time spent? I know all the asian shiitake logs growers that ive seen pics of do not have wax on the ends...
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dip
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Re: Shiitake on logs questions [Re: Aleon]
#14535324 - 05/30/11 11:10 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Aleon, those appear to be white oak logs. I have grown shiitake on that species. Another one that worked well for me was shellbark hickory.
dip
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