|
Solomon Ash
Nudibranch

Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 149
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
|
Thermodynamics and the immortality of consciousness
#14519768 - 05/27/11 08:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Just a little thought experiment:
First, we know that our own consciousness exists because we have direct experience of it.
Second, we know that the first law of thermodynamics is that neither energy nor matter can be created or destroyed, they can only change form.
Now, does this not imply that our consciousness, regardless of whether it is a material or energetic thing, can never be created or destroyed, but only change form?
Or is our consciousness something other than matter or energy, and if so what is it?
Or is there some reason why the law of thermodynamics does not apply to conciousness?
What do you think?
|
Zpw
The looker



Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 589
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
|
Re: Thermodynamics and the immortality of consciousness [Re: Solomon Ash]
#14519803 - 05/27/11 08:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Our mind is matter, matter cannot be destroyed. But if we change the form of the matter of the mind, you destroy the consciousness. easy as that IMO. But I am so bi polar and have no clue what I believe in haaah
-------------------- Things you can do, some can't be done. Z-pw Not everything I say is true.
|
Sleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
|
Re: Thermodynamics and the immortality of consciousness [Re: Solomon Ash]
#14519823 - 05/27/11 08:33 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Some sort of awareness always being present...I don't think so. Judging by the fact that I don't exist during deep sleep, why should death be any less empty?
Consciousness is not a single "thing" or form of energy, it is an amalgamation of signals and responses.
|
Damkina
Newcomer



Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 328
Loc: Romania
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
|
Re: Thermodynamics and the immortality of consciousness [Re: Sleepwalker]
#14519873 - 05/27/11 08:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Defining conciousness is the actual dilema. Myself, I define conciousness as the self-awareness of the entire universe. Therefore,everything is more or less self-aware,because everything consists of energy and empty space,and raw energy is self-awareness itself.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Thermodynamics and the immortality of consciousness [Re: Solomon Ash]
#14519878 - 05/27/11 08:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Solomon Ash said: Just a little thought experiment:
First, we know that our own consciousness exists because we have direct experience of it.
Second, we know that the first law of thermodynamics is that neither energy nor matter can be created or destroyed, they can only change form.
Now, does this not imply that our consciousness, regardless of whether it is a material or energetic thing, can never be created or destroyed, but only change form?
Or is our consciousness something other than matter or energy, and if so what is it?
Or is there some reason why the law of thermodynamics does not apply to conciousness?
What do you think?
The effect of something material does not have to do anything imo.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Sleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
|
Re: Thermodynamics and the immortality of consciousness [Re: Icelander]
#14519884 - 05/27/11 08:50 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said: The effect of something material does not have to do anything imo.
Exactly. I don't think consciousness has any real substance. It's just an emergent property of brain structure/activity. It's like asking where the magnetism goes when you destroy a magnet.
|
Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
|
Re: Thermodynamics and the immortality of consciousness [Re: Solomon Ash]
#14519945 - 05/27/11 09:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Now, does this not imply that our consciousness, regardless of whether it is a material or energetic thing, can never be created or destroyed, but only change form?
This is a misconstruing of thermodynamics.
Consciousness is neither matter nor energy. It is information. It is the ARRANGEMENT of matter and energy in a brain.
You can't destroy a book as it is matter and energy. If you burn it, it will turn into the equivalent mass of hot gasses, ash and the mass-equivalent of the heat energy released as it burned. Nothing ultimately changed in that context.
The information the book contained, however, is completely destroyed.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: Thermodynamics and the immortality of consciousness [Re: Solomon Ash]
#14520064 - 05/27/11 10:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Solomon Ash said: Or is our consciousness something other than matter or energy, and if so what is it?
This. Consciousness is not matter nor is it energy, it is an emergent property that exists only as a product of a particular set of interactions between energy and matter. Its similar to a wave, when a wave breaks it exists - then when it hits the shore it disappears. It was created, and then destroyed - it is not conserved. It is an emergent property of interactions between matter and energy, like consciousness.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Thermodynamics and the immortality of consciousness [Re: Solomon Ash]
#14520453 - 05/27/11 12:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Solomon Ash said: Just a little thought experiment:
First, we know that our own consciousness exists because we have direct experience of it.
Second, we know that the first law of thermodynamics is that neither energy nor matter can be created or destroyed, they can only change form.
Now, does this not imply that our consciousness, regardless of whether it is a material or energetic thing, can never be created or destroyed, but only change form?
Uh, no..the energy/matter constituting the brain (from which consciousness emerges) may change form, and if it does, it may no longer produce consciousness because its existence depends on a particular formation. Consciousness is not a form, it is not made of energy/matter, it is an emergent property of a functioning brain..this means that consciousness can't change form (it has no form to begin with which can be changed).
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
|