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Registered: 01/14/07 Posts: 1,247 |
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Quote: Geeez. You must be good Joe because most thinking women would have bolted. But then yours may have seen some other wacky phases you haven't mentioned. You see I got criticized by my woman for working in the corporate world and and living and thinking in the alternative. The last time this was discussed she called me a hypocrite and she was right. You can't go on bagging the worshipers of Growth at all costs, then work for a publicly listed company. So I quit. Shrooms (and the women) had an influence in helping me realise and action that. Working hard to increase the share value is meaningless and I just could not see how I was adding any value to anything or anyone, even to me. So there you go, first hand experience in taking something from tripping into the boardroom. I now work for benevolent organisations and feel better for it, no white shirt or tie. You seem proud of your white collar handsome, lucky bugger with a mysterious second life existence but then needed to purge it the first chance you get. As if the strain needs relieving. Sounds like you resent it and those fucking drugs haven't helped, they are bullshit, they only made it worse so you backed off disappointed and disillusioned. Maybe you have indeed been changed more than you think and cannot maintain the dual existence any longer so you've chosen one god, for now it's the one you resent, the one your mum admires. I could interpret the "handsome fuck" as matter of fact (you may be), or just that the shrooms and DMT haven't shredded you ego, enough. But be careful Joe, your experiences may have dimmed the halo, you might not be the best judge of that now.
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DMT is Bullshit Registered: 04/12/09 Posts: 6,525 |
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Quote: The psychedelics never made question the rat race, capitalism, materialism, the problems with western culture, or the way I live. I think reading tons of sociology, anthropology, and philosophy taught me more about that stuff than tripping ever could. My eyes were already opened to that shit way before I began ayahuasca. I managed to carve out a positive and fulfilling existence with my career and life. I consider myself fortunate that I have tremendous freedom to be creative and do what I want. I really have very little stress, enjoy the people I work with, and am financially secure. That was never the problem. The dual existence was kind of funny, a novelty, kinda like I was Ferris Bueller. I sort of am him. The problem was that strange, subtle delusional and fetishistic thoughts began creeping into my sober mind. Weird sorts of abstract, nonsensical thinking lingered after trips. (did I really experience the Big Bang last night? What does it mean?) They had nothing to do with how I was living my life or any sort of angst. I guess I took these drugs for a bit of excitement, and after a while I realized oral DMT does whatever you want it to do. It literally makes dreams come true, it brings fantasies to life, it seems to read your mind and then gives you whatever it is you want. It always throws a curve ball in there, but the wacky curve is fundamental to the appeal of the drug. It's really the perfect drug for certain intellectual minds. It just twists logic, inverts knowledge, all while tickling you. In addition, it presses those fucking Spiritual, Profound, and Euphoric buttons at the same time, mashing down on them hard. It is hard for anyone to remain rational under those conditions and even harder to detect that you are doing harm to yourself when it feels so right. -------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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Registered: 12/21/10 Posts: 1,898 Loc: Abroad. |
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Just droppin by to say I enjoyed the read. Ironically I made a thread calling you out, and after tripping hard the past few weeks see more eye to eye with you then ever before. Ah forgive me for being so rude and naive.
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Registered: 09/19/10 Posts: 3,614 Last seen: 11 years, 3 months |
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I digged into the spirituality and meditation in the "written" way after a little while. I had a pretty profound trip though.
I've talked about it, how I got mindfucked and now I don't care about anything but making each day better than the one before it. I also figured out that I already meditate often. I think of my breath, sit there and focus on thinking nothing, etc, but it isn't in the same sense as the way you read it. Find yourself. Find things that work for you. Spread happiness and joy, be good to karma and she will be good to you. You change the world one good deed at a time, so don't hesitate to take your friend's trash out or offer to drive somewhere. Chances are, if you believe hard enough, that kind gesture will come back around. Karma is very real in my reality. Every day I receive gifts from the gifts I bestow. I only wish I could just have a little camera that records everything my eyes see. Then, maybe, I could get my point across better and show what I mean. Its very difficult being human. Speech is such a limited form of communication. It doesn't help when we take psychs and think we figured out the next greatest epiphany on how to live. I stopped trying to explain myself a long time ago, because I got tired of sounding like a rambling madman. Honestly, I don't even know why I come here. I don't post 1% of the shit I would normally respond with because A. it would take forever to type and B. people wouldn't get the point I was trying to prove. Also, it doesn't help that literally everything anybody says ever can always be disproved or questioned. You can say "why" to anything, for example, and there's always somebody to chime in and tell you how you're wrong. Or you said something too general, or its too specific, or whatever. Can always count that its gonna turn out something like what I just typed. I only hope you guys learn how to create happiness like I have. Please don't take this as a boast, I don't mean it as one in any way, shape or form, but I'm having so much fun it should be illegal. Oh...wait. ![]() ![]() P.S. I hated on Joe too man, so don't worry about it. He came off the page like a major doucher, and I disliked him for it. I'm happy I have had the pleasure to read Joe's opinions now though. He's very level headed, and I'd love to go romp around on some crazy drug frenzy with him. -------------------- Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.
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DMT is Bullshit Registered: 04/12/09 Posts: 6,525 |
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Quote: I believe people have spiritual experiences but they are evolutionary tricks to keep desperate people going, kind of like nature's strategy for survival. Think about it, many people experience these feelings at their lowest point, it keeps them from suicide or giving up on life. Your culture determines the vehicle or religion in which these feelings are expressed. Ayahuasca, I believe, accesses this part of the brain. Quote: What can I say? I wish had your smarts, your perceptive ability to distinguish reality from delusion. I wish I had your rational and logical mind as I took ayahuasca. I wish I was able to tell between detrimental drug abuse and positive drug taking behavior but it felt so damn good and compelling that I was sure I was building an even stronger mind for myself. If only I had your mind I would have been able to do it. I'm stuck with this dull brain and was gulled into believing bullshit. Don't think I wasn't aware of everything you said in your above quote during my two year ayahuasca stint, it was just meaningless to me. It meant nothing, carried no weight, and was simply shitted out of my head. Do you understand how fucked up that is? -------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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Registered: 09/19/10 Posts: 3,614 Last seen: 11 years, 3 months |
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Joe, the reason it meant nothing to you was because you didn't let it. You're too fucking black and white man. Drugs don't make you turn into God and they aren't "stupid bullshit". They are simply whatever you want them to be.
I want them to be happiness, party, good time, good company, life changing experience. Guess what happens when I do drugs? I HAVE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE TRAITS! (Caps/yelling to try and prove a point here) Next time you dose, just think about how great life is. You have a house, a lover, a job, and whatever drug you're about to take. Life is great man. Just be happy, be here, be present, have fun, and spread the love, brother.
-------------------- Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.
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Registered: 01/14/07 Posts: 1,247 |
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Quote: Great controlled response to someone unsuccessfully trying to map their own experience onto you. Nice.
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Registered: 07/24/09 Posts: 1,126 |
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Edited by FrenchMachine (05/26/11 11:59 PM)
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Registered: 09/14/10 Posts: 2,938 |
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Quote: I'm willing to bet there's a reason you opted out of the rating system. This is just extremely disrespectful. Whether you agree or disagree with joe, and whether you think he's being irrational or not, your response is extremely rude and uncalled for. Give respect and you will receive it back.
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DMT is Bullshit Registered: 04/12/09 Posts: 6,525 |
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Quote: If they are improving your life, its shitty of me to try to rain on your parade. But part of me thought it was improving my life too, a large part of me knew that my drug taking was important and integral to my growth and existence - and I now think I was fooling myself - classic psychology 101 mind tricks. Maybe you are not fooling yourself, but I was. I don't know if you have much experience with ayahuasca but that brew in particular had me twisted. No other psychedelics ever had anywhere near power and force of those chemicals. Maybe some people have trouble relating because they are thinking of their shroom, LSD, or cactus experiences. I took mescaline weekly for six months and that drug did nothing to me in the sense of lingering effects or strange afterthoughts or religious experiences. I also had a long stint with LSD back in the 90s where I bought a few sheets and tripped often. None of that prepared me for the exquisite magic of ayahuasca Frenchmachine, perhaps you should think of it as someone who took ayahuasca weekly for two years and told his story. Perhaps this story is more about ayahuasca use rather than psychedelics in general because my other psychedelic trips do not fit into the ayahuasca category. The fact that I'm an adult with a decent, stable life with my head on straight before I embarked on the oral DMT journeys shows how (ab)use of these drugs can take a rational well-adjusted person and make him think that each trip is another chapter unfolding in a well-planned existential cosmic novel that was written by him and starring him because he was God. I'm getting fuckin' chills thinking of that wild shit that was coursing through my sober head during the time. Anyway, as you read my posts, as much as I can be an arrogant asshole, I'm pouring fucking my heart out. Does my vagina get wet when people respond to me? Yes. There are some awesome people in this community who have supported me and helped stitch me back together. Even those who hate what I say have made me think and grow. I hope you find your peace, FM. -------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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biophiliac Registered: 05/29/10 Posts: 1,889 Loc: the woods |
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Quote: i too have read tons of sociology, philosophy and anthropology. with that being the case, i tend to notice that my trips often break down into some sort of "socio-anthropological" analyzing of myself, the story i tell myself about myself and the the story i tell myself about the world around me. i first started experimenting with psychedelics at a later point in life and as such had already formed some pretty hefty world views (i was a missionary for like half of my twenties. now that was a trip). it is a bummer that you took the experience to such an excessive level. the "addict" in me always wants to do something more than is good for my mind or body. i have to keep that side in check. i prefer the "slow path" of psychedelic experimentation. i see an unhealthy trend in the way many Americans (self included) approach the consumption of anything. we do it to excess and destroy any sacred value that may have been derived from that action or experience in the past (whether or not you believe in the sacredness of the psychedelic experience it's still there). p.s. i have no experience with ayahuasca or DMT. i see both of these to be far too important to use on a semi-recreational basis. i've read quite a bit on the ill effects of widespread LSD usage by unsuspecting or ill informed users back in the 60's and 70's and i see this new wave of psychedelic experimentation in a similar way. here we are, a young, naive, egotistical culture embarking upon journeys that have been guided for thousands of years by certain medicine men and in very specific ceremonies. it just doesn't sit right with me
-------------------- "We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell Edited by gerryjarcia (05/26/11 06:18 AM)
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DMT is Bullshit Registered: 04/12/09 Posts: 6,525 |
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Definitely an insightful post, Gerry. We're kindred spirits, I think.
@Abstrakt, Farmer, Futurist, Bholzer and Joolz, I'm glad that we're all on this journey together and your words and interpretation and knowledge are powerfully moving to me. -------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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Tuft checker Registered: 09/23/10 Posts: 995 Loc: EU |
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Would I be right is suggesting that your job is fairly vacuous in nature and that you do it cause it pays well but it has zero meaning to you ?You seem like an incredibly egotistical person with huge self confidence. Is this post just venting some frustration on some hippy dudes cause you cannot integrate your head strong abuse of psychedelic substances, you wanted the answer but you never got them and now you can see that the real problem is actually more difficult to solve because to change what you do for a living, now that takes real balls. Can't quite go the whole hog molley boy, so give some shit to others?
I find it pretty sick this guy needs this much attention. My god you are the antithesis of enlightenment. And I have not learnt a single thing from your self asserted ego ride.Teach me something Joe I am all ears. To be able to teach you need to listen, something you have shown a distinct inability to be able to do.You do not even acknowledge that you do not have justification to suggest others are not having bullshit experiences. This man appears to be a prize plonker, not worth the time taken to type words. Joe seems like a take, take, take, type of person to me. The length of the thread is little to do with knowledge, anything of value and interest and more to do with self evident suggestion that you are well living twat who just needs more attention because you are incapable or scared of looking inside at the reason why you need the attention. Edited by Sobercolober (05/26/11 09:04 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 03/05/09 Posts: 1,379 Loc: Canada |
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This is just to the OP.
DONT STOP NOW! :O Homeopathy! Symptoms appear to get worse before the get better... Doing psychedelics inst just willy nilly jacking off.. DMT molecules SPECIFICALLY (mushrooms included) are extra dimensional carriers and conduits of interstellar travel.. Of interstellar communication... OMG Seriosuyl XD It's not a dirty at all.. That's your insecurities and programming seeing that you are close to awakening and they are trying stop you from atually getting it, because they will feel like they will cease to exist.. If your a feeling and cant feel yourself anymore :O what then! Have empathy for these feelings.. But dont quit now. Please don't.. X.x DMT is our Friend... -------------------- Why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side. "Adapt. Adjust. Accommodate." "Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...
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Worldwide Stepper Registered: 10/30/09 Posts: 31,383 Loc: House of Mirrors Last seen: 12 hours, 30 minutes |
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Quote:
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DMT is Bullshit Registered: 04/12/09 Posts: 6,525 |
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Quote: Or maybe everything was pretty cool with my life and I just realized drugs weren't the answer and weren't going to make me any happier. In fact, they just might have almost fucked up a good thing. That's the take home lesson, sobercolober. You've just been enlightened. Go on, reject it. You wish there were so much more going on beneath the surface, but its really pretty simple and straightforward. I took these drugs to have a good time and grow, but they did just the opposite in the end. And you can say I was scared of the Truth, but it never showed me any Truth. It shows you whatever you want, along with a wacky curveball, every fucking time. Fuck it, man. Don't you get the joke? Psychedelic lore, legend, enlightenment, visions, and all the rest are bullshit. Yeah it's a fucking wide net that I cast, but I think you got caught in it and it bothers the fuck out of you. There I go projecting again, right? -------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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Registered: 09/14/10 Posts: 2,938 |
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Quote: This reminds me of Richard Alpert, only in a sort of ironic way, because Richard Alpert stopped drugs and moved on to Eastern Mysticism. The parallel I see is that you found that drugs didn't provide any divine truths, just as Richard Alpert did. The difference is that he kept searching and went to Eastern religion, whereas you went back into regular society. I greatly admire you ability to turn your head on everything DMT was throwing at you and deny it as bullshit. I really do, because, while I haven't tried DMT, I can appreciate the crazy shit these chemicals throw at our brains, and I can imagine just how difficult it could be to deny the truth in something that feels so fine tuned to your mind. The truth is, like you said, it really is fine tuned to our minds because the experience is simply our minds trying to make sense out of nonsense and stimulate our desire to find meaning. I get real disappointed every time somebody calls you a troll or a twat. It's beyond obvious that you're not trolling, and while you are opinionated in a harsh way, your opinion would just be discarded if it wasn't. Your stubbornness in your beliefs is what gets people to really consider them and think about it, which is necessary in this situation. I still strongly believe that what you say resonates in an unsettling way with people who believe wholeheartedly that these drugs are medicine. You've no doubt inspired me to really analyze my beliefs, not so much because what you say is in conflict with them, but because your case goes to show that there is always a reasonable doubt involved in any belief, no matter how truthfully you are invested in them. The worst that could happen is that you could inspire people to question their beliefs and solidify them. There's nothing wrong with questioning your beliefs, even if you end up stronger in them in the end. If anybody is a whiny bitch, its somebody who hates you to the point that they can't stand you expressing a conflicting opinion. I also love the people who try and attack you saying that you must have a shitty life, or you must have had bad experiences, or you must be an overly cynical person. It's amazing to see how many people are so invested in this that there's no way they can believe anybody could go through the psychedelic experience and come to the conclusions you have. It's appalling, even. For me, personally, you have inspired me to proceed with caution. Perhaps the reason I mostly agree with you is that I'm new in my Psychedelic "journey", so to speak, and I haven't gotten so invested to the point that it angers me that you would disagree, if you get what I mean. Perhaps if I had encountered you further down the road, I would have a fit when I read what you had to say. I know that I appreciate the warnings you provide, and I know that I'm going to take them to heart as I continue taking these drugs. Some of the people on this site scare me because I wouldn't want to turn out like them, to be honest. I have a healthy fear, I believe, for the dangerous potential of these substances and of becoming invested in a psychedelic religion that keeps me from functioning in the real world. Long story short, thank you joemolloy for your words of caution. Even if you are wrong, you've still provided me with enough skepticism to be more careful with the substances I use and how they affect me. To those of you that disagree with him, you should be thanking him for providing you with arguments that allow you to think critically in order to defend your beliefs. There's nothing better than debating for solidifying beliefs and getting further in touch with what you truly believe.
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Outnumbered Registered: 04/30/11 Posts: 8 Last seen: 12 years, 5 months |
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I just wanted to say thanks for the perspective, Joe. Especially since it seemed a bit hard to get out there.
It sucks that so many people here can't appreciate it for what it is and have to call you a troll or whatever. I'm not going to get into the debate because that is a senseless thing when dealing with experiences as personal as those on psychedelics especially when you have people with such strong views whose lives have been impacted one way or another. Good vibes!
-------------------- "Arf," She said.
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Tuft checker Registered: 09/23/10 Posts: 995 Loc: EU |
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Well I came at this from an odd perspective, I was heavily into meditation since around 17 and unusually young age to be into it, long story short I got lost with it. Wasn't up for following a guru (not that I would have easily found one). Sure I had very deep experiences as deep as psychedelic use. Possibly deeper. Quite a few realizations.
(i.e. dissolution of perceiver and perceived when sensing the centre point of reception/interpretation of phenomena) Again transient experiences though. Tried to hold onto these experiences and relate them to my life very similar story to use of psychedelics. Fact is you are going to die whether you have meditated 50pct of your life or not, you still going to deal with that issue like any other living being. IMO I am not convinced Shroom can open gateways of knowledge I like the sheer awe of the depth of human emotions (a biggy for me), or insight, I like the buzz and oddness and positive feelings I get following their use, heightened sensory perception, music means a lot to me and I am in total wonderment with it when using Shroom. (including being able to do work in an effective and creative way) Sure they throw up interesting stuff but I am not sure anything is life changing or enlightening.Salvia... well Joe if you have not been down with Salvia quids yet, I suggest a cautious venture. Now this really has got something to tell you. Completely different texture of psychedelic and pretty scary. No gentle high feeling. Nope, pure visual and mental insights IMO. But it is not a "high" and it is not euphoric. I think you might need to leave the "highs" behind, they are too easy a ride and get down with the jungle shit. It will balance your hedonistic "for the feeling" usage with some scary unpleasant home truths. Have you tied it?I suggest do not smoke like youtube idiots and chew quids (wrapped leaves rehydrated and chewed for 25 mins)) What is your take on Psychedelics in indigenous cultures Joe, bullshit? Have you seen DMT the spirit molecule?, You think these people are speaking bullshit? For me it is one of the most interesting docs well produced and documents the insight and experience of some highly intelligent individuals. (and it is on Youtube still I think, just look for the full version that runs for about 01:15 mins) I have never had the chance to try DMT in any form.What can leave a bitter taste is that psychedelics can leave you feeling disillusioned about the some of the values that some of our societies are based upon. They are a double edged sword and I do not think there is a single person here who has not had the dark side creep up on them at some point during a trip. But you think you are unique in this respect, pretty naive and immature. But this is why we are here for better of for worse. Your interpretation is personal not universal. And you are still trying to tell me that what I experience is not of value, what gives you the ability to suggest this? Convey your experiences with as much vigour as you wish but please let it lie when it comes to interpreting my and others experience on our behalves as if your opinion is fact. (your DMT is bullshit slogan is incomplete, the words "in my experience" need to be attached) Your opinion is 0 pct more valuable than anyone elses. And remember it's an opinion and nothing with any inherent tangibility. The point that can inflame peoples responses is not that he has a different point of view or disagrees. It's that he deems himself an authority on other people experiences which he can and never will be. Yet has a great deal to say on the subject.Therefore can be justifiably criticized with vigour. It is not "questioning beliefs " it is substituting questioning with a self appointed and deluded conclusion. I also think it is disingenuous to suggest that others are appalling for standing up for their own interpretation rather than have it substituted by someone else's negative and very narrow experience. (i.e. for themselves and no one else). This thread is Bullshit, yet it seems no one is sober enough to realize, lol. Edited by Sobercolober (05/27/11 03:48 PM)
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TreeHugger Registered: 03/16/09 Posts: 440 Loc: turn left after Last seen: 11 years, 8 months |
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Quote: I've met so many people like joe (thats not a bad thing). He's exactly the same as an alcoholic, or someone who abused any drug and it got out of control. I have a mate who SERIOUSLY fucked up on LSD (serious overuse). I have other friends who had bad reactions to cannabis, cocaine, mushrooms, amphetamines, painkillers and sleeping tablets. But 99% of these people I know, do not blame the drug for what happened to them. They only blame themselves, for their own abuse and misuse. They realize (like myself with speed) drugs are not the problem, people are. If someone posted bad stuff about alcohol, those who do not have a problem with alcohol, nor abuse alcohol, would be blind to see any link between their own normal alcohol use when some alcoholic tells them alcohol is going to kill them, even though they are not abusing alcohol. No-one wakes up and thinks... 'today I'm going to get a drink problem', you have to allow yourself to get into that situation. Joe, mate, Honestly, I do respect what you're trying to do, however, there is a big difference between telling us all you had/have a problem, then blame the drug. We all have choices, and responsibilities. One of those is to learn from our mistakes, and to help other people not make that bad decision. So maybe it shouldn't have been 'this drug is dangerous, it will fuck you, so don't do it', instead more of a "Warning" if you choose to use this drug, please be aware these are the dangers, and this can happen, be responsible OR it will fuck you up. -------------------- If you don't respect and understand the drug you are about to take, you shouldn't be doing it. youtube vid - 'the truth about drugs' - (part 2) http://www.youtube.com/user/MrTh
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If you don't respect and understand the drug you are about to take, 