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wood chip
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weak strians and the spores they produce
#14515292 - 05/26/11 01:14 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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If the spores of weak stains are germinated the resulting cultures will be weak. A vendor selling spores has vastly different products in terms of how strong the mushroom cultures are and how the spores are generated for sale. I have read mycologist who have stated that some stains of fungi are immortal and others degenerate in the book "Fungi: Experimental Methods In Biology" Meaning some can and some cannot be grown exponentially in a chemostat indefinitely.
This leads to a situation in which the vendor may intentionally produce weak spores because one cannot propagate them very long (unless they save the first isolate on a slant which would still be weak) and it will likely be slightly weaker than the strain used by the vendor do make spores.
If one is selling spores and wants someone to be dependent on reordering, they could easily take a weak stain and put it on a slant for the purpose of making sure a strong strains spores are not sold which has a greater diversity and the possibility of generating large numbers of high quality stains.
The time of spore germination (or weak slant culture start up) to fruit body (minus the hibernation time) is usually not given to the spore consumer. Why?
This is not a flame, but a question in regards to weather this type of practice occurs or if the theory itself has holes in it.
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cc2
Mush

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 2,611
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14515660 - 05/26/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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IMO weak spores are those who germinate unevenly or at low percentages. it is highly unlikely that out of millions of spores you won't get a decent fruit which you cannot clone.
as for the times you're asking for, they depends largely on mushroom specie (tied variable) and method of culture, humidity, light, temperature etc. (free variable).
however still IMHO, all this seems unappropriate to advance mycology section.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce (moved) [Re: wood chip]
#14515677 - 05/26/11 02:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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This thread was moved from Advanced Mycology.
Reason: probably get more answers in cult
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wood chip
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce (moved) [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14520762 - 05/27/11 01:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Actually, I posted in this in advanced mycology for a reason.
This subject is quite advanced and that is why I posted it there. I don't know why you moved it.
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k00laid
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce (moved) [Re: wood chip]
#14520789 - 05/27/11 01:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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spores arent strains yo.
spores are the genetic BASELINE
and sure they have some genetic similarities with the host fruit. but a weak fruit can produce spores with the potential of producing insanely potent fruits.
check the mushroom strains link in my sig for more info.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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k00laid
NEMO


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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14520801 - 05/27/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wood chip said: If one is selling spores and wants someone to be dependent on reordering
the sponsors dont play like that.
you only reorder if you want a variety of cube that you can't seem to find a trade for in the marketplace.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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wood chip
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: k00laid]
#14523277 - 05/27/11 08:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Spore sales people have to make money. They have no obligation to sell spores originating from high quality strains. The spores must germinate which requires them to be young and generate from a strains with a certain minimum strength. Old spores from high quality stains seem to be viable much longer. A weak damaged stains produces weak spores. eventually they will not produce spores, or the spores will not germinate. If one has the means to have many parallel culture slants, of many different stains it would be easy to determine and test each stain.
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14523772 - 05/27/11 10:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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The Sponsors on this site are reputable dealers. They don't sell crap. Believe the countless members who can vouch.
As far as why a vendor would sell an inferior product ... IDK, why would they? They wouldn't be around long if people didn't like their product. So it would seem counter-productive to sabotage your business with "weak stains".
Makes no sense. It's just not logical
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: Wing]
#14523786 - 05/27/11 10:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
A weak damaged stains produces weak spores. eventually they will not produce spores, or the spores will not germinate.
I really think you are confused. How do you go about damaging a strain? Fruits produce spores. Are we talking about an isolate or a ms syringe from a vendor?
ms syringes are crap shoots
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
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k00laid
NEMO


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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14523926 - 05/27/11 10:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wood chip said: Spore sales people have to make money. They have no obligation to sell spores originating from high quality strains..
you seem to be misunderstanding what mushrooms do.
spores are the genetic baseline.
spores cant be bad, even from a bad fruit.
you get spores from an albino you dont always get albinos
you get spores from a potent fruit you dont always get potent fruits
you get spores from a weak fruit and you dont always get weak fruits.
you see what im sayin here?
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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fngbronco
Monkey Man



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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: k00laid]
#14524585 - 05/28/11 01:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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You're also not taking into account they can sell 100% dead spores as they are for microscopy use only.
The other claims are very much unfounded as people can take a non-potent b+ and get super potent ones with the spores.
I realize there's no difference except were they were collected from in the wild that changes potential appearance or growth characteristics in certain environments. Otherwise the spores are completely different specimens...think of how close you are to your parents or cousins. Even people who's parents are siblings (mom marries sister-in-laws brother or brother in laws brother, or incest if you wanna go that route) produce either weak or strong kids.
-------------------- I challenge you to challenge yourself more! When you feel complacent and ready to hang it up, challenge yourself to get over it! If you fail, don't look at it as you didn't succeed, look at it as you would a rock face you're trying to climb. Stand back, wayyyy back, and look at it and plot another path. If you can't find one, shuffle down the way a little, a little change of scenery or a view from a different angle may give you the insight you need. Anything I state is relayed information from a friend of a friend and should be viewed as completely fictitious. I do not partake in any illegal or grey-area-of-the-law activities, but do have lots of friends who may or may not. -fngbronco Pill Divider Agar Tek
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slapphappypill
Enthusiast!




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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: fngbronco]
#14524811 - 05/28/11 02:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fngbronco said: You're also not taking into account they can sell 100% dead spores as they are for microscopy use only.
Right there! Thats what earth's tongue did to me!! They sent me spores that produced non-fruiting mycelium. Then told me to shove off
-------------------- We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze.... FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly! I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably! ~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~ ~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~ ~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~
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Alex22
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: fngbronco]
#14525241 - 05/28/11 07:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fngbronco said: You're also not taking into account they can sell 100% dead spores as they are for microscopy use only.
The other claims are very much unfounded as people can take a non-potent b+ and get super potent ones with the spores.
I realize there's no difference except were they were collected from in the wild that changes potential appearance or growth characteristics in certain environments. Otherwise the spores are completely different specimens...think of how close you are to your parents or cousins. Even people who's parents are siblings (mom marries sister-in-laws brother or brother in laws brother, or incest if you wanna go that route) produce either weak or strong kids.
I have only small experience growing but I can say this is very true. I ordered from a non shroomery vendor because I didn't know of this site yet and the cakes took over a month to colonize. I took a spore print from one of the mushrooms and made a syringe. It has been about ten days and the jars I inoculated with it are about 70% colonized already. While I bought another syringe from the same site and it is barely colonized.
So in other words the spores I bought from them might have had bad genetics (I only got a few good sized shrooms in later flushes and a bunch of dime sized caps) but the offspring the original spores produced seems to be stronger at this early stage. The true test will be the fruiting I suppose however.
-------------------- http://gaianmushroommind.webs.com/articles.htm Trying to start a movement. Here is the first article. Excerpt: " Imagine if I told you that you could use the alphabet but only from G to V. That sounds ridiculous right? Then why is it okay to live our lives within the parameters others set? There is an entire world of experience that we are being denied." Read it, let me know what you think, PM me.
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SKrink
KING MOB


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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14525388 - 05/28/11 08:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wood chip said: A weak damaged stains produces weak spores. eventually they will not produce spores, or the spores will not germinate.
Stupid people can have smart kids. Short people can have tall kids. Blonde people can have brunette kids. And vice versa, et cetera. Luck of the draw, recessive/dominant alleles and all that. (sorry my biology is rusty)
I know mushrooms are not people, but just as a parallel:
A short, stupid, ugly couple isn't necessarily doomed to pass on those traits indefinitely until complete degeneration of their bloodline. Unless they continually and ridiculously select for those traits in their mates.
Oh, and mushrooms are people too!
Quote:
wood chip said: Spore sales people have to make money. They have no obligation to sell spores originating from high quality strains.
They do if they want to make money. With a community like the Shroomery, word spreads too quick for a low quality vendor to stay in business.
--------------------
SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES
HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB
... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!
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k00laid
NEMO


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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: SKrink]
#14525497 - 05/28/11 09:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET A SYRINGE FULL OF SPORES AND UNDERSTAND WHICH OF THOSE SPORES WILL PRODUCE A FRUITING STRAIN OR NOT.
SPORES ARE GENETIC BASELINE.
im leaving this thread now, yall can masturbate about how sponsors are conspiring to take your money in peace.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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fngbronco
Monkey Man



Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 2,877
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: k00laid]
#14525555 - 05/28/11 09:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Most the people here are in agreement with ya k00laid
-------------------- I challenge you to challenge yourself more! When you feel complacent and ready to hang it up, challenge yourself to get over it! If you fail, don't look at it as you didn't succeed, look at it as you would a rock face you're trying to climb. Stand back, wayyyy back, and look at it and plot another path. If you can't find one, shuffle down the way a little, a little change of scenery or a view from a different angle may give you the insight you need. Anything I state is relayed information from a friend of a friend and should be viewed as completely fictitious. I do not partake in any illegal or grey-area-of-the-law activities, but do have lots of friends who may or may not. -fngbronco Pill Divider Agar Tek
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wood chip
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: SKrink]
#14525648 - 05/28/11 10:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Fact. Not all viable spores are equal. Most stains grown over and over (a spawn run with lots of cell divisions) mutate over time usually for the worst. All mycologist working in this field know this. This is not about vendors ripping people off. I think most vendors here would replace a contaminated syringe or dead spores. Would they sell spores generated from a super stain made from an intentional spore cross, mutation,that created an exceptionally rigorous strain, or one cloned from the wild. When a species is named only a one or a couple of stains are described in the beginning. As more and more become available it becomes clear the definition has to become more general and expanded to the point of questioning are there more than one species and should a general group be considered instead. Sometimes bridges showing the continuity can be elucidated. If you have several close species of a mushroom and one was clearly superior in performance would you sell it and allow the strain to be freely amplified? No commercial operation would allow this.
Why do commercial "Agaricus bisporus group" spawn producers often use stains isolated many years ago and held on slants? These advanced strain crossers and world wide isolaters of new wild Agaricus mushrooms must know the answer, unfortunately there are very secretive. Are the clones of these Agaricus stains, from the store, so much weaker than the mother spawn just because of a single run through compost. Anyone ever wonder why there are zero high quality Agaricus grows on the shroomery?
These questions require a great deal of experimental observation to answer accurately.
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k00laid
NEMO


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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14525722 - 05/28/11 10:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wood chip said: Fact. Not all viable spores are equal.
fact. you nor the sponsor can tell the difference between a viable and unviable spore, or a potent or unpotent spore.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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wood chip
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: k00laid]
#14525931 - 05/28/11 11:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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It is very easy to tell the difference by simple germination and observation.
However, even without germinating the spore, a statistical probability could be made by one who is familiar with strain performance and the life cycles that an individual culture complex has gone through. I suspect inbreeding can be a real problem for vendors who do not store stains properly, or go back to prints collected from the wild. One might even know that spores will germinate only once or twice before the death of the cell line. This would require hibernating a strain in a slant and testing the cycles for decrease in spore viability and fruit body clone abiltiy which are related. Cloned fruit bodies of dying strains produce slow growing degenerate mycelium they also produce degenerating spores. These kind of spores generate a similar mycelium to a clone of the fruit body in which they originate from in my observations. Not a lot of diversity left. Inbreeding or to long equals death and is not sustainable.
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k00laid
NEMO


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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14525954 - 05/28/11 11:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wood chip said: One might even know that spores will germinate only once or twice before the death of the cell line.
this is where you're confused.
if you grow from spores, 99.9999999% the spores you recieve from ANY fruit will germinate and fruit just fine.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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wood chip
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: k00laid]
#14526334 - 05/28/11 12:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks for clearing it up. How did you figure that out? You might want to qualify what you are stating.
The rate of spore germination depends on many variables.
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k00laid
NEMO


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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14526351 - 05/28/11 12:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wood chip said: How did you figure that out?
ive only bought spores once. and have grown from the spores those fruits produced. and the spores those fruits produced and etc etc.
when you get spores you are at the starting point.
where that spore came from is only a little bit relevant.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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wood chip
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: k00laid]
#14526519 - 05/28/11 01:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I guess you lucked out and received one of the immortal strains.
But your way of thinking and contemplating the subject is "racist" in that you are assuming your single observation applies to the whole tribe. Fungi that grow all around the world in the right climate are very diverse. Your stain will likely mutate in time unless you hold it on a slant and quit aging the cell line.
I think your said percentage may be, unfortunately, over optimist, and something you randomly made up and stated as a fact. Even for your immortal stain grown in the most pristine conditions.
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fngbronco
Monkey Man



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Posts: 2,877
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14526568 - 05/28/11 02:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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If anything growing from spores grown in that one environment will domesticate the strain for those growin conditions. It's adaptation and happens all the time. In theory the fruits grown indoors should produce and pass on genes that are better suited for those conditions.
-------------------- I challenge you to challenge yourself more! When you feel complacent and ready to hang it up, challenge yourself to get over it! If you fail, don't look at it as you didn't succeed, look at it as you would a rock face you're trying to climb. Stand back, wayyyy back, and look at it and plot another path. If you can't find one, shuffle down the way a little, a little change of scenery or a view from a different angle may give you the insight you need. Anything I state is relayed information from a friend of a friend and should be viewed as completely fictitious. I do not partake in any illegal or grey-area-of-the-law activities, but do have lots of friends who may or may not. -fngbronco Pill Divider Agar Tek
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k00laid
NEMO


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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14526833 - 05/28/11 04:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wood chip said: I guess you lucked out and received one of the immortal strains.
holy shit. i just got trolled hard, huh.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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wood chip
Stranger

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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: k00laid]
#14528332 - 05/28/11 09:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Actually your "trolling" and contributed mostly false information as pointed out. "I guess you lucked out and received one of the immortal strains"
If your cultivation experience has been like this, why do you look at my quote as trolling? It is an accurate statement about what you said your experience has been. Anyone who obtains a strain that breeds true forever is very lucky if sending it off in mass cell division to obtain spores. Not saying it is impossible but it is unusual. I would recommend you try to keep that strain on a slant so as not to risk loosing it. How many cycles have you run it so far?
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fngbronco
Monkey Man



Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 2,877
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14528736 - 05/28/11 11:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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If what you say is true then mushrooms around the world must be endangered!
-------------------- I challenge you to challenge yourself more! When you feel complacent and ready to hang it up, challenge yourself to get over it! If you fail, don't look at it as you didn't succeed, look at it as you would a rock face you're trying to climb. Stand back, wayyyy back, and look at it and plot another path. If you can't find one, shuffle down the way a little, a little change of scenery or a view from a different angle may give you the insight you need. Anything I state is relayed information from a friend of a friend and should be viewed as completely fictitious. I do not partake in any illegal or grey-area-of-the-law activities, but do have lots of friends who may or may not. -fngbronco Pill Divider Agar Tek
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psyeye
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: fngbronco]
#14529289 - 05/29/11 03:02 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nooooooooo o o o oo oo
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SKrink
KING MOB


Registered: 01/29/11
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14530106 - 05/29/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wood chip said: something you randomly made up and stated as a fact.
OP, where is your evidence to back up your claims? So far you have been staunchly fighting for your own random untested hypothesis... Good for you for sticking to your guns, but as the saying goes: where's the cream fillin'?
"if this, then this, YES IT IS TRUE" isn't very convincing.
--------------------
SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES
HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB
... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: SKrink]
#14530480 - 05/29/11 12:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Omg this is the worst thread ever! Wood chip quit trolling and do more reading. Your facts are unfounded and way off base. I cant read this conspiracy theory whacko thread anymore.
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
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wood chip
Stranger

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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: Wing]
#14536028 - 05/30/11 01:26 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
fngbronco said: If what you say is true then mushrooms around the world must be endangered!
Mushrooms as a group are not endangered. Mushrooms are evolving. By that I mean a single "species" will become more diverse by anastomoses,mutation, and spore crossings creating new and novel stains. A stain that does not change over time is rare unless it is hibernating on a slant. In time, strains can diverge enough to be viewed as substains or in time new species. A general biological observation of all life.
Fungi happen to mutate very quick which makes them an incredibly diverse group. A species is kind of an interesting concept in that only a few stains are studied It is also why commercial stains of "know by experimental observation" are preserved on slants. This makes mutation by cell division infrequent. The actual question of this thread, which was never even close to being debated, was related to chosen slants for spore generation. All spores are not created equal and vary widely.
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k00laid
NEMO


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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14537823 - 05/30/11 08:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
wood chip said: was related to chosen slants for spore generation. All spores are not created equal and vary widely.
yes they do.
good thing vendors dont grow from spores then huh.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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wygram
Myconaut

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 573
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14538099 - 05/30/11 09:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
wood chip said: Most stains grown over and over (a spawn run with lots of cell divisions) mutate over time usually for the worst. Are the clones of these Agaricus stains, from the store, so much weaker than the mother spawn just because of a single run through compost.
You just answered your own question.
Quote:
wood chip said: Why do commercial "Agaricus bisporus group" spawn producers often use stains isolated many years ago and held on slants? These advanced strain crossers and world wide isolaters of new wild Agaricus mushrooms must know the answer, unfortunately there are very secretive.
If you have several close species of a mushroom and one was clearly superior in performance would you sell it and allow the strain to be freely amplified? No commercial operation would allow this.
There is no conspiracy to hold down "new" strains of commercial mushrooms. Most commercial strains are old and well-known because for mushroom farms to stake their livelyhood on an unproven strain is dumb.
As to the point about not allowing the best strains to be freely available is moot. Most commercial strains of mushrooms are widely available and can be purchased by the general public.
-------------------- Changing your mind is one of the best ways of finding out whether or not you still have one.
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afrosheen
9Lives the cat



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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wygram]
#14538272 - 05/30/11 10:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Most commercial strains of mushrooms are widely available and can be purchased by the general public.
Not only that but it's possible to buy some commercial mushrooms fresh, spore print them or sample the tissue, then work up from agar.
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wood chip
Stranger

Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 210
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wygram]
#14538347 - 05/30/11 10:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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There is no conspiracy to hold down "new" strains of commercial mushrooms.
True. There is no conspiracy or the suggestion of one. A company being secret with patented science does not does not equal conspiracy. They openly admit they are secretive. A conspiracy would make it look like they were something else than they are. This is not the case.
However, Are you suggesting Amycel can purchase all of Sylvans Agaricus strains?
I disagree with you if you actually believe this.
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fngbronco
Monkey Man



Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 2,877
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14538578 - 05/30/11 11:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Anyone can purchase anything. It's all about money and royalties. Watch Food, Inc. you'll learn how agriculture works.
-------------------- I challenge you to challenge yourself more! When you feel complacent and ready to hang it up, challenge yourself to get over it! If you fail, don't look at it as you didn't succeed, look at it as you would a rock face you're trying to climb. Stand back, wayyyy back, and look at it and plot another path. If you can't find one, shuffle down the way a little, a little change of scenery or a view from a different angle may give you the insight you need. Anything I state is relayed information from a friend of a friend and should be viewed as completely fictitious. I do not partake in any illegal or grey-area-of-the-law activities, but do have lots of friends who may or may not. -fngbronco Pill Divider Agar Tek
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 3,293
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14538667 - 05/30/11 11:54 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
If the spores of weak stains are germinated the resulting cultures will be weak.
False. If a man has never been athletic and has chronic back pain, the sperm he releases that may eventually fertilize an egg may produce an athlete. If the man's family has a high rate of cancer, it doesn't mean his offspring will.
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This leads to a situation in which the vendor may intentionally produce weak spores because one cannot propagate them very long (unless they save the first isolate on a slant which would still be weak) and it will likely be slightly weaker than the strain used by the vendor do make spores.
Do your own friggin' isolate! You think a ms syringe is gonna produce as well as a fresh isolate? And as stated before, a man's sperm (or in this case a fruits spores) aren't going to mirror the fruit it came from. Your weak strain theory is wrong.
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If one is selling spores and wants someone to be dependent on reordering, they could easily take a weak stain and put it on a slant for the purpose of making sure a strong strains spores are not sold which has a greater diversity and the possibility of generating large numbers of high quality stains.
If you want "perfect" results your going to have to do the work on agar and test or stuff and find what u want. Again, your weak strain theory is flawed.
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The time of spore germination (or weak slant culture start up) to fruit body (minus the hibernation time) is usually not given to the spore consumer. Why?
Because spores are supposed to be used for study, not cultivation. That's illegal! 
There are variables as to when/where spores would germinate
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This is not a flame, but a question in regards to weather this type of practice occurs or if the theory itself has holes in it.
I think your theory has holes in it. 
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ..... rrrrrrr ... rrr ... r
Here man, you left all these r's out of "strain" in this thread.
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
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wood chip
Stranger

Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 210
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: Wing]
#14540982 - 05/31/11 02:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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fngbronco said: Anyone can purchase anything. It's all about money and royalties. Watch Food, Inc. you'll learn how agriculture works.
Well, not anyone, they have to be very rich. Monsanto is a good example.
As and example in the mushroom world of high dollar strains, there exist the new GM Agriucs bisporus. Peter Romaine has patented this technology Anyone think they will produce spores? Couple of links https://sites.google.com/a/psu.edu/curtislab/research-projects/mushrooms http://www.physorg.com/news114697498.html
I doubt any large agaricus spawn company will sell mother cultures in the traditional way. Sure they have a price but it is not something anyone would pay unless they wanted to purchase the company.
Strains are one of the most important aspects in the success or failure of a mushroom farm
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afrosheen
9Lives the cat



Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 1,878
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14541947 - 05/31/11 06:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Waiting for RR to chime in and pwn.
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14541997 - 05/31/11 06:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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ok so why the fuck wasnt this just posted simply before.
PE doesnt drop spores but no one just HAS to keep buying spores of that.
lern2cultureslant
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wood chip said: Peter Romaine has patented this technology Anyone think they will produce spores? Couple of links https://sites.google.com/a/psu.edu/curtislab/research-projects/mushrooms http://www.physorg.com/news114697498.htmlm
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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fngbronco
Monkey Man



Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 2,877
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: k00laid]
#14543146 - 05/31/11 10:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Glad you popped back in k00laid!
-------------------- I challenge you to challenge yourself more! When you feel complacent and ready to hang it up, challenge yourself to get over it! If you fail, don't look at it as you didn't succeed, look at it as you would a rock face you're trying to climb. Stand back, wayyyy back, and look at it and plot another path. If you can't find one, shuffle down the way a little, a little change of scenery or a view from a different angle may give you the insight you need. Anything I state is relayed information from a friend of a friend and should be viewed as completely fictitious. I do not partake in any illegal or grey-area-of-the-law activities, but do have lots of friends who may or may not. -fngbronco Pill Divider Agar Tek
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Feelers
Anti-Myth-Rhythm-Rock-Shocker



Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 1,806
Loc: Land of Oz
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: fngbronco]
#14544937 - 06/01/11 09:16 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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The reason commercial culture slants are so expensive is because the people who found the strain did so by germinating thousands of spores, and grew them out individually to find the strain that did the best. Small margins on final product can have a huge affect in terms of agricultural use. When you buy a $450 slant you are buying a mycelial clone from high up the "cell division ladder". Otherwise you would be able to clone the button mushrooms from shops and make a go of it.
Even mushroom farms don't keep generating spores from the best fruits, they just find a great strain(spore isolate) and keep with it. This would indicate that while like begets like, it's no match for clone = clone. For a spore vendor to waste their time on such a momentous task would A, be stupid, and B, frivolous. If selling Cubensis culture slants was legal there is no doubt in my mind that someone would sell cultures of the strongest ones.
I'd say those GM mushrooms will make spores, because they'd have a very difficult time removing this ability.
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wood chip
Stranger

Registered: 02/22/09
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Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: Feelers]
#14550716 - 06/02/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
For a spore vendor to waste their time on such a momentous task would A, be stupid, and B, frivolous
It is no exactly momentous to hold a strain on a slant and to have previous experimental knowledge as to how it will perform in regards to spore formation and the resultant diversity of new strains generated from spore crossing. All spores generated from a single slant behave similar each time they are brought into existence. I would think the random shuffle at meiosis changes each time but only within certain learned by experimental observation. Does this make sense?
I am not stating vendor do this or all vendors are the same, I am asking a question.
But, it seems like someone could do this who worked out the techniques, and if they wanted, l the spores could be consistently generated from very high quality or low quality stains by choice.
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SKrink
KING MOB


Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 1,042
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14551699 - 06/02/11 04:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
wood chip said: I am not stating vendor do this or all vendors are the same, I am asking a question.
But, it seems like someone could do this who worked out the techniques, and if they wanted, l the spores could be consistently generated from very high quality or low quality stains by choice.
"someone" indeed. Did you mean to write SWIM? Freudian slip alert! "if they wanted, I... could"
hehe
--------------------
SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES
HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB
... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#14552179 - 06/02/11 06:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
wood chip said: All spores generated from a single slant behave similar each time they are brought into existence. Does this make sense?
yes whats your point.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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conifer2000
Stranger
Registered: 03/30/11
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Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: wood chip]
#15749029 - 02/01/12 08:19 PM (12 years, 9 hours ago) |
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check out Kerrigans (Sylvan Inc) new sporeless Agaricus PATENT WO 2012/008969 A1 they are working with Romaines transgenic mushroom strains................. go figure
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maug


Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 1,703
Loc: inside you
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Re: weak strians and the spores they produce [Re: conifer2000]
#15749128 - 02/01/12 08:36 PM (12 years, 9 hours ago) |
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-------------------- I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less distraction. -Calvin and Hobbes
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