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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: Icelander]
    #14542261 - 05/31/11 07:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ah ok.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: xFrockx]
    #14542281 - 05/31/11 07:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup: Now we're communicating.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: Icelander]
    #14542791 - 05/31/11 09:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:lol:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: Mufungo]
    #14551364 - 06/02/11 03:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:
:lol: I've already answered the question once in this thread already, I can't help it if some people are slow on the uptake.


Just because I missed that doesn't mean I'm "slow on the uptake".


Quote:

Mufungo said:
Love your "logic" (or lack thereof). Do you believe in "God"? Have you read the bible from cover to cover? Does anyone who claims not to believe in god have to read the bible in order to have any credibility when they deny god's existence?


Anyone who claims to know about the God in the bible and who hasn't read it has no credibility when making claims about the God in the bible.


Quote:

Mufungo said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Mufungo said:
I do think there is an unconscious, however I was curious about how you were supporting your statement of there being unconscious anxiety present when the person isn't conscious of it.


Probably in a similar manner to how you support your belief that there is a such thing as an unconscious mind.





And what "manner" is that exactly?


Why are you asking me? You should know the manner in which you support your belief that there is a such thing as an unconscious mind.



Quote:

Mufungo said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Mufungo said:
The way you talk about distractions being a shield seems to presuppose that your fear of dying is ever-present somewhere in the mind even when you're not conscious of it (which I understand is a major part of the theory). So how do you know that? Are you basing that idea on an observation of your mind returning to a particular thought you wanted to distract yourself from? How do you know that your mind didn't momentarily forget entirely about death and anxiety while you were distracted, but due to habitual thought patterns your mind "returned" to those thoughts due to a sort of psychological homeostasis that is based upon your cognitive schemas?


Because of the way it motivates practically all of our behaviors..read Denial of Death if you haven't, then get back to me.





Yep, the ol' "I can't support my own arguments so I'll hide behind a book and refuse to attempt to support my arguments until the book is read by you" trick. Try again...


I never said that I can't support my own arguments..if you think my claim here that death anxiety motivates practically all of our behaviors is false, then why don't you rebut it? This is a debate forum you know.


Quote:

Mufungo said:
How do you know that this mystical "death anxiety" motivates all your behaviours?  ...because Becker told you so, and then you looked for and found supporting "evidence"?


Huh? The evidence is in the book..how about you try to actually rebut my claim?


Quote:

Mufungo said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Mufungo said:
I am arguing that the fear is only there while you are thinking of specific undesirable thoughts that you've associated with death, and this association could still potentially show up, even unconsciously, when primed with mortality salient cues because it's consistent with your cognitive schemas around death.


That is because you are unaware of the aspect of the theory which explains how many of our behaviors are apparently motivated by an unconscious fear of death.





And you are assuming my ignorance of the theory how exactly? What, because I can disagree with the theory behind "death anxiety" and provide better explanations for the phenomena explained with "death anxiety"?


Better explanations? You just provided alternative explanations..basically, you're saying "Death anxiety is bullshit because it might not be true.". That is fucking retarded.


Quote:

Mufungo said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Mufungo said:
It is difficult to prove that the anxiety is there when we're not conscious of it.


No it isn't, considering the manner in which it influences our conscious behaviors.





You maybe taking a "tail wagging the dog" approach with the way you think the evidence supports the theory of "death anxiety", especially when you don't consider other explanations for the presence of the phenomena that TMT has tried to make scientific.


Who said I don't consider those explanations?


Quote:

Mufungo said:
If you start with assuming the theory is correct, then you're likely succumbing to confirmation bias and looking for evidence to support the theory while ignoring evidence which suggests the theory is erroneous.


I agree..good thing I'm not doing this.


Quote:

Mufungo said:
My point all along is that there are better explanations which preclude "death anxiety" and that other theories, in particular cognitive theories and theories of learned behaviour, more adequately explain the phenomena that is attempted to be explained with "death anxiety".


How are those explanations better?


Quote:

Mufungo said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Mufungo said:
It's just as likely that when you've distracted yourself, the anxiety has disappeared completely until the next time you think about it again or when you're primed by specific environmental cues to be aware of it.


It would be if there wasn't a load of examples of how death anxiety motivates our actions.





See, this is a nice example of confirmation bias in action. Thanks for illustrating it to us all.


How is that an example of confirmation bias? There is a load of evidence in support of death anxiety, I'm not claiming that it is necessarily true just because it is backed up by loads of evidence.


Quote:

Mufungo said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Mufungo said:
If you choose to not debate any further, perhaps death anxiety would be better relegated to the mysticism forum.


Yeah, a psychological concept with loads of evidence and books in support of it is more appropriate for the Spirituality & Mysticism forum than for the Philosophy, Sociology, & Psychology forum. :rolleyes:


Read the book if you haven't already, your reading it would definitely improve the quality of our discussions on this topic. :thumbup:




:lol: My comments were in reference to Icelander saying "If you don't think it's a valid idea and the many posts and threads over the last couple of years here have left you unconvinced then ignore it.  I can live with that." Which I interpreted to mean that he had given up trying to convince me of his arguments, perhaps because he can't of just can't be bothered, either way, that sort of attitude belongs more in the mystical forum, don't you agree?


He said that because you rebut any of Becker's individual supporting evidences for death anxiety, all you did was, again, say "Death anxiety is bullshit because it might not be true.".


Quote:

Mufungo said:
So far I've never seen a convincing argument put forth in this forum in favour of "death anxiety" which can't just as easily be explained and explained better by other psychological theories.


Yet I've never seen you actually rebut any specific evidence in support of death anxiety that is provided in Becker's book.


Quote:

Mufungo said:
When I have to put faith in a phenomena because it is unconscious and then the lack of presence of the unconscious phenomena is supported by other imaginary phenomena like "buffer systems", it smells badly of BS and it's time to get out Ockham's razor.


You don't need to put faith in it because there is a lot of evidence in support of it.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: Poid]
    #14554301 - 06/03/11 05:18 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I have, its definitely an uneasy thought at times, but all things end. On to the next step.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: Enjoywho]
    #14555136 - 06/03/11 11:30 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enjoywho said:
I have, its definitely an uneasy thought at times, but all things end. On to the next step.




What's your next step?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: Kickle]
    #14558850 - 06/04/11 04:26 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Dunno, I'm still figuring out this one.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


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Offlinedetest86
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: Enjoywho]
    #14766151 - 07/14/11 02:16 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

the next step is decomposing in the soil


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: detest86]
    #14766181 - 07/14/11 02:27 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Death anxiety is conditional based on a given situation. No one can be completely passed it. 

If you are in the forest and a wild hungry grizzly bear comes charging at you, most people will have extreme death anxiety.

No one can be completely free of it, however it wont be a constant sense in regular everyday thoughts.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: PatrickKn]
    #14766864 - 07/14/11 09:12 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

you guys realize this death anxiety thing is crazy, right? JUST CHILL


--------------------
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drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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Offline4896744
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: g00ru]
    #14767269 - 07/14/11 11:05 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
you guys realize this death anxiety thing is crazy, right? JUST CHILL




It is much more sane to believe in things you see/think of while tripping. :yesnod:


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:


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InvisibleNihilisticDelusion
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: 4896744]
    #14767289 - 07/14/11 11:10 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I need to pop an Ativan now.


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Offlinegaidzag
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: xFrockx]
    #14768179 - 07/14/11 02:47 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You dont have to be scared of something as natural as death.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: gaidzag]
    #14768185 - 07/14/11 02:48 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If everything is natural then you should be fearless. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: Icelander]
    #14768374 - 07/14/11 03:33 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

What isn't natural?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: xFrockx]
    #14768399 - 07/14/11 03:39 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Nothing, that's my point. To say we shouldn't fear death because it's natural begs the question of why we should then have any fear at all.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinegaidzag
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: Icelander]
    #14769423 - 07/14/11 07:45 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

We fear for our own safety which is fine. Its funny cuz i fear drive bys, getting murdered, or drowning but i dont fear death...i must be crazy  :crazy2:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: gaidzag]
    #14769640 - 07/14/11 08:38 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

if making no sense makes one crazy then, yes.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinegaidzag
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: xFrockx]
    #14770626 - 07/15/11 12:24 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

How does it not make sense? I fear getting shot or drowning but not the experience of death...i wouldnt say im antsy to die or anything but i know death is gonna be one hell of a trip, in my mind at least.


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Offlinegaidzag
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Re: anyone move past death anxiety? [Re: xFrockx]
    #14770648 - 07/15/11 12:31 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
"But the fact remains we feel separate and have fear of death."

I still don't know what we are fearing if we are fearing death. To fear death is to assume one knows something about it.





I think you hit the nail on the head with that one.


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