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Gigabyt3r
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Registered: 05/24/11
Posts: 58
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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What is LC used for? 1
#14509006 - 05/25/11 09:38 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I followed the tutorial and it all looks fine and dandy, but what are the mycelium for? Does it speed up the process? If so, how? How are the used in regards to the PF tek? I don't really understand what you do with it then?
Wow thats alot of questions! Thanks in advance
-------------------- "Ummm, you have to be a run-of-the-mill dipshit to use popcorn as your substrate, and sterilize it in the microwave" <3 Shiitake's
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Perun
Mahapralaya...



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 585
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Re: What is LC used for? [Re: Gigabyt3r] 1
#14509028 - 05/25/11 09:45 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Mycelium can be cultured in a liquid (as opposed to a solid like vermiculite/brown rice flour) which you can then use to easily inoculate substrate and start mycelium growth much faster than if you were using spores.
But...LC is a "two bladed sword" you dont know what are you growing untill you test it!
Try this...its much better then any sugar based LC!
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=30&Number=6817701&fpart=&PHPSESSID=
-------------------- First: Then:
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runepanther
Im uhh gee!


Registered: 05/17/11
Posts: 89
Loc: East ATL, GA
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Re: What is LC used for? [Re: Gigabyt3r] 1
#14509029 - 05/25/11 09:46 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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LC's are basically spore syringes in an advanced stage. It will let the myc spread and colonize much quicker, as it doesnt have to wait to get out of the spore stage. You can use about the same amount of LC as spores in the PF tek. Myc is what would grow if you just dropped spores in the jars... Next time look up what its for before you go about making it and all... Might save you some time in unnecessary things. But in this case the LC will be very useful
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Re: What is LC used for? [Re: Gigabyt3r] 2
#14509130 - 05/25/11 10:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gigabyt3r said: I followed the tutorial and it all looks fine and dandy, but what are the mycelium for? Does it speed up the process? If so, how? How are the used in regards to the PF tek? I don't really understand what you do with it then?
Wow thats alot of questions! Thanks in advance
Mostly, LC used by noobs to impress other noobs with how much green mold they can grow. I know of exactly zero experienced users who will get anywhere near a liquid culture. It's a waste of time and energy which results in an extremely high contamination rate.
To make matters worse, you don't even know it's contaminated until all that time is wasted and you use it to inoculate your grains or cakes, resulting in even more failure. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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DRCola



Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 134
Loc: USA
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Hello,
I am simply posting a 10th post on this new thread so I may read the link shown above.
Thanks!
-------------------- Do you need small amounts of high quality Tyvek (sell or trade)? P.M. me!
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slapphappypill
Enthusiast!




Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 5,570
Loc: In bed with your mom
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
Gigabyt3r said: I followed the tutorial and it all looks fine and dandy, but what are the mycelium for? Does it speed up the process? If so, how? How are the used in regards to the PF tek? I don't really understand what you do with it then?
Wow thats alot of questions! Thanks in advance
Mostly, LC used by noobs to impress other noobs with how much green mold they can grow. I know of exactly zero experienced users who will get anywhere near a liquid culture. It's a waste of time and energy which results in an extremely high contamination rate.
To make matters worse, you don't even know it's contaminated until all that time is wasted and you use it to inoculate your grains or cakes, resulting in even more failure. RR
I have to disagree with you Mister Rabbit... I've been using PC since I first started without a single contamination using LC! every one of my cakes has been done with LC and I have never gotten a single contamination! I see those more off of spore syringes than anything else! You know better than anyone else that what works for some doesn't work for others
I've never gotten anything to fruit on rye, yet wbs works perfect. I tried your grain prep method and if I let the steam evap. Off the wbs, it gets too dry and doesn't colonize. If I leave the wbs wet, it colonized perfect in 1-2 weeks.
My point is, some people can whip up a mad crazy LC every time and always get perfect results. Some can't. Don't tell someone not to try something just because it didn't work dlfor you.
And yes, test you PC on a single jar before using it on 50
(PS RR: I never got a response from you when you knocked my tall 1/2 punt and full pint jars)
-------------------- We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze.... FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly! I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably! ~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~ ~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~ ~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~
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total
Post Office Tyvek Advocator




Registered: 10/03/04
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I have to disagree with RR as well...  Just because YOU dont use that method, doesnt mean it doesnt work...
I've been doing this for 10 years, so i consider myself an experienced grower...And have used LC's to extend my last bit of spores...
And as a matter of fact, i used to use agar's baby bottle tek along time ago... You calling my man agar a n00b RR? 
(You say that no experienced grower would use a LC due to a high contam risk? I say they arent an experienced grower if they cant grow a clean LC )
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slapphappypill
Enthusiast!




Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 5,570
Loc: In bed with your mom
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Re: What is LC used for? [Re: total] 1
#14509585 - 05/25/11 12:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
total said: (You say that no experienced grower would use a LC due to a high contam risk? I say they arent an experienced grower if they cant grow a clean LC )

oh and:
LC =
-------------------- We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze.... FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly! I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably! ~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~ ~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~ ~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~
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Spector
Just Disappeared

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 167
Loc: A Scientific Location....
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Re: What is LC used for? [Re: total] 1
#14509674 - 05/25/11 12:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
total said: (You say that no experienced grower would use a LC due to a high contam risk? I say they arent an experienced grower if they cant grow a clean LC )

Haters gonna hate.
good job guys.  (this post is not to provoke a response, I just totally Agree)
Edited by Spector (05/25/11 01:15 PM)
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total
Post Office Tyvek Advocator




Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: What is LC used for? [Re: Spector] 1
#14509774 - 05/25/11 12:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I didnt say any of that to insult anyone... I was just sayin'... A LC is a very straight forward and simple thing... If you can successfully innoc a cake/grain jar, you should be able to get a LC jar going...
Most new growers dont have access to agar or more advanced techniques right off the bat, so the methods of duplicating that vendor syringe are few and far between...
But seriously RR... Keep the hate away! I can link you to TC's that use LC's, that you guys appointed as "Knowledgeable and Experienced Growers" 
Go and so you can come back
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slapphappypill
Enthusiast!




Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 5,570
Loc: In bed with your mom
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Re: What is LC used for? [Re: Spector] 1
#14509777 - 05/25/11 12:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Not sure if it was fully answered or not as It seems the other answers are still a little vague. A Liquid Culture (LC) is simply the spores after they start to grow mycelium. Normally you can make an LC with honey water 3-5% ratio pretty easy as that is what I use.
My ONLY issue with LC EVER has been using spores to LC. Sometimes they just don't germinate. and you need to make a new jar. I counter this by making up 3 QT jars of half full LC, and inoculating all three with spores or LC. Then test 3 jars, and 4 days after I see healthy growth with no contams, I knock up the rest of my jars.
-------------------- We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze.... FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly! I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably! ~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~ ~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~ ~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~
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jimmy8
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Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 48
Loc: UK
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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I assume RR is referring to professionals as in people who grow mushrooms on a large scale for money. In other words, they can't afford to be spending time testing LCs or risking any unnecessary contamination. I think the fact that RR awarded several people with the TC tag even though he obviously doesn't agree with their methods, is proof enough that he doesn't discriminate. Everyone has a different viewpoint.
I think he speaks so harshly because you can't see what's growing in the LC, so you don't know if your jars are going to get contaminated after inoculation. Regardless of your 99.9% success rate, you can never be sure. I bet even RR and Agar mess up every now and again, so assuming your LC is going to be clean just because it has been every other time prior is a little presumptuous.
However, if you test your LC on a single jar first, that makes things a little less of a crap shoot. You still have to wait for that jar to grow out to test if the LC is clear though.
Just my 20p. I'd be much more comfortable siding with the underdog, but grain LCs are the bomb. If you're an "experienced cultivator" you surely have plenty of spare grain jars around?
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slapphappypill
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Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 5,570
Loc: In bed with your mom
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Re: What is LC used for? [Re: jimmy8] 1
#14509904 - 05/25/11 01:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I do grain LC as well, but I do Grain LC to honey LC for expansion.
I am also starting my own mushroom farm and will be using multiple methods of grain inoculation including: g2g, LC, agar, GLC. There are different reasons for me doing all 4 at different times depending on my needs at the time.
-------------------- We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze.... FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly! I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably! ~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~ ~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~ ~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Glad to provoke a response. 
However, if one is going to wait for colonization twice to three times as long for a sugar/karo water with spores injected, as it takes for grains to colonize, and then wait for a test jar to colonize and test, what's the point? During that amount of time you could have colonized a truckload of grains. In addition, you know with grains if they're good or not before you do a transfer. You have no such assurance with liquid culture, especially one made from squirting spore solution in to it.
For those who have never had contamination, all I can do is . With my experience, laminar flow hood, lab suits, gloves, masks, etc., I can make no such claim. I still see contamination from time to time. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Ajm
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Registered: 08/03/10
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Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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I have a Sugar In The Raw LC in colonization stage currently. Colonization of contam, mycelium, or perhaps none, who knows. It was inoculated a little under 24 hours ago with 2ml of B+ MS. From your experience how long does it take to see visible growth, with an MS inoculation, in LC?
-------------------- " Life is just a ride " --Bill Hicks
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: What is LC used for? [Re: Ajm] 1
#14510321 - 05/25/11 03:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ajm said: From your experience how long does it take to see visible growth, with an MS inoculation, in LC?
I hope that questions wasn't directed to RR. If it was 
If not, germination times are about the same as when you inoculate cakes assuming the inoculant is viable and the LC was made properly
--------------------
Quick WBS Prep
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Ajm
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Re: What is LC used for? [Re: FooMan] 1
#14510394 - 05/25/11 03:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
FooMan said:
Quote:
Ajm said: From your experience how long does it take to see visible growth, with an MS inoculation, in LC?
I hope that questions wasn't directed to RR. If it was 
If not, germination times are about the same as when you inoculate cakes assuming the inoculant is viable and the LC was made properly
It does appear like that. I just meant in general. RR's probably like get outta here dude. Anyways thanks for the reply bro.
-------------------- " Life is just a ride " --Bill Hicks
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slapphappypill
Enthusiast!




Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 5,570
Loc: In bed with your mom
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You can roll your eyes when I say that, but I've never had a contaminated LC. I've seen no growth, but never contams *knock on wood*.
As far as LC goes, it does take longer initially, however once you have a good LC going, you can extend it real far and fly through inoculating qt jars without G2g. I flame sterilize my needle once before getting the LC, once after, then I only use alcohol in between each jar.
And honestly not a single contam ever. Not one 1/2 pint, pint, or QT jar has seen contam'd LC.
Only spore syringes have caused me problems so I start spores on agar now, then take the agar chunk to LC
-------------------- We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze.... FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly! I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably! ~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~ ~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~ ~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~
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slapphappypill
Enthusiast!




Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 5,570
Loc: In bed with your mom
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Re: What is LC used for? [Re: FooMan] 1
#14510548 - 05/25/11 03:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
FooMan said:
Quote:
Ajm said: From your experience how long does it take to see visible growth, with an MS inoculation, in LC?
I hope that questions wasn't directed to RR. If it was 
If not, germination times are about the same as when you inoculate cakes assuming the inoculant is viable and the LC was made properly
Yeah, figure about 5-10 days before you can see growth in the LC, and 2 weeks before the LC is ready. I'll test my LC at 2 weeks, but let it sit for another week or so before I put into the fridge
-------------------- We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze.... FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly! I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably! ~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~ ~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~ ~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~
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Ajm
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Registered: 08/03/10
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Alright cool, thanks man
-------------------- " Life is just a ride " --Bill Hicks
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