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OfflinePrimal Call
Earth Mage
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Registered: 09/05/10
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Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting * 66
    #14508610 - 05/25/11 06:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hello Shroomery! :sunny::hi:

I often read of questions from growers trying to troubleshoot a particular problem specific to their grow with no luck from the search function, so I thought I’d write a post encompassing some of the common fruiting dilemmas and their respective solutions. :bliss:

For starters, my personal approach to fruiting timing/conditions with many :thanx: to all of you who knowingly and unknowingly became my mentors and gurus in establishing my relationship with these wonderful organisms. After that, we'll get into specific cause and effect troubleshooting.
Here we go!  :chase:

- When should we initiate fruiting? :popcorn:

The best approach I can recommend is patience and visual confirmation. That is to say we wait until the substrate tells us when to give it fresh air exchange (FAE) by revealing knots, primorida, and/or pins. This picture shows all three.

The knots are the tiny pearl-like orbs, the primordia are the earliest recognizable mushroom-like growths beginning to form stems and caps, and the pins are...the pins! :laugh2:
 
It's not as "cut and dry" as waiting some predetermined amount of time IMO. 10-14 days is assuredly a good guideline, but sometimes life happens faster or slower than we desire. I think we can all relate to this concept and so can the mushies! :amanita2: :hug:

Also, if we initiate fruiting when we think it "should" be ready, it will laugh at us (:hehehe: listen carefully) while it finishes consolidating the substrate as we begin wondering if it's ever going to pin. :confused2: So, ultimately, we end up waiting the same amount of time for it to do its thing.

Furthermore, I've noticed that the longer I leave a consolidating substrate in colonization conditions with the slightest amount of FAE, the more knots/primordia develop, which leads to (ideally) an even and expansive pinset. This was most spectacularly accomplished with a recent project where for the entire duration of colonization and consolidation (Check this out too!) (15 days total) the tub had all holes taped except two, which were stuffed as tightly as possible with polyfill. After 3 days of fruiting conditions, it looked like this...
which turned into this...

And at 5 days of fruiting conditions :sparta:

Here is the full grow log for those photos.

The factors affecting our colonization time include, but are not limited to, spawn ratio and health, ambient temperatures, GE/FAE, substrate ingredients, moisture content, and light. So maybe it will take 8 days and maybe it will take 20 days, but when the substrate is ready, we will know if we just watch & listen to it. Otherwise, leave it in :peace:!

- Fruiting Conditions and Pinning Strategy :wizard:

Light can and should be applied during all stages of growth. We want to use a 12/12 cycle of indirect, ambient light during the spawn and substrate colonization/consolidation periods and the same cycle but with direct 6500(K)elvin (blue/"daylight" spectrum) CFL bulbs during pinning & fruiting. (Here are some posts explaining this in greater detail.) Some users like LED's, but I have no experience with them.
The idea here is that we are using or imitating the natural light cycles of our beautiful planet. :earth: Also, try to keep the light directly above the fruiting chamber because of photosensitivity; they will grow toward the light! :mushroomgrow: (Air currents also play a part.)

Assuming you are fruiting a fully colonized/consolidated substrate, FAE, humidity, and evaporation from the substrate are the primary components involved in pinning/fruiting. How much you say? :confused:
These pinning triggers are all interconnected! :yinyang:

Many cultivators try to pick these components apart and say that one is more important than another, but this is simply insensible in my opinion. The moisture in the substrate is drawn out by the FAE, which creates the evaporation necessary and contributes to maintaining the humidity in the fruiting chamber while mimicking that tropical environment of origin. Kinda like a kinky love triangle, eh?! :3some: :lmafo:
As cronicr points out here, the surface humidity is the most important, but keeping it humid in an FC is also helpful.

Thus, get the FAE as high as possible, without sacrificing humidity (95+ for knot formation), until a desirable or maximum pinset is covering the substrate. Once the primorida/pins start looking more like maturing mushrooms with distinguishable stems & caps, it's acceptable to let the humidity drop a bit in favor of more FAE for the remaining duration of maturation. (Covered in more detail below, try lowering your temperature around this time as well! :grin:)

Personally, I try not to mist until the actual pins are formed as even something as soft as water drops can damage our little, fragile primordia. (Do not mist Pans!) After small pins form, however, I mist as much as I can (without creating pools of water on the substrate surface) to replenish the moisture going into fruitbody formation and keep a good humidity level in the chamber. (Proper Moisture - LotKid)The only difficulty here is in the act of balancing all these parts, which leads us to the troubleshooting section! :moogle:


edit: For some dunking/re-hydrating information after 1st flush harvests, go to page 5. :smile::bliss:

- Troubleshoot the fruit!  :cuddles:  Effect! Cause! Solution!

While the effects and solutions are of greater concern with regard to troubleshooting, I would truly appreciate confirmation/correction about the causes since I do not know the complete science involved. **Consider my "causes" educated guesses.**
In no particular order...

1.
Effect: "Fuzzy-feet" or fluffy stems happen when the mycelium seems to crawl up and surround the lower portions of the mushroom and even sometimes up to 50-60% of the stipe. It's not widely considered aesthetically pleasing, and it's one more thing to clean up after harvest. It won't harm you to eat it, but the chemical content is comparatively low.
Cause: (Edited per RR's chime in.) Stagnant or still air in the fruiting chamber is our culprit here.
Solution: More FAE is the easy fix. :thumbup:

2.
Effect: Prematurely opening or small caps and/or small mushrooms in general.
Cause: It is possible that with MS projects genetics have opted for small fruits, but more often this is a result of insufficient lighting or improper moisture content. I write improper because too much and too little water can dwarf our fruits. However, if we have too much water in the substrate, the mushrooms should look excessively glossy/slimy on the caps. Usually, though, too much water results in anaerobic contamination before we see a flush. For those of you who attribute a short substrate depth to small mushrooms, here's one for you. :tongue2:

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
The reason deeper substrates support larger flushes and fruits is because larger substrates hold more moisture.  If you give proper moisture control to small substrates, they will perform well too. 
RR




Solution: Check the light cycle and bulb rating. Be sure to have as close to 6500K as possible (mine is 5500K and it's fine) and perhaps buy a timer set to 10-14 hours on/14-10 hours off. If the moisture is low on the first flush, adjust your substrate recipe to include a bit more until you get it right (field capacity). You can buy a moisture gauge if you want, but with some experience you can measure appropriate moisture fairly accurately using the "squeeze test." (I do not own a moisture gauge.) For those projects where the moisture is low for the first flush and for those where it's perfect, a dunk for 6-24 hours will make for a better second flush.

3. Borrowing a picture here with thanks :smile:
Quote:

btb103 said:




Effect: Yellowing, blueing, or "bruising" substrate.
Cause: Stress! :bomb: This is caused by too much FAE and subsequent drying of the substrate, contaminates in the substrate, dropping your humidity gauge on your friends :uhoh:, direct/close proximity misting, or anything else you can imagine straining the substrate, which is pretty fragile (especially primordia.)
Solution: Take it easy!  :cool:  I would say the most common cause of this one is the excess FAE, so adjust that accordingly when you begin to see blue bruising, yellowing, etc. Don't try to reverse the drying out effect with extra misting. This often leads to a dense mat of mycelium on the surface discouraging primorida/pins from forming.

4. Borrowing again :grin:
Quote:

ChronicBarry said:
I believe the strain is Mazatapec.



Effect: Tall & skinny mushrooms.
Cause: This one is primarily attributed to excess CO2 levels at the substrate level. In an attempt to escape the suffocating circumstances, the mushrooms put most of their energy into growing taller looking for room to breathe. However, lacking light can also cause this one.
Solution: More FAE to displace the suffocating conditions and/or check your light cycle/rating.

5.
Effect: Hollow stems.
Cause: While cubensis is mostly considered a hollow-stemmed species and some varieties are more hollow than others, this "problem" can be attributed, at least partially, to high temperatures in the fruiting chamber.
Solution: Lower the temperatures in the fruiting chamber and surrounding area, and you will encourage thicker, dense stems to form. As a reminder, colder temperatures will also slow down the rate at which the mushrooms develop. But patience is good, remember?! :strokebeard2: Also, keep in mind that the substrate produces heat via thermogenesi, so it will always be a little warmer than the space above the substrate and outside the fruiting chamber. :dancer:

6. I don't have any cube pics for this one, but it doesn't matter.

Effect: Cracked caps.
Cause: Usually this is a sign of humidity levels below the desired parameters.
Solution: For monotubs, mist the walls of the fruiting chamber slightly more often, tighten your polyfill, or decrease FAE by a little if you are using a draft or fan. For SGFC users, you'll want to check the moisture of your perlite and re-moisten it, or add more as needed.
Here's a post showing the difference between cracked caps (shown above) and split caps, which is caused by rapid growth.
Solution: Try lowering your fruiting chamber temperature to slow them down.

7.Effect: Contamination :shakingfist::oldman2:
Cause: A wide variety of sources may be at the heart of this one. It could be that our spawn was holding potentially unseen contaminates, say, a minor bacterial infection. If the mycelium has to fight bacteria while trying to colonize, it will exact energy to these multiple tasks. As a result, the rate of colonization is slowed and/or the mycelium is weakened, similar to us when we have a cold or flu. Contamination of the substrate could also be related to the spawn ratio used in the sense that if the ratio is low, it will take longer to colonize the substrate thus increasing the amount of time for ever-present contaminates to develop a hold on the nutrients.
Solution: There are some broad-reaching tactics that can significantly reduce contamination rates of spawn such as cleaning surfaces and air prior to inoculating, flame sterilizing between inoculations/transfers or creating lids with proper filters and injection ports, etc. Collectively, these skills are referred to as sterile technique/procedure and are of utmost importance when considering contamination and its source. Good sterile technique coupled with a laminar flowhood (LFH), glove box, or still-air box is the ideal.
As far as contamination in a substrate, I can attest that a properly pasteurized substrate mixed with healthy spawn has a very low likelihood of contaminating. And no, I won't let you blame it on the coffee. :evil2: The best thing to do is be as clean as possible with your hands, breathing, tools, and the surrounding area/air when you spawn your tubs/cakes. Close windows, cough/sneeze into your sleeve, don't play with your dog then use your bare hands to mix spawn and substrate, and make it quick! If you take your sweet time to mix your projects together, you hypothetically increase the amount of mold spores falling into your tubs. However, a cleaning routine need not be as vigorous for spawning compared to inoculating.

In an attempt to give more contaminate-specific information, I'm adding photos and as much information as possible and/or necessary in future updates. Stay tuned!
:otd:

Hidden Contams - Mad Season <--- Really, start there :awesome: Then if you still feel like reading, proceed.
Here's another awesome one from Munchauzen.

Bacillus

I've struggled with this contaminate more than any other. I often thought I had clean spawn only to proudly post pictures (like the ones above) and have more experienced growers tell me my jars were bacterial.
Also known as wetspot, this one shows on the bottom left and bottom right of the jar on the left. The moisture has a particular glistening to it, hence the common name, and it is usually on or around grains rather than on the jar/bag itself. It looks strikingly similar to humidity for those unfamiliar with it. (The top of the jar on the left is humidity.)
After playing with filters, lids, sterilization techniques (in the PC and the inoculation room), I figured out I was simply over-hydrating my grains. There are plenty of grain preparation teks out there, but I've finally got my method down, and I've not had Bacillus since. I'm not saying you can't get wetspot for other reasons, but cutting back my cook time solved it for me. If in doubt about your grain moisture, soak and/or cook for less time.
I've spawned plenty of jars with minor Bacillus infections into properly pasteurized substrates and gotten anywhere from 1-3 flushes. The safe recommendation is, of course, not to spawn them at all, but if you are willing to risk it, my personal recommendation is to only flush once or twice.

Trichoderma :mad2:


Cobweb


Yeasts

Usually yeast shows as white dots, but these pink ones are the only thing similar I've ever confronted. This is the only yeast (or similar?) I've ever seen for that matter. I spawned these with no problems, and you can see the log including photos of the mycelium eating through/around the yeasts here. I think if the dots were covering more grains, I'd have tossed them. And, again, the safest recommendation is to get rid of any jars with contaminants rather than spawning them.

I think I've covered enough for now. This came out to be quite lengthy!
I hope it is helpful for some of you and please critique, rate, and correct as necessary! I'll update this OP with anything else I might be forgetting because of sleep deprivation or with anything of importance someone adds as this receives some more attention.

Good luck to any of you troubleshooting, and, as always, I wish all of you well!     
:hi5:    :mushdance:    :shoppingcart:      :respect:    :kenthumbup:

:peace::peace::peace::plur::peace::peace::peace:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

Edited by Primal Call (12/17/17 03:39 PM)

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Invisibleshroomiin
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Posts: 2,470
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 2
    #14508668 - 05/25/11 07:18 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

awesome post man. I am currently waiting on a tub. It's been colonizing for about 7 or 8 days now, and the surface has "looked" 100% for about 3 or 4 days now.

It has knots and primidora forming, but upon looking at the bottom of the tub, it doesnt seem 100% but i could be wrong. (i left the sides uncovered, i plan on taping it.)

how long would you wait?

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: shroomiin] * 3
    #14508679 - 05/25/11 07:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

hey thanks! :smile:

You're saying you got to a 100% fully white surface in 3 or 4 days? High spawn ratio? Small project? I see you mentioned the bottom might(?) not be done...

Most consider the appropriate consolidation time 3-7 days after 100% colonization. But like I mentioned above, when you see massive amounts of knots, primordia, or actual pins popping up, it's ready.

At the longest guideline, I would say 20-25 days after your spawn date. If you don't see some form of fruit coming up, something is probably wrong.


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

Edited by Primal Call (05/26/11 01:28 AM)

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Invisibleshroomiin
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Registered: 12/24/07
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 2
    #14508685 - 05/25/11 07:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ryath said:
hey thanks! :smile:

You're saying you got to a 100% fully white surface in 3 or 4 days? High spawn ratio? Small project? I see you mentioned the bottom might(?) not be done...

Most consider the appropriate consolidation time 3-7 days after 100% colonization. But like I mentioned above, when you see massive amounts of knots, primordia, or pins, it's ready.

At the longest guideline, I would say 20-25 days after your spawn date. If you don't see some form of fruit coming up, something is probably wrong.




Its 5 qt spawn to 1 brick coir. This has been the most vigerous strain i have ever worked with. It's been super speedy the whole time. it's only been 9 days since spawn, but it has definitely appeared to be 100% for 3 or 4 days now. If the bottom and sides were covered you wouldnt be able to see the brown sub on the bottom of the tub lol. I don't know. no pins, but definitely some knotting and primidora.

I might leave it in one more day.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: shroomiin] * 3
    #14508700 - 05/25/11 07:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Effect: "Fuzzy-feet" or fluffy stems happen when the mycelium seems to crawl up and surround the lower portions of the mushroom and even sometimes up to 50-60% of the stipe. It's not widely considered aesthetically pleasing, and it's one more thing to clean up after harvest. It won't harm you to eat it, but the chemical content is comparatively low.
Cause: The most common reason cited for this is excess humidity in the fruiting chamber. Why the elevated humidity makes this happen, I do not know. I would think it would be excess CO2 levels "tricking" the mycelium to start looking for food (think high CO2 during colonization), but since there is none left in the substrate, it goes up the mushrooms' stems.
Solution: If it's high humidity or gas levels, more FAE is the easy fix. :thumbup:




Still, stale air is the cause of fuzz on the stems.  It's not high CO2, or excess humidity, but you're correct that more fresh air is the cure.  Fuzzy stems are a good indicator that mold will soon follow if one fails to increase fresh air supply.
RR


--------------------
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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: RogerRabbit] * 2
    #14510210 - 05/25/11 02:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Oh good, an early correction. I'll update that portion.

:thanx: RR :thumbup:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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Offlinefbi365
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 2
    #14511687 - 05/25/11 08:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Fantastic, thanks for the advice


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Registered: 09/05/10
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: fbi365] * 2
    #14513357 - 05/26/11 01:31 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fbi365 said:
Fantastic, thanks for the advice




:mypleasure:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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InvisibleLuger0815
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 2
    #14515165 - 05/26/11 12:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

.

Edited by Luger0815 (07/03/11 10:10 PM)

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OfflinePrimal Call
Earth Mage
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Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,766
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Luger0815] * 2
    #14515262 - 05/26/11 01:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:lol: I wish I had this information before I started too! :hehehe:

Thank you for the kind words! :cheers:

:peace:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 2
    #14515615 - 05/26/11 02:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Between this and RR pinning strategy I do not think anyone could go wrong, thank you for the info and taking the time to share it with others!

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InvisibleLuger0815
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: PileusSonofGalt] * 2
    #14517906 - 05/26/11 09:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

.

Edited by Luger0815 (07/03/11 10:10 PM)

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OfflinePrimal Call
Earth Mage
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Registered: 09/05/10
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Luger0815] * 2
    #14517960 - 05/26/11 09:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Between this and RR pinning strategy I do not think anyone could go wrong, thank you for the info and taking the time to share it with others!




:woot:

Quote:

Luger0815 said:
With your permission, i linked your thread to the Your favorite and most informative links thread.
Please let me know if this was alright or if i should delete it.





Of course that's fine! I'm glad you find it so useful!

:bigyesnod:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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OfflineIngSocTHC
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Luger0815] * 2
    #14517980 - 05/26/11 09:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Wow simply amazing! One of the best articles I have read on this site. It gave me a good laugh to, your awesome!


--------------------
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Talk to who, plese talk to me.
Bring the voice of the rastaman
communicating to everyone" - Bob Marley

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Offlinei GrOw StUFF
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: IngSocTHC] * 2
    #14518084 - 05/26/11 10:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ryath....Is that one of your tubs in your signature?


--------------------
The mushrooms, which grow only during the season of torrential rains, awaken the forces of creation and produce an experience of spiritual abundance, of an astonishing, inexhaustible constitution of forms that identifies them with fertility and makes them a mediation, a means of communion, of communication between man and the natural world of which they are the metaphysical flesh.

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: i GrOw StUFF] * 2
    #14518122 - 05/26/11 10:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

IngSocTHC said:
Wow simply amazing! One of the best articles I have read on this site. It gave me a good laugh to, your awesome!




Thanks so much! :thumbup:
:lol: I still laugh at the :3some: part when I review for editing.
I'm glad to entertain! :mypleasure:

:peace: :foshizzle:

Quote:

i GrOw StUFF said:
Ryath....Is that one of your tubs in your signature?




:thumbup:  here.


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

Edited by Primal Call (05/26/11 10:21 PM)

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OfflineW-ill-yum
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 2
    #14518428 - 05/26/11 11:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

thank you this helped a lot!


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: W-ill-yum] * 3
    #14518707 - 05/26/11 11:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This is probably the best over all post I have ever read.:mushroom2:  The only thing I would change(even though the information here is surpassed by very few) is soak time 6-24 hours is way long and a huge and very vague time lapse.

  I would be afraid of the substrate breaking up after that amount of time, I do mine for about 5 but I would not go over 6.  I do it in the bath tub with 1/4 inch holes drilled in the mono and put three wooden dowels through them. It would be cool if you know a better way.


  I truly appreciate you taking the time to post this it gave me an idea in evey single area of my small humble operation I think it will be a brand new day 2mrrw.:thumbup: :Awemush:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: newgrower1] * 2
    #14518748 - 05/27/11 12:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It's posts like this that make this forum great. I'm sure I'll come back to this for reference at some point and I'm sure it will be a huge help when I do.


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: DoubleG909] * 2
    #14518767 - 05/27/11 12:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

W-ill-yum said:
thank you this helped a lot!




:hatsoff:

Quote:

newgrower1 said:
This is probably the best over all post I have ever read.:mushroom2:  The only thing I would change(even though the information here is surpassed by very few) is soak time 6-24 hours is way long and a huge and very vague time lapse.
  I would be afraid of the substrate breaking up after that amount of time, I do mine for about 5 but I would not go over 6.  I do it in the bath tub with 1/4 inch holes drilled in the mono and put three wooden dowels through them. It would be cool if you know a better way.
  I truly appreciate you taking the time to post this it gave me an idea in evey single area of my small humble operation I think it will be a brand new day 2mrrw.:thumbup: :Awemush:




wow... thank you! I'm very glad this is helping more than a couple people.

On dunking, I've read of varying opinions where some say anything more than 4 hours is not necessary, but some who just prefer to be sure it is completely re-hydrated, thus the broad range of time. Personally, I soak for about 6 hours as well, but sometimes I get distracted and it stays soaking for longer with no ill effect. The only time substrates break/split is when they get lifted unevenly.

Here's a quote that you may consider useful if you have some helping hands around.

Quote:

Wronguy said:
Dunking can certainly be accomplished with large substrates, but I slightly modify it. What I do is simply pour water over the substrate and allow the water to pool over the sides. I continue adding water until the substrate has floated about an inch higher. I wait 24 hours and with two people, pour the water out of the bottom corner hole. One person will hold the bottom of the substrate while the other holds the top.

It's pretty simple and quite effective. My second flush usually comes in about 5 days later and is ready for harvest. Just make sure to change your poly-fill if it gets wet.




As another potential path... I know BlueHelix pours water over (or used to?) the entire substrate and just leaves it floating. I've not yet tried that, but I have read of multiple warnings that standing water is never a good idea. But BlueHelix has some of the most amazing grows I've seen, so he obviously knows what he is doing. :thumbup:

Your method sounds as good as any, though, so if it has been working for you, I say keep doing it! :sunny:

Quote:

DoubleG909 said:
It's posts like this that make this forum great. I'm sure I'll come back to this for reference at some point and I'm sure it will be a huge help when I do.




Indeed, :shroomeryhead: is awesome!

:peace:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #14518854 - 05/27/11 12:32 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:congrats:

I'm sure this will help many a new grower. :super:


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InvisibleCarl Sagan
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: faceyneck]
    #14548506 - 06/01/11 10:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You do so much for us n00bs :smile:

+5 :mushroom2: is the least I could do!:happyheart:


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Carl Sagan]
    #14548688 - 06/01/11 11:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Carl Sagan said:
You do so much for us n00bs :smile:




:thanx: :mypleasure: :smile:

I received A LOT of help when I was figuring out the basics of bulk... I figure I'm just keepin' the good kharma going strong :bliss: :hehehe:


edited/updated: I found that picture RR posted and inserted in the appropriate section. Check it out! It's a pretty awesome sight! :super:

:mushdance:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #14550223 - 06/02/11 10:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This is a really great write up, full of great advice.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: anonjon]
    #14550297 - 06/02/11 10:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

noice


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #14550435 - 06/02/11 11:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Most excellent! Has been bookmarked for future reference :laugh:
:mushroom2:'s to you! Thanks :smile:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: HorizonSpawn]
    #14550643 - 06/02/11 12:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Beautiful write up, thanks dude. This definitely solved a problem I was having with a few cakes!


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: MoxyOx]
    #14550784 - 06/02/11 12:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MoxyOx said:
Beautiful write up, thanks dude. This definitely solved a problem I was having with a few cakes!




Cakes?


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #14550934 - 06/02/11 01:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

thanks for the organized info bro
helpful stuff

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: MiNiK]
    #14551038 - 06/02/11 01:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thank you for the guidance!


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #14551152 - 06/02/11 02:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Very nice write up.  The only problem I had with it was your definition of knots and primordia.  Read RR's post at the bottom of page one-

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12254747#12254747

Also, the pictures showing the benefits of consolidating, are they from MS?  They're insane!


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: asdfasdf]
    #14551213 - 06/02/11 02:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thank you for dedicating time and energy to write this up. I will definitely bookmark this.

Blessings brother.

:peace:

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: asdfasdf]
    #14553786 - 06/03/11 12:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

asdfasdf said:
Very nice write up.  The only problem I had with it was your definition of knots and primordia.  Read RR's post at the bottom of page one-

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12254747#12254747

Also, the pictures showing the benefits of consolidating, are they from MS?  They're insane!




Thanks for that link... editing the main post.

I'm very glad people are getting some help from this! :thumbup:
Thank you all for the praise! Truly appreciated! :super:

:peace:


--------------------
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Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: asdfasdf]
    #14554456 - 06/03/11 07:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

asdfasdf said:
Very nice write up.  The only problem I had with it was your definition of knots and primordia.  Read RR's post at the bottom of page one-

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12254747#12254747

Also, the pictures showing the benefits of consolidating, are they from MS?  They're insane!




The only problem I had with it was relying on RR quotes. I've never even seen a single tub of cubensis come out of him. His expertise is in cakes, straw logs, and commercial shiitake. Take the quotes out and let the writeup stand on it's own. It's solid.


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Offlineasdfasdf


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: anonjon]
    #14555655 - 06/03/11 01:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:
Quote:

asdfasdf said:
Very nice write up.  The only problem I had with it was your definition of knots and primordia.  Read RR's post at the bottom of page one-

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12254747#12254747

Also, the pictures showing the benefits of consolidating, are they from MS?  They're insane!




The only problem I had with it was relying on RR quotes. I've never even seen a single tub of cubensis come out of him. His expertise is in cakes, straw logs, and commercial shiitake. Take the quotes out and let the writeup stand on it's own. It's solid.




Um, what the fuck does that have to do with DEFINITIONS OF WORDS.  It's not as if I told OP-  No, that's wrong, this is what RR does, or no, that's wrong, this is RR's opinion.  I brought up a FACT.  And that FACT has to do with MUSHROOMS, not just cubes, so even if he never grew a cube in his life, his years with whatever mushrooms he's worked with make him a fine person to rely on for the definitions of mushroom related words.  And what difference does it make that he uses cakes instead of tubs?  You think a hyphal knot on a cake is any different than one in a tub?


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To answer some of your questions...If by "ms" you mean "magic shrooms" then yes that's what I'm trying to grow"

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OfflineOneU
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: anonjon]
    #14555665 - 06/03/11 01:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It's kind of stupid to ask someone who has a video and legal connection to his account here to grow something illegal and claim it as his own :rolleyes:

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: OneU]
    #14555974 - 06/03/11 02:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:
Take the quotes out and let the writeup stand on it's own. It's solid.




Thx again anon :smile:

I could remove the words associated with the picture (the only RR quote in there) because the image stands alone in clearly showing that substrate depth is nearly insignificant in determining mushroom health, but I think RR's explanation is useful and fitting.

Furthermore, NOT to draw on the knowledge of others in the community would basically erase the entire original post :lol: as most of the information is from reading/viewing others' opinions/results, and it is merely reworded and compiled into one thread with my own experiential twists. We might not be working together, per se, but we are definitely a team/community. :super:

On the difference between knots and primordia, it's of little consequence to the pragmatic cultivators (the vast majority of us) because the focus of the guide is not centered on the appearance or definitions of those early stages of development, but on the conditions we employ to bring about their existence. Nonetheless, I slightly edited that part because, as asdfasdf pointed out, my description of them was a bit hazy.

Again, I'm really happy this has been contributing to the knowledge base for quite a few of you! Let's not argue, please, as we have much to learn from one another in this still- and ever-evolving hobby we all adore.

I'm going to add a portion on dunking & subsequent flushes after I get some more information together as it seems there is some confusion on how to dunk, how long to dunk, and how fruiting conditions vary from consolidation to first flush compared to dunk to second flush. Update on this soon!

Thanks again all! :amanita2:

:plur:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Invisiblet23

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting *DELETED* [Re: Primal Call]
    #14556841 - 06/03/11 06:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by t23

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: t23]
    #14556875 - 06/03/11 06:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

After all this praise you might need some ego death, cant wait to enjoy some more of my mushies :trippnballs:


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OfflineMesari1
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: newgrower1]
    #14577010 - 06/07/11 09:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Great article for a n00b like me, however being the nervous type I feel like I might still take the cakes out prematurely ---to soothe my concerns could someone more learned in the ways of the Shrooms tell me how long AFTER full colonization is achieved can you keep it in the jar without risking them simply starving to death or something :smile:

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InvisibleDoctor_Inoc
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Mesari1]
    #14577034 - 06/07/11 10:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mesari1 said:
Great article for a n00b like me, however being the nervous type I feel like I might still take the cakes out prematurely ---to soothe my concerns could someone more learned in the ways of the Shrooms tell me how long AFTER full colonization is achieved can you keep it in the jar without risking them simply starving to death or something :smile:



The longer you can allow for a consolidation period, the better.  During consolidation, the myce actually, further consumes the cake.

I give my cakes a full month to consolidate.  A lot of people will tell you 1 week.  I'd suggest you at least give them 2.

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: t23]
    #14598696 - 06/11/11 11:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ryath said:
I'm going to add a portion on dunking & subsequent flushes after I get some more information together as it seems there is some confusion on how to dunk, how long to dunk, and how fruiting conditions vary from consolidation to first flush compared to dunk to second flush. Update on this soon!




Quote:

t23 said:
Perfect, one of the main things I kinda always thought was missing.
Solid gold. :mrt:

:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

:ilold:
:3some:




slowly gathering info for the dunking portion, but I thought I'd add a link to some notes if anyone else wants to contribute.

dunking notes

also made a few edits in the main post... a couple specifics, but nothing major.

:plur:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #14678500 - 06/27/11 03:35 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

This thread is everything that is so incredible and awesome about this community we have here.

Great job putting all that info together, and in such a great, easy to read way! :smile:

Can't tell you enough how many people and fungi this will help out.

Three cheers for you!!!

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Invisiblearis
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: ely2121]
    #14680479 - 06/27/11 02:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:popcorn:

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OfflineCaptain Chaos
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: aris]
    #14709552 - 07/03/11 02:38 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i flamed this post because i found it super useful, I'm a noob on my first grow and i had alot of questions about pinning and flushing kind of stuff so this will probly stop alot of people who are in the situation i was in acouple of days ago from posting,"still no pins, what do i do???". also for other noobs, Wait a while after colonization before you birth and IMO put jars in light after full colonization


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Captain Chaos]
    #14710186 - 07/03/11 08:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:popcorn:

Nice write up.

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InvisiblePareidolia

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: UnnamedGrower]
    #14714136 - 07/04/11 03:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Wow this is amazing! really cleared up alot of things :thumbup: This will help alot of members. 5+ for you!

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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #14718491 - 07/05/11 12:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Also, if we initiate fruiting when we think it "should" be ready, it will laugh at us (:hehehe: listen carefully) while it finishes consolidating the substrate as we begin wondering if it's ever going to pin. :confused2: So, ultimately, we end up waiting the same amount of time for it to do its thing. Furthermore, I've noticed that the longer I leave a consolidating substrate in colonization conditions but with the slightest amount of FAE, the more knots/primordia develop, which leads to (ideally) an even and expansive pinset.




Pretty much everything in a nutshell, that is. :thumbup:

Quote:

As another potential path... I know BlueHelix pours water over (or used to?) the entire substrate and just leaves it floating. I've not yet tried that, but I have read of multiple warnings that standing water is never a good idea.





24 hrs with the sub floating, just poured right on top works for me too.

:peace:PS


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #14718556 - 07/05/11 01:00 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:cheer: more visitors! Thank you for the compliments all! It's very satisfying knowing this is helping people with their projects! :smile:

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:

24 hrs with the sub floating, just poured right on top works for me too.

:peace:PS




nice! :thanx: for sharing! It's good to see the pouring method is used by more than a handful of people. The impression I got from BlueHelix, here, is that he just leaves the substrate floating until the mycelium absorbs it.

I have not yet tried this, but anyone who has more input on dunking methods and accommodating subsequent flushes after the dunk, please feel free to add here or in my journal notes.

Slowly, but surely, the dunking portion is coming together. More comments from you wonderfully experienced mycophiles will assuredly hasten it's development! :bow2:

:peace::sunny::plur:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #14718582 - 07/05/11 01:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

is that he just leaves the substrate floating until the mycelium absorbs it.




Yup.  Bulk subs will suck up a hell of a lot of water, and it all goes into fruits I've found.  I've done multiple soaks sometimes, until they won't take any more.  Doesn't see to hurt anything. :shrug:

:peace:PS

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #14739769 - 07/09/11 06:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

lots of good info, thanks!


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Edited by JackalTr0nic (07/09/11 06:33 AM)

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #14744865 - 07/10/11 11:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the input PS! :thumbup: :bliss:


Quote:

JackalTr0nic said:
lots of good info, thanks!





:woot:  :kenthumbup:

:peace:


--------------------
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #14816818 - 07/24/11 07:47 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

just wanted this in my treads awsome post thank you very much

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Djchrist]
    #14819770 - 07/24/11 09:14 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:woot:

I'm glad you find it useful!  :peace::sunny::plur:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #14872706 - 08/04/11 02:47 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Clicked on this thread from your signature a couple of days ago.

Just wanted to say that I found this very helpful.  My recent grows had been kinda disappointing, with virtually all my fruits growing from the sides of my subs, and the top looking kind of hard and waxy, etc.  I've also been failing at growing various exotics -- they'd get to be 2-3 inches tall and then just die; I noticed that they seemed to do better when they were farther away from my FAE fans (I grow in a custom-built wardrobe, with various fans on timers).

:doh:

I should have figured this out for myself.  My FAE fans were on far too much of the time.  Thanks for helping me figure it out. :thumbup:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: andymc]
    #14872884 - 08/04/11 03:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I have this thread posted in my journal. It's an excellent write up.


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: faceyneck]
    #14872981 - 08/04/11 03:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

faceyneck said:
:congrats:

I'm sure this will help many a new grower. :super:






and many an old grower ...

Excellent work, Ryath.


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: uncle_rico]
    #14891671 - 08/08/11 05:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Really wish I had found this page circa 5 days ago. Only one cake had hyphal knots before birth and now it's the ONLY one producing anything. Luckily, it was only the one batch.

First question: Is there a way to make a cake produce hyphal/primordia after it's been birthed, DNR'd, and been sitting in the chamber for a week with no visible change whatsoever? They had sat in the jars a week after myc took over substrate too, which I thought was enough for them but they didn't have hyphal in the jars.


Also second question it says "bluing" and "bruising" are a cause of too much FAE? I've not had yellowing but I've given a great deal of FAE based on a lot of posts by RR in the past I've read. I thought 'blue' on the cake just meant good stuff? The primordia is bluing and it's the only cake producing pins of the aforementioned batch. Should I give it less FAE or keep doing what I'm doing? The cake seems to be producing more as it becomes more blue.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Pakal]
    #14892065 - 08/08/11 06:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Firstly, it's worth mentioning that 1 week after 100% for a PF tek is better than nothing, but it's recommended you wait at least 2 weeks if not up to a month.

Knotting is best encouraged with high humidity and evaporation from the substrate. 99% being the ideal, but get it as high as you can without over-misting... it's my understanding that the perlite in a properly built SGFC is adequate , but I have no PF tek experience.

Concerning FAE... it's just been my experience and observation that too much FAE can lend to blueing or bruising of the substrate, but it's very difficult to give too much FAE if your moisture/humidity is spot-on.

It's likely new-grower impatience in your case, and you can keep doing what you are doing. The blueing is much less of a concern than yellowing and/or drying out of the substrate/cake surface.

hope this helps and good luck with your cakes!

:plur:


--------------------
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Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #14892412 - 08/08/11 07:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting, thank you for the good tips. Will wait longer till birthing the rest.

I got a good 90% humidity most of the time and am misting the sides of the chamber since I read that spraying the cakes was bad for pin formation.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #14893837 - 08/09/11 01:30 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

@ andy, arp, and uncle rico:

:blush: :thanx:

:levitate:

:peace:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #14897902 - 08/09/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think split and cracked caps should be two different cause and effects.




Cracked caps are caused by drying out and you can tell by looking that the cap is dry. Split caps are caused by very rapid growth, and still look nice and fresh, except for the split.
RR

i quoted here http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5516714#5516714


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: treewood69]
    #14955863 - 08/21/11 09:12 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Great thread. lots of valuable information here. Added to favorites :smile:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: virus1824]
    #14955905 - 08/21/11 09:32 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Awesome post...and right on time!


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Diamond05]
    #14966341 - 08/23/11 03:03 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

is an 8000k light ok?

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: mushroom messenger]
    #14967140 - 08/23/11 05:48 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

8000k should be ok.  8000k is an all blue, north sky, spectrum on the kelvin scale and is closer to the 6500k range then warm white/kitchen and bath light bulbs.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Doctor_Inoc]
    #15024181 - 09/03/11 06:07 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Excellent write-up. Your usage of emoticons wasn't half bad either.  :hatsoff:

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Mycophyte]
    #15024415 - 09/03/11 06:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

This went into my bookmarks collection. Very nice  :thumbup:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: maug]
    #15025577 - 09/03/11 10:32 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Better late than never.  Great write-up Ryath!

Quite comprehensive.

Take care,

JD


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #15035426 - 09/05/11 10:01 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Nice thread. Covers alot of stuff. :thumbup:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: sinewave]
    #15036230 - 09/06/11 02:31 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

very nice, 5 shrooms for you!

(found this just as i was stressing about my first cakes and minitub, relieved my tension.)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: dontkillthedj]
    #15212922 - 10/12/11 08:51 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:woot: More fans!

Sorry for the delay in appreciating; I've been offline for a few months!

Thank you all for posting, and I'm very happy this has helped a few more people! :smile:

:peace: :heart:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #15322103 - 11/04/11 01:25 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Awesome Ryath! Thanks man! RR should just set the search engine 'monotub' to come right here! :thumbup::grin:

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: CapSlinger]
    #15322401 - 11/04/11 02:34 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

ahhh nice nice. just in time for my very first newborns

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: mart]
    #15322407 - 11/04/11 02:34 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

CapSlinger said:
Awesome Ryath! Thanks man! RR should just set the search engine 'monotub' to come right here! :thumbup::grin:




:lol: I don't know about that, but many thanks! I'm glad this helped.

:peace:

Quote:

mart said:
ahhh nice nice. just in time for my very first newborns




:woot: babies! the good kind!


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #15333041 - 11/06/11 09:04 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Great post, thanks for sharing these tips !

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #15344805 - 11/09/11 01:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for the succinct info on pinning.  Puts it in clearer light.
Also thanks for reminding me to chill out and wait after full colorization. Patience is a trait I'm still learning.
ZOM

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #16025135 - 03/31/12 05:02 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

great help for a noob thx

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: rgshroomery]
    #16038872 - 04/03/12 03:20 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

paradox85 said:
Great post, thanks for sharing these tips !



Quote:

ZOMan said:
Thanks for the succinct info on pinning.  Puts it in clearer light.
Also thanks for reminding me to chill out and wait after full colorization. Patience is a trait I'm still learning.
ZOM



Quote:

rgshroomery said:
great help for a noob thx




:super: Thanks for stopping in! I'm glad it helps! :grin:

:plur::heart::smile:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #16804434 - 09/07/12 11:15 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Awesome write up, gave up 5 star rating, and voted up, A+++, and bookmarked! Thanks!


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: LukeSitewalker] * 2
    #16823728 - 09/10/12 02:56 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LukeSitewalker said:
Awesome write up, gave up 5 star rating, and voted up, A+++, and bookmarked! Thanks!




:super: Thank you so much!

Earlier in this thread, I mentioned I'd put together a post about dunking. I was at the time working on an "everything you need to know" PDF with Phoenix Crash and the dunking portion was meant to be in there too. I'm not sure if he finished the PDF or not, but the dunking post/portion is... unnecessary as result of the riduculously varied ways one can approach rehydrating the substrate.

Instead of making a new post, I'm going to bump this thread with some of the thoughts, questions, and concerns regarding dunking. There is no end-all, best solution for all of us. Go with what works for your setup.

Please feel free to add any thoughts or anecdotes you have regarding the OP notes or dunking ideas below.

:thanx: again for the support all!
:foshizzle:

Some Dunking Options:
1. Completely submerge the substrate.
You can soak in the FC or in a separate container, but be sure to drain it well whichever way you go. A soak for 2-4 hours is usually plenty. To keep the sub below water, some people use a weight on top while others rig PVC pipe, dowels, wire, or non-abrasive rope through their FC's holes. Again, do whatever works for you.
Big concerns: Over-saturation and subsequent anaerobic contamination. Breaking the substrate with the weight or when moving it.

2. Pouring water over and/or heavy misting.
I've read of some using heavy misting and others saying it is insufficient for rehydration. I'm thinking it would work well for mini-monos but for 30qt+ monotubs, it would be more difficult.

Here's some good thoughts on pouring...
Quote:

Blue Helix said:
Also after a flush is cleaned off the surface, one should POUR water over the entire fruiting surface.  I don't mean mist it.  I mean POUR it over until it is soaked.  If the substrate is floating on water after this, then you can pour off the excess or just allow it to float.  Who cares if it is floating?




I always thought still water was a problem, but BlueHelix is one of our pros IMO, so :shrug:.
I think the ideal pour would be one that completely absorbs into the substrate over the next few hours. This amount will vary based on the size of your substrate.

And another thought...
Quote:

Spongiform said:
I've just been 'watering' my tubs between flushes.  I weigh out the flush, then rehydrate with approx. that much weight in water.
So far for my bigger tubs, ends up being 1-2 cups of water and I do it about 1/2 cup at a time over 2-3 days.




Concerns: Inadequate water replenishment.
Others?

Total's dunking post
IRF dunking chat

There are assuredly many more links discussing dunking if you care to search.

Final points: Do whatever works to get more water in the substrate. Keep it simple. Some growers don't dunk at all anymore. TranscendingLife's One Flush Wonder might appeal to those of you wanting to avoid the dunk.

After the dunk:
We'll have a lot of water back in the substrate. We should use this to our advantage in rebuilding the 95+ humidity for pin formation on the second flush. Feel free to play with upping the light and FAE to get excess moisture back into the FC space. After a few days of this, set the timers/fans back to normal FAE and 12/12 lights. Don't assume the moisture is always excessive unless we see pooling. Continue misting as needed.

Anything else?

:peace::bliss::sunny::peace:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #16825605 - 09/10/12 08:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

IME floating works fine, I just rinse the sub in the minitub and fill over the top of the sub.  Usually it floats loose, this doesn't matter.  Overnight soak, the sub absorbs a bunch of water.  If it takes it all up I add more water until it's satisfied, then drain.  It's in the FC the whole time, and there are no changes to the environment.  I've not seen any contamination issues that could be blamed on dunking so far. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #16825742 - 09/10/12 08:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I always remove my sub from their container and soak them in a sink.  Never saw contams from it

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #16826569 - 09/10/12 11:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Great input friends! :thanx:!

I'm glad you both use different styles to help further my position. Whatever works! :super: I've tried removing-dunk, soak in the FC, and pouring water over... all functional.
I'm still nervous of leaving excess water in the bottom of the FC, though. You guys ever have problems with this or are you always sure to drain?

:plur:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #16829022 - 09/11/12 01:28 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

My FC is separate from the minitubs and it has aquarium gravel with water and a heater underneath with all the right controls.  I do get contams in the gravel eventually after a lot of grows so I bleach them to sterilize and reload for the next go round.  But those don't affect whats in the tubs. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #17078769 - 10/22/12 12:34 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Added a few research updates/edits to the OP.

To all of you who have rated :mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2: as a result of this thread, many thanks to you! :super:

:bliss::sunny::plur:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #17129793 - 10/30/12 10:44 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

How do you let it consolidate that long without risking overlay?
Does any one know what the original Sub recipe is?

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: doodben]
    #17131716 - 10/30/12 04:25 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Overlay is usually only a problem when colonization moves over/through a casing layer. If there is nothing left above the substrate to eat, overlay won't happen unless the surface mycelium is over-misted. There might be other causes I'm unaware of, but I've never had a problem with it.

The substrate recipe I usually use is horse manure, equal parts coir/verm, a little coffee grounds, and dissolved gypsum. It looks like 50/20/20/10/Gypsum.
You can look up some of the "grow logs" by searching for my name in conjunction with Be Positive, Texas, Costa Rica, or Circumcision is evil. There are probably more, but I can't recall the varieties right now.

:peace:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #17138125 - 10/31/12 05:46 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

ohhhhhh...ok 

I will definitely do that!  Thanks !

Edited by doodben (10/31/12 05:48 PM)

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: doodben]
    #17139458 - 10/31/12 09:38 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Also check out my bulk help links. Be sure not to miss CH HELL's Additives and check out these grows from penhed recently. He's got some not so common additives in his mix that I plan on using eventually.

:peace:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #17575029 - 01/19/13 06:56 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I've rehydrated trays in my greenhouse from blasting the ultrasonic excessively for a day or so after first flush. 100% 'plus' humidity, with always more being added, gently allows the subs to soak with water from the air as it's saturating everything.


--------------------
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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Violet]
    #17582485 - 01/20/13 11:30 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Nice addition! Thanks!

:peace:


--------------------
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My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #18662349 - 08/05/13 06:52 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

great post.  Very helpful info.  :havesomescience:

I'm really new at this and it seems that the contaminated jars of Bacillius, cobweb and even the pic of the jar thatis yeasty, all seem to appear normal to me. I think i would seriously mistake them as not being contaminated.


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: shroomiin]
    #18955705 - 10/09/13 06:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That was a great post. Thanks for taking the time. What ever you are doing to get a flush like that..I'm all over it.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: sharkdiver]
    #18955886 - 10/09/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

SO informative, bookmarked :thumbup: thanks Ryath. I wonder if most of this info applies to cakes too.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #19669463 - 03/08/14 08:52 PM (10 years, 13 days ago)

.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Ishmael43]
    #19669510 - 03/08/14 09:01 PM (10 years, 13 days ago)

:facepalm:

nice first post on an old ass thread.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19669529 - 03/08/14 09:05 PM (10 years, 13 days ago)

:smbfacepalm:

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: PussyFart]
    #19670267 - 03/09/14 12:51 AM (10 years, 12 days ago)

:rofl:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #21899742 - 07/05/15 05:13 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks!

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: George Jones] * 1
    #22962182 - 03/01/16 01:59 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

This thread may be old, but it's SO informative. Damn I'd rate you 5 stars if i could.

I started 3 monotubs on the same day, so assumed I should have set them all in fruiting conditions on the same day too. Found out through doing so, that the one with many knots produced abundantly, while the other two with no real indication of being ready to start fruiting (Besides looking completely white) produced less than optimal on it's first flush. I'm now waiting on the 2nd flushes ^_^

Tub 1 = 100g+
Tub 2 = 60g+
Tub 3 = 60g+

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Timmy Meow] * 1
    #22962417 - 03/01/16 03:27 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

Was this performed with ms, a clone, or an isolate?


--------------------
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 1
    #23954274 - 12/24/16 01:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Bumping for all to read and to say merry xmas old friend where the fux are ya


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: cronicr] * 1
    #24480655 - 07/13/17 03:58 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

:thanx: for the bump. I'm here now. Been on a long and somber distraction from very important things. Glad to be back.

:samus:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 1
    #24480663 - 07/13/17 04:00 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Hey bro!


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 1
    #24570934 - 08/22/17 01:27 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Updated the contam section a bit in the OP. I'm sure there are more and great links on contams that I don't know about. If anyone has favorite, informative links with photos, LMK and I'll get them in the OP

:peace:

Edited by Primal Call (09/12/17 10:52 PM)

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 1
    #24624406 - 09/12/17 07:43 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Gonna give this a bump since I've been linking it a lot lately. Great write up that has help me tremendously. Well done


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Pipefitter537] * 2
    #24624421 - 09/12/17 07:47 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

i had this open in my tab bar from another thread. spread that knowledge!
:havesomescience:

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #24624838 - 09/12/17 10:54 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pipefitter537 said:
Gonna give this a bump since I've been linking it a lot lately. Great write up that has help me tremendously. Well done




:woot: :thanx:

I love your chosen quote. Such an audacious movie!

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #24625386 - 09/13/17 06:38 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Great thread


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: JHOVA]
    #24625387 - 09/13/17 06:39 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Just bookmarked this amazing old thread!


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: dhype773] * 1
    #24637040 - 09/17/17 04:10 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Edited OP.

Added more contam info/links and swapped a few other links for more recent/up-to-date information.

:peace:

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #24637080 - 09/17/17 05:07 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Saved :smile:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: littlespider]
    #24702474 - 10/11/17 02:22 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Just found this as I was searching around for cube info. Great thread!  :rockon:

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: maddchef]
    #24703067 - 10/11/17 06:23 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

maddchef said:
Was this performed with ms, a clone, or an isolate?




MS. Sorry for the 1 year and 7 month delay, only saw this now after it being brought up again :lol:

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: littlespider]
    #24797297 - 11/21/17 07:53 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah. I know this is old, but this post is so informative and so comprehensive that noobs NEED to read it! Wish I had come across this one when I first started. It is excellent!

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: ShroomyToons]
    #24797595 - 11/21/17 11:17 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the bumps all. It's one of those threads that gets buried because there is no discussion, just a compilation of info.

I'm happy this is still helping folks out!


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #24797822 - 11/21/17 01:15 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Interesting read. I have 2 66L tubs of PE. All jars from the same time period. Both spawned to CVG on 10/28.

The 4.5" depth sub has just launched out maybe 7 monster fruits and some pins coming up.

The other is 2.5" almost same amount of spawn and hasn't done jack. Been full colo for 10 days maybe.

Sitting right next to each other.  MS so who knows... Or contam.  Gave both a lot more FAE this weekend.

Hoping my new clone tubs rock!

Also going to clone and harvest the big cluster from 4.5"

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Snazz]
    #24797966 - 11/21/17 02:24 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Check out Lotkids PE tips if you haven't already. I've still to get a really nice PE pinset. Going to try his approach next time with a clone.

And I've noticed they do fruit better from thicker subs... more water, really.

Full col for 10 days is not all that long. PE is sloooowww

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #24798195 - 11/21/17 03:58 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Thought the short sub was maybe too wet. Peat casing didn't dry up after 3 days w/ open lid.  Just added around a cup at lunch.

The sides look very similar for rhizo growth. Some knots. It finally started creeping up the casing which is odd for pH up peat at full colo.

Last year's PE tubs were mostly in sync. Ah well, patience!

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Snazz]
    #24798644 - 11/21/17 07:30 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Holy Crap! Posting here so I can come back to it for sure! What an awesome read! Thank you for your contribution!


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #24816546 - 11/30/17 10:50 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

I am a noob and you helped me alot already, thank you :mushroom2:

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: mortuu]
    #24817634 - 11/30/17 07:16 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CubieCat said:
Holy Crap! Posting here so I can come back to it for sure! What an awesome read! Thank you for your contribution!





Quote:

mortuu said:
I am a noob and you helped me alot already, thank you :mushroom2:




Happiness!

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #24818380 - 12/01/17 06:55 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Primal Call, someone is doing a book of teks and I suggested this be part of it.

It would be cool if this was stickied, or inserted somewhere into info that is easy for newbs to access. It's stellar and really helpful!

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #24851956 - 12/17/17 02:57 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Great stuff! Thanks for this info, very helpful.


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: ShroomyToons]
    #24852024 - 12/17/17 03:32 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomyToons said:
Primal Call, someone is doing a book of teks and I suggested this be part of it.

It would be cool if this was stickied, or inserted somewhere into info that is easy for newbs to access. It's stellar and really helpful!




:thanx: to you both.

Still editing/updating the OP as I find cool links that also touch on this subject.


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
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My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #25255258 - 06/08/18 12:24 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

:bump:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #25255379 - 06/08/18 04:16 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Mahalo!

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #25417346 - 08/27/18 05:31 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry for digging this thread up but I have a minor question and don't think I should start another thread.

I spawned this tub a month ago, it colonizes nicely and pin after the first week, I messed up a little and it got dry so I dunked and added a thin verm casing. It pinned nicely and covered most of the tub ( currently not home so cant take a pic ) but the pin grew really slow, the first pin from after the first week is still only ~2-3 inches and not even opening cap, the pinset after dunk caught up but still pretty low as it take 2 weeks to just make it to 2-3 inches. What would be the cause of this?

The fruits look healthy, decent size but a bit small, smell fine, everything were like my other grows but it just really slow. Im pretty sure the variety was texas yellow cap.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: hecquyn124]
    #25417390 - 08/27/18 05:50 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

2 weeks and not open? Sounds like abortion, sure they're still growing? Dunking most certainly drowned the first pinset... Also, restricting FAE for a "colonization period " has been found unnecessary, and potentially detrimental... introducing "fruiting conditions "(now called"growing conditions") from spawn produces faster colonization and better flushes... you'd have better luck starting a new thread... And the search function is your fiend

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25417411 - 08/27/18 05:58 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

They're definitely still growing, I can notice growth and they grew way past aborts size IME. I did put in fruiting after 4 days of colonization. The sub is still pinning last time I check and pin grow pretty quick then stall at about an average finger size. Some fruit's ring broke but cap wont open.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: hecquyn124]
    #25417422 - 08/27/18 06:03 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Sounds about typical size... fruit can abort at any point... MS? Might be too wet, might be genetics... I'd say 2 weeks is a bit long... sure they're cubensis?

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25417456 - 08/27/18 06:15 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

MS, they are def cubensis I picked quite a few to know what they look like. Sorry for the no picture thing, still new to this forum and didn't think of taking a pic before leaving.

Would you mind linking me some thread about aborts? Their small size probably due to genetics, but I don't think they were aborts, from my limited knowledge isn't aborts supposed to stop growing completely?

I think I'm going to leave them for a week and when I get back if they still not opening veil I'm just gonna harvest what I can get.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: hecquyn124]
    #25417463 - 08/27/18 06:20 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Aborts will stop growing yes... And will be resorbed or "eaten" by mycelium...not PE or APE? 2 weeks has me scratching my head

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25417472 - 08/27/18 06:24 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

A quick typing of "large aborts" in the search function yielded me this thread ...

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25417505 - 08/27/18 06:37 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I got someone to take this picture


I started for my friend and all he got was that tub so I did unmodified, but it wasn't the best one and dial in was a pain, but I thought I did a decent job till they all stall :laugh:

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: hecquyn124]
    #25417516 - 08/27/18 06:42 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

They need air! Notice the fuzz all the way up the stipe... use the lid to fan the old air out... is it in a closet? Lid flipped upside down? Also, substrate is super thin, how much spawn? May have maxed out, and fruits are small from a combination of a decent pinset and insufficient nutrients in the spawn (from low spawn ratio)

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25417562 - 08/27/18 06:58 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Lid was slightly tilt to allow some FAE, it was drying out so I did tell him to put lid on for a bit. The fuzzy feet were only on a couple side pin, this was his first tub I helped with so I'm pretty sure he check like every hour or so, thought it wasn't too much of an issue.

I had my trouble with FAE but this seems like something else. I will tell him to dial more FAE anyway.

edit : Spawn:bulk ratio was 1:2 or higher, the tub was tiny so I used about 3-4 quart of rye berries spawn, I should have got him a better tub :frown: But if they maxed out they would just open veil and have tiny fruit right? not just stalled growth. And they are still putting out more pins from what he told me.

Edited by hecquyn124 (08/27/18 07:03 PM)

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: hecquyn124]
    #25417584 - 08/27/18 07:06 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I've never heard it take 2 weeks... FAE may be the whole issue...

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25417607 - 08/27/18 07:14 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Probably man, thank you for the help, helped a bit with my mind. At least even if the tub fail he still got some to eat :mushroom2: He increased FAE, will update if it turns out good. Such a waste for a decent pinset tho.

Same with the 2 weeks thing man, been messing with my head for a bit, still don't understand why the sub pump out pins still but wont mature, maybe we spoiled the sub with such great growing conditions it thinks it can take its time :rolleyes:

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: hecquyn124]
    #25417608 - 08/27/18 07:16 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Lmao, I doubt it... maybe,:goodluck: and let us know either way!

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #25421196 - 08/29/18 11:02 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the info! It was very helpful and well written.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Vargus0]
    #25421212 - 08/29/18 11:08 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Some of the information here is outdated misinformation...

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25421246 - 08/29/18 11:22 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Good to know. Thanks for the heads up.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Vargus0]
    #25421264 - 08/29/18 11:32 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Lots of us have been spawning straight to fruiting conditions with faster and better results in unmodified tubs with the lid flipped... Increased CO2 for  pinset is outdated misinformation... Mushrooms (and mycelium) are aerobic organisms that require oxygen for healthy growth... bacteria favors anaerobia (no oxygen) and though you may get a  pinset, it's likely a reaction to the stress of anaerobia, and the risk of contamination makes it more sensible just to have patience for another 1-3 days waiting for it to fruit naturally

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25421356 - 08/29/18 12:05 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I'm glad you pointed that out because that was the number one thing I took away from this. My jars are fully colonized and I was doing a little extra reading before I mixed it with the substrate.

My intention was to go straight into fruiting until I read this.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Vargus0]
    #25424276 - 08/30/18 04:02 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I went to check today and decided to harvest the one that broke their veils premature. I think it was FAE problem because even after I told him to flip and turn the lid 90 degree they still have fuzzy feet and some even crawled up to the stem. It probably was because the tub was in his closet and the closet didn't get enough air circulation, I opened the closet door.

They are growing now I think, the sub even pumping out more pins, lots on the side but thats fine since it is almost impossible to dial in with this tub for me. The fruit on top are growing to normal size.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Vargus0]
    #25424421 - 08/30/18 05:05 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Anaerobic life benefits from oxygen: nice looking out for your friend... you and OP?
Quote:

Vargus0 said:
I'm glad you pointed that out because that was the number one thing I took away from this. My jars are fully colonized and I was doing a little extra reading before I mixed it with the substrate.

My intention was to go straight into fruiting until I read this.



Yes, straight to fruiting conditions

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25424451 - 08/30/18 05:20 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Oh no I meant to reply to you, I'm still getting used to the forum, it been a long while since I used a forum.

I just try to spread the love man, my friend has been paying a lot for the shroom before I helped him to start his first grow. He's really happy now although the first "flush" was only 18 gram dried :tongue2: I'm not even sure if I should call it a flush because the tub is still filled with pins and maturing fruits. It is just a really weird sub for me.

I got him a proper tub, an old small PC I had, and a new master cultural for his next grow. Hopefully his next grow would be better and less problematic than this one.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #25429101 - 09/01/18 06:03 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks great write up

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #25442115 - 09/07/18 08:16 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

This is one of the best cultivation posts on the entire site. Thank you,

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: audiosnipez] * 1
    #25442261 - 09/07/18 09:36 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Much of this is actually outdated misinformation... Many of us fruit in unmodified tubs with the lid flipped from spawn, with no "colonization period" with better and faster flushes... limited FAE, or wax paper for pinset isn't necessary, and usually causes more issues than helps... mushrooms and mycelium are aerobic organisms that require oxygen for healthy growth... 12/12 lighting has been shown beneficial to mycelium through all stages of growth from spore to spent

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25673707 - 12/12/18 05:22 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Thank you Primal Call, and thanks Caps McGee!

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: bartishroom]
    #25850948 - 03/03/19 10:59 PM (5 years, 17 days ago)

Yeah.

I'm bumping it because...There is a ton of good info here.

Surface conditions are important, kiddos. And you have to develop an eye for them.

It isn't magic, and yet every place has a bit of individuality. Learn what is good, and bad, and you will do well. :smile:


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26200130 - 09/20/19 08:22 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Caps McGee said:
Lots of us have been spawning straight to fruiting conditions with faster and better results in unmodified tubs with the lid flipped... Increased CO2 for  pinset is outdated misinformation... Mushrooms (and mycelium) are aerobic organisms that require oxygen for healthy growth... bacteria favors anaerobia (no oxygen) and though you may get a  pinset, it's likely a reaction to the stress of anaerobia, and the risk of contamination makes it more sensible just to have patience for another 1-3 days waiting for it to fruit naturally




Thank you for steering folks in better directions Caps McGee.

Obviously, I thought this was more or less relevant at the time of the original writing, but it is getting old! :oldman2: I am not on the forums much anymore and have not updated the main post where needed. This is one of the problems with the search engine, as we know well.

Anyway, for all the folks this has helped and all the good vibes and gratitude, I am honored to have helped a little, and I apologize for not updating this thread. I'm sure there are now more concise and updated threads regarding fruiting cubies. Maybe someone could copy/paste and compile something similar, but updated and more thorough. Or maybe someone already has. Here's to hoping. :cheers:


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New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #26200309 - 09/20/19 10:52 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

It's been done... and now been pushed down by geriatrics lol... I joke, I joke... all is well,  we'll get them steered properly: is our purpose

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26372052 - 12/09/19 11:26 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Very informative indeed...thanks alot!


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #26739034 - 06/12/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Hello all, looking for some feedback on this, my second project with syringe spores. I’m a newbie but my first BRF cakes were a success. The strain I’ve used now is Menace. I used wheat grain from the store, and mixed 3:1 with coco coir and Vermiculite, after my 32 oz jars colonized. Now I’m getting tons of pins and primordia. However after reading your post, I realized the tub allows too much FAE due to the holes I’d drilled there. So, I’ve now filled them with cotton cause I don’t have polyfill. Now there will be more humidity. What do you think? Any feedback?

Thank you,
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #28346713 - 06/04/23 06:59 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Hi!
Thank you for the wonderful information.

I'm currently harvesting my very first batch of mushrooms (B+ strain of cubensis).  I'm pretty sure that what I'm looking at is contamination, probably mold. Most notably I'm seeing the base of my mushrooms getting very puffy white. I've been cutting this part off prior to drying to salvage what I can.

I'm adding pictures as well.

Any suggestions?
Thanks!



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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: BlairW]
    #28346937 - 06/04/23 10:57 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

BlairW said:
Hi!
Thank you for the wonderful information.

I'm currently harvesting my very first batch of mushrooms (B+ strain of cubensis).  I'm pretty sure that what I'm looking at is contamination, probably mold. Most notably I'm seeing the base of my mushrooms getting very puffy white. I've been cutting this part off prior to drying to salvage what I can.

I'm adding pictures as well.

Any suggestions?
Thanks!







We call it fuzzy feet. It's just mycelium. Some strains are more prone to it but it is perfectly fine and safe to eat. It can be a symptom of low FAE In some cases.

It's purely cosmetic.

Your cake is extremely dry by the way. Make sure you rehydrate it well after you harvest.


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call]
    #28481418 - 09/24/23 06:55 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Hi I’m a newbie first try I got grow bags inoculated 4 bags after 3-4 weeks of colonizing75-80degrees I thought it was 💯so started fruiting by putting into a Martha tent with humidifier. My room gets warm during the day I keep curtain closed because the sun comes directly in. 3 weeks  in the Martha tent and it’s totally white mycelium really hard and no pins and a little goldish liquid. I’m not sure what to do or how I can save them. I also have 4 more bags been colonizing for a few weeks behind these not fruiting yet. Can someone please help me I don’t want to waste a lot of money I thought this was alot easier full proof as northspore stated on their website. I have capability to do monotubs. I’ve seen options to cold shock. It seems everyone has a different answer and no definitive pictures of how each process looks to know exactly what to do at each stage.

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Highvibelife]
    #28481429 - 09/24/23 07:02 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

I have pics but not sure if I should post here

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Highvibelife] * 1
    #28481545 - 09/24/23 08:02 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Highvibelife said:
Hi I’m a newbie first try I got grow bags inoculated 4 bags after 3-4 weeks of colonizing75-80degrees I thought it was 💯so started fruiting by putting into a Martha tent with humidifier. My room gets warm during the day I keep curtain closed because the sun comes directly in. 3 weeks  in the Martha tent and it’s totally white mycelium really hard and no pins and a little goldish liquid. I’m not sure what to do or how I can save them. I also have 4 more bags been colonizing for a few weeks behind these not fruiting yet. Can someone please help me I don’t want to waste a lot of money I thought this was alot easier full proof as northspore stated on their website. I have capability to do monotubs. I’ve seen options to cold shock. It seems everyone has a different answer and no definitive pictures of how each process looks to know exactly what to do at each stage.




Hey, pictures would definitely help to try and diagnose your situation. Unfortunately, vendors tell you to squirt spores directly into bags which is basically asking for contamination. I wrote this for people in your situation explaining the problem and solution (granted I'm making an assumption on your situation without seeing pictures). The stalling and goldish liquid as you say are not good signs.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but it's definitely not a foolproof hobby. I wrote that up because I've seen a lot of similar cases lately.


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Benson]
    #28481605 - 09/24/23 08:27 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Here they are

Edited by Highvibelife (09/24/23 08:28 PM)

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Highvibelife]
    #28481612 - 09/24/23 08:29 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

How do I add photos

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Highvibelife]
    #28481623 - 09/24/23 08:32 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Highvibelife said:
How do I add photos




Above the reply box there is a list of icons (like bold, text color, etc). Click the third from the right (image), choose a file, then click upload. It will spit out a link in your response that will display the image when you post.


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Benson]
    #28481655 - 09/24/23 08:42 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Like many of us you've learned an expensive lesson, and I don't mean that to judge. For the cost of the 8 bags on that vendor's site, you could have spent ~$50 more for a pressure cooker, mycology filter bags, and enough grain to make 50 bags and have a pressure cooker left over. For another ~$40 or less you get agar going with that pressure cooker. Finally spend another ~$40 or less on coco coir and bins and you'll have yourself some mushrooms, free from the price gouging and misinformation of vendors.


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Highvibelife]
    #28481899 - 09/24/23 10:21 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Highvibelife said:
How do I add photos



See: How to add a picture to a post - updated version

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Highvibelife]
    #28482049 - 09/25/23 06:29 AM (5 months, 20 days ago)

How do I add photos

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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Highvibelife]
    #28482057 - 09/25/23 06:35 AM (5 months, 20 days ago)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Highvibelife]
    #28482058 - 09/25/23 06:36 AM (5 months, 20 days ago)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Highvibelife]
    #28482061 - 09/25/23 06:36 AM (5 months, 20 days ago)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Highvibelife]
    #28482062 - 09/25/23 06:37 AM (5 months, 20 days ago)


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Highvibelife]
    #28482402 - 09/25/23 01:53 PM (5 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Highvibelife said:





Yeah this is toast. The yellowing is always a bad sign


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