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shortpork
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Hydrocodone help
#14506560 - 05/24/11 08:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I know that grapefruit juice potentates hydrocodone but is that it? Would grape or apple juice or any other juice for that matter do anything? Thanks
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Pigasus
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Re: Hydrocodone help [Re: shortpork]
#14506574 - 05/24/11 08:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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if you know anyone with digestive problems see if you can score some tagamet (cimetidine), that's probably the best opiate potentiator i've come across.
and this probably belongs in ODD
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MeowMix96
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Re: Hydrocodone help [Re: Pigasus]
#14506607 - 05/24/11 08:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pigasus said: if you know anyone with digestive problems see if you can score some tagamet (cimetidine), that's probably the best opiate potentiator i've come across.
and this probably belongs in ODD
Seriously? I have a shit load of that stuff. I was sick one day and my brother gave me a bunch of them. I thought tagamet was OTC?
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MeowMix96
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Re: Hydrocodone help [Re: shortpork]
#14506623 - 05/24/11 08:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
aZipoftheTRIP said: I know that grapefruit juice potentates hydrocodone but is that it? Would grape or apple juice or any other juice for that matter do anything? Thanks
I would say that grapefruit juice is unique in that regard. Apple and grape juice don't do anything. Also grapefruit juice diminishes effects of some opiates, but I couldn't tell you which ones it increases and which are diminished. Do some searching and you'll find out.
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Pigasus
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Re: Hydrocodone help [Re: MeowMix96]
#14506638 - 05/24/11 08:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm really not sure whether it's OTC or not, when I used it i was under the impression that it was available by prescription but perhaps it varies by location or has changed in the past couple of years, but regardless of that it's definitely an effective potentiator.
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shortpork
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Re: Hydrocodone help [Re: Pigasus]
#14506731 - 05/24/11 08:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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How long before taking the hydro do you take it?
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MeowMix96
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Re: Hydrocodone help [Re: shortpork]
#14506768 - 05/24/11 08:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
aZipoftheTRIP said: How long before taking the hydro do you take it?
I think it was 40 mins-1 hour
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openmind
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Re: Hydrocodone help [Re: MeowMix96]
#14507660 - 05/24/11 11:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
MeowMix96 said: ....Also grapefruit juice diminishes effects of some opiates, but I couldn't tell you which ones it increases and which are diminished.....
^This^
The reason grapefruit juice in particular works is because it possesses enzyme inhibitors, causing the metabolism of certain drugs to slow down there for the "drug" is in your system longer.
The thing is, once in your body hydrocodone is metabolized into the more potent opioid hydromorphone (what dilaudid is). So, if you inhibit the enzyme that metabolizes hydrocodone into hydromorphone I would assume there would be a diminished effect, though over all the effects may last longer.....I'm not 100% sure on that, maybe someone else with more knowledge on how enzyme inhibitors interact with opiates could chime in....
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BothHands
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Re: Hydrocodone help [Re: openmind]
#14507685 - 05/24/11 11:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
openmind said: The thing is, once in your body hydrocodone is metabolized into the more potent opioid hydromorphone (what dilaudid is). So, if you inhibit the enzyme that metabolizes hydrocodone into hydromorphone I would assume there would be a diminished effect, though over all the effects may last longer.....I'm not 100% sure on that, maybe someone else with more knowledge on how enzyme inhibitors interact with opiates could chime in.... .
Correct.
Grapefruit juice will also virtually eliminate the activity of codeine and tramadol. It will increase duration of hydrocodone but reduce activity. But is very effective for oral doses of oxy, morphine, dilaudid, methadone, and many others.**
** see post
Edited by BothHands (05/25/11 01:17 AM)
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openmind
curious
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Re: Hydrocodone help [Re: BothHands]
#14507739 - 05/24/11 11:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Cool, glad to hear my assumption was correct. I've always wondered about that aspect of enzyme inhibitors and opiates, no one has ever given me a simple straight forward answer in regards to that.
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BothHands
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Re: Hydrocodone help [Re: openmind]
#14507789 - 05/25/11 12:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've found enzyme inhibitors to be really weird with hydrocodone though. I don't know if grapefruit juice inhibits enzymes in the liver. It might just inhibit enzymes in the GI tract. I'm not sure. But diphenhydramine inhibits the enzymes in the liver. When taking DPH before 7.5mg hydrocodone, I found a significant reduction in effects, but when I took 25mg DPH 15 minutes after dosing, and another 25mg 45 mins after dosing, I had an extremely powerful intoxication akin to taking a good 20-30mg. So it's pretty variable...
I made a mistake when mentioning oxy though. Oxycodone is turned into oxymorphone via CYP2D6, so grapefruit juice could decrease it's effects.
But methadone, dilaudid, and morphine will definitely be significantly increased in activity.**
** see here
Edited by BothHands (05/25/11 01:16 AM)
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openmind
curious
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Re: Hydrocodone help [Re: BothHands]
#14507928 - 05/25/11 12:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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From what I understand the inhibitors in grapefruit juice generally affect the GI tract but in higher amounts can cause hepatic inhibition .
Interesting, I did not know DPH had enzyme inhibitor properties to it. I always found low doses of DPH to have synergy with opiates in the aspect of relieving itch and adding to the sedation....But that makes a lot of sense now that I think about it. I've experimented a bit with DPH & opiates and have noticed somewhat diminished effects a few of the times, so much so I stopped taking DPH with opiates. But there were a few occasions where I experienced an incredible warm fuzzy synergy with the two on more or less the same dosage.
I was a bit confused as to why the effects of the two (DPH and Hydrocodone) were so variable, but it all makes sense now .
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BothHands
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Re: Hydrocodone help [Re: openmind]
#14507996 - 05/25/11 01:11 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I actually made up a list that I could share. I have it saved on my desktop. I actually made it up after a very bad reaction caused by DPH's inhibition of CYP2D6. The list is far from complete, though, and is missing some information that would be very useful. If anyone has it, let me know.
Ambien Metabolized by CYP3A4
Dextromethorphan is mostly metabolized by CYP2D6. Minor metabolism by CYP3A4, CYP3A5
Diphenhydramine is metabolized by CYP2D6 (80%) and CYP3A4 (10%) Potent competitive inhibitor of CYP2D6
A different source suggests Diphenhydramine is not metabolized at all by CYP2D6, but only inhibits it
Tramadol is O-desmethylated by CYP2D6.
Claratin is metabolized by CYP2D6 and CYP3A4.
Grapefruit Juice is a potent CYP3A4 inhibitor.
Pseudoephedrine and phenylephrine are metabolized by unknown CYP enzymes. Likely CYP2D6
Promethazine inhibits CYP2D6
Oxycodone: Primary CYP3A4, secondary CYP2D6
Oxycodone metabolized to oxymorphone via CYP2D6.
Quercetin (Chamomile) inhibits CYP2C9. Unclear whether it induces or inhibits CYP3A4
Ethanol induces CYP3A, specifically CYP3A4 in the intestines, not liver. Induces CYP2E1
Fentanyl metabolized by CYP3A4
MDMA metabolized by CYP2D6
Methadone metabolized by CYP3A4, CYP2B6 and CYP2D6
Hydrocodone metabolized to hydromorphone by CYP2D6
Codeine primarily metabolized by UGT2B7 to codeine-6-glucuronide (primary active compound) and morphine. Only about 5% metabolized by CYP2D6.
I'm really sleepy, so I may have made some mistakes on which opiates are increased by grapefruit juice. Forgot different opiates were metabolized by different enzymes. I gave some bad information. Morphine, for example, is mostly metabolized by something completely different, though grapefruit juice will affect the CYP metabolism, it won't affect the primary metabolism.
It seems the info I used to know on codeine has been changed significantly, and I've changed it in my list.
Soo 100% certainty that it'll potentiate methadone, fentanyl, and oxycodone. Don't know about the others.
I'm gonna go edit some of the misinformation in my other posts.
Edited by BothHands (05/25/11 01:19 AM)
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Le_Canard
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Re: Hydrocodone help [Re: Pigasus]
#14508021 - 05/25/11 01:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pigasus said: I'm really not sure whether it's OTC or not, when I used it i was under the impression that it was available by prescription but perhaps it varies by location or has changed in the past couple of years, but regardless of that it's definitely an effective potentiator.
Yes, it's OTC now. They started selling it like that a few years ago.
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