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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #14506991 - 05/24/11 09:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Quote:

xFrockx said:
"How are they fucked up?"




Whoa, calm down!




Nah, he was responding within context of the conversation. Not getting upset.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #14506995 - 05/24/11 09:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Why did you tell me to calm down? I'm genuinely curious. Did that sentence seem strong?

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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: xFrockx]
    #14507023 - 05/24/11 09:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I thought "How are they fucked up?"

And I thought like a tough attitude, kinda angry


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: xFrockx] * 1
    #14507099 - 05/24/11 09:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
"A recent one was when you're saying groups don't exist. That was a nice example where you were conceptually confused and unable to see the forest for the trees. "

How so? No one said anything in that thread that would contradict the claim that groups don't exist. I'd be the first to admit I don't really know if groups do or do not exist. I see what I see, I can tell you that, but if there is some "essence" of groupdom that really exists, then I would be wrong. I just don't know where or if such a thing exists.




But in line with your line of thinking, there is no evidence or argument that could indicate that even an individual exists. So while you are presupposing that, then of course no one can contradict you. But your perspective from that angle only is showing a small part of the picture. Like you alluded to later, "What the rub is is that we are not anything, but yet we are. What we are is what we are."... So we can not exist and yet also exist... And therefore, following on from your own use of logic, groups can not exist and yet exist. Groups are what groups are. But seeing as observation of a group usually comes down to a pragmatics, and if we define truth here by "workability", to say that groups don't exist turns into conceptual nonsense despite it making sense at a unpractical level. An atom, a person, a group, they are each a gestalt which exist to the extent at which we focus on the overall pattern instead of the individual parts (which was what I was hinting at in the other thread). By exist I mean, they can be perceived, like I can perceive a car instead or as well as a bunch of random mechanical parts, like I can perceive a person instead or as well as a bunch of body parts, like I can perceive a group of people instead of or as well as each individual person in the group.

Got to dash, might pick it up again later...


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: [Re: Mufungo]
    #14507136 - 05/24/11 10:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"But in line with your line of thinking, there is no evidence or argument that could indicate that even an individual exists."

Yep.


"So while you are presupposing that, then of course no one can contradict you. But your perspective from that angle only is showing a small part of the picture."

Its not really my perspective, I don't believe it because I don't know if it is correct. It is A perspective, not my perspective. The only perspective I keep is the one from my head.

"Like you alluded to later, "What the rub is is that we are not anything, but yet we are. What we are is what we are."... So we can not exist and yet also exist... And therefore, following on from your own use of logic, groups can not exist and yet exist."

Yeah that was all BS on my part, I shouldn't have written it.

"Groups are what groups are. But seeing as observation of a group usually comes down to a pragmatics, and if we define truth here by "workability", to say that groups don't exist turns into conceptual nonsense despite it making sense at a unpractical level."

One man's trash is another man's treasure. :shrug:


"An atom, a person, a group, they are each a gestalt which exist to the extent at which we focus on the overall pattern instead of the individual parts (which was what I was hinting at in the other thread). By exist I mean, they can be perceived, like I can perceive a car instead or as well as a bunch of random mechanical parts, like I can perceive a person instead or as well as a bunch of body parts, like I can perceive a group of people instead of or as well as each individual person in the group."

Ok, about this gestalt stuff, I've always wondered how a whole can be more than the sum of its parts. I think to myself "But isn't a whole exactly the sum of its parts?" For example:

".."

Is that a group of two periods, or two individual periods? Is it a face? Or is it just what it is?

Edited by xFrockx (05/24/11 10:10 PM)

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #14507189 - 05/24/11 10:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This is interesting to me. If someone said to you "You got some fucked up beliefs there" would you ever ask, "How are they fucked up?"

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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: xFrockx]
    #14507229 - 05/24/11 10:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I would probably laugh at them/with them. If I didn't like the person I might confront them with "how are they fucked up?"

It just feels confrontational to me and honestly I try to avoid any conflict these days. It's not very assertive but it's better than possibly making someone dislike me.

I have to get approval from everyone or I am not a worthy person :crazy2:


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #14507687 - 05/24/11 11:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So do you feel it is like conflict to ask a person what you did wrong? Or is it because you wouldn't curse at them or some other reason?

Edited by xFrockx (05/24/11 11:49 PM)

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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: xFrockx]
    #14508934 - 05/25/11 09:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

So do you feel it is like conflict to ask a person what you did wrong?




yes


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #14509068 - 05/25/11 09:58 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

For them or for you?

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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: xFrockx]
    #14509103 - 05/25/11 10:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

both


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #14509115 - 05/25/11 10:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

How do you know it is for them? Personally if I tried to give someone advice and they laughed at me I would feel there was more conflict there, like they weren't open to being told what they did "wrong."

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: xFrockx]
    #14509612 - 05/25/11 12:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry, couldn't find the original thread, but groups exist because they have some similar or identical attribute, or attributes shared between their members ?
That's funny because one can regroup everything very fast with this and that. Btw that's also the 'dogma' (missing word... maybe 'postulation') behind the mathematical philosophy of algebra.
Without 'grouping', no addition would be possible :grin:
Does one group the brown cows or the black cows, or better the ones with more or less milk...

edit: nevertheless it's a quite abstract process as I don't know of any real 'identity' of two things which could be pretended.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Edited by BlueCoyote (05/25/11 12:27 PM)

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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: xFrockx] * 1
    #14509623 - 05/25/11 12:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
If you were tying your boat to a dock and I notice that you've made a mistake in the knot, should I just pass you by?



I typically take this policy. The only way some people learn most of the time is by making mistakes.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: xFrockx]
    #14509646 - 05/25/11 12:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Anybody who can't tie a rope around a cleat properly shouldn't have a boat.  Darwin's law as it relates to boat ownership.  Proper, safe boat operation is serious business not to be taken lightly.  If they can't even tie a knot they need to lose their boat and never get another one.  Before their stupid ass gets somebody killed.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14509675 - 05/25/11 12:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So... Death to the dissidents?


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14509694 - 05/25/11 12:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What?  Hopefully the idiot's boat will float away and he won't endanger anyone.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14509733 - 05/25/11 12:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Just mucking about. Sometimes I find it's hard to tell if nature favours the foolish or if the smartest are those who live in accordance with nature's ills.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: xFrockx]
    #14509828 - 05/25/11 01:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Why do you contradict everything I say!?

I DO NOT contradict everything you say. :razz:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: "Why do you contradict everything I say!?" [Re: Diploid]
    #14509930 - 05/25/11 01:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Why do you contradict everything I say!?

I DO NOT contradict everything you say. :razz:



Yes you do.


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