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Offlineblujay
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: mellowparty]
    #14504159 - 05/24/11 12:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mellowparty said:
I feel like I'm addicted to it :shrug: Say I have a random stash of drugs (including all recreational classes) I can abstain from anything in the stash apart from the weedz. I'd compulsively smoke it as soon as I wake up. Everything else will be in place for months but the weed will disappear in several days. I won't feel particularly shitty after heavy use, maybe feel a bit less hungry and agitated but thats all.

But if I happen to see a picture of a rolled joint


or just smell them budz I'd find it very hard not to smoke some provided there's any available.

I'm not complaining or anything, its not a problem most of the times but I've heard so many times people saying that weed is non-addictive. The most hardcore users I know would get offended if I tell them they're addicted, but if they go without weed for a whole fucking day then they wont stop complaining about it :dudewtf:




Because when you stop smoking it, you don't start throwing chairs out of windows, roiling in a writhing cold sweat with pain like rail road spikes being slowly pushed through your abdomen keeping you awake for upwards of two weeks.

If you can't handle weed I pity your weak resolve. There are times I really, really wish I had some ganja, but if I don't have the money to eat afterwards I just go without and I'm no less comfortable for the lack. I wouldn't suck dick for a sack, either.

You're psychologically addicted, it's part of your routine. I get the same feeling if I'm deprived of my morning caffiene, and still crave the kick of nicotine even though I am no longer a daily smoker.


--------------------

wat man rly

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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: Maverick]
    #14504165 - 05/24/11 12:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
Cigarettes were easy to quit, because when you OD on them you feel sick as shit.  Go huff an entire pack of cigs in a few hours, I guarantee you'll have the spins and feel ill for a few hours, that nasty nicotine buzz.

That's what got me to quit, after 2.5 years of heavy smoking.  Was on a roadtrip, smoked like 3 packs in a day, when I got home I almost puked.  It's really really hard to do that with weed.  I've sat around ripping hash-oil, bongrips, more hash, eating hash food, highest I'd ever been, couldn't hold my eyes open (a true welcoming to humboldt/mendo), and still never felt 'sick'.  It helps to form a habit when something doesn't cause you to feel sick when you either do it or quit it.


Depression and anxiety are a far-cry from ulcers, puking and physical muscle spasms from withdrawal.  Anxiety and depression are psychological.



Quote:

Maverick said:
Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

Maverick said:
Badchad, there are minor physical changes, however, the extent of them isn't like that of an alcohol or meth addiction.




Not necessarily true.  People can experience severe vomiting and nauses from withdrawal of antipsychotics. and debilitating headaches from SSRI withdrawal.

There have been marijuana withdrawal studies where oral THC prevents withdrawal symptoms, and it's given under double blind conditions which strongly suggests it's not secondray to stress or "all in your head".  Again though, physical withdrawal is just one component.




Thank god marijuana isn't an antipsychotic (typical or atypical).  (Also before bringing up pure THC, remember cannabinoids react with THC and change how it affects the body, a THC high is different from smoking marijuana).




Yeah we know too less about all the other cannabinoids, I do believe CBD does serve as an antipsychotic

:shrug:

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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: Maverick]
    #14504166 - 05/24/11 12:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:

Thank god marijuana isn't an antipsychotic (typical or atypical).  (Also before bringing up pure THC, remember cannabinoids react with THC and change how it affects the body, a THC high is different from smoking marijuana).




I just meant to show that you can have severe physical withdrawal in the absence of "addiction".  My other point was that MJ withdrawal is not necessarily due to  stress of "being in the head", but due to the absence of exogenous chemicals.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineMaverick
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: badchad]
    #14504173 - 05/24/11 12:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So you're claiming you can't be addicted to SSRIs, antipsychotics, benzos, etc?  I disagree.  I've seen plenty of people addicted to them.

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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: Beanhead]
    #14504174 - 05/24/11 12:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You can die from benzo/alcohol/opiate withdrawals


AND IF IT ISNT PHYSICAL IT ISNT ADDICTIVE


it's all in your head mang

:cheers:

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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: Maverick]
    #14504201 - 05/24/11 12:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
So you're claiming you can't be addicted to SSRIs, antipsychotics, benzos, etc?  I disagree.  I've seen plenty of people addicted to them.




No.  I'm claiming physical withdrawal is one component of a set of behaviors that make up "addiction".  You can have "addiction" with, or without physical dependence, and vice versa (e.g. severe physical withdrawal without addicition).


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineMaverick
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: Beanhead]
    #14504205 - 05/24/11 12:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Beanhead said:
You can die from benzo/alcohol/opiate withdrawals


AND IF IT ISNT PHYSICAL IT ISNT ADDICTIVE


it's all in your head mang

:cheers:





So you're saying that only physical addiction is addiction?  I don't know.  I can definitely agree that both physical and psychological addiction are on a different plane, psychological addiction is still an addiction.

Quote:

Historically, addiction has been defined as physical and psychological dependence on psychoactive substances (for example alcohol, tobacco, heroin and other drugs) which cross the blood-brain barrier once ingested, temporarily altering the chemical milieu of the brain.





Oh, now I see where you're coming from.  Yes you can have physical withdrawals without a psychological addiction.  But your body is addicted to it otherwise you wouldn't have withdrawals.

I guess you could relabel it 'dependance' rather than addiction to sugarcoat it...

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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: Maverick]
    #14504234 - 05/24/11 12:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
Quote:

Beanhead said:
You can die from benzo/alcohol/opiate withdrawals


AND IF IT ISNT PHYSICAL IT ISNT ADDICTIVE


it's all in your head mang

:cheers:





So you're saying that only physical addiction is addiction?  I don't know.  I can definitely agree that both physical and psychological addiction are on a different plane, psychological addiction is still an addiction.

Quote:

Historically, addiction has been defined as physical and psychological dependence on psychoactive substances (for example alcohol, tobacco, heroin and other drugs) which cross the blood-brain barrier once ingested, temporarily altering the chemical milieu of the brain.







Read my earlier posts

Nope I just think people are too afraid of the word addiction and therefore don't want to associate it with weed then compare it to other drugs which have a diffirent mechanism of action.

That doesn't make sense, it's comparing apples to oranges.

And actually it isn't psychological as the THC inhibits the GABA-a thus making it physical.

does it matter what kind it is, it :feelsgoodman: ofcourse it is addictive.

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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #14504241 - 05/24/11 12:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Beanhead said:

**Nora Laaris et. al., "Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol is a full agonist at CB1 receptors on GABA neuron axon terminals in the hippocampus." Neuropharmacology, Vol. 59, No. 1-2, 121-127. 2010.[

**A. Hoffman, "Mechanisms of Cannabinoid Inhibition of GABA-A Synaptic Transmission in the Hippocampus." J. Neurosci., 20(7):2470-2479. 2000.

Marijuana causes a physiological reaction that causes anxiety.

Depression of growth hormone and cortisol response to insulin-induced hypoglycemia after prolonged oral delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol administration in man.

Six hospitalized volunteer male subjects were given insulin, 0.15 U/kg, before and after 14 days of administration of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) at a dose of 210 mg/day. A diminished maximal serum human growth hormone (GH) increase followed the prolonged THC ingestion. The mean maximal GH response was: 52.6 ng/ml +/- 8.7 (+/-SE) before THC and 18.8 ng/ml +/- 6.7 (+/-SE) during THC, P less than 0.01; corresponding cortisol responses were 20.1 mug/dl +/- 3.0 before THC and 10.0 mug/dl +/- 1.1 during THC, P less than 0.05. The data suggest suppression of the hypothalamic-pituitary axis after prolonged high dose THC use. This is consistent with other reported endocrine effects of marijuana in man.



Gamma-aminobutyric acid B receptor 1 mediates behavior-impairing actions of alcohol in Drosophila: adult RNA interference and pharmacological evidence.

Department of Psychiatry, Psychiatric Institute, University of Illinois, Chicago, IL 60612, USA.

In addition to their physiological function, metabotropic receptors for neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), the GABA(B) receptors, may play a role in the behavioral actions of addictive compounds. Recently, GABA(B) receptors were cloned in fruit flies (Drosophila melanogaster), indicating that the advantages of this experimental model could be applied to GABA(B) receptor research. RNA interference (RNAi) is an endogenous process triggered by double-stranded RNA and is being used as a tool for functional gene silencing and functional genomics. Here we show how cell-nonautonomous RNAi can be induced in adult fruit flies to silence a subtype of GABA(B) receptors, GABA(B)R1, and how RNAi combined with pharmacobehavioral techniques (including intraabdominal injections of active compounds and a computer-assisted quantification of behavior) can be used to functionally characterize these receptors. We observed that injection of double-stranded RNA complementary to GABA(B)R1 into adult Drosophila selectively destroys GABA(B)R1 mRNA and attenuates the behavioral actions of the GABA(B) agonist, 3-aminopropyl-(methyl)phosphinic acid. Moreover, both GABA(B)R1 RNAi and the GABA(B) antagonist CGP 54626 reduced the behavior-impairing effects of ethanol, suggesting a putative role for the Drosophila GABA(B) receptors in alcohol's mechanism of action. The Drosophila model we have developed can be used for further in vivo functional characterization of GABA(B) receptor subunits and their involvement in the molecular and systemic actions of addictive substances.





If I understand this study correctly then they're giving them 210mg of pure THC a day, orally.  Lets assume for these purposes that the oral BA of THC is 100%, because I don't know what it is and a quick google couldn't turn anything up for me.  I'd say its a safe bet to assume most people here just smoke marijuana in one device or another.  For the sake of this argument, let's say that smoking BA is 30%.  Let's also assume that we're smoking weed with 10% THC, so its pretty reasonably dank.  In order to reach the levels of THC that this study used, you'd have to smoke ~6.3 grams of weed a day.  I wish these studies would actually use reasonable numbers, most people aren't going to smoke nearly a quad of good weed a day.  I'd say my own personal consumption is typically ~.2 a day of some dank when I smoke, generally speaking.  Sometimes more, sometimes less, sometimes none.  Assuming the same numbers as before I'd be consuming more like 6 mg of THC a day, which is hardly close to the amount the study used.

Quote:

Mush 4 Brains said:
Quote:

Cigarettes are easy to justify quitting.  After you smoke a few you don't get any buzz anymore, you're just killing yourself.  Weed is fun and there's very few side effects.





Weed gave me just as bad of a cough/ shortness of breath as cigs.  I wouldn't call cigarettes a buzz, but quite enjoyable and soothing to me.  There are side effects from marijuana, and i'd argue anyone (who is a daily smoker) who says there are none, is delusional.  If you want to compare it to meth or something way out there, than of course there are negligible adverse effects in comparison.





No way man.  I'm a musician and I use my lungs every day and I run and you can't compare tobacco with marijuana.  Could easily just be quantity smoked but THC is a bronchiodilator, nicotine is the opposite which is going to make a big difference by itself.  I don't have any chronic cough since I stopped smoking tobacco years ago and I still like to smoke weed daily when I can and my lungs feel so much cleaner.

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OfflineMaverick
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: Beanhead]
    #14504252 - 05/24/11 12:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Honestly beanhead, I think we're on the same page but we aren't wording things right so it makes it seem like we're contradicting each other... :shrug:


The one thing I will say though, is all 'psychological' things can be linked to a physical change in brain chemistry, therefor yes, anything 'psychological' could technically be classified as physical, it's just easier to keep that in its own category and not cross the brain chemistry boundary vs the rest of the body.  At least that's how I perceive differences in physical and mental.

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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: Maverick]
    #14504262 - 05/24/11 12:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Stupid language barrier :lol: yeah I was thinking the same but i'm probably misinterpreting a few things here and there.

and mastro I agree those studies always apply copious amounts but to be honest I smoke 5-6 grams every two days :blush:

Ofcourse smoking as little as 0,2 everyday is not going to affect you.

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OfflineMaverick
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: Beanhead]
    #14504269 - 05/24/11 12:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I love smoking pot, it makes me 'feels good man'.  :O

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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: Maverick]
    #14504278 - 05/24/11 12:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

:feelsgoodman:












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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: Maverick]
    #14504283 - 05/24/11 12:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:curbyourenthusiasm:

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Offlineblujay
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: AgingHippy]
    #14504286 - 05/24/11 12:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If you define addiction as routine psychosocial attachment, I am addicted to Dr. Phil (lolsrslyguise?) and Minecraft...


--------------------

wat man rly

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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: blujay]
    #14504317 - 05/24/11 12:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Beanhead said:
Stupid language barrier :lol: yeah I was thinking the same but i'm probably misinterpreting a few things here and there.

and mastro I agree those studies always apply copious amounts but to be honest I smoke 5-6 grams every two days :blush:

Ofcourse smoking as little as 0,2 everyday is not going to affect you.





Oh I'm aware that there are plenty of heavier smokers out there but the vast majority of people that smoke weed, in my experience, don't smoke every day.. or if they do, certainly not all day.  I've quit heavier habits like that cold turkey before and still had no symptoms to speak of.  Out of curiosity are we talking regs or dank here?  I pretty much only buy locally grown fire so its always top notch, I couldn't imagine smoking an eighth of it a day and getting a thing done.

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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: saxcidjazz]
    #14504331 - 05/24/11 12:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Dutch weed or homegrown :happyweed:

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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: Beanhead]
    #14504343 - 05/24/11 12:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:vaped:

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Invisibletrekie
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: AgingHippy]
    #14504556 - 05/24/11 01:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I do have a physiological probelm  thats why I have trouble sleeping nightmares and shit.

Compared to the effects I see when other people are just being pumped full of all these different meds that should never be taken together.

Weed is the thing that kept me sane the last 9 years. (to a reltive degree :smirk:) .

So I choose the lesser of the two evils I guess it works for me only do the natural shit mostly now :wink:


--------------------
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Why do so many people claim that weed is non-addictive? [Re: trekie]
    #14504572 - 05/24/11 01:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Whoa that's another thing I forgot

The vivid dreams/nightmares, waking up all sweaty at night when I haven't toked for a while.

:feelsweirdman:

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