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smokey1445
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Picking early pins to promote even flushes?
#14503927 - 05/24/11 11:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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So from past experience I have had many many aborts from uneven pin sets, since they grow in flushes not one by one. The bigger pins grow leaving the smaller ones behind to abort.
It has been recommended to pick early pins. The logic behind this is since they grow in flushes, the energy would be put back into the 200+ pins instead of being used for the larger ones.
My set-up,
Substrate- PF cake with horse manure Casing- Coco Coir
Monotub - FAE 5-7 times a day with misting and fan blowing in room 24/7
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smokey1445
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14504071 - 05/24/11 12:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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There has to be someone with past experience with this? I think I might go ahead and pick the larger ones if I dont hear anything soon
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14504095 - 05/24/11 12:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Fist of all, you're supposed to wait 24 hours before bumping your own thread, not six minutes.
Second, stop listening to noobs without a clue. Who says the mycelium is supposed to fruit in nice even flushes? Most strains produce individual fruits, as yours is doing. Picking early pins does not cause an even flush, but rather it screws up your total harvest.
If you want nice neat flushes, you'll have to isolate a strain that does so. Until then, pick fruits as they're ready. You can clean the aborts off whenever you want to, or wait until after the block is spent.
The long stems and tiny caps indicate insufficient fresh air supply and possibly insufficient light as well. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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cappsnstems
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14504138 - 05/24/11 12:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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i would just leave them if i were you. But, I'm not an "expert". all I have is novice experience.
I had this happen and I just waited until the absolute last minute to harvest the big ones. the smaller ones were estimated to be harvested 1-3 days later.
as far as aborts, I think you should be fine.
think of it this way: would you rather let those big guys finish out their growth, and you know that they're gonna get big... OR pick them and HOPE that the pins get enough nutrients to grow big.
I would let those big guys grow.
-------------------- be good humans. <3<3<3 i support headypoo!
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: cappsnstems]
#14504156 - 05/24/11 12:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
OR pick them and HOPE that the pins get enough nutrients to grow big.
That's not how it works with mushrooms. Less nutrients are better at fruiting time. Mushrooms don't grow the way plants do. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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smokey1445
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14504197 - 05/24/11 12:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Fist of all, you're supposed to wait 24 hours before bumping your own thread, not six minutes.
Second, stop listening to noobs without a clue. Who says the mycelium is supposed to fruit in nice even flushes? Most strains produce individual fruits, as yours is doing. Picking early pins does not cause an even flush, but rather it screws up your total harvest.
If you want nice neat flushes, you'll have to isolate a strain that does so. Until then, pick fruits as they're ready. You can clean the aborts off whenever you want to, or wait until after the block is spent.
The long stems and tiny caps indicate insufficient fresh air supply and possibly insufficient light as well. RR
Thanks for the response.
Sorry for the bump, didnt realize the 24 hr thing.
Its wasnt a noob but rather it looked like someone who was well trusted, thats why I was considering the advice. I spent the last few hours looking for this post with no success.
Do you have any idea why it would screw up the harvest, if I were to cut a few before they mature? Not that I dont trust you, I just like to be informed of the reasons
Edited by smokey1445 (05/24/11 12:21 PM)
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cappsnstems
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: cappsnstems]
#14504213 - 05/24/11 12:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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PS...
I think you need a bigger container for your perlite/tray terrarium. there should be some open space between the walls of the container and trays for the moisture to circulate up from the perlite. The moisture will only collect on the bottoms of the lips of the trays...
-------------------- be good humans. <3<3<3 i support headypoo!
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cappsnstems
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14504246 - 05/24/11 12:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
OR pick them and HOPE that the pins get enough nutrients to grow big.
That's not how it works with mushrooms. Less nutrients are better at fruiting time. Mushrooms don't grow the way plants do. RR
sorry, my wording was wrong. I was trying to convey a response from this phrase in the original post: "The logic behind this is since they grow in flushes, the energy would be put back into the 200+ pins instead of being used for the larger ones. "
all in all, the latter of the two options is not the wisest.
-------------------- be good humans. <3<3<3 i support headypoo!
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smokey1445
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: cappsnstems]
#14504247 - 05/24/11 12:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
cappsnstems said: PS...
I think you need a bigger container for your perlite/tray terrarium. there should be some open space between the walls of the container and trays for the moisture to circulate up from the perlite. The moisture will only collect on the bottoms of the lips of the trays...
I know, I have have 5 containers of different shapes and sizes, whatever I could find. I have no money right now, beggars cant be choosers
Edited by smokey1445 (05/24/11 12:28 PM)
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cappsnstems
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14504255 - 05/24/11 12:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
smokey1445 said:
Quote:
cappsnstems said: PS...
I think you need a bigger container for your perlite/tray terrarium. there should be some open space between the walls of the container and trays for the moisture to circulate up from the perlite. The moisture will only collect on the bottoms of the lips of the trays...
I know, I have have 5 containers of different shapes and sizes, whatever I could find. I have no money right now, beggars cant be choosers 
fo sho fo sho. I know how it is buddy!
-------------------- be good humans. <3<3<3 i support headypoo!
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smokey1445
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: cappsnstems]
#14504257 - 05/24/11 12:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
cappsnstems said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
OR pick them and HOPE that the pins get enough nutrients to grow big.
That's not how it works with mushrooms. Less nutrients are better at fruiting time. Mushrooms don't grow the way plants do. RR
sorry, my wording was wrong. I was trying to convey a response from this phrase in the original post: "The logic behind this is since they grow in flushes, the energy would be put back into the 200+ pins instead of being used for the larger ones. "
all in all, the latter of the two options is not the wisest.
When I say energy, I dont mean nutrition
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smokey1445
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14504297 - 05/24/11 12:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Now I remember who it was, It was hyphae who had said this and it didnt sound like it was just a theory
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cappsnstems
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14504413 - 05/24/11 01:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- be good humans. <3<3<3 i support headypoo!
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smokey1445
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: cappsnstems]
#14504523 - 05/24/11 01:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
cappsnstems said: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/13231567
Yea thanks, thats related to it but not the exact post I was speaking about
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smokey1445
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14504617 - 05/24/11 01:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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gofudgeyourself
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14504793 - 05/24/11 02:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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usually, imoe, the first pins are the biggest and they have the genetics to pin quickly..clone those bad boys and use them for your next grow and youll have a nice even pinset (assuming you correctly induce fruiting).
i cant think of any reason to pick early pins.
-------------------- "believe it if you need it, or leave it if you dare." "turn all the hate in the world, into a mocking bird. make it fly away"
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14504822 - 05/24/11 02:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
smokey1445 said:
Quote:
cappsnstems said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
OR pick them and HOPE that the pins get enough nutrients to grow big.
That's not how it works with mushrooms. Less nutrients are better at fruiting time. Mushrooms don't grow the way plants do. RR
sorry, my wording was wrong. I was trying to convey a response from this phrase in the original post: "The logic behind this is since they grow in flushes, the energy would be put back into the 200+ pins instead of being used for the larger ones. "
all in all, the latter of the two options is not the wisest.
When I say energy, I dont mean nutrition
I'm curious what leads you to suspect the mushrooms are consuming energy rather than supplying it? At any rate, my experience from growing several million mushrooms is that picking early 'volunteers' isn't going to help deliver a better flush later. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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cyanara
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14504867 - 05/24/11 02:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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how well a sub is prepared as in moisture content and how even the moisture is throughout and how even the surface is has alot to do with things.. but genetics is 99% of te equation in this game.. get rid of the fan in the room. I run 20 tubs on a rack and don't use a fan, it will just end up drying out your sub or lowering your RH below 87-92%
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smokey1445
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14504936 - 05/24/11 02:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I'm curious what leads you to suspect the mushrooms are consuming energy rather than supplying it? At any rate, my experience from growing several million mushrooms is that picking early 'volunteers' isn't going to help deliver a better flush later. RR
Are you saying it may be possible that these 'volunteers' are actually promoting more energy to smaller pins? Can you explain?
From what I observed, these early volunteers are stunting the growth of the smaller pins. They continue growing while the smaller ones stall. During this time, specially if conditions are off, aborts are more likely to occur. It may not help the future flush directly but it may in this fashion.
All of nature works like this. Get your 'seed' out as fast as possible by using as little energy as possible for your species.
Either way, I have a few tubs with this going on right now and im going to experiment a bit. Ill leave one alone and pick the other.
Edited by smokey1445 (05/24/11 03:02 PM)
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smokey1445
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: cyanara]
#14504959 - 05/24/11 02:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
cyanara said: how well a sub is prepared as in moisture content and how even the moisture is throughout and how even the surface is has alot to do with things.. but genetics is 99% of te equation in this game.. get rid of the fan in the room. I run 20 tubs on a rack and don't use a fan, it will just end up drying out your sub or lowering your RH below 87-92%
Fan is also for my own comfort I think im going to start using clones again and solve this problem
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cyanara
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14504972 - 05/24/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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mycelium redirect energy as needed to fruits that are growing. these stalled pins are infact the second flush most likely and te fan with the crazy water/fanning schedule is whats doing em in... your running a fan in the room along with fanning multiple times a day and you have a tinny pan.. the more you obsesse and fuck with your project the more your going to harm it.
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smokey1445
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: cyanara]
#14505037 - 05/24/11 03:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
cyanara said: mycelium redirect energy as needed to fruits that are growing. these stalled pins are infact the second flush most likely and te fan with the crazy water/fanning schedule is whats doing em in... your running a fan in the room along with fanning multiple times a day and you have a tinny pan.. the more you obsesse and fuck with your project the more your going to harm it.
The fan is on super low and its not near the tubs.
Only one tub is small, the larger one has the same problem
Misting is only done when needed and I don't believe that fanning 5-7 times a day is causing this. Its kind of funny, RR said I may not be fanning enough (or it may be the lighting) b/c of the long skinny stems. Which I actually believe its my lighting
I think its mostly b/c it came from a Multispore syringe
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smokey1445
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14505052 - 05/24/11 03:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
cyanara said: mycelium redirect energy as needed to fruits that are growing. these stalled pins are infact the second flush
I don't know if I'd consider 10 mushrooms, only 1 1/2" bigger then the other 200, my first 'true' flush
Edited by smokey1445 (05/24/11 03:16 PM)
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14505165 - 05/24/11 03:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Pins for future flushes often form at time of first flush. They then remain dormant until their time comes. If there's a huge pinset, most will abort because a substrate can only support so much.
I've often read folks saying that picking early pins will stimulate a better flush later. My experience has been the opposite. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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smokey1445
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14505261 - 05/24/11 04:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Pins for future flushes often form at time of first flush. They then remain dormant until their time comes. If there's a huge pinset, most will abort because a substrate can only support so much.
In your experience, is it possible for the release of spores to cause aborts
Quote:
I've often read folks saying that picking early pins will stimulate a better flush later. My experience has been the opposite. RR
I believe I have an idea where this came about. I'm sure it holds true for late casings. One where you truly have just a few large pins set. I guess pulling these would encourage more pins to set. But in my case, all my pins are already set so it probably would do no good pulling them at this point.
Im sure I can find it in your note but how many watts at what distance is optimum? I have 1 27 watt at 3 feet and 1 15 watt at 6ft, both 6500k, right now I have it at 12/12
I had one mushroom fall over, I can probably clone this one and have all my guys start falling when their done.
Edited by smokey1445 (05/24/11 04:45 PM)
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scatmanrav
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14505330 - 05/24/11 04:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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What hyphae was talking about was picking one or two, not what you have going on there, a dozen or two. I'll pick up to 3 early pins on a casing..if theres more then 3 I wont.
I have noticed when one starts opening its cap (the biggest), the rest start opening theyre caps as if they know the flush is over. At least on some strains. Some strains just pop up some and then some more and more and never stop or work in flushes. Thats why I'll pick 1 or 2 if they straggled up early, if I dont see other pins yet. Once theres a pinset working, you leave it.
Any substrate that pops up that many pins will have a ton of aborts.. its just how it is.
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gofudgeyourself
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: cyanara]
#14505696 - 05/24/11 05:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
cyanara said: how well a sub is prepared as in moisture content and how even the moisture is throughout and how even the surface is has alot to do with things.. but genetics is 99% of te equation in this game..
get rid of the fan in the room. I run 20 tubs on a rack and don't use a fan, it will just end up drying out your sub or lowering your RH below 87-92%
not only does a far placed fan promote FAE but it keeps contams from settling down...
were trying to replicate an amazonian jungle, not a stale basement...a gentle breeze > no air movement.
-------------------- "believe it if you need it, or leave it if you dare." "turn all the hate in the world, into a mocking bird. make it fly away"
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smokey1445
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14510320 - 05/25/11 03:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Bumping it up, just wondering if anyone trusted could tell me how many watts of lighting they use?
Also I noticed that when spores drop this causes aborts, is this possible?
Thanks for all your help guys
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KrizzKaliko
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14510338 - 05/25/11 03:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
smokey1445 said: Bumping it up, just wondering if anyone trusted could tell me how many watts of lighting they use?
Most if not all people usually only use the low watt CFL's. A 13w 6500k bulb will do just fine for a dozen or so cakes. Double it up if you want to be on the brighter side. But remember, light isn't as important as most think it is. Adding more watts will only get you so far. Make sure they are all getting good light, and leave it at that. Don't bother trying to pump out 200W of light at them, they don't need it.
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smokey1445
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: KrizzKaliko]
#14511391 - 05/25/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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No no kind sir, light is pretty important! Remember your trying to mimic nature for best results, this is always the case and always will be.
And I actually have a casing not cakes, which causes a need for more light.
I tested this again and again. To prove my point, my most recent casings got a 27 watts light increase (6500K) at a closer distance, 12/12. So far, the stems are much fatter and not extremely long and caps are a good size (unlike my last batch which created a lot mushies but with very thin and long stems, as if they where trying to reach for the light[and i know mushrooms arent plants]).
These batches looks like they are going to create more fattys and it is DEFINITELY because of the light increase.
I'm curious what other people use for lighting and their results?
Also does anybody believe the dropping of spores could cause more aborts then people think?
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KrizzKaliko
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: smokey1445]
#14511739 - 05/25/11 08:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Imo, to say that it was DEFINITELY due to the light increase is a fail in logic. I doubt your studies were all that scientific in nature.
Either way, note that i did not say that it wasn't important. It very much is, and is a major pinning trigger. Im just saying that going from 15W to 30W of light etc, and expecting bigger fruits due to it alone, would be an incorrect assumption.
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scatmanrav
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Re: Picking early pins to promote even flushes? [Re: KrizzKaliko]
#14511780 - 05/25/11 08:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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A nice light is important, as are all factors. A bright CFL in the 6500k range works..the wattage doesnt matter that much, the brightest you can find. Mines around the 27 watt range. Internets got good bulb deals, and higher wattages.
I like to give casings that are pinning, or I want to pin 18 hours of light. Once the pins are set I back off the light and only give 8ish hours a day. I just manually turn it on whenever, but basically, to get pins, lots of light, once pinned less light. I've seen then grow up slower, and thus fatter with the lights off.
As far as aborts when the spores drop? I dont think the spores have anything to do with it..some strains the network seems to work together, even if it doesnt pin together. When the caps of the biggest start to open, so do the rest. The ones that cant produce the spores die because all energy is being put to reproduction? Thats only conjecture, but it does seem when one opens, they all do and stop. I dont think it aborts any that wouldnt have aborted anyway though. A substrate will only put out so many mushrooms to maturity, the rest must die.
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