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xFrockx


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 12 days, 16 hours
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Re: You can't judge an entire organization [Re: 4896744]
#14500926 - 05/23/11 07:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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"Of course ideas are either "true" or "false". Maybe we can't technically "know" which of the two it may be, but what else could it fall under, the purgatory for ideas? "
What do those two words mean? How do we even begin to decide how to categorize a statement as either?
How do we know that the statement "Statements are either true or false" is true or false?
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: You can't judge an entire organization [Re: xFrockx]
#14500929 - 05/23/11 07:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: "Well, understandable or not, that idea is either true or false..I think it's pretty clear which it is."
Lol, ideas are either true or false? Is that idea true or false, and how do you know?
It's called logic..never heard of it, eh?
Quote:
xFrockx said: "Groups are existent regardless of whether or not they are conceived of..a group of stars, for example, exists regardless of whether or not it is being conceived of."
What's there exists, its grouping is an idea.
What's there is a group.
Quote:
xFrockx said: "It doesn't make sense to say that something is not real, and existent through some fashion."
Why do you refuse to accept my definitions?
Because they are not logically consistent (i.e. they don't make sense).
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: You can't judge an entire organization [Re: xFrockx]
#14500955 - 05/23/11 08:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Truth value
Quote:
In logic and mathematics, a truth value, sometimes called a logical value, is a value indicating the relation of a proposition to truth. In classical logic, with its intended semantics, the truth values are true and false; that is, classical logic is a two-valued logic.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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xFrockx


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 12 days, 16 hours
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Re: You can't judge an entire organization [Re: Poid]
#14501060 - 05/23/11 08:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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"It's called logic..never heard of it, eh?"
Actually I have a degree in philosophy. I'm acquainted enough with logic to tell you that the idea you've shat down here is not at all completely accepted in the field.
"What's there is a group."
How so? What makes a group a group?
"Because they are not logically consistent (i.e. they don't make sense). "
How so? Why do they not make sense? What questions do you have?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: You can't judge an entire organization [Re: xFrockx]
#14501739 - 05/23/11 10:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Can we get back to hating on groups?
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: You can't judge an entire organization [Re: xFrockx]
#14502211 - 05/24/11 12:09 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: "Groups are existent regardless of whether or not they are conceived of..a group of stars, for example, exists regardless of whether or not it is being conceived of."
What's there exists, its grouping is an idea.
What is there that is also not a concept in your mind? Like iThink alluded to, each star is also a grouping.
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Mufungo
Coming at ya


Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 2,743
Loc: Knowhere
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: based on the actions of a few. Or even the action of the many. Even if 100% of the group's members are way, way-the-fuck out there, it still is not the group's fault. Organizations are blameless. Hate the individual.
Then even the individual often gets off scott free. It seems taking responsibility for one's actions is so passe.
If mother nature has taught anything, there's safety in groups... and the principles flow over to more recent conceptions of groups, companies, organisations, etc... So that when the "predator" comes along to "judge" the group... the members scurry every which way, so that only one or two of the group might be nabbed or sometimes through all the confusion, none get caught... and then maybe the predator gives up, focuses on "moving forward" and "not dwelling on past mistakes"... and the group survives to live another day, perhaps less a member or two... and onlookers resent the group for not "paying their dues"... while also resenting the predator for not being more effective at doing what it was intended for... And they all lived, somethingly ever after...
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Mufungo
Coming at ya


Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 2,743
Loc: Knowhere
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Re: You can't judge an entire organization [Re: Sleepwalker]
#14502583 - 05/24/11 01:41 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said:
Quote:
xFrockx said: "Groups are existent regardless of whether or not they are conceived of..a group of stars, for example, exists regardless of whether or not it is being conceived of."
What's there exists, its grouping is an idea.
What is there that is also not a concept in your mind? Like iThink alluded to, each star is also a grouping.
Get with the program. You can't even call yourself an individual when you're actually a bunch of atoms which happen to cohabitate the same space at the same time. Where's the "individual"? You don't exist.
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xFrockx


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 12 days, 16 hours
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Re: You can't judge an entire organization [Re: Sleepwalker]
#14503337 - 05/24/11 08:27 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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"What is there that is also not a concept in your mind?"
Is your sentence a concept in my mind? In one way it is, in another way I certainly can't change it like I would my imagination.
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xFrockx


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 12 days, 16 hours
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Re: You can't judge an entire organization [Re: Mufungo]
#14503345 - 05/24/11 08:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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"You can't even call yourself an individual when you're actually a bunch of atoms which happen to cohabitate the same space at the same time. Where's the "individual"? You don't exist."
Almost. The idea is not that we are atoms, because atoms are conceptually grouped matter as well and can be further divided down conceptually. What the rub is is that we are not anything, but yet we are. What we are is what we are. It is not anything, but it is.
It's hard to talk about this subject because what I'm trying to express is not words, but what they refer to.
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Mufungo
Coming at ya


Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 2,743
Loc: Knowhere
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Re: You can't judge an entire organization [Re: xFrockx]
#14503710 - 05/24/11 10:38 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's almost like we're a pattern that can't be described purely by the sum of our parts. And likewise a group is another pattern which can't be described purely by the sum it's parts. And so on... but by changing focus to the individual parts, the pattern disappears. ...or does it?! Like looking at a magic eye picture, depending on the way you look at it, the image that is most certainly there at some level, can also not be there at another.
The word "gestalt" comes to mind.
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