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OfflineSmegman
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Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 6
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Possible Amatoxin ingestion...
    #14497769 - 05/23/11 06:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hey guys,
So I did a really silly thing a few days ago and decided to trust my instincts. Using lemon juice method I ate a very small amount of what I assumed to be P. cubensis (also possible P. subaeruginosa) shortly after (around an hour) I fell asleep with no noticable effects, I may or may not have (could've been dreaming) woken up around 3 hours later, possibly tripping. Nearly exactly 48 hours later I had some more of the assumed to be psychoactive mushrooms and after 2 hours or so still had no effects, my friend also ate just one and had no effects. Just now I looked up some lookalikes and found Gallerina autumnalis, I realise now it looks alot alike (To me who really is pretty inexperienced).
So I have a few questions, What I had bruised to what appeared to be blue (can it bruise reeeeally dark blue though so it's a little hard to tell or should it be obvious), and when I chopped them on some paper the paper was stained blue. Could they still be any poisonous variety? Also, what are some symptoms I could expect and within how long of ingestion could I expect them if they indeed contained amatoxins? Also, just as a precautionary thing, without seeing a doctor or telling anyone or whatever is there anything I can do?
I will post some pictures tomorrow of the patch, the mushrooms and hopefully the bruising. I'm not sure how the quality will be though.

As you could imagine any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys.

To anyone else reading don't be as stupid as I was.

/Edit
I did not experience any vomiting or intense diarrhoea although now that it could be poisonous I'm getting cramps but that could be due to anxiety (which I get) or just psychosomatic.
Also with how I waited 48 hours, I know you have to wait a few days to have psychoactive mushrooms again due to quick immunity synthesis but I thought I'd try, so I don't know if that accounts for not tripping or not.


Edited by Smegman (05/23/11 06:12 AM)


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InvisibleMr.gym
Senor hongos
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 273
Loc: Northern V.A.
Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: Smegman]
    #14497796 - 05/23/11 06:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

D: post pics asap. did u take spore prints?? This is a little late but, when in doubt, throw it out


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OfflineSmegman
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Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 6
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: Mr.gym]
    #14497806 - 05/23/11 06:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah I'll be posting pics tomorrow, and no I didn't take spore prints even though I knew I should have. I will do that tomorrow aswell.


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Offlineshroomzi8
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Registered: 10/04/10
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Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: Mr.gym]
    #14497807 - 05/23/11 06:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

the blue staining says good, but the cramps say bad. post some pix of the offending fungus asap. there are experts here who will give you a positive id (or near as dammnit):goodluck:


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OfflineSmegman
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Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 6
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: shroomzi8]
    #14497817 - 05/23/11 06:33 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, the blue staining on the paper would suggest good to me 'cause that shit was bright blue, but the staining on the mushrooms was hard, it's quite dark with a blue tinge, I'm not sure if that's what a normal blue bruise looks like or what...


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OfflineDeliriumTrigger
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Registered: 04/13/11
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Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: Smegman]
    #14497955 - 05/23/11 07:42 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Smegman said:
Yeah I'll be posting pics tomorrow, and no I didn't take spore prints even though I knew I should have. I will do that tomorrow aswell.



I don't know if I'd risk waiting till tomorrow, if you can help it.


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OfflineLanLord
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Registered: 01/07/10
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Loc: San Mateo, Ca. USA
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Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: DeliriumTrigger]
    #14497979 - 05/23/11 07:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I have to think if you ingested amatoxins a few days ago (I believe I read that correctly) you'd have been horribly ill a couple times already.

There would be no mistaking simple cramps from puking your liver out and shitting blood!


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Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment.


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InvisibleCidneyIndole
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Registered: 05/16/05
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Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: LanLord]
    #14498454 - 05/23/11 10:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Smegman said:
Yeah, the blue staining on the paper would suggest good to me 'cause that shit was bright blue, but the staining on the mushrooms was hard, it's quite dark with a blue tinge, I'm not sure if that's what a normal blue bruise looks like or what...





Mushrooms that bruise do NOT necessarily indicate psilocin.


Quote:

LanLord said:
I have to think if you ingested amatoxins a few days ago (I believe I read that correctly) you'd have been horribly ill a couple times already.

There would be no mistaking simple cramps from puking your liver out and shitting blood!




The effect of amatoxins can manifest quickly, but there can also be a delay in some of the more severe effects.

Do try to get an ID if you can. More info here could help... but if you can get pics and/or a spore print and/or a description, you should start a new thread about it in the "mushroom ID" section.

Good luck.


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I am me. We are You.


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OfflineLanLord
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Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #14498520 - 05/23/11 11:10 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

How long do you expect that delay to be?  6 to 24 hours is common, 36 hours is rare but not unheard of. 

If the OP is stating ate them several days ago, I'd think he's hour of amatoxin danger period, but not out of the orellanin danger zone, but... I don't think he was worried about possible cort poisoning.


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Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment.


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InvisibleCidneyIndole
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Registered: 05/16/05
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Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: LanLord]
    #14498633 - 05/23/11 11:46 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LanLord said:
How long do you expect that delay to be?  6 to 24 hours is common, 36 hours is rare but not unheard of. 

If the OP is stating ate them several days ago, I'd think he's hour of amatoxin danger period, but not out of the orellanin danger zone, but... I don't think he was worried about possible cort poisoning.




I thought I recalled that fatality (from kidney failure) can be delayed as long as a week or two, but I could be wrong about that.

Regardless of this, by your timeline (24-36 hours) I am not sure this brings OP past the "danger zone"... I admit that I was a bit...spacy,in my initial comment. However, upon re-reading, the initial ingestion was "a few days ago" but more of the mushroom (how much more?) was consumed 48 hours after the first ingestion. If the first ingestion was 72 hours ago, and the second was about 24 hours ago, I would wonder if the dose could have elevated to a more "dangerous" level within the last 24 hours...

...that is, of course, ASSUMING that anything dangerous was actually consumed...

This involves quite a lot of guesswork and assumption. I would like to assume OP is okay and will be just fine, but a more accurate mushroom ID might be helpful. Based on lack of symptoms, I would say he's likely okay. Cramping can manifest in the body for all sorts of reasons... even, as mentioned, simply anxiety.

OP... about how much of this mystery shroom was consumed each time?


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I am me. We are You.


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OfflineLanLord
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Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #14498940 - 05/23/11 12:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, that second dose could be an issue.
Also, the delay of days or even a week or more until death occurs is certainly correct, but the onset of the symptoms is what I was pointing to. 

If the OP ate Galerina marginata in the same quantity that one would eat Ps. cubensis or even cyans then he would have been really ill by now.


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Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment.


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OfflineSmegman
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Registered: 05/23/11
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Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: LanLord]
    #14502777 - 05/24/11 03:20 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hey guys,
Think I'll be fine was just a bit freak haha. Thanks for all the help, I was unable to get a spore print today or pictures of the patch, but I did get a few pictures of some relatively immature mushrooms.

Sorry about the quality. The variety that has no faded nipple was not ingested but it is a similar fungi growing near the ingested ones so I thought I should show it. Colour differences are hard to see. The flat fungi has a slightly darker cap, and light brown gills (Pretty much the same colour as is in the picture of the gills, it is the right hand side one) It also has a light brown stem that goes slightly darker when bruised (brown). It had a small annulus (ring) on the upper part of the stipe.
The other fungi (with the light nipple and is right hand side on the gill shot) Had lighter gills, a practically white stem and a slightly lighter cap with slightly irregular shape.
Both grew in shaded, damp tanbark. Also the nippled fungi had what looked like webbing from the stem to the outside of the cap upon picking. I assume just from the veil coming back. No visible annulus.

Sorry for the lack of pictures and their poor quality, I provided as much info as I could possibly think of. I would like to point out again that the fungi shown are quite immature in growth both being just over 1cm in cap size and roughly 2-2.5cm in length.
And just to reiterate, the flat capped mushroom with no discoloration, (RHS of gill shot) was not ingested and the other was. I first assumed it to be P. Cubensis but later suspected P. Subaeruginosa.
I live in southern Victora (melbourne) in Australia.

Hope anything I gave was helpful guys.
Thanks for all your help too. I'm pretty sure I'm fine but I'd like to get them IDd for peace of mind... plus, if they're good I'll try again and be a little smarter this time haha.
Peace.


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Offlinejackus
psyconaught
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Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 260
Loc: melbourne
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: Smegman]
    #14502796 - 05/24/11 03:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

yo dude i live around frankston and iv seen those shrooms around p.subs have lighter colored gills and stem and cubes are white when older with a yellowish patch on the nipple when younger they are a golden color but the ones in the pics im pretty sure there fine to eat but dont have any psilocin/psilocybin (dont bother picking em

hope i helped a bit but better to check on here before taking unknown shrooms if only to put your mind at ease


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good vibes and happy tripping


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InvisibleNevermind
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Registered: 05/11/10
Posts: 2,189
Loc: Australia Flag
Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: Smegman]
    #14502882 - 05/24/11 04:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Neither of those look like subs, and as far as I'm aware cubes don't grow in the same habitat as subs.

You said it had a white stem, but they both look like brown stems to me.
You would probably have more luck posting in the Hunting and Identification Forum.


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Offlinejackus
psyconaught
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Registered: 04/14/11
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Loc: melbourne
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: Nevermind]
    #14502885 - 05/24/11 04:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

my display pic is of a baby sub and yeah cubes grow on dung usually subs are wood lovers


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good vibes and happy tripping


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OfflineLanLord
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Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: jackus]
    #14503219 - 05/24/11 07:32 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hard to tell anything from those pics.

OP, while you were fortunate this time, don't trust your instinct when it comes to life/death situations.  Might not work out so well next time.


--------------------
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment.


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OfflineSmegman
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Registered: 05/23/11
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Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Possible Amatoxin ingestion... [Re: LanLord]
    #14506109 - 05/24/11 06:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

haha yeah thanks for all your help guys.
good to know that there is a place people can come for some honest information.


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