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InvisibleLallafa
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The Yanomamo People
    #1449768 - 04/11/03 02:49 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

There is a large tribe of Tropical Forest Indians on the border between Venezuela and Brazil. They number approximately 12,000 people and are distributed in some 125 widely scattered villages. They are gardeners and they have lived until very recent time in isolation from our kind of culture. The authorities in Venezuela and Brazil knew very little about their existence until anthropologists began going there. The remarkable thing about the tribe, known as the Yanomamo, is the fact that they have managed, due to their isolation in a remote corner of Amazonia, to retain their native pattern of warfare and political integrity without interference from the outside world. They have remained sovereign and in complete control of their own destiny up until a few years ago. The remotest, uncontacted villages are still living under those conditions.

The Yanomamo are thinly scattered over a vast and verdant Tropical Forest, living in small villages that are separated by many miles of unoccupied land. They have no writing, but they have a rich and complex language... Much of their daily life revolves around gardening, hunting, collecting wild foods, collecting firewood, fetching water, visiting with each other, gossiping, and making the few material possessions they own: baskets, hammocks, bows, arrows, and colorful pigments with which they paint their bodies. [See photo.] Life is relatively easy in the sense they can 'earn a living' with about three hours' work per day... The villages can be as small as 40 to 50 people or as large as 300 people, but in all cases there are many more children and babies than there are adults. This is true of most primitive populations and of our own demographic past. Life expectancy is short.

..imagine what it would be like if they had solar panels




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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson


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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: Lallafa]
    #1449783 - 04/11/03 02:54 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Describing the two hallucinogenic snuffs that the Yanomamo Indians prepare, Plotkin referred to the chemical sophistication of Amazonian Indians. He wrote that these people used two hallucinogens that they gathered from two different trees. One was a nutmeg relative and the other a legume. Biochemically, he noted, they were tryptamine alkaloids. It was explained to Plotkin that one was to help you to see things like the kekura, and the other plant was to help you to hear things. He pondered how incredible it was that so-called "primitive" people could isolate two specific plants from the worlds greatest forest where there existed tens of thousands of different trees, and be able to access the realm of their spirits as a result.


In their book Mound Builders: Edgar Cayces Forgotten Record of Ancient America, Doctors Greg and Lora Little, and John Van Auken quote author Jeremy Narby on the subject of Amazonian shamen and the hallucinogenic ayahuasca (See interview with Dr. Rick Strassman in this issue!). The brew is a necessary combination of two plants, which must be boiled together for hours.. Narby wrote in his book Cosmic Serpent. The first contains a hallucinogenic substance, dimethyltryptamine, (nndmt) which also seems to be secreted by the human brain ; but this hallucinogen has no effect when swallowed, because a stomach enzyme called monoamine oxidase blocks it. The second plant, however, contains several substances that inactivate this precise stomach enzyme, allowing the hallucinogen to reach the brain. So here are people without electron microscopes who choose, among some 80,000 Amazonian plant species, the leaves of a bush containing a hallucinogenic brain hormone, which they combine with a vine containing substances that inactivate an enzyme of the digestive tract, which would otherwise block the hallucinogenic effect. And they do this to modify their consciousness. In addition, when asked how the shamen knew to select these particular plants they replied, The plants tell us.



--------------------
my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson


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Offlinearabmobster
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: Lallafa]
    #1449882 - 04/11/03 03:29 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

i wish i lived with them


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: arabmobster]
    #1449902 - 04/11/03 03:35 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Getting told how to make hallucinogens by plants is so five years ago.


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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: Dogomush]
    #1449940 - 04/11/03 03:46 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

z


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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson


Edited by Lallafa (02/24/10 11:02 AM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: Lallafa]
    #1449942 - 04/11/03 03:46 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Tribespeople keep the world in balance.

Non-technology


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InvisibleJared
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: Shroomism]
    #1450163 - 04/11/03 04:48 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

So.. you're saying the world is in balance..?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: Jared]
    #1450897 - 04/11/03 10:14 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Depends what you are comparing it to

In a word...yes

Consider for a moment if there were no third world countries, no tribes with no technology.. everyone in the world would be scouring for resources. The rainforest people would cut down their rainforest, and we would lose trees at a rate probably ten times what it is now. They keep the world in balance in many ways physically, but more importantly.. on the spiritual/energetic level, they provide a vital balance. They are in touch with nature, and the Earth, which the technologically advanced societies take mostly for granted, and often desecrate.

Both aspects of our world are important steps in human evolution. The technological societies and the more primal, non technology tribes and whatnot such as the Aborigines in Australia, who spend most of their time in 'dreamtime', which to them is as real and valid as waking reality.

When these two aspects merge, the technological societies adopt the one-with-the-earth mentality, and the tribes embrace technology that enhances their lives and resonates in harmony with mother earth, there will be a transmutation of sorts. As it happens now, we keep each other in balance, on many, many different levels.


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Edited by Shroomism (04/11/03 10:25 PM)


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OfflineMurex
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: Shroomism]
    #1451234 - 04/12/03 12:22 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I wish I could live tribal, but still have a computer and a few other things. The best of both worlds.......that would be cool.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Anonymous

Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: Lallafa]
    #1452215 - 04/12/03 01:14 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Oh Lallafa, this thread deserves a 5 rating!

Yes, the plants told them.  It is very interesting to my scientific, philosophical mind that out of tens of thousands of species of plants the shaman knew which ones went together to produce the visions.

I'd love to hear a rational answer from the "skeptic" community here on that little puzzle.  :smirk:

Cheers,


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: ]
    #1452311 - 04/12/03 01:48 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Yes that's it! the plants that talk to you are the ones that make you hallucinate. that's how they know.  it makes perfect sense...  :smirk:

 


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1452475 - 04/12/03 02:46 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

not just the ones that make you hallucinate.

Curare's more unlikely to be discovered than ayahuasca correct? It requires boiling certain stuff for 72 hours or something like that. Why a shaman would think "Gee I'll just tend to this fire and keep this stuff boiling for ... 50 hours. Oh, didn't work, I guess I'll just do it longer" stumps me. fucked up shit dude


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OfflineRuNE
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: Dogomush]
    #1452624 - 04/12/03 03:45 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)



This is kind of dumb.
You cant say that you KNOW it couldnt have happened by chance somehow.

Like, for example, maybe they liked the burnt smell of one of the plants, so they kept it over fire for a day or 2. They one of them tasted it, and bam. Ok, stupid example, but ANYTHING couldve happened. Remember, short life expectancy, and lots of kids, combined with a lot of spare time = *experimentation*. These ppl lived for who knows how long like this, i'm sure they tried a billion different combinations for spices in foods, boiling things down for medical uses, etc etc.

Its a bit too easy to say you beleive when they say "the plants told us".
It reminds me a lot of how ppl on this board tend to talk about shrooms. "the divine shroom told me". Oh really. Yet noone knows for SURE if its the 'truth', or just chemical activity in the brain.

Cmon ppl, common sense?


--------------------
~Happy sailing~


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OfflineDroz
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: Lallafa]
    #1452671 - 04/12/03 03:57 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

What if we were The Shroomery People... living in the heart of the rainforests with eco-technologies, like solar and wind power. We spent a few hours a day tending our crops that grew under the sunlight and artificial lighting. We have fresh water from the waterfalls. We also study the arts, research exotic plants for cures of diseases, and most of us spent our time studying the psychedelic mind. What a joyous place it would be.  :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

This thread has brought a stream of good thoughts. Thx Lallafa.

Peace,
Droz


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: Droz]
    #1453108 - 04/12/03 06:54 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Yet noone knows for SURE if its the 'truth', or just chemical activity in the brain.

that statement means nothing.. maybe I lack common sense though. "common sense." hahahha

Funny stuff. I'm on EI (employment insurance) which is pretty much welfare except I can rationalize being on it really easily, and so I have tons of free time, and although I like the smells of certain things I haven't discovered any effective poisons/hallucinogens at all.


Edited by Dogomush (04/13/03 06:34 PM)


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: RuNE]
    #1453503 - 04/12/03 09:45 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:



This is kind of dumb.
You cant say that you KNOW it couldnt have happened by chance somehow.

Like, for example, maybe they liked the burnt smell of one of the plants, so they kept it over fire for a day or 2. They one of them tasted it, and bam. Ok, stupid example, but ANYTHING couldve happened. Remember, short life expectancy, and lots of kids, combined with a lot of spare time = *experimentation*. These ppl lived for who knows how long like this, i'm sure they tried a billion different combinations for spices in foods, boiling things down for medical uses, etc etc.

Its a bit too easy to say you beleive when they say "the plants told us".
It reminds me a lot of how ppl on this board tend to talk about shrooms. "the divine shroom told me". Oh really. Yet noone knows for SURE if its the 'truth', or just chemical activity in the brain.

Cmon ppl, common sense?




why are you here?? not just S&P i mean the messages boards in general? your "common" sense is not more or less likely to be the truth than the plants talking to people. you said it yourself no one knows for SURE its the truth but no one knows for SURE its the chemical activity in your brain.

you had to know that was going to be a quote that got people mad. why did you post it? did you get off when by causing arguments? is this what you do for fun?

i myself am a little skeptical of "talking" plants. but i dont say anthing i keep an open mind and listen to others. i dont look for a fight. maybe you should evaluate yourself before judging others. peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


Edited by blaze2 (04/12/03 09:47 PM)


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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: Lallafa]
    #1454194 - 04/13/03 04:59 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

cool.


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OfflineRuNE
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: shaggy101]
    #1458042 - 04/14/03 09:02 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)



I guess i should clear up my post a bit.

Ok, first off, I dont mean to start no war.
Peace dudes. =P

I realize the 'dumb' comment was ignorant. Sorry. I meant it more as an emotional response thing rather than an acusational thing.

I'm gonna clear up my 'truth' and 'common sense' thing a bit.
When i said truth, i didnt mean MY truth (i.e. my opinion) but rather *THE* truth. (yes, been there, done that, dont think i havent seen it.)
It was convincing, but i'm always a skeptic. So like i said, we still dont know if the 'truth' is the truth or not. \=]

I said common sense because its a bit easier to beleive that they discovered the psychedelic properties of the plants by accident, rather than the plants calling out to these people saying "eat me".

blaze: I think you took my post way out of proportion. I never put anyone down, i just gave my 2 cents. Calm down dude.



--------------------
~Happy sailing~


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: RuNE]
    #1458236 - 04/14/03 09:52 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

well i didnt mean to come off as strong as i did either.i was a little blazed that night. all my point was you are skeptical some people aren't and you shouldn't try to shoot down their points of view and others shouldn't shoot down your points. like i said i find it hard to believe that plants can talk either but its always a possibility. the yanamomo might know something that our western educated mind couldn't possibly understand. then again they've been around these plants for a long time and they might have just stumbled upon it. again im sorry that i came off that hard im kinda surprised that the mods didnt get on my case. i myself try not to make expectations either way and just absorb information. wheather its science fiction or science fact. peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: The Yanomamo People [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1458470 - 04/14/03 10:56 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Yes that's it! the plants that talk to you are the ones that make you hallucinate. that's how they know.  it makes perfect sense...  :smirk:

   




When you get around to providing a rational answer pm me.

Accident or coincidence is just a euphemism for, "I don't know."

Cheers,


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