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OfflineKarate_donkey
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Is this the way to get potent mushrooms?
    #14495521 - 05/22/11 06:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

so i understand that potency is all genetic and with ms its just a crap shoot. So what i need do is keep growing ms grows until i get some awesome shrooms and clone one. But with mushrooms potency differing 10 fold from shroom to shroom, Cloning  the potent one is still a crap shoot after that. Should i clone a few different shrooms from the hypothetical awesome batch of shrooms I grew just to find the potent one? After I grow a batch from one of the clones are they all equally potent? Do I need to grow an entire batch of every ms grow or should I grow a few cakes keep the shrooms from each seperate dose the individually? Would it be faster to do it on agar? I would still need to grow them all out and does em to find out how good they were right?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: Karate_donkey] * 2
    #14495532 - 05/22/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You isolate strains on agar and then test each one.  The few months you spend isolating and testing are nothing compared to the 20+ years you can grow the isolate you make with no variation.
RR


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InvisibleSpector
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14495616 - 05/22/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

hey lucky fellow! RR replied to you first!

I kinda want to add my two cents as I did my own study on "Selective breeding" with dogs, and mushrooms, Totally diffrent topics but pretty much the same concept.
RR Deff pointed you in the right way, you need to start working with agar, but i have read that you can work with rye and WBS, Although agar would be MUCH easier to handle instead of having to reach into jars for that "ropey" myc, and transfer it to other jars. you would have to do that becuz you cant just Pound the jar and brake it up, that "ropey" variety of cube will be doin its own lil thing while the hole other side of the jar is just a ton of diffrent mycs doin there thing. look up "ropey mycs" lol.
ok so,
so when you get a syringe from your Fav shroomy vendor you first noc
your stuff up and get a batch goin, and like you said pick the patch that you favor most, print it or clone it, and start nocing more jars.
you pick the trains you love and discard the one you dont, and narrow down your options. so i dont keep makin this huge just look up a General article on Selective Breeding to understand the concept
I hope this helped!!! Good luck.

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Offline3n1gm4
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: Spector]
    #14497346 - 05/23/11 01:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So how many times will I have to agar to agar transfer 2-3 sectors of each petri to get a single strain?

Does it depend on how much myc you transfer? Like the less(one strand if possible) the better?


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InvisibleSpector
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: 3n1gm4]
    #14497378 - 05/23/11 01:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The less you Transfer,and narrow down your options the more you'll see variety in jars you noc up.
as for how many times you have to do agar transfer, thats up to you to get a single narrowed Variety. you cant really decide what trates you like more on just agar, you have to grow them.
There so much more to this, you should really look into it.
its all you have to do when ppl ask about, bigger fruits, or potent yeilds.

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Offline3n1gm4
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: Spector]
    #14497411 - 05/23/11 02:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I know you have to grow and have been reading teks and posts on agar for a week straight, not to mention what I have read in the past. I just want to know how you can tell when it is a single strain, does it have no rhizo growth when it is a single strain?

I was planning on cloning a MS fruit that looked nice, isolating 2-4 sectors depending on the growth, choosing the two of those that are the best looking and isolating those in 2-4 sectors and so on until I have the kind of rhizo growth that looks like something from superman's crystal palace, transfer that to a grain jar for making a GLC and growing that spawn hoping to get a 30-50-g fruit to take a plug from and then eat the clone donor to see if it is worth making a master culture out of. Is this righ, or should I just try for big & fast and then clone it and test for potency?

Fast is good but not #1, I want to isolate for potency, size is not an issue either, I have more than enough for me and a few friends and small mushrooms are more potent than fully mature ones by weight.


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Edited by 3n1gm4 (05/23/11 02:15 AM)

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InvisibleSpector
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: 3n1gm4]
    #14497446 - 05/23/11 02:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

well how many petri dishes and agar do you have??
i would try both your methods, there both a good way to do it. the first for long term, and the second to kinda test and see what happends. Like i said im still perfecting but it sounds like you have it all planned out. But yea, your ultimate goal is to have a strainy, ropey, mycelium.

I would deff make a new post hoping to catch a Mods attention. i know RR has done this. i remember reading a post about him fantisizing in developing a shiitake that can grow off pine. thats were selective breeding comes in play.

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Offline3n1gm4
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: Spector]
    #14497460 - 05/23/11 02:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So do the splits between the rhizo growth mean it is a different strain and I need it to all look ropey but be all attached in a perfect circle? I have no dishes or agar yet that is why I am asking I need to know weather to get 20 or 40 dishes.

Most mushrooms produce spores. When a mushroom spore germinates, the mycelium that emerges from the spore generally has one nucleus per cell, and we refer to this as hyphae, or monkaryotic mycelium. When hyphae that emerged from two individual spores of the same species cross paths, if they’re compatible, they join together to exchange DNA between them. The resulting mycelium generally has two or more nuclei per cell, and is referred to as dikaryotic mycelium. This mycelium, formed from two separate hyphae, is the very definition of a strain.
Since it only takes two spores to make a strain, you can easily see how many strains can potentially differentiate when you use an inoculating loop to swipe thousands of spores from a sporeprint onto a Petri dish of agar media. The process of strain isolation involves transferring these individual growths, or sectors away from each other, so that each can be expanded and fruited to determine the best performing strains. Strains with the desired characteristics will then become part of your permanent collection, stored long-term in test tubes as master culture slants.

What I am getting from that is you want the myc to be rhizo looking but all twisted together meaning it is compatible and of same strain? Anyone?


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Edited by 3n1gm4 (05/23/11 03:20 AM)

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InvisibleSpector
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: 3n1gm4]
    #14497486 - 05/23/11 03:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This belongs in advanced mycology lol.
I would Imagine you would only need 20 dishes. I only have like..i think 7. But hey it sounds like you are farther along With the mycelium aspect of "Selective breeding" so far. Ive only been skimming thru articles and waiting to do big scale projects. now that i think of it i believe there is another term used in mycology instead of "selective breeding" any wayss...
Im ganna use sum of your info to look up more articles.
so yea, you should start a new thread so i can get sum more info :awesome:
great research by the way :thumbup:

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Offline3n1gm4
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: Spector]
    #14497558 - 05/23/11 03:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Spector said:
This belongs in advanced mycology lol.
I would Imagine you would only need 20 dishes. I only have like..i think 7. But hey it sounds like you are farther along With the mycelium aspect of "Selective breeding" so far. Ive only been skimming thru articles and waiting to do big scale projects. now that i think of it i believe there is another term used in mycology instead of "selective breeding" any wayss...
Im ganna use sum of your info to look up more articles.
so yea, you should start a new thread so i can get sum more info :awesome:
great research by the way :thumbup:




All that info came from RR's website, I take no credit. I think I might be starting to understand a strain though. If two compatible strains of growth touch they exchange DNA and make the strain stronger?
When hyphae that emerged from two individual spores of the same species cross paths, if they’re compatible, they join together to exchange DNA between them. The resulting mycelium generally has two or more nuclei per cell, and is referred to as dikaryotic mycelium. This mycelium, formed from two separate hyphae, is the very definition of a strain.


So this means that your transfer to agar should look like rhizo twisted together over the whole culture to be an isolate, meaning all the strains that were not compatible and not transferred were compatible with some other strains and if you do it right then you will get an isolate that looks like twisted rhizo growth with no singled out/split away from culture growth. An isolate will look like it is one single entwined circle of rhizo growth with no splits or singled out rhizo strands?


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OfflineKarate_donkey
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: 3n1gm4]
    #14497944 - 05/23/11 07:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So with an isolate, are all the mushrooms of equal potency so I could just grow a small amount of each to test?
So when I put a sample on agar and take the different sectors and get different isolates, are the odds pretty good that one of those isolates will be pretty potent? Or is it more likely that all the isolates are just average. I guess what I am asking is how rare and lucky do you have to be to find a very potent isolate?


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InvisibleSpector
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: Karate_donkey]
    #14498172 - 05/23/11 09:18 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well as 3n1gm nicely put it, when spores germinate Each spore has its own nucleus cell that if compatible with the other spores species while germinating and growing, will cross paths and join with those other cells, adding more DNA to the Mycelium that you see over all as big white beauty.

So Basically, if your working with a spore syringe, for a Trust shroomy vender, and noc up a jar of your fav grains or just a dish, your going to have idk, what? 100's of 1000's of spores intangoling.

from healthy examples that iv seen and read, this is pretty much what your shooting for.
http://www.thehawkseye.com/safrica/saf_agar.jpg

But iv also seen finer, "ropey" strans in gourmet mushrooms

Edited by Spector (05/23/11 09:19 AM)

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InvisibleSpector
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: Spector]
    #14498379 - 05/23/11 10:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I acutually checked one of my dishes a few mins ago that i just put sum spores on to keep before i run out of em(just a tad bit not alot AT all), swirled it around and left to colonize.
so karate, Ijust checked em and i found 30+ lil bearly noticeable white strans, you can acually see them running out of the spore.
these are all going to cross each other, if you were to very carefully cut just one of those spots out it would be isolated.
kinda get it?

but member you have to keep picking the traits you like to keep getting potent resulte. i doubt you'll get a patch that are all the same in potency.

Edited by Spector (05/23/11 10:36 AM)

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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: Spector]
    #14498389 - 05/23/11 10:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

spores are microscopic. you cant see them germinating :S

also @ op. eat more cubensis, or grow something stronger than cubensis.

thats how you trip harder.


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InvisibleSpector
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: k00laid]
    #14498406 - 05/23/11 10:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
spores are microscopic. you cant see them germinating :S

also @ op. eat more cubensis, or grow something stronger than cubensis.

thats how you trip harder.




ok, guess im tripping ballz then.
Or i must have 30 spots on my glasses that line up with my dish.
how does your post benefit this thread again?

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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: Spector]
    #14498637 - 05/23/11 11:47 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i'll answer that when you answer how this thread contributes to these forums.

cuz i mean. this is the first thread about this.

isnt it??? :tard:


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InvisibleSpector
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: k00laid]
    #14498671 - 05/23/11 11:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

what??? lmao
your right, this thread probably belongs in Advance mycology.
but saying this is the first thread or article about isolating strains or verietys of mushrooms mycelium... thats just too funny buddy.
Your turn now....
nvm this is not the time or place, but you.. lol you are a funny one.
so I doubt this is the first EVER thread. lol i got a good laugh out of that post there.

Edited by Spector (05/23/11 12:04 PM)

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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: Spector]
    #14498762 - 05/23/11 12:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

this doesn't belong in advanced mycology, yo.

to isolate for potency you isolate at random and test each isolate.

as said earlier in this thread.

what is your question again?


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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: k00laid]
    #14498801 - 05/23/11 12:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

it sounds like your now just trying to justify your self now.. "yo".
there was only 2 or 3 questions from the thread poster. the rest was a discussion "yo"
listen im not here to argue with you. if you think your right and want to keep replying have fun. but i would do sum research about the subject before i keep stating non-related statements trying to discredit ppl. have fun.

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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Is this the way to get potent mushrooms? [Re: Spector]
    #14498815 - 05/23/11 12:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

this thread comes up once a month. sometimes in advanced sometimes in mush cult.

it always gets moved to mush cult.
and always ends the same.
isolate at random.
test each. but the thing is. how does one test for potency?

once you have a reliable and replicable method. then this thread should be posted.


yo.


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