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 OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
 
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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 Re: The most important struggle in history  [Re: Cannashroom]
#14449990 - 05/14/11 08:01 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
However, I don't believe anyone has the right to destroy the environment for their own material gain.
Huh? Once again you do not make sense. Those things you discussed are ALL materials. Your computer is a material. Food is a material. Habitat is a material. Clothes are material. Transportataion etc. etc.
I cannot follow your fuzzy and arbitrary guidelines - nor do I think you do either. Same for Moonshoe.
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 Cannashroom
Smoke two Joints
Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 2,141
Loc: Everywhere
Last seen: 7 years, 23 days
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That was a poor way to phrase it I guess, but I think you got my point but chose to argue semantics instead.
I'm not trying to say people should have no material possessions but the focus of our society should be changed from personal gain in terms of money, land, items, etc to helping each other. I don't believe the resources of this planet belong to anyone, they should be used to help everyone not make profits for a select few, while destroying the environment (and chance to be comfortable) of many others.
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"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.
This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.
Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.
Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."
Albert Einstein
Edited by Cannashroom (05/14/11 08:30 AM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The most important struggle in history [Re: Cannashroom]
#14451312 - 05/14/11 01:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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How does your belief that people should act a certain way effect reality?
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: The most important struggle in history [Re: DieCommie]
#14451432 - 05/14/11 01:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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A changed ecosystem is not a destroyed ecosystem.
This is a point I try to make often but tree-huggers seem to miss.
One consequence of a warmer Earth and more CO2 is more vegetation growing in the Earth's forests and oceans. Since plants are more or less at the bottom of the food chain, more plants means more and better-fed animals who have less of a struggle to stay alive.
So, while global warming might be bad for ONE species on Earth that likes to build cities near the ocean, many (most?) other species actually benefits from global warming and the abundance of vegetation it brings about.
It amazingly arrogant to presume that the best ecology for humans is the best ecology for everything else that lives on Earth.
There have been mass extinctions through out earth's history - and yet the ecosystem still exists.
And five REALLY BIG ones that wiped out as many as 70% of all species. Yet here were are again. The Earth is not a shrinking violet. It's 5 billion years old to our 100 thousand, and if history is any guide, it will probably still be here long after we're gone.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The most important struggle in history [Re: Diploid]
#14451609 - 05/14/11 02:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I vote for the Earth as a new moderator.
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Articulate
Stranger
Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 2
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Would you say that we can at least know that we are using the resources of the planet at a rate faster then it can regenerate?
OK. Name one species that does NOT have cycles of expansion and contraction.
Please name one non-human species that flies f-16s around and drops bombs on various parts of the earth. or one non-human species that has gone through a civil war. or even just one non-human species that drives a car and burns gas all through the day and or night. Please..? how are you finding it legitimate to compare the effects on nature of beings with little to no intellectual capabilities to the effects humans have? that's not even a valid argument because they're not comparable. "Crocodiles have breached the casino! call in the air force!" lol. no. incomparable. were you taught as a kid to take care of and cherish the things that are yours or destroy them? and nature damaging itself as an argument? that's like arguing that i need to fix my act for falling of my own accord and breaking a bone. now let's compare if one were to beat the living shit out of someone else and break one of their bones. you can see what i'm getting at. not comparable, once again. humans ABUSE technology in this day and age and it has become extremely detrimental in more than a few ways. too many people have no respect for anything and only think inwardly about there wants. well i'll tell you what, eventually it'll come down to people's needs over wants. and many won't know how to obtain survival essentials after putting their cars, computers, toasters and bullshit first for so long. and one more question from one intelligent person to another- is it smarter for us as humans to advance in eco-efficient ways or to advance in a destructive path like the world will end tomorrow because of something unpredictable? i'm a gambling man and seeing as the earth has seen quite a few days thus far i'm pretty sure it's an extremely bad bet to wager it will end tomorrow. if you can actually sufficently answer these questions without disregarding them and asking your own ridiculously unreal objections instead, orgone, you would be a legend.
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Heffy
BrauMeister
Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: The most important struggle in history [Re: Articulate]
#14488796 - 05/21/11 08:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sometimes OG tries so hard to (pretend to) not understand.
It's pretty sad.
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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,458
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 22 hours, 7 minutes
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Re: The most important struggle in history [Re: Heffy]
#14489997 - 05/21/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sometimes you try so hard to (pretend to) understand.
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auxiliary
Mr.
Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 2,278
Loc: Thatoneville
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: The most important struggle in history [Re: xFrockx]
#14490079 - 05/21/11 03:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sometimes you try so hard to (pretend to) understand.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: The most important struggle in history [Re: Cannashroom]
#14490463 - 05/21/11 04:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cannashroom said:
That was a poor way to phrase it I guess, but I think you got my point but chose to argue semantics instead.
Your supiscions are not relevant.
I didn't undersatnd what you were trying to say anyways, and if you cannot express yourself and say what you do not mean, then the problem is not the reader.
Quote:
I'm not trying to say people should have no material possessions but the focus of our society should be changed from personal gain in terms of money, land, items, etc to helping each other.
So what? Your bare conclusions with no basis seems to have nothing to do with the thesis Orgone questioned. This seems like more equivocation- the only similar factor is the vague emotional congruence with some of your prior claims.
Quote:
I don't believe the resources of this planet belong to anyone, they should be used to help everyone not make profits for a select few, while destroying the environment (and chance to be comfortable) of many others.
What does your belief have to do with anything? Nobody has any difficulty understanding what you believe, the issue is identifying and philosophical basis for the numerous claims you've made.
Now you advance abandoning property and capitalism but fail to provide any inkling of how that would be done or on what grounds you have to do so, even if it could be connected to anything relevant in the discussion.
How exactly is your prior position where you claim you are not trying to say people should have no material possesions consistant with this claim where you say you believe resources should not belong to a few but should belong to anyone (presumably everyone)? Unless you are defining resource or the concept of ownership arbitrarily as is convieniant your position seems clearly inconsistant. The whole concept of ownership is the ability to exclude others from the resource and direct its disposition. If the resource in question is yours, but everyone can have it, then it is not yours.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The most important struggle in history [Re: johnm214]
#14490533 - 05/21/11 05:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Stop trying to make sense! 
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1983
Stranger
Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 130
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Re: The most important struggle in history [Re: Moonshoe]
#14490543 - 05/21/11 05:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I really don't see why humans should care if they are able to live on the earth because the earth will go on without us.
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millzy
Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
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Re: The most important struggle in history [Re: 1983]
#14494644 - 05/22/11 03:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
1983 said:
I really don't see why humans should care if they are able to live on the earth because the earth will go on without us.
i care about living in harmony with our ecosystem and ensuring the survival of our species.
i'm sure there's b/s on both sides of the environmental issue, to a point, but we should be concerned with what we're doing to, for example, the amazon. the amazon basin is basically the world's medicine cabinet. definitely better places for soy bean farms than there.
i personally think the greatest struggle for humanity will be getting into a post scarcity, post capitalist, post war society without a) making our planet uninhabitable or b) killing ourselves off in the process. i'm not saying that there will be a day where humanity will not have any problems, but scarcity, capitalism and war will some day exist only in history books.
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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: The most important struggle in history [Re: millzy]
#14495615 - 05/22/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
millzy said:
Quote:
1983 said:
I really don't see why humans should care if they are able to live on the earth because the earth will go on without us.
i care about living in harmony with our ecosystem and ensuring the survival of our species.
i'm sure there's b/s on both sides of the environmental issue, to a point, but we should be concerned with what we're doing to, for example, the amazon. the amazon basin is basically the world's medicine cabinet. definitely better places for soy bean farms than there.
i personally think the greatest struggle for humanity will be getting into a post scarcity, post capitalist, post war society without a) making our planet uninhabitable or b) killing ourselves off in the process. i'm not saying that there will be a day where humanity will not have any problems, but scarcity, capitalism and war will some day exist only in history books.
There is no difficulty in understanding what people believe, but rather difficulty in understanding any philosophical basis for the arguments that this is required or advisable behavior. Some have gone so far to suggest we dismantle the entire economy and eliminate freedom of commerce. These authoritarian measures are not buttressed by someone's belief, but require some persuasive argument.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The most important struggle in history [Re: 1983]
#14496233 - 05/22/11 09:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
1983 said:
I really don't see why humans should care if they are able to live on the earth because the earth will go on without us.
Like Celine Dion's heart?
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