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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: bholzer]
    #14495873 - 05/22/11 07:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bholzer said:
Quote:

joemolloy said:
His decision to use Aya is part of what fucked him.



Definitely true, but when he says that drugs that tell you not to do them are the ones you can trust, he's not lying.

I think we've actually talked about that before, how psychedelics can just prevent themselves from being abused (to an extent)




I agree with that, but part of me wishes that psychedelics would have prevented the abuse a little sooner before all of those fingerprints and claw marks set in.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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Offlinebholzer
quasi-scientist


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 2,409
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: mattritt]
    #14495882 - 05/22/11 07:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mattritt said:
No way man, thats a shitload!!  Mimosa doseage is 5-7 grams from what I've read.  Go with psychotria though if youre gunna brew.  Jurema (mimosa brew) is full of tannins and only used traditionally by a VERY small sect.  Chacaruna (psychotria) is what most ayahuasca is traditionally made with though some use Chaliponga which contains 5-MeO-DMT, and some use a combo of both.

Over time you'll integrate the experience and come to terms with it, and really thats the most important part.  What you bring back from the experience and apply to your life.

Wish you the best of luck!



Yea, it was an irresponsible dose for sure. I used egg white clarifications and gelatin to remove most tannins, so the nausea was actually pretty nonexistent.

And I usually don't agree much with integration. I feel like pulling experiences from a trip back to the real world cause some confusion that really mess up some users. I do feel like I took something out of that experience though, because it really was VERY intense. Very extreme and vivid CEVS


--------------------


Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.


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Offlinebholzer
quasi-scientist


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 2,409
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: joemolloy]
    #14495889 - 05/22/11 08:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Quote:

bholzer said:
Quote:

joemolloy said:
His decision to use Aya is part of what fucked him.



Definitely true, but when he says that drugs that tell you not to do them are the ones you can trust, he's not lying.

I think we've actually talked about that before, how psychedelics can just prevent themselves from being abused (to an extent)




I agree with that, but part of me wishes that psychedelics would have prevented the abuse a little sooner before all of those fingerprints and claw marks set in.



Exactly, it seems like only after the damage is done that most users realize they need to take it easy.


--------------------


Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.


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Offlinemattritt
Mind Chemist
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Posts: 2,292
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Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: bholzer]
    #14496073 - 05/22/11 08:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yea, that does seem to be how it goes, but hey atleast you got out with your head on your shoulders.  It seems a human tendency to push things further and further until we hurt ourselves, and only then do we back off.  Then we try to lay blame it on the substance and say it did it to us.  If anything just be glad you weren't doing a drug that won't let go.  One where even when you see that its doing damage you can't stop.  I think psychedlics are a lot safer in that regard.  You might have some scars, but atleast they didn't take your life.  And really who wants to die without a few scars?

"It's nothing anymore to have a beautiful stock body. You see those cars that are completely stock cherry, right out of a dealer's showroom in 1955, I always think, what a waste."


--------------------
**Metaphysical Crystal, Stones, Gems, and Minerals**
Every individual reacts differently to every chemical.
Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.
:bongload:  :gethigh:  "You need more THC to your brain, faster." - Drr  :gethigh:  :bongload:


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OfflineMoxyOx
Grazin'

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 1,439
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: bholzer]
    #14496094 - 05/22/11 08:47 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I personally don't really see a point in higher doses of psychedelics. They are like any other drug in the sense that they can be used as tools or just for recreational purposes.

Stick with low doses if you can and try to keep yourself occupied(arts, sports, nature, music) while tripping. Simply thinking about existence and life in general is rather lame and too ego enforcing, it's mental masturbation at its finest. I've been where you're at and it kind of sucks. Just realize that there is absolutely nothing to be afraid of except your own fear and start from there.

That is my 2 cents, I hope you feel better man!


--------------------
No one behind, no one ahead.
The path the ancients cleared has closed.
And the other path, everyone's path,
easy and wide, goes nowhere.
I am alone and find my way.


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Offlinebholzer
quasi-scientist


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Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 2,409
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: mattritt]
    #14496110 - 05/22/11 08:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mattritt said:
Yea, that does seem to be how it goes, but hey atleast you got out with your head on your shoulders.  It seems a human tendency to push things further and further until we hurt ourselves, and only then do we back off.  Then we try to lay blame it on the substance and say it did it to us.  If anything just be glad you weren't doing a drug that won't let go.  One where even when you see that its doing damage you can't stop.  I think psychedlics are a lot safer in that regard.  You might have some scars, but atleast they didn't take your life.  And really who wants to die without a few scars?

"It's nothing anymore to have a beautiful stock body. You see those cars that are completely stock cherry, right out of a dealer's showroom in 1955, I always think, what a waste."



Completely agreed. It's something that you can see and say, "hey, this has gotta stop." And then you can actually stop it.

And it's all about experience man. Life is about experiences. And I'll be damned if psychedelics aren't the epitome of experience.


--------------------


Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.


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OfflineYippie
Happystance
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Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 260
Last seen: 8 years, 7 days
Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: bholzer]
    #14496658 - 05/22/11 10:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Enjoy your life as things get incrementally better,
Quote:

bholzer said:
Joe, I have noticed that you've been going through the similar struggle, which is why I defend you so heartily in your threads where everyone seems to think anyone who is against full psychedelic lifestyle is a troll.

The derealization has been the most worrisome part. I don't care about losing interests in the drugs, although it is odd. I just hate seeing things as though they are a part of a movie. It's like things lose any sort of emotional value. I can read a sad story and realize that it's sad, but I just don't feel it. I don't feel like this all the time, but when I do, it feels like a personal hell.

I go back and forth a couple times a day, it's like bipolar almost. What scares me the most is my sister is bipolar, and my mothers side of the family is riddled with emotional disorders. I knew I was playing with fire from the beginning, but it never bit me in the ass until recently.

Like I said, meditation helps, along with hanging out with my friends. The problem is, I can't always hang out with my friends or meditate.

Hopefully it will wear off with some reduced drug use.




I suspect what your experiencing is reasonably common, but few have any desire to come (back) here and post about it. But rest assured these symptoms will gradually lessen over time, provided you stay sober (includes any aggravating substances). Take something like St. John’s Wort and taurine daily can really help limit the time you spend in hell. For some the combination contained in MRM Relax–All (w/ Phenibut) helps dramatically reduce symptoms, but it can’t be taken every day.

Experiencing life as one would a film and having little to no separation with your subconscious mind is grindingly difficult to deal with for months on end. But it did fade, and then gave way to even more months of amazing lucid dreams that put any exogenous drugs effects to shame. Now 18 months later, it might have all just been a dream in someone else’s mind.

While every situation is unique – I believe that stress or any kind and/or unchecked anxiety is the real problem here (the psychological stuff is really not serious, just deeply unpleasant). The number one thing to do is to relax in the knowledge that all of this is just a temporary and you’re already in the process of getting better…healing is a painful experience.


--------------------
"Just living molecule to molecule"


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Offlinebholzer
quasi-scientist


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 2,409
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: Yippie]
    #14496679 - 05/22/11 10:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Yippie said:


I suspect what your experiencing is reasonably common, but few have any desire to come (back) here and post about it. But rest assured these symptoms will gradually lessen over time, provided you stay sober (includes any aggravating substances). Take something like St. John’s Wort and taurine daily can really help limit the time you spend in hell. For some the combination contained in MRM Relax–All (w/ Phenibut) helps dramatically reduce symptoms, but it can’t be taken every day.

Experiencing life as one would a film and having little to no separation with your subconscious mind is grindingly difficult to deal with for months on end. But it did fade, and then gave way to even more months of amazing lucid dreams that put any exogenous drugs effects to shame. Now 18 months later, it might have all just been a dream in someone else’s mind.

While every situation is unique – I believe that stress or any kind and/or unchecked anxiety is the real problem here (the psychological stuff is really not serious, just deeply unpleasant). The number one thing to do is to relax in the knowledge that all of this is just a temporary and you’re already in the process of getting better…healing is a painful experience.




Great post, thanks so much for the advice :peace:


--------------------


Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.


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Offlinepiratg
Stranger
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Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 34
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: bholzer]
    #14496748 - 05/22/11 10:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bholzer said:
Quote:

qream said:
Just lay off the drugs for a while dude.
If you don't feel like tripping then just take a break.



Oh I am, I've been taking it easy for a while now. I just don't like the derealization that I've been feeling in the wake of my last trips. it's been getting better, but the thoughts are still just so weird! I think about everything differently, and I don't like it.




Can I ask a question bholzer?

Have you ever had experince before this that has completely changed a firm belief you had or your whole perception of something , I mean like an ego deah of sorts - or cockblock if you like  ?

Im not talking some vague abstract hald witted sense most folk have about doing things, Im not talking more about something very spiritually intense - like what folk get when they wait on rapture or build up to something they were dead sure of happening i.e. sometimes to the point they kill themselves if they dont.

pg


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Offlinebholzer
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Registered: 03/22/11
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Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: piratg]
    #14496772 - 05/22/11 11:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

piratg said:

Can I ask a question bholzer?

Have you ever had experince before this that has completely changed a firm belief you had or your whole perception of something , I mean like an ego deah of sorts - or cockblock if you like  ?

Im not talking some vague abstract hald witted sense most folk have about doing things, Im not talking more about something very spiritually intense - like what folk get when they wait on rapture or build up to something they were dead sure of happening i.e. sometimes to the point they kill themselves if they dont.

pg



Not that I can think of. I'm extremely open-minded, so It's hard to really shake my belief system. I've never had any ideals or perceptions just completely change. When I say I think of things differently, it's more like I see it from a different perspective. Almost as though I'm thinking from someone elses mind, or like I'm thinking more thoroughly. Really hard to explain.


--------------------


Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.


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Offlinepiratg
Stranger
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Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 34
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: Yippie]
    #14496858 - 05/22/11 11:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Yippie said:
Enjoy your life as things get incrementally better,
Quote:

bholzer said:
Joe, I have noticed that you've been going through the similar struggle, which is why I defend you so heartily in your threads where everyone seems to think anyone who is against full psychedelic lifestyle is a troll.

The derealization has been the most worrisome part. I don't care about losing interests in the drugs, although it is odd. I just hate seeing things as though they are a part of a movie. It's like things lose any sort of emotional value. I can read a sad story and realize that it's sad, but I just don't feel it. I don't feel like this all the time, but when I do, it feels like a personal hell.

I go back and forth a couple times a day, it's like bipolar almost. What scares me the most is my sister is bipolar, and my mothers side of the family is riddled with emotional disorders. I knew I was playing with fire from the beginning, but it never bit me in the ass until recently.

Like I said, meditation helps, along with hanging out with my friends. The problem is, I can't always hang out with my friends or meditate.

Hopefully it will wear off with some reduced drug use.




I suspect what your experiencing is reasonably common, but few have any desire to come (back) here and post about it. But rest assured these symptoms will gradually lessen over time, provided you stay sober (includes any aggravating substances). Take something like St. John’s Wort and taurine daily can really help limit the time you spend in hell. For some the combination contained in MRM Relax–All (w/ Phenibut) helps dramatically reduce symptoms, but it can’t be taken every day.

Experiencing life as one would a film and having little to no separation with your subconscious mind is grindingly difficult to deal with for months on end. But it did fade, and then gave way to even more months of amazing lucid dreams that put any exogenous drugs effects to shame. Now 18 months later, it might have all just been a dream in someone else’s mind.

While every situation is unique – I believe that stress or any kind and/or unchecked anxiety is the real problem here (the psychological stuff is really not serious, just deeply unpleasant). The number one thing to do is to relax in the knowledge that all of this is just a temporary and you’re already in the process of getting better…healing is a painful experience.




And what happens if  the reason your taking the mushrooms is to escape the stress from something that can perhaps only be cured by taking the mushrooms in the first place ?  ( clusterheadaches for one thing )

How the hell do you possibly go into something like that without getting a bad trip given whats at stake ?

That is my problem in general with Entheogens as far as healing goes, they are just too unpredictable - i should know the last trip I had cost me my smell, and unlike others here it was only my sixth... and that was only with sclerotia too.

pg


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Offlinepiratg
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Registered: 10/01/07
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Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: bholzer]
    #14496946 - 05/22/11 11:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bholzer said:
Quote:

mattritt said:
No way man, thats a shitload!!  Mimosa doseage is 5-7 grams from what I've read.  Go with psychotria though if youre gunna brew.  Jurema (mimosa brew) is full of tannins and only used traditionally by a VERY small sect.  Chacaruna (psychotria) is what most ayahuasca is traditionally made with though some use Chaliponga which contains 5-MeO-DMT, and some use a combo of both.

Over time you'll integrate the experience and come to terms with it, and really thats the most important part.  What you bring back from the experience and apply to your life.

Wish you the best of luck!



Yea, it was an irresponsible dose for sure. I used egg white clarifications and gelatin to remove most tannins, so the nausea was actually pretty nonexistent.

And I usually don't agree much with integration. I feel like pulling experiences from a trip back to the real world cause some confusion that really mess up some users. I do feel like I took something out of that experience though, because it really was VERY intense. Very extreme and vivid CEVS



Quote:

bholzer said:
Quote:

piratg said:

Can I ask a question bholzer?

Have you ever had experince before this that has completely changed a firm belief you had or your whole perception of something , I mean like an ego deah of sorts - or cockblock if you like  ?

Im not talking some vague abstract hald witted sense most folk have about doing things, Im not talking more about something very spiritually intense - like what folk get when they wait on rapture or build up to something they were dead sure of happening i.e. sometimes to the point they kill themselves if they dont.

pg



Not that I can think of. I'm extremely open-minded, so It's hard to really shake my belief system. I've never had any ideals or perceptions just completely change. When I say I think of things differently, it's more like I see it from a different perspective. Almost as though I'm thinking from someone elses mind, or like I'm thinking more thoroughly. Really hard to explain.




That is the problem though, no one can think what they are , they need to be aware of it first - the rest of what you say is just labelling / ego .

As the last guy described a bit , self awareness is like watching life as film .

So you really need to achieve that own and know your own role in the film befor you can see whats changed before using drugs.

Maybe you experinced some " soul loss " or fragmentation as i had until I managed to find someone to help.

This happens a lot more than you think but , like I said those less self aware,  tend to be resistant to it while those more " senstive " and aware simply cant afford the same level of indulgence / reckless behaviour.

If your an artsy type like me , chances are you personality / energy type will fall more into the senstive bracket - which explains the abstract sense of thinking you have too , and also the " open mindness " or lack decisiveness ( classic feminine trats )

As others say take break , perhaps do something less risky but enjoyable like pot and see a good shaman about " soul loss " , who can journey for you and retrieve any lost parts.

pg


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InvisibleCactilove
Controversial Mystic
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: joemolloy]
    #14496976 - 05/22/11 11:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Meh I can see how after a certain point quitting can be the healthiest thing. But I think having a fair share of these expierences is a healthy thing. But I have had some weird things happen to me, such as thought patterns that make me feel uncomfortable. Its weird but i cant really even remember what thoughts they are. It makes me feel like I'm no longer me but a third person Analyzing myself and other or I stop realizing who and what I am and what's really going on. Around me. I like to call it severe mind wandering syndrome. I feel like I have always had these kind of thoughts once in awhile though.


--------------------
Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.


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Offlinebholzer
quasi-scientist


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Registered: 03/22/11
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Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: Cactilove]
    #14497001 - 05/22/11 11:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cactilove said:
Meh I can see how after a certain point quitting can be the healthiest thing. But I think having a fair share of these expierences is a healthy thing. But I have had some weird things happen to me, such as thought patterns that make me feel uncomfortable. Its weird but i cant really even remember what thoughts they are. It makes me feel like I'm no longer me but a third person Analyzing myself and other or I stop realizing who and what I am and what's really going on. Around me. I like to call it severe mind wandering syndrome. I feel like I have always had these kind of thoughts once in awhile though.



This is actually a pretty good description. It describes the thoughts pretty well.


--------------------


Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.


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Invisible2shoes
The anti-agar
Male


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 3,124
Loc: Not in a SAB Flag
Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: Cactilove]
    #14497061 - 05/23/11 12:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah I'd say take a break like most I'm kind of on one right now I get the chills and kind of an emotional feeling when I think about tripping it scares me (ate too much had a semi bad trip last time) I almost scared myself off of pot with that trip. I realized how powerful these thing are and how mind bending they can be. It's wild!


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InvisibleCactilove
Controversial Mystic
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
Re: Don't know what is going on, scared of ALL drugs! [Re: bholzer]
    #14497095 - 05/23/11 12:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I wouldn't worry about these thoughts. I believe they are natural. You just need to watch how often they occur and realize when its happening so you can snap yourself out of it. These thoughts may stay with you for awhile. Ignore them if you wish. Or use them to your advantage in order to micro analyze every aspect of well, anything you can imagine. I usually am able to choose wether to dig deeper into these strange though processes or terminate them as soon as I realize I'm having them. I don't think this type of derealization would be at all uncommon after expierencing such a powerful mind altering hallucinogenic journey with grandmother aya. Just ride it out man or figure out how to deal with symptoms in a healthy way.
P.S. Joes a dick!


--------------------
Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.


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