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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: GazzBut]
    #14539803 - 05/31/11 08:39 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

Not a cast iron certainty?




Labelling anything a cast iron certainty seems like a mistake to me.




Since it has happened over and over again in the past it seems to me you would have to be a fucking idiot to expect anything else.
Quote:



Quote:

What happened the second the Israelis handed over the Gaza Strip?




Hamas continued their attacks and Israel's disproportianate response ensured the attacks would continue.




There is no such thing as a disproportionate response.  That whole concept is for assholes who want to see continued war.  Win.  Just win.  Defeat those who would kill you until they realize that it isn't in their interests to continue the fight.  Enabling assholes who whinge about disproportionate responses are actually contributing to the persistence of a warlike status in the Middle East.  Useful idiots.
Quote:



Maybe Hamas cannot be part of the solution but that doesnt mean a peaceful solution isnt possible.

If you seriously believe a peaceful solution isnt possible how do you see this situation panning out?




The only way there will be peace is if the Palestinian morons decide they want it.  I see no indication that they will chose to stop at anything short of the complete destruction of Israel.  Don't forget, the fucking assholes elected Hamas.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: GazzBut]
    #14539859 - 05/31/11 09:10 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

How many Palestinians really hold this viewpoint? How many of those how currently hold this view would definitely continue to hold this view in the light of a considerable change of position from the Israeli's?

can you answer this question?

This is an opinion not a fact.

It happened with Germany in WWI and WWII as far as I can tell.



http://www.science.co.il/History-Palestine.asp
The Oslo "Peace" accords have not brought peace. The number of terror attacks against Israel and the number of Israelis killed by Arab terror bombings greatly escalated after Oslo to a level that has not been seen since 1948 (see statistics). The Palestinian Authority has repeatedly violated all aspects of the agreement (see full report of violations).

Recent armed violence by the army of Arafat confirm the predictions that this agreement would escalate the conflict rather than subdue it (see article). In the history there are many examples of international "peace agreements" that were rapidly followed by major wars. A well known relevant case is the Munich agreement signed by Chamberlain from Great Britain and Hitler from Germany in 1938, which was rapidly revoked by Hitler as German armies invaded Czechoslovakia in 1939 (see article).

The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Fatah Constitution that is adopted as the unofficial constitution of the Palestinian Authority also calls for the destruction of the Jewish State in most of its clauses.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (05/31/11 09:30 AM)

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OfflinePhred
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: Icelander]
    #14539894 - 05/31/11 09:24 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Icelander, forum rules require a link to the source of any cut-and-pastes. Could you please edit your post to include the required link?





Phred


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: Phred]
    #14539907 - 05/31/11 09:28 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

OK


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Pallistine [Re: GazzBut]
    #14539922 - 05/31/11 09:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

How many Palestinians really hold this viewpoint?

Let me ask you a similar question.  How may Germans held the view that all Jews should be murdered in the camps?

Lets just guess it was much less than a majority.  It still happened didn't it?  It was the govt  and military that did it anyway and the people just stood by and looked away.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14544365 - 06/01/11 04:59 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

There is no such thing as a disproportionate response




Im not going to waste my time talking to you.


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Always Smi2le

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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: Icelander]
    #14544370 - 06/01/11 05:03 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

can you answer this question?




Not with any real certainty but I dont get your point?

Quote:


It happened with Germany in WWI and WWII as far as I can tell.






What has this got to do with anything?

Quote:

The Oslo "Peace" accords have not brought peace. The number of terror attacks against Israel and the number of Israelis killed by Arab terror bombings greatly escalated after Oslo to a level that has not been seen since 1948 (see statistics). The Palestinian Authority has repeatedly violated all aspects of the agreement (see full report of violations).





Do you want to get into numbers? Dont you realise who is really doing all the killing? fucks sake.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Pallistine [Re: Icelander]
    #14544373 - 06/01/11 05:05 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Let me ask you a similar question.  How may Germans held the view that all Jews should be murdered in the camps?




What point are you trying to make? The Palestinians are like the Nazis? :confused:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: GazzBut]
    #14544995 - 06/01/11 09:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Do you want to get into numbers? Dont you realise who is really doing all the killing? fucks sake.

Frankly the numbers are not that important to me. It's who is being more the aggressor and what their intent is.

If someone is attacking you and your family would you really try to make sure that you didn't hurt more of them then they had of yours?

what has that got to do with anything

It's called history and human nature.  Take the time to learn about it. Especially human nature about which you seem somewhat clueless.


Not with any real certainty but I dont get your point?

Why am I not surprised?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: GazzBut]
    #14545079 - 06/01/11 10:09 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

There is no such thing as a disproportionate response




Im not going to waste my time talking to you.



Why should anybody use less than their best efforts when faced with genocidal lunatics?  The Pally thug opponents are certainly trying their hardest.  They just so happen to be grotesquely incompetent.  Their ineptitude would be laughable if it wasn't for the nature of their goals, which is murder.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: Icelander]
    #14550012 - 06/02/11 08:57 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Frankly the numbers are not that important to me. It's who is being more the aggressor and what their intent is.




I think the numbers help to indicate who is acting in the most aggressive fashion.


Quote:

It's called history and human nature.  Take the time to learn about it. Especially human nature about which you seem somewhat clueless.





whereas you are a self proclaimed expert on human nature? To me, the idea of a human nature which remains static and therefore always predictable, is as amusing as the idea of a flat earth.


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Offlinesnoot
look alive ∞
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Folding@home Statistics
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14550514 - 06/02/11 11:50 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I think the international community should just stand back and let it sort it out. Give them a time table, and make them resolve all issues or face total annihilation. :seeya:


--------------------



I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: GazzBut]
    #14552272 - 06/02/11 06:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

Frankly the numbers are not that important to me. It's who is being more the aggressor and what their intent is.




I think the numbers help to indicate who is acting in the most aggressive fashion.


Quote:

It's called history and human nature.  Take the time to learn about it. Especially human nature about which you seem somewhat clueless.





whereas you are a self proclaimed expert on human nature? To me, the idea of a human nature which remains static and therefore always predictable, is as amusing as the idea of a flat earth.





The numbers don't necessarily indicate that at all. They may indicate who is the best at fighting.  A good fighter wins most of the time.  And as I said if a group of  killers was trying to kill my family I'd do my best to get all of them.

I'm a keen observer of human nature in myself and others. I also have done some studies on ancient history up to the present.  Twas ever thus is the phrase.  Humanity emotionally has not changed since ancient times. Taking a look at all the conflict around the world in many cultures should make this clear. The same things are motivating these conflicts as were motivating them in ancient times.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offline4896744
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: Icelander]
    #14552927 - 06/02/11 09:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

Frankly the numbers are not that important to me. It's who is being more the aggressor and what their intent is.




I think the numbers help to indicate who is acting in the most aggressive fashion.





Why are you such a pussy? Do you really think Muslims give a shit about your well-being? You are the infidel. I guarantee that if this sort of terrorism was actually affecting you, you wouldn't be such a bitch about your proposed response.


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Live your Life! :heart:

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InvisibleShins
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: 4896744]
    #14553020 - 06/02/11 10:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Forget that Zionist Irgun petty much invented modern terrorism and used it against Arab and British Palestinians, and that Netanyahu comes from a political party derived from Irgun.

Quote:

List of Irgun attacks 1937-1948
Date↓ Casualties↓ References↓
1937, March 2 Arabs killed on Bat-Yam beach. [12]
1937, November 14 10 Arabs killed by Irgun units launching attacks around Jerusalem, ("Black Sunday") [13][14]
1938, April 12 2 Arabs and 2 British policemen were killed by a bomb in a train in Haifa. [14]
1938, April 17 1 Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa [14]
1938, May 17 1 Arab policeman was killed in an attack on a bus in the Jerusalem-Hebron road. [14]
1938, May 24 3 Arabs were shot and killed in Haifa. [14]
1938, June 23 2 Arabs were killed near Tel-Aviv. [14]
1938, June 26 7 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jaffa. [14]
1938, June 27 1 Arab was killed in the yard of a hospital in Haifa. [14]
1938, June (late) Unspecified number of Arabs killed by a bomb that was thrown into a crowded Arab market place in Jerusalem. [15]
1938, July 5 7 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Tel-Aviv. [14]
1938, July 5 3 Arabs were killed by a bomb detonated in a bus in Jerusalem. [14]
1938, July 5 1 Arab was killed in another attack in Jerusalem. [14]
1938, July 6 18 Arabs and 5 Jews were killed by two simultaneous bombs in the Arab melon market in Haifa. [14][16]
1938, July 8 4 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jerusalem. [14]
1938, July 16 10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem. [14]
1938, July 25 43 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa. [14][17]
1938, August 26 24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa. [14]
1938, February 27 33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem. [18]
1939, May 29 5 Arabs were killed by a mine detonated at the Rex cinema in Jerusalem. [14]
1939, May 29 5 Arabs were shot and killed during a raid on the village of Biyar 'Adas. [14]
1939, June 2 5 Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem. [14][19]
1939, June 12 1 British bomb expert trying to defuse the bombs killed, during a post office in Jerusalem was bombing [14]
1939, June 16 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Jerusalem. [14]
1939, June 19 20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa. [14][20]
1939, June 29 13 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks around Jaffa during a one-hour period. [14][21]
1939, June 30 1 Arab was killed at a marketplace in Jerusalem. [14]
1939, June 30 2 Arabs were shot and killed in Lifta. [14]
1939, July 3 1 Arab was killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa. [14][22]
1939, July 4 2 Arabs were killed in two attacks in Jerusalem. [14]
1939, July 20 1 Arab was killed at a train station in Jaffa. [14]
1939, July 20 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Tel-Aviv. [14]
1939, July 20 3 Arabs were killed in Rehovot. [14]
1939, August 27 2 British officers were killed by a mine in Jerusalem. [14]
1944, September 27 Unknown number of casualties, around 150 Irgun members attacked four British police stations [23]
1944, September 29 1 Senior British police officer of the Criminal Intelligence Department assassinated in Jerusalem. [23]
1945, November 1 5 locomotives destroyed in Lydda station. Two staff, one soldier and one policeman killed. [24]
1945, December 27 3 British policemen and 4 Basuto soldiers killed during the bombing of British CID headquarters in Jerusalem; 1 British soldier killed during attack of British army camp in north Tel Aviv [25][26]
1946, February 22 Destroyed 14 aeroplanes at 5 RAF stations. [27]
1946, July 22 91 people were killed at King David Hotel Bombing mostly civilians, staff of the hotel or Secretariat,
41 Palestinian Arabs, 15-28 British citizens, 17 Palestinian Jews, 2 Armenians, 1 Russian, 1 Greek and 1 Egyptian. [28][29][30]
1946, October 30 2 British guards killed during Gunfire and explosion at Jerusalem Railway Station. [31]
1946, October 31 Bombing of the British Embassy in Rome. Nearly half the building was destroyed and 3 people were injured. [32]
1947, January 12 4 killed in bombing of British headquarters. [33]
1947, March 1 17 British officers killed, during raid and explosion. [34]
1947, March 12 1 British soldier killed during the attack on Schneller Camp. [34]
1947, July 29 2 kidnapped British sergeants hanged. [35]
1947, September 26 4 British policemen killed in Irgun bank robbery. [33]
1947, September 29 13 killed, 53 wounded in attack on British police station. [33]
1947, December 11 13 killed in attack on Tireh, near Haifa [36]
1947, December 12 20 killed, 5 wounded by barrel bomb at Damascus Gate. [37]
1947, December 13 6 killed, 25 wounded by bombs outside Alhambra Cinema. [38]
1947, December 13 5 killed, 47 wounded by two bombs at Damascus Gate. [38]
1947, December 13 7 killed, 10 seriously injured in attack on Yehudieh. [38]
1947, December 16(ca) 10 killed by bomb at Noga Cinema in Jaffa. [39]
1947, December 20 6 Arabs killed, dozens wounded by bomb at Haifa refinery, precipitating the Haifa Oil Refinery massacre, which lead to the Balad al-Shaykh massacre. [40]
1947, December 29 14 Arabs killed by bomb in Jerusalem. [33][41]
1948, January 1 2 Arabs killed and 9 injured by shooting attack on cafe in Jaffa. [42]
1948, January 5 14 Arabs killed and 19 injured by truck bomb outside the 3-storey 'Serrani', Jaffa's built Ottoman Town Hall [43]
1948, January 7 20 Arabs killed by bomb at Jaffa Gate. [44][45]
1948, February 10 7 Arabs killed near Ras el Ain after selling cows in Tel Aviv [46]
1948, February 18 12 Arabs killed and 43 wounded at a marketplace in Ramla [47]
1948, March 1 20 Britons killed and 30 wounded in the Bevingrad Officers Club bombing [48]
1948, April 9-April 11 107-120 Palestinians killed and massacred (the estimate generally accepted by scholars, instead the first announced number of 254) during and after the battle at the village of Deir Yassin near Jerusalem, by 132 Irgun and 60 Lehi fighters. [49][50][51][52][53]
1948, April 6 7 British soldiers, including Commanding Officer, killed during an arms raid on Pardes Hanna Army camp.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks


Israel celebrates Irgun hotel bombers


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Offline4896744
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: Shins]
    #14553077 - 06/02/11 10:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I couldn't care less, Israel isn't a threat to my well-being.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: 4896744]
    #14553107 - 06/02/11 10:16 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
I couldn't care less, Israel isn't a threat to my well-being.




No? how short sighted of you. 

And who do you perceive as being a threat, Muslim terrorists?

The ones that kill less people annually than bee stings or lightning strikes?


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Offline4896744
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: Shins]
    #14553149 - 06/02/11 10:26 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

iThink said:
I couldn't care less, Israel isn't a threat to my well-being.




No? how short sighted of you. 

And who do you perceive as being a threat, Muslim terrorists?

The ones that kill less people annually than bee stings or lightning strikes?




If we allow these fucks to grow unhindered they may actually become a threat to my well-being. They also made it harder for me to bring drugs on airplanes.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: 4896744]
    #14553203 - 06/02/11 10:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I didn't know Arab terrorists changed the laws about airplanes...  I thought the government was full of Zionists not Muslims.


The reason a threat would be growing is as a reaction to Zionist foreign policy.

So who came first, the chicken or the Zionist?

Forget that Zionists in charge of the Federal Reserve fucked over your economy and well being too...

Blame thee Muslims though, it's a much easier, convenient scapegoat for those who are lazy.


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OfflineRogerRabbitV
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Re: The 44-Year long border dispute between Israel & Palestine [Re: Shins]
    #14553434 - 06/02/11 11:13 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It appears there's a deliberate attempt by those who should know better to tie the issue of Palestinian statehood with 911.

The modern state of Israel has about as much rightful claim to Palestine, as Americans would if this country falls, have claim to go back to England, set off a bunch of terrorist bombs, kick the Brits out of their homes at gunpoint, disarm them, and then resettle US residents into those homes, claim England as the ancestral homeland of Americans and then declare all of London as the capital of the United States.  Of course, any British citizen who joins the resistance to regain his home would be shot as a terrorist and his family's home in Scotland or Ireland would be bulldozed into the ground.

The current GOP field is falling all over themselves trying to win a tiny slice of the Jewish vote, which went overwhelmingly to Obama in 2008 and will again in 2012.  What they don't care about is that a majority of Israeli Jews as well as a majority of American Jews support a peace accord based on the 1967 borders.

Even Meir Dagan, the just retired head of the Mossad spy agency who spent his career tracking down enemies of Israel, supports a peace accord based on the 1967 borders.  It's just a few whack chicken-hawks who claim those borders are a 'threat' to Israel.  Gosh, it took all of 6 days to kick the holy shit out of the Arab world from those same borders in 1967, and Israel is exponentially stronger now than it was then.

The quickest way to get it done is to cut Israel off from the endless tit of the American taxpayer and tell them if they don't want to accept peace, to do it on their own damn nickel. Our deficits are high enough without borrowing more money to finance an endless state of war just so radical politicians can pander to a tiny, but loud-mouthed constituency with our tax dollars.
RR


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