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Offlineliali
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actives ID? probably not, but just curious *DELETED*
    #14487669 - 05/21/11 12:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by liali

Reason for deletion: possibly schedule I in Virginia



Edited by liali (05/21/11 12:45 AM)


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Offlineelprawn
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14487674 - 05/21/11 12:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

1 & 2 - Hygrocybe species.


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: elprawn]
    #14487688 - 05/21/11 12:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

6, 7 - Deconica montana?


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: elprawn]
    #14487704 - 05/21/11 12:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

5. I think Russula?


Edited by elprawn (05/21/11 12:41 AM)


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Offlineliali
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious *DELETED* [Re: liali]
    #14487706 - 05/21/11 12:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by liali

Reason for deletion: possibly schedule I in Virginia



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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14487709 - 05/21/11 12:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Any chance you could number your photos?


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Offlineliali
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: elprawn]
    #14487715 - 05/21/11 12:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

heh..good idea..just a second..


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14487718 - 05/21/11 12:32 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

liali said:






Some sort of collybiod. Was thinking Rhodocollybia butyracea?


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Offlineliali
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: elprawn]
    #14487738 - 05/21/11 12:38 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

great thanks a lot ... just five minutes and already four or five new genuses (genera?) ..this is great

do you know if any are edible? the rhodocollybia (still in question) look fairly appetizing ...

also..the red ones which you thought were russula..is there a chance they are amanita species? Not really looking for muscarine mushrooms..just what I initially thought they might be:smile:


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14487745 - 05/21/11 12:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If they don't look like Russula underneath, then perhaps Gomphidius roseus?


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Offlineliali
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious *DELETED* [Re: elprawn]
    #14487805 - 05/21/11 01:00 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by liali

Reason for deletion: possibly schedule I in Virginia



Edited by liali (05/21/11 01:02 AM)


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Offlineliali
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious *DELETED* [Re: liali]
    #14487813 - 05/21/11 01:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by liali

Reason for deletion: possibly schedule I in Virginia



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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14487820 - 05/21/11 01:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

liali said:
more of possible Russulas..need a spore print I guess to verify




I think those are Russulas.






Quote:

liali said:


reminds me of P. Cinctulus a bit from what I understand of those stems





Definitely not that


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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14487868 - 05/21/11 01:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

liali said:

actually I think these might have those striations after all




Deconica :confused: . I love this picture by the way, to bad the side shot was so blurry.


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Offlineliali
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14487886 - 05/21/11 01:24 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

thanks maynard..I (personally) agree about the Deconica..new genus for me (yay - up to almost 10) :crazy2:


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14487901 - 05/21/11 01:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

god I wonder if these are ever active? do you see the small green spot on the cap of the one laying on its side? It is a psilocybe after all. Maybe the ones that were tested were not active but that doesn't mean that all patches are inactive, does it?


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Offlineliali
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14487957 - 05/21/11 01:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

no kidding? did deconica used to be psilocybe genus?  maybe bioassay them after all..I'll let you know


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Offlinegroople
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14487984 - 05/21/11 01:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You definitely do not have any amanitas. 

Psilocybe as it was defined for along time consisted of two genetically distinct clades.  Only one of the clades had psilocybin in it.  The inactive clade was split off in to Deconica.  Members of Deconica will definitely not have psilocybin in them. They are not very closely related to the bluing psilocybes - hence the split.


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: groople]
    #14488002 - 05/21/11 02:00 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

ahh ok maybe not...am I to assume then that if I trip on them that, by definition, they are psilocybes even though they macroscopically are identical to deconica?


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Offlineliali
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14488007 - 05/21/11 02:00 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

this sounds like such a regressive process to begin with


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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: groople]
    #14488024 - 05/21/11 02:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

what about variation in species and genetic mutations? If they are the same genus that would mean that they share a common ancestor correct? I thought some active mushroom that in other locations were inactive.


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Offlineliali
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14488026 - 05/21/11 02:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

psilocybe montana, in other words... even though I probably don't want to to take any..I am just confused as to how people come to a conclusion, especially on the internet about what a given specimen is...

for instance, is it more convenient to say that if what someone thought was a pan foe seems to cause strange enhanced light effects  and strange mental impressions result without any other  symptoms of poisoning or something, that they contain a psychoactive alkoloid, and it was probably psiloc(yb)in and (though it wasn't before) is now a pan subb


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14488042 - 05/21/11 02:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Deconica used to be called Psilocybe because they are macroscopically similar to bluing psilocybes, but they have no close genetic relation and the fact that they used to be placed in the genus Psilocybe is not a reason to think they are active. 

Unless you suspect them to be a particular psilocybe species, you should not eat them.  If they are Deconica montana (and I think that is a good ID) then there is no more chance that they will contain psilocybin than there is that any given random mushroom will contain psilocybin (and in fact probably less.)

Quote:

what about variation in species and genetic mutations? If they are the same genus that would mean that they share a common ancestor correct? I thought some active mushroom that in other locations were inactive.



They do not share a close common ancestor - that's exactly why they are no longer placed in the genus Psilocybe.  Once we became able to do practical genetic testing on mushrooms, a lot of genuses were redefined.


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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14488046 - 05/21/11 02:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

don't listen to me I'm high, and I don't know what I am talking about I'm still new to this also. Don't eat them please, study them and have them tested, so when the next time you find them you will know if they are any good or not. Plus adding to scientific formation is pretty kickass.


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May you be filled with loving kindness.
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AMU Q&A


Edited by maynardjameskeenan (05/21/11 02:16 AM)


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Offlinegroople
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: groople]
    #14488051 - 05/21/11 02:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

for instance, is it more convenient to say that if what someone thought was a pan foe seems to cause strange enhanced light effects  and strange mental impressions result without any other  symptoms of poisoning or something, that they contain a psychoactive alkoloid, and it was probably psiloc(yb)in and (though it wasn't before) is now a pan subb



This case is a little bit easier than pan foes vs pan subbs.  Pan foes look an awful lot like pan subbs, but the specimens you posted do not closely resemble any psilocybin containing mushrooms that would currently be fruiting.


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: groople]
    #14488067 - 05/21/11 02:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

groople said:
If they are Deconica montana




Ok..so if they do "contain psilocybin" which I don't have the equipment to determine, but they do cause qualitative mental differences and differences in vision, and thoughts which  subjectively seem similar to what people claim the effects of psilocybe mushrooms are, are they psilocybes..that is the question

not that it is of much consequence ..sorry think I'm chasing a dying topic


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Offlineliali
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: groople]
    #14488077 - 05/21/11 02:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

groople said:
Quote:

for instance, is it more convenient to say that if what someone thought was a pan foe seems to cause strange enhanced light effects  and strange mental impressions result without any other  symptoms of poisoning or something, that they contain a psychoactive alkoloid, and it was probably psiloc(yb)in and (though it wasn't before) is now a pan subb



This case is a little bit easier than pan foes vs pan subbs.  Pan foes look an awful lot like pan subbs, but the specimens you posted do not closely resemble any psilocybin containing mushrooms that would currently be fruiting.




ok...thanks..I think I have too much confirmation bias when searching anyway..trying to get better


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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14488085 - 05/21/11 02:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

if you go back and get a sample of them. take them to your nearest university mycology department and they can run tests on them. :grin:


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May you be filled with loving kindness.
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AMU Q&A


Edited by maynardjameskeenan (05/21/11 02:26 AM)


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Offlineliali
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14488096 - 05/21/11 02:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

good point...I guess I should shut up and try if I'm serious :crazy:


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OfflineJoie
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14488457 - 05/21/11 05:41 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Deconica are in Deconica precisely because they are not active but also I am not at all sure about the ID.  I don't think you should bioassay either way, or trouble your local university to run tests.  :tongue:

Don't know what Hygrocybes you have in Virginia but if I found that in the UK I would want to call it either H. insipida or H. laeta.  It isn't one of the two mentioned in the post.

I agree with elprawn about the Russulas and about Rhodocollybia also, but something like R. prolixa.  I found this key for species in NE USA if that is any help.


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: Joie]
    #14488502 - 05/21/11 06:12 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks, Joie. :smile:


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OfflineJoie
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: elprawn]
    #14488547 - 05/21/11 06:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Nice one elprawn - didn't add a lot to your IDs.  I'm trying.  :smile:


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Offlineelprawn
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: Joie]
    #14488550 - 05/21/11 06:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Reckon you'll be in my area this autumn?


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: elprawn]
    #14488752 - 05/21/11 08:20 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

That would be cool!  Let's arrange it.


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: Joie]
    #14488763 - 05/21/11 08:24 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Definitely, mate. Where is it you hail from, again?


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OfflineJoie
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: elprawn]
    #14488802 - 05/21/11 08:44 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I am from Manchester but forever running off to London and Wales.  :smile:  I have sent you a PM.


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: Joie]
    #14488828 - 05/21/11 08:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You're not a United fan, are you? :tongue:


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: elprawn]
    #14488841 - 05/21/11 09:02 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:smile: No politics in the Hunting forum, you know the rules.


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: Joie]
    #14488885 - 05/21/11 09:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I thought the rules were just there so we could abuse n00bs? :laugh:


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: elprawn]
    #14488905 - 05/21/11 09:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

elprawn said:
I thought the rules were just there so we could abuse n00bs? :laugh:




bbbaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha :lol:


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14497476 - 05/23/11 02:59 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

liali said:

actually I think these might have those striations after all



k..these are active (crazy nut said he'd bioassay them)..Deconicas might need a new genus..plus they were bruising massively..anybody have another idea?  try not referring to the list of known species in Virginia since I don't think they are


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14497489 - 05/23/11 03:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

fairly potent it looks like too..only took one dry and part of a wet cap..and they are < 2.5 cm in diameter to begin with so...any other guesses?


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14497554 - 05/23/11 03:44 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

1 - 2) Hygrocybe
3 - 4) Gymnopus dryophilus
5) Russula
6 - 7) maybe Deconica, check the spore print color
8) Russula

Quote:

elprawn said:
6, 7 - Deconica montana?




No, it doesn't grow gregariously like that.

Quote:

maynardjameskeenan said:
god I wonder if these are ever active?




No.

Quote:

do you see the small green spot on the cap of the one laying on its side?




No.

Quote:

It is a psilocybe after all.




No.

Quote:

Maybe the ones that were tested were not active but that doesn't mean that all patches are inactive, does it?




Yes.

Quote:

liali said:
no kidding? did deconica used to be psilocybe genus?  maybe bioassay them after all..I'll let you know




Please don't eat them until they are positively identified.

Quote:

maynardjameskeenan said:
what about variation in species and genetic mutations? If they are the same genus that would mean that they share a common ancestor correct?




All mushrooms share a common ancestor.

Quote:

I thought some active mushroom that in other locations were inactive.




If that is the case I would strongly suspect that they are not the same mushroom.  Definitely not the same strain.

Quote:

liali said:
psilocybe montana, in other words... even though I probably don't want to to take any..I am just confused as to how people come to a conclusion, especially on the internet about what a given specimen is...




I am confused about that too.  Does not look like Psilocybe montana to me.

Quote:

liali said:
Ok..so if they do "contain psilocybin" which I don't have the equipment to determine, but they do cause qualitative mental differences and differences in vision, and thoughts which  subjectively seem similar to what people claim the effects of psilocybe mushrooms are, are they psilocybes..that is the question





There are about 7 genera of mushrooms that contain psilocybin.  The trait seems to have evolved independently several times. 

Just because it has psilocybin does not throw it into the genus Psilocybe.

Quote:

Joie said:
Deconica are in Deconica precisely because they are not active




It is not because they are not active, it is because they are not closely related.

They also happen to be non-active.

Quote:

and about Rhodocollybia also




No they are Gymnopus dryophilus.

Quote:

elprawn said:
I thought the rules were just there so we could abuse n00bs? :laugh:




That is true.


Quote:

liali said
k..these are active (crazy nut said he'd bioassay them)




I don't think that is a good idea until these are positively identified.

"Deconicas might need a new genus"

Why?  They just got a new genus.

"plus they were bruising massively."

What color?

"anybody have another idea?"

What is the spore print color?


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #14497709 - 05/23/11 05:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Frankly, i tried these after thinking they were safe and they seem to be what I would call active. stupid I know..but I trusted the people who said D. montana and thought that bruising (which is dark and purplish an a soppy, wet brown stem) might indicate psilocin or another oxidizing compound. When I say active, I just mean that there were different mental impressions, more light phenomena (perhaps just neural discharges..not forms other than bright perceptions light temporary headlight-like impressions, not strictly "seen", just perceived)..generally a weak version of what I imagine people experience from "active" mushrooms..but I only took 2 to 3 mushrooms..so I wasn't expecting much at all and the head buzz lasted 4 to 6 hours.


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14497724 - 05/23/11 05:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)



several spore prints


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14497739 - 05/23/11 05:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)





in the bottom photo, the mushroom split down the middle (maybe hard to see, but a pine needle is pointing at it), the color in the middle of the stalk is the color of the bruising..until they were handled/picked, there was a semi-dry membrane, sort of fibrillous that lightened the stalk color. Once handled, that membrane was pressed against the dark inner stalk and began to show through..not sure if that counts as bruising


Edited by liali (05/23/11 06:54 AM)


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14497752 - 05/23/11 05:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

basically just admitting to world that I rather inadvertently took hallucinogenic shrooms..but now they are basically rotted and some of the drier ones on the patch are a completely different color (basically indistinguishable from galerinas, to me) so I threw all those out

kept a few of them..:mrt:


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #14497884 - 05/23/11 07:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
1 - 2) Hygrocybe
3 - 4) Gymnopus dryophilus
5) Russula
6 - 7) maybe Deconica, check the spore print color
8) Russula





thanks - I was hoping to determine the edibility of 3 and 4 and it looks to be edible

might try a few because they looked appetizing and wikipedia says they are generally considered edible


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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
    #14498580 - 05/23/11 11:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

thanks Alan :thumbup:


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