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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes




Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: groople]
#14488024 - 05/21/11 02:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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what about variation in species and genetic mutations? If they are the same genus that would mean that they share a common ancestor correct? I thought some active mushroom that in other locations were inactive.
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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liali
almost complete(ly insane)



Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 113
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
#14488026 - 05/21/11 02:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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psilocybe montana, in other words... even though I probably don't want to to take any..I am just confused as to how people come to a conclusion, especially on the internet about what a given specimen is...
for instance, is it more convenient to say that if what someone thought was a pan foe seems to cause strange enhanced light effects and strange mental impressions result without any other symptoms of poisoning or something, that they contain a psychoactive alkoloid, and it was probably psiloc(yb)in and (though it wasn't before) is now a pan subb
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groople
Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 401
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
#14488042 - 05/21/11 02:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Deconica used to be called Psilocybe because they are macroscopically similar to bluing psilocybes, but they have no close genetic relation and the fact that they used to be placed in the genus Psilocybe is not a reason to think they are active.
Unless you suspect them to be a particular psilocybe species, you should not eat them. If they are Deconica montana (and I think that is a good ID) then there is no more chance that they will contain psilocybin than there is that any given random mushroom will contain psilocybin (and in fact probably less.)
Quote:
what about variation in species and genetic mutations? If they are the same genus that would mean that they share a common ancestor correct? I thought some active mushroom that in other locations were inactive.
They do not share a close common ancestor - that's exactly why they are no longer placed in the genus Psilocybe. Once we became able to do practical genetic testing on mushrooms, a lot of genuses were redefined.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes




Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
#14488046 - 05/21/11 02:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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don't listen to me I'm high, and I don't know what I am talking about I'm still new to this also. Don't eat them please, study them and have them tested, so when the next time you find them you will know if they are any good or not. Plus adding to scientific formation is pretty kickass.
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
Edited by maynardjameskeenan (05/21/11 02:16 AM)
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groople
Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 401
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: groople]
#14488051 - 05/21/11 02:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
for instance, is it more convenient to say that if what someone thought was a pan foe seems to cause strange enhanced light effects and strange mental impressions result without any other symptoms of poisoning or something, that they contain a psychoactive alkoloid, and it was probably psiloc(yb)in and (though it wasn't before) is now a pan subb
This case is a little bit easier than pan foes vs pan subbs. Pan foes look an awful lot like pan subbs, but the specimens you posted do not closely resemble any psilocybin containing mushrooms that would currently be fruiting.
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liali
almost complete(ly insane)



Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 113
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: groople]
#14488067 - 05/21/11 02:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
groople said: If they are Deconica montana
Ok..so if they do "contain psilocybin" which I don't have the equipment to determine, but they do cause qualitative mental differences and differences in vision, and thoughts which subjectively seem similar to what people claim the effects of psilocybe mushrooms are, are they psilocybes..that is the question
not that it is of much consequence ..sorry think I'm chasing a dying topic
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liali
almost complete(ly insane)



Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 113
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: groople]
#14488077 - 05/21/11 02:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
groople said:
Quote:
for instance, is it more convenient to say that if what someone thought was a pan foe seems to cause strange enhanced light effects and strange mental impressions result without any other symptoms of poisoning or something, that they contain a psychoactive alkoloid, and it was probably psiloc(yb)in and (though it wasn't before) is now a pan subb
This case is a little bit easier than pan foes vs pan subbs. Pan foes look an awful lot like pan subbs, but the specimens you posted do not closely resemble any psilocybin containing mushrooms that would currently be fruiting.
ok...thanks..I think I have too much confirmation bias when searching anyway..trying to get better
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes




Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
#14488085 - 05/21/11 02:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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if you go back and get a sample of them. take them to your nearest university mycology department and they can run tests on them.
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
Edited by maynardjameskeenan (05/21/11 02:26 AM)
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liali
almost complete(ly insane)


Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 113
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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good point...I guess I should shut up and try if I'm serious
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Joie


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 7,301
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: liali]
#14488457 - 05/21/11 05:41 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Deconica are in Deconica precisely because they are not active but also I am not at all sure about the ID. I don't think you should bioassay either way, or trouble your local university to run tests. 
Don't know what Hygrocybes you have in Virginia but if I found that in the UK I would want to call it either H. insipida or H. laeta. It isn't one of the two mentioned in the post.
I agree with elprawn about the Russulas and about Rhodocollybia also, but something like R. prolixa. I found this key for species in NE USA if that is any help.
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elprawn
Mushroom Guestimator



Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 14,303
Loc: Ilford, England
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: Joie]
#14488502 - 05/21/11 06:12 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks, Joie.
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Joie


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 7,301
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: elprawn]
#14488547 - 05/21/11 06:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nice one elprawn - didn't add a lot to your IDs. I'm trying.
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elprawn
Mushroom Guestimator



Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 14,303
Loc: Ilford, England
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: Joie]
#14488550 - 05/21/11 06:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Reckon you'll be in my area this autumn?
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Joie


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 7,301
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: elprawn]
#14488752 - 05/21/11 08:20 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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That would be cool! Let's arrange it.
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elprawn
Mushroom Guestimator



Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 14,303
Loc: Ilford, England
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: Joie]
#14488763 - 05/21/11 08:24 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Definitely, mate. Where is it you hail from, again?
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Joie


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 7,301
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: elprawn]
#14488802 - 05/21/11 08:44 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I am from Manchester but forever running off to London and Wales. I have sent you a PM.
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elprawn
Mushroom Guestimator



Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 14,303
Loc: Ilford, England
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: Joie]
#14488828 - 05/21/11 08:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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You're not a United fan, are you?
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Joie


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 7,301
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: elprawn]
#14488841 - 05/21/11 09:02 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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No politics in the Hunting forum, you know the rules.
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elprawn
Mushroom Guestimator



Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 14,303
Loc: Ilford, England
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: Joie]
#14488885 - 05/21/11 09:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I thought the rules were just there so we could abuse n00bs?
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison



Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 13,948
Loc: Mos Eisley,
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: actives ID? probably not, but just curious [Re: elprawn]
#14488905 - 05/21/11 09:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
elprawn said: I thought the rules were just there so we could abuse n00bs? 
bbbaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha
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