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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14484680 - 05/20/11 02:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
If you weigh it, theres figuring and making things fit into this size or that. Not that it doesnt work, I just dont think its easier.




Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, I do that part- the freestyling- when I select my tubs.
But then that tells me the amount of material I need. It's always the same for a particular tub.


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Offlineavaldez314
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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: wygram]
    #14484699 - 05/20/11 02:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Doctor_Inoc said:
Good advice, wygram.  I like to go as low as 3-5% when adding gypsum to my bulk substrates.  When using chicken manure as an additive, I never go over 3% because like you said, chicken manure's some potent shit. 

OP has still not gotten back and stated whether or not the coir they bought is "treated" for plant growth.  This is very important because if the coir OP purchased is treated with trichoderma then you can throw out using the boiling water and bucket tek for the coir will need to be pasteurized, properly.



Quote:

wygram said:
Bulk substrates do not have to be mixed with strict adherence to any ratio. Eye balling amounts works well. You can go with 50/50 coir to verm or any ratio containing more coir, down to 20% verm works well. Get some gypsum and add 5-10% by volume, again eye balling the amounts is just fine. Chicken manure at 5% adds a nice boost, though you want to be careful with not going over this amount because chicken manure is potent.

Good bulk substrates are created not by holding to a strict ratio of ingredients, but rather providing a varied source of nutrition to the mushrooms.

Remember to pasteurize properly when using manure based substrates. Even with just coir/verm/gypsum the proper pasteurization method of bringing the substrate up to 140 degrees F for one hour should be followed, anything less is simply asking for trouble.



Quote:

wygram said:
Bulk substrates do not have to be mixed with strict adherence to any ratio. Eye balling amounts works well. You can go with 50/50 coir to verm or any ratio containing more coir, down to 20% verm works well. Get some gypsum and add 5-10% by volume, again eye balling the amounts is just fine. Chicken manure at 5% adds a nice boost, though you want to be careful with not going over this amount because chicken manure is potent.

Good bulk substrates are created not by holding to a strict ratio of ingredients, but rather providing a varied source of nutrition to the mushrooms.

Remember to pasteurize properly when using manure based substrates. Even with just coir/verm/gypsum the proper pasteurization method of bringing the substrate up to 140 degrees F for one hour should be followed, anything less is simply asking for trouble.





Thank you! It's good to know that eyeball proportions works well, do those proportions apply to dry or wet coir?


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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: avaldez314]
    #14484850 - 05/20/11 02:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I believe that coir should work fine and it looks clean..dunno if you could see a difference. I would imagine a heat treatment would render it fully usable. As far as how much..a brick makes about 7-8 dry quarts of expanded coir, so thats how much you would use in recipes calling for a brick. Or again, you could eyeball it.


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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14484866 - 05/20/11 03:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Gonna have to eyeball it a few times. Let us know how it goes.

:popcorn:


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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14485211 - 05/20/11 04:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

questions for scatmanrav and doc_t:

you both mention using the large bricks of coir. im guessing its from a hydro store, what brand do you use?

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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: Ajaxx]
    #14485231 - 05/20/11 04:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Mine come from the local garden center. They only have one brand, but I don't know what it is. Procoir, maybe.


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Offlineavaldez314
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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: Ajaxx]
    #14485271 - 05/20/11 04:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Any clue about if the standard pasteurization procedure will kill trichoderma spores (in case that this coir was treated) ?

If not... any suggestion to be on the safe side? (I already read that sterilizing coir isn't a good idea).


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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: avaldez314]
    #14485277 - 05/20/11 04:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

yes, it will kill trich spores. bring it to a full rolling boil, then dump it on the coir in a 5 gallon bucket.

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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: avaldez314]
    #14485648 - 05/20/11 05:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
I believe that coir should work fine and it looks clean..dunno if you could see a difference. I would imagine a heat treatment would render it fully usable. As far as how much..a brick makes about 7-8 dry quarts of expanded coir, so thats how much you would use in recipes calling for a brick. Or again, you could eyeball it.



I concur with this.  That coir sounds ok to me use with the boiling water and bucket tek, being that the package doesn't state that it's been treated with trichoderma and the person at the store you bought it from confirmed the same thing upon you asking (good move mind you).

It's not so much about exact measurements, more so about ratios.  Just use a 1:2-3 spawn to bulk substrate ratio and make your substrate 2-4 inches thick.  As far as the preparation of the coir, IMHO/E, I'd just mix all the substrate materials together at the ratios explained by wygram, bring them to field capacity, and pasteurize the substrate materials. 

I think that pasteurizing (in your case) would be easier then trying to figure out how much water to pour over X amount of substrate materials.  Not to mention, a safer way to get in the habit of preparing substrate materials.

At the link below goes the tek that's the current industry standard for pasteurizing bulk substrate materials, properly. 
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Horse-Manure-Substrate

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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: Doctor_Inoc]
    #14487178 - 05/20/11 10:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I get it from harvest moon hydroponics, they have two brands, neither have a visible name..it all seems to work the same though, its just tiny strands great for mycelia networks.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: Ajaxx]
    #14488941 - 05/21/11 09:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ajaxx said:
yes, it will kill trich spores. bring it to a full rolling boil, then dump it on the coir in a 5 gallon bucket.



dumping boiling water onto coir in a bucket will NOT kill trichoderma spores.


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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: k00laid]
    #14488988 - 05/21/11 10:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thankfully, coir is naturally contam-resistant, so if boiling water doesn't kill trich, it doesn't matter. Not much will grow on straight coir except mushroom mycelium.


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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: k00laid]
    #14489037 - 05/21/11 10:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
Quote:

Ajaxx said:
yes, it will kill trich spores. bring it to a full rolling boil, then dump it on the coir in a 5 gallon bucket.



dumping boiling water onto coir in a bucket will NOT kill trichoderma spores.




...really? because you saying that is the first time ive ever heard that pasteurizing coir wont kill trich spores... theres a reason why you dump boiling water onto it :facepalm: to kill any mold/bacteria spores and create a sterile substrate.

pasteurizing will kill trich.

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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: Ajaxx]
    #14489058 - 05/21/11 10:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

plus, most coir doesnt have trich added. ive never ran into it. i used sunleaves brand coir from a hydro store on my first grow, and my next grow ill be using botanicare coco gro. and people say hydro store coir has trich in it... it would say on the package if it does, and ive never seen it on any packages. it always says organic or no additives.

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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: Ajaxx]
    #14489068 - 05/21/11 10:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If you buy coir from the pet store you're guaranteed to have clean coir. As for hydro stores, read the label. It's a HUGE selling point for coir produces to add trich to their coir for plant use. The label will state whether or not trich is added.

If you're doing Damion5050's tek w/ coir, it's not true & proper pasteurization, but doesn't need to be because coir is so contam resistant in itself. Just like Verm.


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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: Ajaxx]
    #14489114 - 05/21/11 10:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

ive looked a lot of coir bricks but havent ran into one with a label that says trich added.

i would imagine hydro stores wouldnt carry coir with anything added because if youre buying coir from a hydro store, youre probably using it as a soil less mix with a drip system. in which case, the coir wont have anything in it for that reason. for control over what your plants are getting. thats the point of soil less mixture.

now if you buy from a garden center, most people get stuff from there for potted plants, not hydro, so trich would be beneficial to them.

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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: Ajaxx]
    #14489192 - 05/21/11 11:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ajaxx said:
theres a reason why you dump boiling water onto it :facepalm: to kill any mold/bacteria spores and create a sterile substrate.

pasteurizing will kill trich.




im just going to quote this and walk away from this thread.

those who know. know.


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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: k00laid]
    #14489213 - 05/21/11 11:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:imwithstupid:


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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: k00laid]
    #14489214 - 05/21/11 11:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
Quote:

Ajaxx said:
theres a reason why you dump boiling water onto it :facepalm: to kill any mold/bacteria spores and create a sterile substrate.

pasteurizing will kill trich.




im just going to quote this and walk away from this thread.

those who know. know.




can you as least explain so i can learn something? why use boiling water? what does it do if it isnt killing spores and mold and shit? ive read numerous places that doing this will kill trich spores. im just a noob so im going off what others have said on here. plus, ive used hydro store coir and never got a contamination.

Edited by Ajaxx (05/21/11 11:16 AM)

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Re: Uncompressed coir and vermiculite mix proportions ? [Re: Ajaxx]
    #14489247 - 05/21/11 11:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ajaxx said:
Quote:

k00laid said:
Quote:

Ajaxx said:
theres a reason why you dump boiling water onto it :facepalm: to kill any mold/bacteria spores and create a sterile substrate.

pasteurizing will kill trich.




im just going to quote this and walk away from this thread.

those who know. know.




can you as least explain so i can learn something? why use boiling water? what does it do if it isnt killing spores and mold and shit? ive read numerous places that doing this will kill trich spores. im just a noob so im going off what others have said on here. plus, ive used hydro store coir and never got a contamination.




as far as i know. it takes ~90 minutes at 250 degrees Fahrenheit to kill trichoderma spores.


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