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TheAnimate
Stranger

Registered: 01/12/09
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How can I improve my sterile technique for monotubs?
#14485510 - 05/20/11 05:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I live in an apartment and don't have a martha or a mister or anything like that. I make quart jars of rye berries, with injection ports and tyvek filters, and they colonize amazingly, usually appearing to fully colonize within 10 days(although I leave them in for longer). I load my monotubs with coir, coffee, verm, and gypsum, and usually use a 3:1 ratio with my colonized rye berries.
Recently, all my monotubs have been getting trich before their first flush. They start off colonizing quickly, and sometimes even appear to finish, but they've all gotten trich and failed to fruit. I've tried fanning more often, less often, or not at all. I've tried increasing pasteurization time to 3 hours, and I've tried sterilizing the coir by loading it into jars and PCing them(that one fared the worst of all). But so far nothing has helped. How can I work on my sterile technique? Or should I just try a different bulk grow method? Living in an apartment kind of limits my options, in that respect.
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ecto1
Stranger


Registered: 03/25/11
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Loc: Down Under
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for monotubs? [Re: TheAnimate]
#14485599 - 05/20/11 05:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I would try getting rid of the coffee. I've read about a lot of people getting trich that use coffee. I have never used it so I don't have any first hand experience but I have also never gotten trich and I use straight coir.
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Mycjunky
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for monotubs? [Re: ecto1]
#14485633 - 05/20/11 05:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yea definitely get rid of the coffee used to have the same issue when I used to use it.
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mister
Nature nut



Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 2,926
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for monotubs? [Re: Mycjunky]
#14485748 - 05/20/11 06:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
ecto1 said: I would try getting rid of the coffee. I've read about a lot of people getting trich that use coffee. I have never used it so I don't have any first hand experience but I have also never gotten trich and I use straight coir.
Quote:
Mycjunky said: Yea definitely get rid of the coffee used to have the same issue when I used to use it.
Same here, Coffee seemed to raise the mold factor for me as well. Once I stopped using it, trich was almost eliminated. If you can manage to get one, I always set up my mono's in front of the flowhood.
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shroomiin
unprofound


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 2,470
Loc: Zone 6
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for monotubs? [Re: mister]
#14486892 - 05/20/11 09:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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coffee is fine if you store it and sterilize it properly...
To store long term i dry them out at low temp in the oven with the door open a little.
Before i mix into my sub,1 qt coffee 1 qt verm then dump it in a bucket with a brick of coir, then i dump 1.5 gallons of boiling water on top and cover. Never had a problem.
Edited by shroomiin (05/20/11 10:53 PM)
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mabachko
Just Strange



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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for monotubs? [Re: shroomiin]
#14486933 - 05/20/11 09:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Just use coffee liquid in your soak of the berries or wbs at no more than 50%, but I would go lower than that, like 25-30%
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deadmandave
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Registered: 02/16/10
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for monotubs? [Re: shroomiin]
#14486984 - 05/20/11 10:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Where is your spawn coming from? Perhaps it is contaminated and its not the substrate at all. Sterilizing a sub makes it more susceptible to contamination because nearly all microbes die leaving an open pallet for anything to move on in.
How are you pasteurizing the sub? the boiling water in a 5 gal. bucket teknique is not true pasteurization and can be improved upon.
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TheAnimate
Stranger

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 126
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for monotubs? [Re: deadmandave]
#14487595 - 05/21/11 12:05 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ah, I will definitely try dropping the coffee. I just use the water in the bucket, but even so, it stays at least 160f for at least one hour that way, so I dunno if the pasteurization technique is to blame. Definitely open to any suggestions you have for other methods, though.
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



Registered: 04/25/11
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for monotubs? [Re: TheAnimate]
#14487633 - 05/21/11 12:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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If youve got trich issues then u may need to thoroughly clean your apparment. It could be floating around.
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Luger0815
noob


Registered: 12/21/10
Posts: 1,677
Loc: @ Home
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for mono-tubs? [Re: TheAnimate]
#14487643 - 05/21/11 12:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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As all the others said. If you let out the coffee you dont have to fear contams.
Edited by Luger0815 (07/04/11 10:54 AM)
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Luger0815
noob


Registered: 12/21/10
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for mono-tubs? [Re: Luger0815]
#14487685 - 05/21/11 12:25 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Edited by Luger0815 (07/04/11 10:54 AM)
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CommunistRemix
boob man


Registered: 05/16/11
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for mono-tubs? [Re: Luger0815]
#14487789 - 05/21/11 12:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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CUTE KITTY!!!!!! and also just drop the coffee and steam clean your entire apart once a month, thats what i do, if you cant afford the steam cleaning apparatus than just clean thouroughly and bombard everything with lysol, h2o2, alcahol, get yourself some non reusable cleaning lady gloves,and a bottle of hand disinfectant.
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wygram
Myconaut

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 573
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for mono-tubs? [Re: CommunistRemix]
#14488341 - 05/21/11 04:32 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Contamination of the substrate before the first flush is a problem with what you are doing before spawning, rather than after.
Sterilizing is worse than pasteurization. Proper pasteurization should allow you to use coffee in your substrates without problems.
How are you measuring the temperature at the center of the pasteurizing substrate? How are you sure that you are using clean spawn?
-------------------- Changing your mind is one of the best ways of finding out whether or not you still have one.
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ManicMongrel
Paragorn of pointless comments


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 253
Loc: Across the Atlantic
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for mono-tubs? [Re: TheAnimate]
#14488542 - 05/21/11 06:33 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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How do you sterilize your equipment between the grows? If you rely on ethanol alone, trich will be a constant menace. I had wipe everything plastic in ammonia to kill the trich spores.
You could try some isolated spawning first, spawn from rye to the bulk mix on separate jars, then remove the rye-spawn and use the jars to knock up bulks. If you have lots of trich spores circulating anything grain based is very vulnerable in my experience.
-------------------- Rules and laws are guidelines, to follow them by definition is equivalent to ignoring responsibility - Let me know if anything in my Trade List got your attention! New asian pan varieties up for trade [10.july.2013] "Familiarity breeds contempt"
Edited by ManicMongrel (05/21/11 06:51 AM)
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TheAnimate
Stranger

Registered: 01/12/09
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for mono-tubs? [Re: ManicMongrel]
#14500540 - 05/23/11 06:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't acutally know for sure that my jars of rye berries aren't contaminated, I just assume they're fine because they colonize so quickly and fully. I've been using alcohol to sterilize my tubs, but you say I need ammonia? I'll definitely look into that.
Thanks for all the advice guys, I'll start a new grow soon, without the coffee.
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BillyMaysHere
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Registered: 04/10/10
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for mono-tubs? [Re: TheAnimate]
#14500575 - 05/23/11 06:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Are you sure you are pasteurizing your bulk substrate properly? When I first started with monotubs I was getting trich before my first flush every time, then I realized I wasn't getting my bulk substrate quite hot enough when I was pasteurizing. I refined my method, and I haven't had a problem since.
-------------------- But wait, there's more...
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for mono-tubs? [Re: TheAnimate]
#14500633 - 05/23/11 06:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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You say they colonize real fast and u have injection ports, so I assume you're talking about a liquid culture.
If it's a sugar lc I would look there first and foremost because it is such a common occurrence for those to go bad on you. If that's the case you'll want to change to either GLC (grain liquid culture) or grain to grain transfer.
The way to find out if this is the issue is a very handy trick. You break up the spawn the day or 2 before you're going to use it and you watch it. If it's contaminated in any way it will reconstitute itself very slowly and have a clumpy appearance and may even start to display wetspot. If it is reconsolidating happily, then it's clean. It really helps when doing g2g cuz if it saves you from using 1 bad jar as a master, it saves 10 jars from going bad.
I wouldn't obsess too much about the spore count in the apartment. If your procedure is solid enuff, the ambient spore countt is fairly irrelevent, at least with regard to the first flush.
First flush trich is either dirty spawn or dirty substrate or dirty tub/liner or the substrate got sopping wet from condensation because the liner was taped to the sides or because there was no gas exchange during colonization.
Not that cleaning isn't important. It's good in principle to minimize the spore count, but I wouldn't start there when trying to correct the problem. Removing the coffee is a good start. And btw I have complete faith in the bucket tek. I wouldn't assume that's the issue. Many successful growers are using the bucket tek exclusively.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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mister
Nature nut



Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 2,926
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for mono-tubs? [Re: anonjon]
#14500732 - 05/23/11 07:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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This method kicks ass. Works everytime for me in the past. Contradictory to what is said, but results are in the pics.
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   AMU Q & A thread  
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TheAnimate
Stranger

Registered: 01/12/09
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for mono-tubs? [Re: mister]
#14506765 - 05/24/11 08:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ah, I've had my LC contaminated before, and it was super obvious. The rye just grew trich right off the bat.
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ic3.qu33n
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Registered: 03/24/11
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Loc: NY
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Re: How can I improve my sterile technique for mono-tubs? [Re: ManicMongrel]
#14506834 - 05/24/11 09:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
ManicMongrel said: How do you sterilize your equipment between the grows? If you rely on ethanol alone, trich will be a constant menace. I had wipe everything plastic in ammonia to kill the trich spores.
You could try some isolated spawning first, spawn from rye to the bulk mix on separate jars, then remove the rye-spawn and use the jars to knock up bulks. If you have lots of trich spores circulating anything grain based is very vulnerable in my experience.
is ammonia good? i know combining bleach/ammonia could kill you but would ammonia suffice instead of bleach
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