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InvisibleFerdinando
Male

Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,682
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: joemolloy] * 1
    #14482867 - 05/20/11 05:32 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I know what you mean by psychs turn you into retard
not true though
habits unfold
the habits you shared with other people which clicked with their frame of reference and were part of your normality
it is easy to stick out as a psychedelic user and you might call that being retarded
I think you overemphasize the value of fitting in and being good at playing games
for me psychedelic is medicine. essentially good and secondarily concentration enhancer + wisdom enhancer etc.
psychs really are medicine
no matter what some people think of you

edit: the above is true


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world

Edited by Ferdinando (05/20/11 05:35 AM)

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OfflineFUTURIST
In another land...
Male

Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 736
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: joemolloy]
    #14483007 - 05/20/11 06:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hey Joe I was just wondering about you yesterday... when will you get  bored of tripping. For me I always loved it so much and its all I think about. because I can't get mushrooms I want them so much more. And for like a yr the only thing I thought about is DMT. Now I don't even care to smoke it. And now you switched to Cactus because you haven't worn it out yet... I don't think it will be long before you get bored of that too.

I wonder someday maybe 5-10 yrs from now if you will be the type of person who would never touch it again.

Anyways I have read a lot of your post I'm going to copy and paste some of them because they were amazing. After I read your post I can't even stand reading stupid hippy talk on DMT forums anymore its just as bad as religion to me.

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: Ferdinando]
    #14483132 - 05/20/11 07:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ferdinando said:
I know what you mean by psychs turn you into retard
not true though
habits unfold
the habits you shared with other people which clicked with their frame of reference and were part of your normality
it is easy to stick out as a psychedelic user and you might call that being retarded
I think you overemphasize the value of fitting in and being good at playing games
for me psychedelic is medicine. essentially good and secondarily concentration enhancer + wisdom enhancer etc.
psychs really are medicine
no matter what some people think of you

edit: the above is true




I appreciate what you are saying Fernando, but consensus reality is where my bread is buttered and I need to navigate the world with a rational, logical, and clear head.  I enjoy my successes and the rewards that I've earned.  Unfortunately, I don't feel these drugs have served as a medicine or given me any wisdom at all or enhanced my ability to think critically - they've done the opposite and it took me a while to understand that.

I hope your life is enriched by your psychedelic experiences but beware that it is an incredibly seductive bitch and the smarter and more intellectual you are, the deeper you can get drawn in and the webs you weave can be so beautifully deceptive.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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OfflineDosile Kouki
derp


Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 14,963
Loc: Paradise
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: joemolloy]
    #14483171 - 05/20/11 07:37 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Joe is a very high calibre individual, who i believe has succeeded in the ' real world ' more then any of you have. he also has extensive psychedelic experience, again, i'm guessing more so then most of you have.

Regardless of whether you agree or not with his opinions and viewpoints, i think you should atleast listen to them and consider them, as they are obviously coming from someone who has been there before and knows what they are on about.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: FUTURIST]
    #14483251 - 05/20/11 07:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

FUTURIST said:
Hey Joe I was just wondering about you yesterday... when will you get  bored of tripping. For me I always loved it so much and its all I think about. because I can't get mushrooms I want them so much more. And for like a yr the only thing I thought about is DMT. Now I don't even care to smoke it. And now you switched to Cactus because you haven't worn it out yet... I don't think it will be long before you get bored of that too.

I wonder someday maybe 5-10 yrs from now if you will be the type of person who would never touch it again.






My ideal drug taking situation would be that I could trip occasionally whenever it felt like the right time - and feeling right happens a few times a year, not weekly.  I wish I could treat drug-taking casually, like something I rarely thought about.  It still consumes my thoughts to an uncomfortable degree.  I think I am making progress in that direction since for the past five weeks I haven't had to fight myself to not trip, it just feels better to not trip.

People who can take drugs throughout their lives and not have periods of addiction or obsession are some lucky fuckers.  People who can keep their shit under control and not have negative consequences from the lifestyle are rare indeed.  People who decide to embrace this world and actually have sustained and consistent positive consequences are even rarer.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: Comradez] * 1
    #14483308 - 05/20/11 08:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Comradez said:

Edit:  I should elaborate my position on the truth-claims of psychedelics.  While I don't see it as wise to come to many, if any, firm conclusions about the truth of reality based on one's experiences with psychedelics, I do think that engaging with the questions that come up can be a fun and healthy way to exercise one's mind (in moderation).  Psychedelics precisely do make one THINK...a lot.  In my opinion, many people get through life while doing far too little thinking.  It is also possible to do too much thinking.  But yeah, I see nothing wrong with engaging with ideas such as, "Maybe I'm living in someone else's dream...holyshitwhatthefuck?!" as if they might be true...although to come to an affirmative conclusion on such far-out questions is always risky, which warrants the most extreme skepticism and logical/evidential proof to match these extraordinary claims.




These are wise words, and you're whole post was an excellent assessment of these issues.

You are right that in moderation these drugs can make you think in new and perhaps profound ways.  I think someone who trips once or twice in their lives may benefit from understanding the limits of sober thought and the power (good, bad, or otherwise) of these drugs.  Once you move into the cultural level of Shroomery tripping it becomes more difficult to discern positive results from negative ones.  The line between reality and nonsense begins to blur and bullshit detectors somehow malfunction.  This is a slow, subtle process punctuated with euphoria and support from fellow psychonaut travelers.  It's difficult to stay anchored and grounded after a while if you are totally immersed in the magic.  And it certainly feels magical, more enchanting than anything in the world, its seems to spring straight from a divine whirlpool of godliness.  That shit is hard for the rational mind to defend against.  That's the crux of the problem for those who wish to keep a firm footing in consensus reality.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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OfflinePhantomPower
Stranger


Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 80
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: joemolloy]
    #14483391 - 05/20/11 08:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I've certainly fallen into the traps covered in this thread in the past.  Whether it be trying to discover some larger truth, or trying to untie my psychological knots. 

What I've realized is that I pretty much either have a new insight in the days following a trip or I don't.  Where things got frustrating is that I'd expect new insights, and get bummed out and want to try again if it didn't happen.  Or I'd look at a trip from every angle looking for "the message."  And more often than not, it was just a bunch of stuff that happened.


--------------------


When the going gets tough, I get high.

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Offlinebholzer
quasi-scientist


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 2,409
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: PhantomPower]
    #14483641 - 05/20/11 10:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Joe, you always manage to put the stuff I'm thinking into the right words, well done.

I find myself thinking about these drugs too frequently. It's an area of expertise for me, and I'm not sure that I'm too proud of it. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather know everything before I do these drugs, but now I'm almost obsessed. Not even addicted, because I can keep my use moderate, but some how I manage to stay obsessed. Hell, I have DREAMS about mushrooms and acid!

I find that I have a little emotional and mental trouble over the last month, and that is since I've started my break (because of a rough trip).

I have noticed that my psychedelic use has left me open to using new drugs. Nothing like heroin or cocaine or similar, but still new and various drugs. And I don't think this is good for me at this point in my life where I'm trying to get everything settled out.

I wish I'd been able to stop after my best trip, but I thought I could take it further and make it more amazing. I guess that's what we all do, try to take it to the next level. I was addicted to how powerful I could feel. I realized how powerful my mind could be when unlocked on psychedelics.

I don't even really know what I'm trying to say, I just felt it needed to be said, and that it was relevant here.:shrug:

Peace and love everyone :peace:


--------------------


Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.

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Invisibleotherwhitemeat
Female User Gallery
Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 875
Loc: Florida
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: joemolloy]
    #14483758 - 05/20/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said: It's difficult to speak in absolutes, but for the overwhelming majority of users, these drugs are probably more damaging than helpful.




See, here I wish you'd said "for everybody," so I could reject your statement out of hand, but as you've left me an out, now I'm thinking that I must be one of the few special privileged ones, or lucky fuckers as you say later. Way to set me up!

I trip a few times a year, have for years. I eat mushrooms. I love the hell out of them. They do me good. They forbid me from taking too often, meaning that I got my ass kicked so hard the few times I approached them without the kind of respect it takes months to build that I just can't go there more often. They put the fear of god into me.

I have tried weed and don't like it. I have tried ayahuasca in Santo Daime and (so far) do not feel it offers me something mushrooms do not, apart from a ritual social context which is interesting. I have stopped drinking. I don't/haven't taken anything else and I don't feel drawn. Maybe it's because I'm a family man and run a business and just can't make the time to pursue such hypothetical interests. Gateway?

Let's see, you've posted 1.81 times a day since you registered in 2009. And I have posted 0.25 times a day since 2006. Yep my man, you are obsessed with drugs and take them too much. You have bullshitified them. Sorry dude! That only sounds snide. I'm sorry. I read on this here board many times not to trip too often. I haven't needed much convincing from outside to know this is wise.

If I have a regret, it's minor: I can't share my experiences with people I know and in some cases love, because I know I sound crazy and it frightens them. I am pleased to be able to contain craziness better than a Japanese reactor core, so far. Containment is itself a strength-building exercise.

Edited by otherwhitemeat (05/20/11 01:19 PM)

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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: otherwhitemeat]
    #14484064 - 05/20/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I can't agree with the gateway theory..
I was a hard drug user long before I started tripping.
In fact hard drugs were a gateway to tripping. They always seemed safer than tripping, probably because I knew exactly what was going to happen.


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One

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Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
Loc: Denver, CO Flag
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: joemolloy]
    #14484099 - 05/20/11 12:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Most people who get into a drug like heroin have had intense psychedelic stints.





Most people who get into a drug like heroin have also smoked a lot of cigarettes...
Drank a lot of booze...

This insinuation that psychedelics lead to harder drugs is retarded.
Case in point: Iboga is one of the most effective treatments for heroin addiction.

The only reason that "heroin" and "psychedelic" are in the same sentence is because they are both illegal.
Not because one precludes the other.


--------------------

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Invisibleotherwhitemeat
Female User Gallery
Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 875
Loc: Florida
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: joemolloy]
    #14484395 - 05/20/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said: That shit is hard for the rational mind to defend against.




fascinating.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14484716 - 05/20/11 02:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ifoundwaldo said:
Quote:

joemolloy said:
Most people who get into a drug like heroin have had intense psychedelic stints.





Most people who get into a drug like heroin have also smoked a lot of cigarettes...
Drank a lot of booze...

This insinuation that psychedelics lead to harder drugs is retarded.
Case in point: Iboga is one of the most effective treatments for heroin addiction.

The only reason that "heroin" and "psychedelic" are in the same sentence is because they are both illegal.
Not because one precludes the other.




I'm familiar with the anti-Gateway Theory arguments and I think both sides have some good points.  However, in my own experience smoking cigarettes softened me up to weed and weed softened me up to psychedelics.  That's a personal fact because the pre-cigarette and pre-marijuana Joe Molloy couldn't conceive of ever taking LSD.  It was a gradual wearing down of my previous defenses.  I am sure I am not unique.

Heroin and psychedelic are in the same sentence because they are both drugs that have a tremendous psychological impact on the user.  Interestingly if you ever read some of the writings from heroin users in the Romantic literary period you'd think they were writing about DMT or some other powerful tripping experience.  Kinda funny, eh?


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: otherwhitemeat]
    #14484726 - 05/20/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

latherdome said:
Quote:

joemolloy said: It's difficult to speak in absolutes, but for the overwhelming majority of users, these drugs are probably more damaging than helpful.




See, here I wish you'd said "for everybody," so I could reject your statement out of hand, but as you've left me an out, now I'm thinking that I must be one of the few special privileged ones, or lucky fuckers as you say later. Way to set me up!

I trip a few times a year, have for years. I eat mushrooms. I love the hell out of them. They do me good. They forbid me from taking too often, meaning that I got my ass kicked so hard the few times I approached them without the kind of respect it takes months to build that I just can't go there more often. They put the fear of god into me.

I have tried weed and don't like it. I have tried ayahuasca in Santo Daime and (so far) do not feel it offers me something mushrooms do not, apart from a ritual social context which is interesting. I have stopped drinking. I don't/haven't taken anything else and I don't feel drawn. Maybe it's because I'm a family man and run a business and just can't make the time to pursue such hypothetical interests. Gateway?

Let's see, you've posted 1.81 times a day since you registered in 2009. And I have posted 0.25 times a day since 2006. Yep my man, you are obsessed with drugs and take them too much. You have bullshitified them. Sorry dude! That only sounds snide. I'm sorry. I read on this here board many times not to trip too often. I haven't needed much convincing from outside to know this is wise.

If I have a regret, it's minor: I can't share my experiences with people I know and in some cases love, because I know I sound crazy and it frightens them. I am pleased to be able to contain craziness better than a Japanese reactor core, so far. Containment is itself a strength-building exercise.




Your story is not complete yet and depending on your age, I'd hold off on the victory parade.  However, you might be the lucky fucker I was talking about and for that you are the envy of the drug world.  Cheers, seriously.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: PhantomPower]
    #14484780 - 05/20/11 02:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PhantomPower said:
I've certainly fallen into the traps covered in this thread in the past.  Whether it be trying to discover some larger truth, or trying to untie my psychological knots. 

What I've realized is that I pretty much either have a new insight in the days following a trip or I don't.  Where things got frustrating is that I'd expect new insights, and get bummed out and want to try again if it didn't happen.  Or I'd look at a trip from every angle looking for "the message."  And more often than not, it was just a bunch of stuff that happened.




I've been there many times.  You know, I started calling my mom on the phone during my intense peaks and talking to her.  She did an awesome of unraveling the knots and pointing out flaws in my logic and helping me recognize that a lot of it is just an intense metaphorical thinking on steroids.  She never judged me or made me feel guilty, she just listened, cared and loved me.  I'm getting a fucking tear writing this. 

Left to our own devices many of us are terrible at dealing with the experiences because we create conditions for future and continued drug use in a giant circle jerk.  Writing about it helps to unwind it and reading threads like mine helps to counteract it.  I'm still healing.  There's a part of me that wishes and hopes I can continue to trip occasionally and enjoyably for the rest of my life.  I don't know if its possible though.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
bend over


Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 3,153
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: joemolloy]
    #14484794 - 05/20/11 02:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The insights that you have now, you gained them from the psychedelic experience, no ? yet you are against them ? and you keep using them ? Seems a bit paradoxical, don't you think ?

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14484837 - 05/20/11 02:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Vsnares.Zappa said:
The insights that you have now, you gained them from the psychedelic experience, no ? yet you are against them ? and you keep using them ? Seems a bit paradoxical, don't you think ?




It took me a while to realize they were not really insights, but intense feelings brought about by powerful metaphorical/schizoid thinking.  If becoming God is an insight, I reject it.  If experiencing the oneness of it all is an insight, it doesn't have any meaning to my sober mind or my life in consensus reality.  If believing that my girlfriend from high school had sex with a rock star and I am their child is an insight, then we are delusional.

I don't think its paradoxical at all that I am drawn to these drugs.  They have brought me years of intense joy, euphoria, happiness, and excitement.  Even though I no longer glorify them, I can't deny how awesome they can make me feel.  Kinda like an ex-girlfriend that you loved intensely. 

Ever do something that you know you shouldn't do?  Don't play dumb, you understand me on a deep level, Vsnares.Zappa.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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OfflineBlight
Male


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 147
Loc: SE Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: Nunbuh_Chrubble]
    #14484885 - 05/20/11 03:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Nunbuh_Chrubble said:
Quote:

Psilosomniac said:
The reason I'm on the fence about legalization of these substances is because I believe that limiting what we do to ourselves could be considered an infringement on our rights, but I also believe that there are people who can't handle these substances.  The article in Life was all about bad trips and the potential to accelerate the onset of psychological disorders and such.  It talked about how people had trouble reintegrating themselves into regular life after having a bad experience.  This is what the government wants to protect us from.  It could be argued that they also inhibit productivity and all that, but I do think, for the most part, the government is in our best interest on this one.  If you read about all the people in the 1960s who took LSD and had horrible experiences that ruined their lives, you can see how people can take these drugs in poor environments and with poor set and setting, for example.  The people who take them without careful consideration can find themselves in terrible situations.





The US government prohibited LSD in the 60's because it was an easy way to crack down on political dissidents (who, at the time were very much into LSD and Marijuana).

The potential for a life destroying trip is actually very low. LSD induced psychosis is the EXCEPTION and when it does happen the effects usually wear off after a few days. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lsd#Psychosis)

Compare the dangers of LSD to the dangers of driving a car. Cars not only kill and disable thousands upon thousands of people each year, but they also destroy the environment. The costs of driving are considered acceptable, yet we are told to be scared of things which are in reality not really a threat at all (things like terrorism, immigrants, and DRUGS!!!).

Please don't be so naive as to think that the government is "protecting" anybody from the dangers of drugs. The dangers of psychedelics are not worse than the dangers of PRISONS where your chances of getting beaten, raped, infected with TB/meningitis/HIV skyrocket (not to mention the psychological damage).

Prohibition makes drug use MORE dangerous because people can't get pure products, they can't get good information, and they can't use them openly in places that encourage safe use and peer support.

If the gov't REGULATED the drugs... maybe I might agree with you, but that's not what's happening.




QFT


--------------------

" A peaceful place so it looks from space, a closer look reveals the human race"

"When shall I be free? When I shall cease to Be, no more I but We, in perfect harmony"

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Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
Loc: Denver, CO Flag
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: joemolloy]
    #14484897 - 05/20/11 03:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Quote:

ifoundwaldo said:
Quote:

joemolloy said:
Most people who get into a drug like heroin have had intense psychedelic stints.





Most people who get into a drug like heroin have also smoked a lot of cigarettes...
Drank a lot of booze...

This insinuation that psychedelics lead to harder drugs is retarded.
Case in point: Iboga is one of the most effective treatments for heroin addiction.

The only reason that "heroin" and "psychedelic" are in the same sentence is because they are both illegal.
Not because one precludes the other.




I'm familiar with the anti-Gateway Theory arguments and I think both sides have some good points.  However, in my own experience smoking cigarettes softened me up to weed and weed softened me up to psychedelics.  That's a personal fact because the pre-cigarette and pre-marijuana Joe Molloy couldn't conceive of ever taking LSD.  It was a gradual wearing down of my previous defenses.  I am sure I am not unique.




Why are you so sure you're not unique?
I don't think there's any evidence to support this, and it's the crux of your argument.

Cigarettes didn't soften me up for anything. They just led to smoking more cigarettes.
I smoked weed because I was curious about it, did my research, and knew that it wasn't dangerous.
And I wanted to try psychedelics long before I did any drugs (including cigarettes).


--------------------

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OfflineBlight
Male


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 147
Loc: SE Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: My dirty little psychedelic drug habit [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14484931 - 05/20/11 03:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

While I do agree with a couple points you're making, you're way isn't THE way. Personally, my experiences with psychedelics HAVE in REALITY made me a much better, more well-rounded person. They HAVE led me to spiritual epiphanies that in REALITY have bettered my life.

Also, the gateway theory is complete bullshit IMO. I started dipping tobacco at a young age, but that didn't make me want to smoke weed. I have always had a list of drugs that I wanted to try at some point in my life, and doing psychedelics certainly didn't make me add heroin to it.


--------------------

" A peaceful place so it looks from space, a closer look reveals the human race"

"When shall I be free? When I shall cease to Be, no more I but We, in perfect harmony"

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