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SprewellSleeve



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Thinking other people are bad is arrogant
#14480083 - 05/19/11 06:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Call it brains being wired differently or whatever, but don't tell me "but they have the choice to make good decisions". Let's not into the "what's good?" argument, that's a whole different topic. "Evil" people are "wired" in ways they make those choices.
I'm not saying I don't get mad at people or anything, but fact is nobody is better than another person.
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Edited by SprewellSleeve (05/19/11 06:12 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: SprewellSleeve]
#14480098 - 05/19/11 06:14 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
but fact is nobody is better than another person
And that is why you feature a fat, old hag in your sig.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: SprewellSleeve] 1
#14480117 - 05/19/11 06:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SprewellSleeve said: "Evil" people are "wired" in ways they make those choices.
Which is why we wire them to the electric chair.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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SprewellSleeve



Registered: 03/15/09
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
but fact is nobody is better than another person
And that is why you feature a fat, old hag in your sig.
I think you just proved you judge people off their looks.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: SprewellSleeve]
#14480204 - 05/19/11 06:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think he just proved you do.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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SprewellSleeve



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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: Poid]
#14480248 - 05/19/11 06:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: I think he just proved you do. 
So am I suppose to eat food that doesn't taste good over food that does at the same price?

And you can call me arrogant. As I said, I do get mad at people and stuff, but I know I'm not better than anybody.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: SprewellSleeve]
#14480270 - 05/19/11 06:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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So what was the point of this thread? Did you just want to state that you hate arrogance, even though you see a little of it in yourself?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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SprewellSleeve



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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: Poid]
#14480294 - 05/19/11 06:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: So what was the point of this thread? Did you just want to state that you hate arrogance, even though you see a little of it in yourself? 
Well it is ironic of myself, and probably many other people feel that way about themselves. If somebody goes, "he's a doucebag" on this board, in reality that's being arrogant. You were born being yourself, you couldn't earn your "niceness".
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Edited by SprewellSleeve (05/19/11 06:45 PM)
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: SprewellSleeve]
#14480338 - 05/19/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I kind of agree with what you're saying..IMO, we are ultimately responsible for nothing.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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4896744
Small Town Girl


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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: Poid]
#14480414 - 05/19/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: I kind of agree with what you're saying..IMO, we are ultimately responsible for nothing.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: Poid] 1
#14480421 - 05/19/11 07:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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we are ultimately responsible for nothing
I think that depends on whether or not we have free will, which I tend to think we do both on sound technical and entirely subjective grounds.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: Diploid]
#14480492 - 05/19/11 07:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: we are ultimately responsible for nothing
I think that depends on whether or not we have free will...
I would say that we have no ultimate responsibility for anything, regardless of whether or not we have free will. I can, say, kick a rock, but is it my fault that rocks even exist to begin with? Is it my fault that I was born, and have the ability to kick rocks? Is it my fault I have (or don't have) free will?
No, ultimately, none of that is my fault.
Quote:
Diploid said: ....which I tend to think we do both on sound technical and entirely subjective grounds.
What sound technical grounds are you speaking of? I'd be interested in knowing.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: Poid] 2
#14480722 - 05/19/11 08:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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No, ultimately, none of that is my fault.
Well, the being born and rock existing part I agree with. It's not your fault. But (assuming free will) if you kick the rock, it IS your fault because it's a consequence of your (free) volition.
What sound technical grounds are you speaking of? I'd be interested in knowing.
Oh man, this will turn into a huge rehash of the "Does Free Will Exist" threads that pop up every few months.
I'll try to wrap it into a few sentences:
I am pretty certain, based on evidence, that the universe is not deterministic.
Free will does not follow from that, I know that. But it does kill the single most common argument for No Free Will. It says essentially that the universe is a giant billiard table whose time evolution is a deterministic consequence of the table's and the air's coefficients of friction, the mass and velocity of the balls, and the elastic modulus of the rubber bumpers. But the evidence says the universe doesn't work that way and so out goes the most common line of reasoning.
That's the "sound technical" part. Now we get into a more subjective area.
The rest of the arguments for No Free Will go along the lines that we are a consequence of our experiences and so our neurons are set up to fire in a certain fated way over which we have no control.
This may be true. Or it might not. On the balance, there is no objective reason to believe one way or the other, so it's a wash on the objective front. But there IS a slight lean toward the Yes Free Will side in the fact that I subjectively experience free will.
It's subjective, yes, but it is something and to me, it's a compelling subjective experience.
So in summary:
1. The evidence overwhelmingly shows the universe to be non-deterministic. Not conclusive of anything, but it does clobber the most common line of reasoning for No Free Will.
2. There is absolutely zero evidence that our neurons are pre-ordained by past experience. There is also absolutely zero evidence that our neurons are disciplined by some ineffable something to follow our volition. So this point is a wash.
3. There IS a subjective experience of free will. That's not saying much but seeing as how point 1 and 2 leave the argument in balance for and against free will, this last point very slightly tilts the scale in the Yes Free Will direction for me.
I've studied enough wacky things about the universe (violations of Bell's Inequality, Young's Double Slit Experiment, Entanglement, Particle / Wave Duality, Quantum Tunneling) that my hunch is consciousness will eventually be found to be one more of the many extremely odd and counter-intuitive, and downright nonsensical properties of the universe that creates genuine Free Will somehow.
And like all the other beautiful and wacky things we keep discovering, it won't make any sort of intuitive sense either.
IMO
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: Diploid]
#14480983 - 05/19/11 08:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: No, ultimately, none of that is my fault.
Well, the being born and rock existing part I agree with. It's not your fault. But (assuming free will) if you kick the rock, it IS your fault because it's a consequence of your (free) volition.
I agree with this..it would be my responsibility that the rock got kicked by me. I made no claim that we are simply not responsible for anything, rather, I claimed that we are not ultimately responsible for anything--IMO, the only thing that can be ultimately responsible for anything (and everything) would be the "first cause" (if there even is such a thing).
Quote:
Diploid said: What sound technical grounds are you speaking of? I'd be interested in knowing.
Oh man, this will turn into a huge rehash of the "Does Free Will Exist" threads that pop up every few months.
I'll try to wrap it into a few sentences:
I am pretty certain, based on evidence, that the universe is not deterministic.
Free will does not follow from that, I know that. But it does kill the single most common argument for No Free Will. It says essentially that the universe is a giant billiard table whose time evolution is a deterministic consequence of the table's and the air's coefficients of friction, the mass and velocity of the balls, and the elastic modulus of the rubber bumpers. But the evidence says the universe doesn't work that way and so out goes the most common line of reasoning.
That's the "sound technical" part. Now we get into a more subjective area.
The rest of the arguments for No Free Will go along the lines that we are a consequence of our experiences and so our neurons are set up to fire in a certain fated way over which we have no control.
This may be true. Or it might not. On the balance, there is no objective reason to believe one way or the other, so it's a wash on the objective front. But there IS a slight lean toward the Yes Free Will side in the fact that I subjectively experience free will.
It's subjective, yes, but it is something and to me, it's a compelling subjective experience.
So in summary:
1. The evidence overwhelmingly shows the universe to be non-deterministic. Not conclusive of anything, but it does clobber the most common line of reasoning for No Free Will.
2. There is absolutely zero evidence that our neurons are pre-ordained by past experience. There is also absolutely zero evidence that our neurons are disciplined by some ineffable something to follow our volition. So this point is a wash.
3. There IS a subjective experience of free will. That's not saying much but seeing as how point 1 and 2 leave the argument in balance for and against free will, this last point very slightly tilts the scale in the Yes Free Will direction for me.
I've studied enough wacky things about the universe (violations of Bell's Inequality, Young's Double Slit Experiment, Entanglement, Particle / Wave Duality, Quantum Tunneling) that my hunch is consciousness will eventually be found to be one more of the many extremely odd and counter-intuitive, and downright nonsensical properties of the universe that creates genuine Free Will somehow.
And like all the other beautiful and wacky things we keep discovering, it won't make any sort of intuitive sense either.
It's these kinds of discoveries that have me hoping that maybe there is some sort of afterlife...
That was a fun read, thanks. 
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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SprewellSleeve



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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: Poid]
#14481554 - 05/19/11 10:32 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Diploid, I'd have a lot of studying to do to understand some of what you said .
Yeah, you have have the freedom to kick a rock, but what made you kick the rock? Were you wired that way? Clouds drop rain, and we kick rocks, only difference is we feel it. Are we nothing more than feelings? Afterall, people change drastically all the time. One year kicking rocks is fun, the next it's not. That could go under "am I the same person as I was kid?" question.
Maybe you answered some/all of this stuff with your post. I didn't understand all of it.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: SprewellSleeve]
#14482749 - 05/20/11 04:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SprewellSleeve said: fact is nobody is better than another person.
This is true, nobody is better than another person. A cat or dog would have been better than nobody, but for now less is more.
Still, I'll bet a fiddle of gold against your soul, 'cause I think I'm better than you.
The Devil Went Down To Georgia.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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desert father
Stranger
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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: SprewellSleeve]
#14482917 - 05/20/11 06:00 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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you, along with every living creature, is supposed to eat food that is of the utmost value to you nutritionally.
the fuel you put into your body should have nothing to do with taste or flavor, just because you've amassed wealth.
your goal as a living creature is to survive and to survive the longest, regardless of taste, color, or otherwise....
-------------------- vi veri veniversum vivus vici What she said : "I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an Early death AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"
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4896744
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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: desert father]
#14483060 - 05/20/11 07:00 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
desert father said: you, along with every living creature, is supposed to eat food that is of the utmost value to you nutritionally.
the fuel you put into your body should have nothing to do with taste or flavor, just because you've amassed wealth.
your goal as a living creature is to survive and to survive the longest, regardless of taste, color, or otherwise....
Not true, my goal is to experience as much pleasure as possible, and when i get old enough and life isn't enjoyable, i plan on killing myself.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: LunarEclipse]
#14483117 - 05/20/11 07:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
SprewellSleeve said: fact is nobody is better than another person.
This is true, nobody is better than another person. A cat or dog would have been better than nobody, but for now less is more.
Still, I'll bet a fiddle of gold against your soul, 'cause I think I'm better than you.
The Devil Went Down To Georgia.
That song is bullshit because a solid gold fiddle would have really poor resonance and would sound awful.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
SprewellSleeve said: fact is nobody is better than another person.
This is true, nobody is better than another person. A cat or dog would have been better than nobody, but for now less is more.
Still, I'll bet a fiddle of gold against your soul, 'cause I think I'm better than you.
The Devil Went Down To Georgia.
That song is bullshit because a solid gold fiddle would have really poor resonance and would sound awful.
Is that so? Well at $1500 an ounce how about if you hocked that solid gold fiddle? What then? You would have a lot of useless Federal Reserve Notes? But still, a lot. Then you could buy a Strad Fiddle you know a custom job...
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: LunarEclipse]
#14483355 - 05/20/11 08:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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A few years back, a bunch of classical music snobs were gathered in a concert hall. They heard several performances on a Stradivarius and several on a copy and were asked to pick out the Strad. Half of them got it wrong. Most of those that got it wrong STILL insisted the Strad had a better tone despite being unable to distinguish it.
Seems there are True Believers in every field.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: Poid] 2
#14483506 - 05/20/11 09:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: I kind of agree with what you're saying..IMO, we are ultimately responsible for nothing.
Why am I not surprised.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: zappaisgod]
#14484038 - 05/20/11 11:48 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Was that a question?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: Poid] 1
#14484564 - 05/20/11 01:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Not really?
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: zappaisgod]
#14485776 - 05/20/11 06:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oh?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: Poid]
#14486270 - 05/20/11 07:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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bad and good are both transitive measures that don't really matter much.
Sleep with the remembrance of death, and rise with the thought that you will not live long. -Uwais El-Qarni
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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Silversoul
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Re: Thinking other people are bad is arrogant [Re: SprewellSleeve]
#14498875 - 05/23/11 12:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's not so much that people have perfect control over everything they do, but they do have the choice to develop good habits. Aristotle recognized this a long time ago. And don't give me this "their brain is wired that way" bullshit. Ever heard of neuroplasticity?
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