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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
A SErious Question Concerning Iraqui Oil.
    #1447736 - 04/10/03 08:42 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Okay, now check out this logic that drifted into my tiny pea of a brain.

George Bush says that the Iraqi oil belongs to the Iraqui People.

Well if that is a truism, how shouldn't the oil that he owns in Texas belong to the Texans or to the people of the USA?


What a hypocrit that piece of human excretement is.


Now did that sound like a sound question of legitimate reasoning?
mj


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: A SErious Question Concerning Iraqui Oil. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1447744 - 04/10/03 08:43 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Now did that sound like a sound question of legitimate reasoning?



No.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: A SErious Question Concerning Iraqui Oil. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1447748 - 04/10/03 08:45 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

people own the texan oil. not the texan government. not the US government.

so what... the politicians are attacking iraq for oil and power.

does the average iraqi gain or lose from the ending of saddam's regime?


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Offlinearabmobster
#1

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 317
Loc: Palestine
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: A SErious Question Concerning Iraqui Oil. [Re: ]
    #1447774 - 04/10/03 08:56 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

they say they are using the oil to trade for the food
that is the biggest lie


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OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
Stranger
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Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 734
Loc: NSW, Australia.
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: A SErious Question Concerning Iraqui Oil. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1447926 - 04/10/03 09:47 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

MJ,

The contracts (so far) given to to "clean up" the Iraqi oil industry have all been given to American oil companies - which, was, of course the plan all along.

Unless the UN gets control of post-war Iraq, then all the contracts will be given to US companys. The UN would share them evenly amoung the member nations. That's why the US are so against UN involvment in post war Iraq.

Meanwhile, the war to "disarm" Iraq has turned into the war to "liberate" Iraq, as it becomes painfully obvious that they just don't have any major weapons of mass destruction.


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Anonymous

Re: A SErious Question Concerning Iraqui Oil. [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #1448052 - 04/10/03 10:40 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

to which i say... so what?

the US sticks its neck out, in return it gets oil and reconstruction contracts.

the iraqi people make out pretty good too. no more saddam.

a serious question about iraqi oil should be, "so what?"

people against this war usually build their entire argument on one undefensible assumption: the iraqi people are being victimized by all of this.

and that henceforth, america is attacking them and benefitting from their loss, which is wrong.

the real anti-war argument is not "this is bad for the iraqis..." because that's bollocks. the real anti-war argument is "this war is bad for the US". too bad most protestors think of themselves as so rightous... the idea that the only defensible anti-war argument is not founded upon altruism and concern for the iraqi people, but rather 'selfishness' and concern for america, is not something that will occur to most of them.

i'm a war protestor. i know perfectly well why i'm against this war. it's bad for america. the politicians aren't selling out the people of iraq for oil and power. if anything, they're selling out the people of the US for oil and power. they're spending billions on a war that's pissing everyone in the world off at us. we will know in time whether their gamble was a blunder or not.

one thing i can take some comfort in though is that this is good news for the people of iraq.


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Anonymous

Re: A SErious Question Concerning Iraqui Oil. [Re: ]
    #1448091 - 04/10/03 10:51 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

yeah it's great news for everyone except the thousands of iraapis blown to pieces, or lying in a hospital bed with shrapnel wounds, or the ones who watched their children get decapitated by US machine gun fire.

there's gonna be another al-qaeda born out of this war that will hit us in 20 years, but who gives a fuck, well just let our kids deal with that along with everything else thats going to shit


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Anonymous

Re: A SErious Question Concerning Iraqui Oil. [Re: ]
    #1448104 - 04/10/03 10:57 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

yeah it's great news for everyone except the thousands of iraapis blown to pieces, or lying in a hospital bed with shrapnel wounds, or the ones who watched their children get decapitated by US machine gun fire.

yes this is terrible. but it's a small toll for the greater good. for every iraqi civilian killed or injured by US bombs, a hundred others have been killed and tortured by saddam hussien.

there's gonna be another al-qaeda born out of this war that will hit us in 20 years, but who gives a fuck, well just let our kids deal with that along with everything else thats going to shit

hopefully not. our government understands this risk, which is why building iraq into a prosperous, 21st century nation is something that i'm pretty sure is part of their game plan here. i'm optimistic about what iraq will be like 5 years from now. i think many iraqis are too.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: A SErious Question Concerning Iraqui Oil. [Re: ]
    #1448200 - 04/10/03 11:27 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Good posts Mush. You are smarter than most.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
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Re: A SErious Question Concerning Iraqui Oil. [Re: ]
    #1448260 - 04/10/03 11:52 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"yes this is terrible. but it's a small toll for the greater good. for every iraqi civilian killed or injured by US bombs, a hundred others have been killed and tortured by saddam hussien."

That's incorrect. Although there are no actual figures on how many Iraqis were killed by Saddam, it wouldn't be anywhere near 100,000. Considering his greatest atrocity was the gassing of 500 Kurds, one could estimate the total figure to be more-or-less equal than the amount of civilians killed by the US. And if you add to that the amount of Iraqi soldiers killed by the US, the US would have killed more Iraqis in 20 days than Saddam has in 20 years. And the war has not yet finished.

Mind you, I am not excusing Saddam's obvious evils, but I'm am not excusing those of the US either.

"hopefully not. our government understands this risk, which..."

Hopefully not? Are you kidding me? As the rest of the world automaticly already knows, it's an almost certainty. And when it happens you'll all be scratching your heads saying, "But why?".

If you don't think this war was mostly concerned with US economic interests, you're fooling yourself. Note the "mostly", not "purely".


Edited by oO_wombat_Oo (04/10/03 11:55 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: A SErious Question Concerning Iraqui Oil. [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #1448286 - 04/11/03 12:11 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Although there are no actual figures on how many Iraqis were killed by Saddam, it wouldn't be anywhere near 100,000.

actually there are. there are various human rights records kept. depending on which one you read, the number is between a few hundred thousand and up.

Considering his greatest atrocity was the gassing of 500 Kurds, one could estimate the total figure to be more-or-less equal than the amount of civilians killed by the US.

5000.

Hopefully not? Are you kidding me? As the rest of the world automaticly already knows, it's an almost certainty. And when it happens you'll all be scratching your heads saying, "But why?".

almost certainty. i like that one. one of the reasons i'm against the war is that i think it's gonna result in more terrorism. what i was saying is that one sure way to reduce this risk, even if only slightly, is to do the right thing in iraq after the war's over and make sure that the people of iraq really are benefitting from this action.

If you don't think this war was mostly concerned with US economic interests, you're fooling yourself. Note the "mostly", not "purely".

no. what i was saying is that the war IS about US economic interests, but that as long as it is the ba'ath regime that was suffering for it, and not the iraqi people (they stand to gain from it), then who cares? hell, i'm glad the US stands to gain from this in some way. it'd be even more absurd if we didn't.

yes! this is about oil and power! so what?! the average iraqi BENEFITS. this is my case. if you want to disagree... that's going to involve making the argument that the iraqi people will NOT benefit from this action.

go ahead and make that argument if you'd like. you won't be alone. i think it's wrong though.


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OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
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Re: A SErious Question Concerning Iraqui Oil. [Re: ]
    #1448303 - 04/11/03 12:20 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

No, I get your point, I stand corrected regarding the Kurds (if that's even a correct figure, and I'm not convinced of that!)

You make a fair argument, and I agree with most of it, although I maintain the war is unjustified.

The Iraqi people will probably benifit, but only time will tell. History has proven that diposed dictators are usually replaced with another dictator.

I'm argueing against the war due to the net affect that it is going to have on global relations. Already much of Europe has begun to distrust the US. Flying in the face of the UN was a terrible mistake. Not only this, but the war has destabised a place that has been a hot-spot of conflict, hatred and destruction all through out modern human history.

The US really has grown too big for it's boots. The global affect of America's present actions are going to send shockwaves through the International community for decades to come, and who knows what horrible chain of events the pulling of this trigger may led to?

The US Government has made a serious blunder, that's what I'm saying. Sure the Iraqi people might be better off in the immediate future, but even that is yet to be seen.


Edited by oO_wombat_Oo (04/11/03 12:28 AM)


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: A SErious Question Concerning Iraqui Oil. [Re: ]
    #1448304 - 04/11/03 12:22 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


Considering his greatest atrocity was the gassing of 500 Kurds, one could estimate the total figure to be more-or-less equal than the amount of civilians killed by the US.

5000.




I think it is more like 1000.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: A SErious Question Concerning Iraqui Oil. [Re: ]
    #1448605 - 04/11/03 02:30 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

i'm optimistic about what iraq will be like 5 years from now. i think many iraqis are too.




My prediction of Iraq in 5 years...

A low wage US free trade zone, with low environmental standards and widespread poverty, choking on tons of DU dust.

Probably still ruled by a military government complacent to Washington.



--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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