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InvisibleFractalXplora
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Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed
    #14473142 - 05/18/11 12:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ok so I built this 200lt bulk pasteurizer using sandmans tek as a guide.

On my 1st run this thing got way to hot,(straw bags with probe got to around 200F (partial sterilization!?) so I realized i needed a way to regulate the temps in there, Solarity kindly hooked me up with some good links for a cheap thermostat to fit into! the barrel.The steam is generated by a earlex wallpaper steamer piped into the bottom of the barrel and attached to the metal plate horizontally which the bags of sub will sit.

Here's the rig;



Here's the duel thermostat;




it only has two wire inputs either side of it, so i imagine one must be an input and one the output? and no markings to whats what.:shrug:
I'm no electrician,:rolleyes: and need this explained in laymans terms with pictures if possible or a ruff wiring sketch:tongue2:

I know that i need it in this order,

mains power>>>>>>>thermostat>>>>>>>>wallpaper steamer but the wiring remains a mystery to em.

I've done some searching online only to more confusion, please help me get this mother sorted so i can go large!.:super:

Fractal.


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InvisibleSillicybin
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: FractalXplora]
    #14473240 - 05/18/11 01:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Your thermostat acts as a switch.  You would switch the "hot" wire, which is usually black from the mains.  The white neutral wire would go from the mains to the steamer.  If there is a ground plug on the steamer, make sure to run that wire as well.

Code:

[mains hot]---(black)------[t-stat]------[steamer]
[mains neu]---(white)--------------------[steamer]
[ ground ]---(green)--------------------[steamer]


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InvisibleFractalXplora
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: Sillicybin]
    #14473260 - 05/18/11 01:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

awsome man, that helps a lot.:thumbup: I think I get it now.So I only have the hot wire running into the thermostat, rest just link into the steamer.


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Edited by FractalXplora (05/18/11 01:16 PM)

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InvisibleSillicybin
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: Sillicybin]
    #14473281 - 05/18/11 01:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You got it.

To do things right, you should think about putting any splice connections inside a junction box that you can mount to the side of the unit.  Get one with strain reliefs so it won't let your splices pull apart.  If it's going to be outside, look for a waterproof box.

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Offlinedakgm
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: Sillicybin]
    #14473286 - 05/18/11 01:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hi as you are in the UK the live wire is red or brown, if you take the top off the plug on the steamer its the wire on the right hand side connected to the fuse.
This wire needs to go from the mains to thermostat and then a wire needs to go from the thermostat to the steamer.
The black wire is the negative wire and should connect the mains with the steamer.
The green and yellow wire is the earth wire and you should connect all the earth connections together including your pasteurizer drum.

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InvisibleSillicybin
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: dakgm]
    #14473299 - 05/18/11 01:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

THANK YOU dakgm - I completely missed the UK part! :eek:

Linking your ground wires to the body of the drum will help increase safety.  If you can, try to source your power from a GFCI outlet also.

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Offlinedakgm
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: Sillicybin]
    #14473313 - 05/18/11 01:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

No probs

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InvisibleSillicybin
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: dakgm]
    #14473325 - 05/18/11 01:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_wiring_in_the_United_Kingdom

See this for info on colo(u)r coding.  You shouldn't have to worry about phase 2 or 3 wires.

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InvisibleFractalXplora
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: Sillicybin]
    #14473497 - 05/18/11 02:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

you guys are too much, great advice and many thanks; will post my setup once i got this built and up and running.

:sun:


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Offlinedakgm
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: FractalXplora]
    #14473545 - 05/18/11 02:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

look forward to seeing the setup
But please make sure you can keep all the wireing dry
I dont want to reed about it in the news papers

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InvisibleFractalXplora
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: dakgm]
    #14473740 - 05/18/11 02:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


look forward to seeing the setup
But please make sure you can keep all the wireing dry
I dont want to reed about it in the news papers




:werd: gonna get a knowledgeable friend to rig it up for me tomorrow I fear I may fry myself. :onfire: although I will be running it in a covered outdoor space.:thumbup:


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Edited by FractalXplora (05/18/11 02:53 PM)

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InvisibleSillicybin
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: FractalXplora]
    #14477111 - 05/19/11 06:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

FractalXplora said:
will post my setup once i got this built and up and running.




Looking forward to it. :thumbup:

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InvisibleFractalXplora
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: Sillicybin]
    #14482692 - 05/20/11 03:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ok, so my friend helped me build and wire this thing, and hes done an A1 of a job!

Photo's to follow later when my girl gets back with her camera.

Thermostat was piped in form the center of the lid, and covered with a 8" piece of 15mm copper pipe, squashed and soldered at the end.

Whole t/stat and wiring unit was covered with a hobby black box to make it water safe.:thumbup:

Here's my dry run observations.

STEAMER; full 4.5lt.

time to reach steam - 8mins.

time ot reach pasteurization temps - 150F - 11mins  >>>> then 160F after 12 mins.

T/stat shuts down with my side thermometer reading 160F @ 14mins. All good.:thumbup:

----------

Now the weird bit that I'm having problems with;

temps drop to about 90F -100F in the barrel, and the t/stat doesn't kick in again till after 32mins from the start time.?


T/stat is set to its highest setting.(70C = 158F)

For some reason the T/stat is holding the heat much longer than the barrel, (which is insulated)

Could this be because the copper pipe housing around the t'stat's probe is holding a lot of hot air/heat, and not giving me a proper reading of where the barrel is at?

I take it the steam rises so the the hottest part of the barrel is always going round the top section where the probe is?

I'm thinking maybe I've over complicated this and Im contemplating (removing the t/stat and using a cheapo timer instead to switch the steamer 10 mins on and 10 mins off which will basically will hold the temps pretty even i think.

Any advice comments always welcome!

Fractal.


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Edited by FractalXplora (05/20/11 03:46 AM)

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InvisibleFractalXplora
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: FractalXplora]
    #14492716 - 05/22/11 04:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

here's the pics; thermostat not keeping the temps high enough, seems to knock off when barrel gets to 140F removing the copper helped a bit, thinking filling the copper tube with some kinda liquid to keep it cooler so the thing stays on a bit longer, failing that back to a cheap timer set to 15 on / 15 off.



I cant believe there's not people using steam on this forum, how do you control ya temps?

Fractal.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: FractalXplora]
    #14492904 - 05/22/11 07:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

FractalXplora said:

I cant believe there's not people using steam on this forum, how do you control ya temps?

Fractal.




I use a home made 55 gallon drum steam boiler.

That doesn't appear to be a thermostat.  It looks more like a high limit control, since it has a reset button.  Generally, you'll have two switches in series with each other.  The thermostat controls temperature, while the high limit will trip if the thermostat fails and it gets too hot.  Once a high limit trips, it either needs to cool nearly all the way or you have to push the reset button.

I'm not in favor of steam pasteurization of straw.  Water penetrates better.  I sterilize straw in my steamer, but that's a whole different process.
RR


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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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InvisibleFractalXplora
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14493125 - 05/22/11 08:58 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I'm not in favor of steam pasteurization of straw.  Water penetrates better.  I sterilize straw in my steamer, but that's a whole different process.
RR




Yes Roger, I'm starting to realize that after lots of testing of my unit and more research on here, IM of the understanding that steam takes a lot longer then water to penetrate the center of your sub, hence probably part sterilizing the outer straw leading to problems further down the line.

Think I may buy a heat element and turn this barrel into a water pasteurizer.

Any idea of the spec on the element I'd need to get the water up to temps?

Thanks Fractal.


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Offlineozzysmygod
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: FractalXplora]
    #14494532 - 05/22/11 03:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It is a thermostat, for UK immersion water heaters. It does have a high limit, but its at 100 C to prevent it boiling the water in the tank. The adjustable dial is the thermostat, and the high limit is preset at 100 C. The 2 switches in series RR refers to, are both contained in this one unit. It should be fine in your setup.

I do have one question though. When the thermostat turns the steamer OFF, and the temp drops below 70 C, activating the thermostat, how long does it take for the unit to start producing steam again?

Also I see the small steaming units can only run for 90-120 mins on a tank. Is this long enough to reach the core of large substrates?

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: FractalXplora]
    #14494704 - 05/22/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

FractalXplora said:

Any idea of the spec on the element I'd need to get the water up to temps?

Thanks Fractal.




Anywhere around 5 kw will get a barrel up to temp within half an hour or so. For pasteurizing, you'll be a lot better off with water. Besides, you need to soak the straw first anyway.  May as well soak overnight and then turn on the heat all in one step.  If ozzy is correct, you should be able to use that same unit to control the water heater element.
RR


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InvisibleFractalXplora
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14497528 - 05/23/11 03:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I do have one question though. When the thermostat turns the steamer OFF, and the temp drops below 70 C, activating the thermostat, how long does it take for the unit to start producing steam again?




A long time, but that was because the copper pipe protecting the thermostat was holding the temps for ages while the barrel was down to about 80-100F.

Removing the copper pipe was better it was kicking in a lot more.But strangely shutting down as the barrel got to 140F and kicking in again at about 100F, this left me scratching my head in confusion.:shrug:

Quote:


Also I see the small steaming units can only run for 90-120 mins on a tank. Is this long enough to reach the core of large substrates?




Indeed, on my 1st run after about 40 mins my center temp of bag rocketed to about 220F hence me trying to control the temps a bit.

Pretty confused now, think i may turn it into a water pasteurizer.

Quote:


Anywhere around 5 kw will get a barrel up to temp within half an hour or so. For pasteurizing, you'll be a lot better off with water. Besides, you need to soak the straw first anyway.  May as well soak overnight and then turn on the heat all in one step.  If ozzy is correct, you should be able to use that same unit to control the water heater element.
RR




sure makes sense!

Here's my local screwfix shop, any ideas which will would be the best buy?

immersersion heaters , the thermostat i used is the 7" at the top of the page.
and will I get away with only the 1 4-5Kw element?


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InvisibleOzzy
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Re: Thermostat wiring for bulk steam pasteurizer advice needed [Re: FractalXplora]
    #14498026 - 05/23/11 08:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hi Fractal!

I had the same problem at first with mine shutting down and kicking back on at odd times.

The solution to that was to lower the position of the thermostat on the barrel and make sure it is pressed absolutely tight against it. They are very touchy.

Interesting thermostat that you have there, mine do not have a probe that goes into the barrel, they just sit against it.

I'm not sure if that will solve your problem if it is still running with steam though.

I think Buckeye runs one element on his, I use two, but have been contemplating trying it with one also.

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