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Offlinetopdog82
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Birth control?
    #14470741 - 05/17/11 11:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Im not talking about birth control as in condoms, or birth pills

I think that the "one-child" rule(used in china) should be employed on a larger scale
Maybe extended to a two-child rule
In countries such as America, our population is constantly increasing. People have multiple kids post and pre-maritally. Once you factor in American consumerism, and the massive amounts of electricity, plastic, animals(meat that we eat), and unnecessary things we buy, the amount of waste or things that could be cut down otherwise is staggering

In larger countries such as america, if we want to continue living the luxurious life we do, we have to cut down on people

What do you think?


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OfflineWooden Spoon
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Re: Birth control? [Re: topdog82]
    #14470757 - 05/17/11 11:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

terence mckenna said the same thing


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Birth control? [Re: topdog82]
    #14470867 - 05/17/11 11:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think the government has no buisness determining how many children someone may have, much less punishing them for having too many.

Mind your own buisness


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OfflineWooden Spoon
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Re: Birth control? [Re: johnm214]
    #14471049 - 05/18/11 12:01 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i disagree johnm, over population is a big issue if we keep at this rate, the whole planet will be in poverty because we will have used up all its resources.

i dont think peopel should be punished for having more than one child but it should be encouraged that they only have one.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Birth control? [Re: Wooden Spoon]
    #14471110 - 05/18/11 12:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I have no problem with people encouraging someone to do pretty much anything, I don't think this should be a function of the government.  We can start by stop rewarding people for having children, and having more children.  Make child support and welfare payments be required to be spent on children and require the recipient to show reciepts or not get compensated: just like any buisness is run.


The problem is that social security and medicare et cet are set up sorta like a ponzi scheme and the beneficiaries don't neccesarily pay for what they recieve.  Those paying into the system have no guarentee of getting the money back (even ignoring the dead folks whos estates get nothing despite all th years of payments confiscated from their paychecks).

"We have seven children so we're doing our part to fund the Social Security system," Santorum said. "I want children to be living in America and contributing. America's greatest resource is our people and we're denying America what it needs, which is more Americans." -fmr Senator Rick Santorum

Hell, lets make the children pay for all the crap programs we legislate and then don't bother paying for.  Oh wait, we allready are doing that.  I guess they should have to p ay for the retirement fund and medical bills of our older population too.  Hey, why don't we just revert to feudalism altogether?


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OfflineSolomon Ash
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Re: Birth control? [Re: topdog82]
    #14472941 - 05/18/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I agree :thumbup:

I would fully support a one child policy for canadian and american families, with fines and other deterrants or tax rebates and incentives to encourage compliance.


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OfflineUnison
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Re: Birth control? [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14473050 - 05/18/11 12:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It depends on what outweighs the other. The right to have children, or your right to protect your children's home.

Right now, I agree with Johnm214. But if things get real bad, and push comes to shove, I would absolutely support this form of policy.


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Offlinethissongis
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Re: Birth control? [Re: Unison]
    #14473086 - 05/18/11 12:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If they rid the world of population control tactics yea lets do it. What kind of people have 5-8 kids? The dumb fuck retards that cant afford the kids they had before and dont care because the government will pay for them. I dont see a need for more than 2 children, maybe 3 but spread out. We are going to be controlled anyways, at least this one makes sense. Exchange fucked up pharm/illicit drug policies for control of how many kids I can have, Im down.


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OfflineSKrink
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Re: Birth control? [Re: thissongis]
    #14473555 - 05/18/11 02:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Straight-up, I feel like the overpopulation problem cannot be mended with government mandates. Let me explain.

I can see with my own eyes that the earth is dying while the human population expands so thoughtlessly. But I recently worked with a group of people who felt the exact opposite: That technology would outpace population growth (and other things to do with "The Singularity") and become so advanced that any material on earth could be easily changed into a different one (eg: copper into steel etc., like a modern day alchemy fantasy). There could be no shortage of resources in their future, because the limit of any material was, in effect, the combined weight of the entire universe. Thus they saw no need for any sort of population control, in fact they reviled the idea as another form of government intrusion on privacy. These also tend to be the people who view the earth in terms of "resources", "investments", "gains".

Another group of people I know view population control as the "Endgame" of the elites-- they say it is already happening, via "slow kill" methods of malnutrition/obesity, cancer, AIDS and the like. These methods serve to eliminate the serf classes, while preserving the elite classes, who in the future will be served by advanced techno-slaves rather than human ones. This, supposedly, will also reduce competition for scarce resources by killing off the "useless classes". The people who think this, however, are usually penniless outcasts who also recognize the problem of overpopulation, so they are tormented. I love them dearly.

Another group of people I know very well, are products of government-mandated "family planning"/population control measures. The ideal number of children per family was conveyed via financial incentives and disincentives. People went along with it, and this worked wonderfully, for a while, but within a couple of generations soon presented its own set of socio-economic problems. But when low birthrates as the ideal is deeply instilled in the population, it is a hard trend to reverse. They face their own challenges.

In China, the "one-child policy" looks good on paper. What you don't see are they unwanted children being disposed of. You don't see the baby girls being sold/abandoned because if families can only have one child, they would prefer it to be a boy (to carry on the family name, business, etc.). You don't see the families being persecuted for accidental pregnancies... Life cannot be contained by a simple human decree. Jurassic Park, anyone?

In Africa, tribes have elevated motherhood and maternity to the highest ideals. A high birth rate was good for tribes, it made them stronger. It is part of an ancient culture and heritage. Now, it is cast as a "problem", a sickness, something to be dealt with. How can a single law erase centuries of culture and genetic memory? It is disrespectful and confusing, to say the least.

But if the dire problem of overpopulation is to be addressed, drastic measures are needed. The earth is suffering our thoughtlessness. As daunting as it may be,  I feel that if more people could see this, they would naturally make their own choice NOT to have as many children. I prefer to tell myself people aren't as stupid as we all seem to be.

If more people had access to contraception, if ridiculous laws against family planning were thwarted, if mothers could make their own choices, this overpopulation trend could be reversed. If someone took the time to explain, one-on-one, what an extra child or five could mean to the earth.

Might be slower than implementing a law forcing people to obey, but the effects would last longer, wouldn't it? If people began to relate their life choices to their environment? Then, whatever new problems arose, they could take this new perspective to it as well.


--------------------
:crazy2: SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES :crazy2:
:mushroom2:HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB:mushroom2:

   

... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Birth control? [Re: Wooden Spoon]
    #14473829 - 05/18/11 03:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Wooden Spoon said:
terence mckenna said the same thing




One more reason for which the whole idea is petarded.  :goat:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Birth control? [Re: SKrink]
    #14474333 - 05/18/11 05:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I can see with my own eyes that the earth is dying




Whatever that means. In the previous 500 discussions on this subject, not one proponent could explain with any clarity.


--------------------


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OfflineSKrink
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Re: Birth control? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14475390 - 05/18/11 08:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I can see with my own eyes that the earth is dying




Whatever that means. In the previous 500 discussions on this subject, not one proponent could explain with any clarity.




Good point. I'll make an attempt at clarity.

Have you been to the beach lately? Heard of any recent oil spills or nuclear explosions? Seen the effects? Have you walked out your door and taken a big whiff? Do you wonder where your shit goes??

Maybe "the earth is dying" is too corny to be taken seriously, and I'll make a note of that-- but opponents would have us all believe that they cannot see pollution and destruction all around them. Wake up.


--------------------
:crazy2: SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES :crazy2:
:mushroom2:HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB:mushroom2:

   

... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!


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OfflineMoxyOx
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Re: Birth control? [Re: SKrink]
    #14475666 - 05/18/11 09:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The earth isn't going to die. That's just silly.

More complex lifeforms like us... well we are drastically fucked. There is no way the resources we have remaining can last us longer then a century or two.


--------------------
No one behind, no one ahead.
The path the ancients cleared has closed.
And the other path, everyone's path,
easy and wide, goes nowhere.
I am alone and find my way.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Birth control? [Re: SKrink]
    #14476428 - 05/19/11 12:46 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SKrink said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I can see with my own eyes that the earth is dying




Whatever that means. In the previous 500 discussions on this subject, not one proponent could explain with any clarity.




Good point. I'll make an attempt at clarity.

Have you been to the beach lately? Heard of any recent oil spills or nuclear explosions? Seen the effects? Have you walked out your door and taken a big whiff? Do you wonder where your shit goes??

Maybe "the earth is dying" is too corny to be taken seriously, and I'll make a note of that-- but opponents would have us all believe that they cannot see pollution and destruction all around them. Wake up.





Asking questions and giving directives is not clarity. And least you are a member of all of the other people unable to express how the earth is dying. Welcome to average. I was hoping for some substance.


--------------------


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Birth control? [Re: MoxyOx]
    #14476443 - 05/19/11 12:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

There is no way the resources we have remaining can last us longer then a century or two.




And the population is still increasing because we are fucked?

See my Thread: Increasing and Decreasing Population Both Being Bad Signs.


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Birth control? [Re: topdog82]
    #14476944 - 05/19/11 05:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
I think that the "one-child" rule(used in china) should be employed on a larger scale

What do you think?




I think you haven't really done any research on the "one-child policy" of the Chinese government.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Birth control? [Re: topdog82]
    #14476963 - 05/19/11 05:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
In larger countries such as america, if we want to continue living the luxurious life we do, we have to cut down on people

What do you think?




In the US, out birth rate doesn't even match our replacement rate.
If it wasn't for immigrants, we'd run out of people in a few generations.

Look at Japan as an example of an aging population.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Birth control? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #14476987 - 05/19/11 05:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
I think that the "one-child" rule(used in china) should be employed on a larger scale

What do you think?




I think you haven't really done any research on the "one-child policy" of the Chinese government.




Does one really need to know facts, or does one just need to speak, at any costs?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Birth control? [Re: Doc_T]
    #14476988 - 05/19/11 05:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Look at Japan as an example of an aging population.




I'd rather look at the young bimbos.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Birth control? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14476993 - 05/19/11 05:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

Doc_T said:
Look at Japan as an example of an aging population.




I'd rather look at the young bimbos.




For a young population, take a look at Mexico.
Average is age is like 16+, that's a big part of what's wrong with the country-
buncha kids running the place.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Birth control? [Re: thissongis]
    #14477010 - 05/19/11 05:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

thissongis said:
Exchange fucked up pharm/illicit drug policies for control of how many kids I can have, Im down.




Yep, because that is how governmental policies are put in place. :lol:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Birth control? [Re: MoxyOx]
    #14477020 - 05/19/11 05:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MoxyOx said:
More complex lifeforms like us... well we are drastically fucked. There is no way the resources we have remaining can last us longer then a century or two.




Prophet of the future and ultimate authority on resources and their utilization on the global scale, all rolled up into one. I definitely trust your opinion. :tongue:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSolomon Ash
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Re: Birth control? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14477316 - 05/19/11 07:48 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Do you really not understand how population growth can lead to collapse?

Saying that population growth is necessarily a sign of social or ecological health  is like saying the spread of cancer in a body is a sign of good physical health.

Excessive growth in the short term can lead to extinction in the long term, in some cases.

Population growth and population decline can both be bad signs. You have to look at the other factors and the context.

Its just like cells in a body. Cells dying off can be a bad sign, but so can excessive cell growth.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Birth control? [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14477320 - 05/19/11 07:50 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Excessive growth is excessive. Healthy growth is healthy.
Humans have always expanded, it's what we do. It's our niche. :heart:


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Birth control? [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14477326 - 05/19/11 07:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Solomon Ash said:
Do you really not understand how population growth can lead to collapse?





Did he say this? Why are you incredulous as something you just made up?


Quote:

Excessive growth in the short term can lead to extinction in the long term, in some cases.




Does this not just beg the question?  Calling it 'excessive' is to allready presume its problematic- not helpful.


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OfflineSolomon Ash
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Re: Birth control? [Re: johnm214]
    #14477333 - 05/19/11 07:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"And the population is still increasing because we are fucked?

See my Thread: Increasing and Decreasing Population Both Being Bad Signs. "

If you read the thread he was referring to, he seems to be suggesting that it is illogical to say that both population growth and population decline can be bad signs for humanity.

But as I pointed out, both can be bad depending on the context.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Birth control? [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14477605 - 05/19/11 09:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Solomon Ash said:
Do you really not understand how population growth can lead to collapse?

Saying that population growth is necessarily a sign of social or ecological health  is like saying the spread of cancer in a body is a sign of good physical health.

Excessive growth in the short term can lead to extinction in the long term, in some cases.

Population growth and population decline can both be bad signs. You have to look at the other factors and the context.

Its just like cells in a body. Cells dying off can be a bad sign, but so can excessive cell growth.




Sure, only that you measure excessive cell growth and then prove it. I suggest you do the same regarding population growth.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineSolomon Ash
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Re: Birth control? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14477703 - 05/19/11 09:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"Sure, only that you measure excessive cell growth and then prove it. I suggest you do the same regarding population growth."

I am sorry I can not understand what this means. Can you rephrase it please?


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Birth control? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14479983 - 05/19/11 05:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I can see with my own eyes that the earth is dying




Whatever that means. In the previous 500 discussions on this subject, not one proponent could explain with any clarity.



I live in California, where weather as far as I can remember, has never dipped below 65, especially in spring
Last winter, it snowed in some of the upper mountains
the world is changing for the worst, and people are the cause

Im not saying we shouldn't live, I'm saying that if people are gonna live the way we do, in certain countries, a "two-child" rule should be emplyoed

Expanding our population isn't our niche, it's something that all species try to do, and we have succeded in. Im not gonna sit here type up an explination on the purpose of the universe, but I am going to say that the rate at which we are expanding and that other species are decreasing, are abnormal


Edited by topdog82 (05/19/11 05:58 PM)


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Birth control? [Re: topdog82]
    #14480002 - 05/19/11 05:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
I live in California, where weather as far as I can remember, has never dipped below 65, especially in spring




I grew up in San Diego, it would get into the 40's every winter, sometimes we'd have frost.

Don't mistake your impressions of the world with facts.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Birth control? [Re: Doc_T]
    #14480019 - 05/19/11 06:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

my bad, I meant at this time of the year, I expect it to be hot or at least warm
now when I look at the weather it'll read around 60 for the whole week


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Birth control? [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14480052 - 05/19/11 06:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I can see with my own eyes that the earth is dying




Whatever that means. In the previous 500 discussions on this subject, not one proponent could explain with any clarity.



I live in California, where weather as far as I can remember, has never dipped below 65, especially in spring
Last winter, it snowed in some of the upper mountains
the world is changing for the worst, and people are the cause

Im not saying we shouldn't live, I'm saying that if people are gonna live the way we do, in certain countries, a "two-child" rule should be emplyoed

Expanding our population isn't our niche, it's something that all species try to do, and we have succeded in. Im not gonna sit here type up an explination on the purpose of the universe, but I am going to say that the rate at which we are expanding and that other species are decreasing, are abnormal





How is this anything but confirmation bias?  What was you methodology of study?  Could it have been falsified?  Was it established  before the fact?  These kind of antecdotes typically aren't helpful as they simply are spurious research: there's no way the hypothesis could have been falsified, hence its meaningless.  You've not established what novel low temperatures has to say about the subject anyways, so it seems to have several problems.

What right does anyone have to punish me for conceiving more than two children or a woman for having more than two children?

Quote:

Solomon Ash said:
"Sure, only that you measure excessive cell growth and then prove it. I suggest you do the same regarding population growth."

I am sorry I can not understand what this means. Can you rephrase it please?




She's suggesting you use some methodology that is capable of establishing that the population growth is excessive just as the researcher establishes the cell growth is excessive or not via a methodology able to determine such.

Your post seemed to beg the question.


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OfflineSolomon Ash
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Registered: 05/16/11
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Re: Birth control? [Re: johnm214]
    #14481218 - 05/19/11 09:35 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Some Words on human population growth:

"Population Growth:

Foremost among the root causes of the global crisis is the problem of human population growth. The exploding number of human beings is directly related to the exhaustion of natural resources such as oil and fresh water and the erosion of habitats and ecosystems. More human beings means more demand placed on limited supplies and a larger load on the Earth’s basic carrying capacity. David Korten argues that the rapid upsurge in human numbers has already exceeded the Earth’s ability to sustain, pointing out that  “somewhere around 1980, we humans crossed an evolutionary threshold: the burden we place on the life support systems of the planet passed beyond the sustainable limit. The figures are sobering. Just since 1950, in barely more than fifty years, the global human population more than doubled from 2.6 billion persons in 1950 to 6.4 billion in 2005” (Korten 59).

Jeffrey Sachs predicts that the population boom will continue, and “the global population will rise… to 9.2 billion in 2050” (22-23). As a result of this population growth, combined with the increasing material demands placed on the earth by each individual person, Sachs predicts that by 2050 humanity’s overall impact on the planet Earth will be six times what it is today. This is essentially an apocalyptic scenario, because “the human impact on the environment today is already unsustainable” and therefore “a six fold impact would be a devastating… environmental catastrophe” (30).

The truth is that the world is simply not large enough to sustain present and predicted human populations. When the numbers of a species exceed the carrying capacity of their supporting ecosystem, this is called a state of overshoot. According to “the calculations of the Living Planet Index, we humans have been in ecological overshoot since roughly 1970” (Ibid 61). As a result of rapid population growth combined with rising consumption patterns, “by 2002, humans were consuming food, materials and energy at a rate of about 1.2 Earth-equivalent planets” (Ibid 59). This already dire situation is poised to become much worse, as “the United Nations projects that the world population will continue to grow from the current 6.4 billion to 8.9 billion in 2050” (Ibid 67).

Normally a species in overshoot is subjected to population adjustment in the form of die-offs which result from ecological feedback mechanisms. For example, if wolves become too numerous and consume too many deer, they will run out of food and many will starve, restoring the balance. However, humans have so far been able to avoid a massive die-back to sustainable numbers, largely because of technological innovations such as advances in agriculture. Nevertheless, the consequences of population overshoot are inescapable,  and “the difference between human consumption and the regenerative capacity of Earth is made up by depleting the natural capital of the planet- both non-renewable capital, like minerals and fossil fuels, and renewable capital like forests, fisheries, soil, water and climatic systems. The consequence is to extract a temporary and unsustainable subsidy from Earth to support current consumption at the expense of our children and their children for generations to come” (Ibid).

The dangers inherent in unrestrained population growth have been known since 1798 when the “economist and demographer Thomas Malthus  argued that human population growth would tend to outrun the growth of food production…because population growth proceeds exponentially while food production increases only arithmetically” (Sachs 312). As a result “a population will tend to consume all available food and never leave a surplus unless population growth itself is halted” (312). Such a halting can be voluntary and intentional, as in the case of widespread birth control use and child limitation policies, but more often it is in the form of an uncontrolled ecological feedback resulting in mass deaths from poverty and hunger as geometric population growth outstrips the arithmetical (and limited) growth of food.

Malthusian logic suggests that the unrestrained explosion of human populations within the confines of a finite and already overtaxed world must lead to a massive population rebalancing before much longer. Even with abundant fossil fuels and the high-yield agriculture they make possible the Earth would struggle to provide for the nearly 9 billion people we expect to inhabit this planet by 2050. Yet as we have seen, those enormous hydrocarbon inputs are now jeopardized by peak oil and the decline of existing reserves and rates of supply, even as the natural abundance of forests and oceans is depleted by biodiversity loss. As such, humans are in a double bind, and the likely result is that “Earth is poised to (teach us ) a traumatic lesson in the…systems principle that infinite growth cannot be sustained in a finite system and the cybernetic principle that failure to take timely action to restore system equilibrium results in overshoot and collapse” (Ibid 61). This collapse could take the form of widespread famine, a virulent pandemic or a world-war, each of which could dramatically reduce the human population."

For your consideration


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