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InvisibleAsante
Omnicyclion prophet
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,649
Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: 5HTSynaptrip]
    #14714551 - 07/04/11 07:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Off topic, but I'm quite scared for my daughter and her future.  We consume energy in such ridiculous amounts




Are you scared to the point of using LED and CFL bulbs, having good insulatiuon in your home, reusing what you can etc and teaching her how to be energy efficient?


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: Asante]
    #14714558 - 07/04/11 07:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:

Off topic, but I'm quite scared for my daughter and her future.  We consume energy in such ridiculous amounts




Are you scared to the point of using LED and CFL bulbs, having good insulatiuon in your home, reusing what you can etc and teaching her how to be energy efficient?



What exactly are the net environmental costs/benefits of LED/CFL lights, insulation and re(down)cycling?

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InvisibleAsante
Omnicyclion prophet
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,649
Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: koraks]
    #14714942 - 07/04/11 10:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I made a calculation on a long-life CFL once and it turned out it during its service life saved a barrel of oil worth of energy. And it saves YOU that energy on your electricity bill. Thats pretty awesome.

Quote:

net environmental costs/benefits of LED/CFL lights, insulation and re(down)cycling?




Theres more mercury in that barrel of oil than in the CFL, for one.

And I can't imagine that CFL taking 200,000 kcal of energy to put together, not even counting whats being salvaged in recycling.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: Asante]
    #14714972 - 07/04/11 10:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
I made a calculation on a long-life CFL once



How? I mean, I interact professionally with several people who have worked in mass-production industries (process optimization, six-sigma stuff), and I've never met one who had a full overview of the production process, including the processes that produced in the procured inputs. So how did you assemble the required information? And how do you deal with the long-term environmental impact of materials that are included in e.g. LED lights? Stuff like gallium and arsenic doesn't sound like the most fun materials to play with in large volumes either, apart from the environmental impact of mining them. And what about the costs of R&D, in terms of energy use? Ever wondered what the environmental footprint of an R&D facility is? The hundreds/thousands of people that work there? How far must we go to ascertain the environmental impact of a product anyway? Before you know it, you're calculating the footprint of the entire economy.

I'm always skeptical of claims that one product is considerably better in terms of environmental impact than its predecessor. Regarding lighting, I'd rather see we develop energy sources that are more sustainable than that we have to invest in the development and production of relatively complex devices. Just look at a CFL vs. a light bulb, where the latter consists of less than a handful of simple components and mundane materials, while the former consists of far more components. Sure, they're small ones, but I've never known the electronics industry as a particularly environmentally friendly one.

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InvisibleAsante
Omnicyclion prophet
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,649
Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: koraks]
    #14727769 - 07/06/11 07:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

How?




I didnt look at the bulb itself, but at the energy saved throughout its service life for the end consumer.


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Omnicyclion.org
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InvisibleI R Crankey
bang bang choo choo
Male

Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 2,005
Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: Asante]
    #14732271 - 07/07/11 05:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

nvm.

Edited by I R Crankey (07/07/11 05:02 PM)

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InvisibleWise Toad
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Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: I R Crankey]
    #14732286 - 07/07/11 05:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

abandon hope all ye who enter here

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OfflineToTheSummit
peregrinus
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/22/99
Posts: 9,127
Loc: Las Vegas
Last seen: 2 days, 15 hours
Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: Asante]
    #14733174 - 07/07/11 08:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
I didnt look at the bulb itself, but at the energy saved throughout its service life for the end consumer.



Was that based on the expected life of the bulb according to the manufacturers?  Because I've found them to be highly unpredictable and I'm pretty sure CFLs don't last anywhere near as long as the manufacturers claim they do.  In fact, I've had a pretty high failure rate on the CFLs I've tried.  And I just don't like the light they produce compared to traditional incandescent.

I believe LEDs would be a lot more energy efficient but I really hate they light they produce even more then CFLs.


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