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InvisibleWise Toad
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: koraks]
    #14519035 - 05/27/11 01:36 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Who cares? The remaining life will adapt to whatever environment remains.




This. The whole concept of 'malfunctions' is based on an implicit assumption that the world after we've gone is supposed to work in a particular way. Which isn't the case; life will simply adapt.



This is where we disagree

Who can adapt to shitty movies, games, and other art forms without destroying themselves or already having severe mental problems

The death of the future will be our world cultures lack of taste :toxic:

we will poison the minds of the future

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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: Wise Toad]
    #14519120 - 05/27/11 02:13 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Wise Toad said:
Who can adapt to shitty movies, games, and other art forms without destroying themselves or already having severe mental problems




The majority of the Western population does this, and I don't think they're destroying themselves or having severe mental problems.

I reckon that the Elders in some stone age village would have said the same thing you just wrote about the first youths brandishing bronze knives. The Elders disappeared, and bronze won over stone.

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Offline5HTSynaptrip
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: LightShedder]
    #14519974 - 05/27/11 09:30 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LightShedder said:
Don't be all "it is what it is".

Think.

Not too hard, just a little.

The entire atmosphere is filled with the radiation from 500+ nuclear power plants melting down, eventually megatons of poisonous gas, which no living creature would adapt to, will be packing our atmosphere as well. Massive catastrophic earthquakes from disturbances in the faultline after our oil drilling plants burst and malfunction......
And u quoted me saying "malfunction" is based on some irrelevant assumption, no I said technological malfunction, meaning the technology ceases to work properly and has a strong influence on the condition of the planet. I wouldn't mind letting the earth do whatever it's gonna do naturally knowing that our technology isn't going to cause a significant change in it's functioning.
I don't see any current life on this planet withstanding such a catastrophe. The thread is not titled "do you care if all life will be wiped out after humans are gone?"

I, personally do, and just for fun am interested in plans to prevent such a catastrophe from occurring.

If you dint give a shit about life remaining on this planet then don't bother telling me about it in this thread because it's irrelevant. Thanks.





This is nothing compared to the natural process of super-volcanoes erupting (luckily it takes quite some time for this to happen) and throwing unimaginable amounts of ash and SO2 into the atmosphere.  It's also probable that the Earth will be hit by an asteroid at some point in time.  It's theorized one of these events caused the K-T extinction which lead to us becoming what we are. 

As said in the posts before mine, life will find a way to adapt as long as the particular variables essential for life to continue (any life not just chordates).  It would be a fortunate event for every other species but ours to be honest.  We're causing the most recent mass extinction.  Most likely, in our absence, life on this planet would continue to thrive.


--------------------


Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.


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InvisibleWise Toad
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: koraks]
    #14528850 - 05/28/11 11:46 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Wise Toad said:
Who can adapt to shitty movies, games, and other art forms without destroying themselves or already having severe mental problems




The majority of the Western population does this, and I don't think they're destroying themselves or having severe mental problems.

I reckon that the Elders in some stone age village would have said the same thing you just wrote about the first youths brandishing bronze knives. The Elders disappeared, and bronze won over stone.




Perhaps it doesn't cause mental debilitation but is rather correlated with it

We are not talking about technological advancement such as that, moreso reality TV and twilight

its the prophesy idiocracy proclaims, We are fucked :drgonz:

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: mushiepussy]
    #14534199 - 05/30/11 02:18 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mushiepussy said:
"you're content with us causing the destruction of every creature "

Please tell me how we could destroy every creature.

All the environmental damage we have done, and all we will do, pales in comparison to the 100's of asteroid impacts and
super volcano eruptions that have occurred throughout earth's history.
The only thing needed to recover from these effects is time.

As long as liquid water exists on earth, life will persist.




Not true....  Man has the ability to destroy EVERYTHING on the planet today via nuclear weaponry.....  This is not news.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14534443 - 05/30/11 04:48 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

News to me, how do you reach that conclusion?  Seems to be nothing more than a common myth

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: johnm214]
    #14535692 - 05/30/11 12:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

There are critics of the very idea of nuclear strategy for waging nuclear war who have suggested that a nuclear war between two nuclear powers would result in mutual annihilation. From this point of view, the significance of nuclear weapons is purely to deter war because any nuclear war would immediately escalate out of mutual distrust and fear, resulting in mutually assured destruction. This threat of national, if not global, destruction has been a strong motivation for anti-nuclear weapons activism.

Critics from the peace movement and within the military establishment have questioned the usefulness of such weapons in the current military climate. The use of (or threat of use of) such weapons would generally be contrary to the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, according to an advisory opinion issued by the International Court of Justice in 1996.




Kenneth Waltz, "The Spread of Nuclear Weapons: More May Better," Adelphi Papers, no. 171 (London: International Institute for Strategic Studies, 1981).

"Islam, Terror and the Second Nuclear Age," New York Times Magazine (29 October 2006).


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14535815 - 05/30/11 12:53 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

That is not the same as destroying "everything".  From a political point of view, all humans dying is 'everything', but from a scientific view that is far from everything.

It has not ever been shown that man is capable of destroying everything on the planet.

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OfflineThe Inner Eye
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: DieCommie]
    #14535889 - 05/30/11 01:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
That is not the same as destroying "everything".  From a political point of view, all humans dying is 'everything', but from a scientific view that is far from everything.

It has not ever been shown that man is capable of destroying everything on the planet.




Yea, youre right.  I mis-stated my point.  But I personally think they could do a good job at laying waste to just about everything.


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Offlinesnoot
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14535906 - 05/30/11 01:07 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I was picking up a can the other day in the woods, and I had noticed a lil critter had made a home in it, and for a minute I felt like an asshole picking up litter. :seeya:


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I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
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InvisibleWise Toad
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: snoot]
    #14536323 - 05/30/11 02:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, there is no way the US would get rid of all the nukes unless it had something even more devastating, still waiting on that satellite weapon

Destruction of the world depends on a great many things. If enough megatons were used in the right way it would be possible to divide the world into pieces which would destroy its orbit/get rid of all the water and other nature based life support systems since there would be no atmosphere to hold it

Even then the surface could still be covered in dormant microbes but I doubt there would be anything active on the surface, who knows:tongue:

Nuclear winter is possible. Cockroaches and the microbes at the bottom of the sea(especially the thermophilic lifeforms that live off of volcano vents) could remain, depends on how thorough the earth is glazed. The ultra powered vacuum that is the mushroom cloud would shoot many things off into space, even now there are things up there from Hiroshima/Nagasaki and sometimes they even reenter the atmosphere. If something could survive that it would be hurtled off into space at high speeds to meet a new planet, life coming out of death(its like "The Fountain" fro those of you who have seen that

If it could survive it would adapt, can you imagine how life would adapt and evolve on an irradiated Earth

Unless the life adapted to clean up the waste it would be designed to live with or off nuclear radiation though the latter would be disastrous as they would quickly run out of waste to feed off of but that's why adaptation takes time, so that big mistakes like that are not made. Biodiversity also prevents that, nature doesnt put all its eggs in one basket which is exactly why some life is likely to survive most disasters and return

All this makes me think about what life truly is, considering it has infinite forms and has been designed to survive through adaptation. Did it all start with some microscopic/chemical accident? Perhaps there was something before Archae Bacteria that slowly evolved into DNA or something even more basic. Some miraculous microscopic accident made us all, if there is infinity to exist then it had to happen. Was there ever an origin or has this been going on forever in a continuous state and if so what made the universe

Its possible that logic made the universe, the existence of nonexistence is paradoxical therefore we exist

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: The Inner Eye]
    #14536628 - 05/30/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Inner Eye said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
That is not the same as destroying "everything".  From a political point of view, all humans dying is 'everything', but from a scientific view that is far from everything.

It has not ever been shown that man is capable of destroying everything on the planet.




Yea, youre right.  I mis-stated my point.  But I personally think they could do a good job at laying waste to just about everything.





Why?  The papers I've looked at, again, seem to suggest this is a myth: even if we're only talking about human survival. 


Quote:

The Inner Eye said:
There are critics of the very idea of nuclear strategy for waging nuclear war who have suggested that a nuclear war between two nuclear powers would result in mutual annihilation. From this point of view, the significance of nuclear weapons is purely to deter war because any nuclear war would immediately escalate out of mutual distrust and fear, resulting in mutually assured destruction. This threat of national, if not global, destruction has been a strong motivation for anti-nuclear weapons activism.

Critics from the peace movement and within the military establishment have questioned the usefulness of such weapons in the current military climate. The use of (or threat of use of) such weapons would generally be contrary to the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, according to an advisory opinion issued by the International Court of Justice in 1996.




Kenneth Waltz, "The Spread of Nuclear Weapons: More May Better," Adelphi Papers, no. 171 (London: International Institute for Strategic Studies, 1981).

"Islam, Terror and the Second Nuclear Age," New York Times Magazine (29 October 2006).





I don't see how the use or threat of them is a violation of law.  The law only requires that civilian casualties be avoided were possible and that the likely effects be proportionate to the military signifigance.  Take Japan in WWII: the history of the Pacifc campaign showed the Japanese to be total retards who'd refuse to surrender.  The civilian population was being almost entirely entered into service as militia.  The deaths would have been huge, despite no useful military objection being served by the resisting.  A nuclear bomb dropped after warning to vacate several cities of military importance seemed a proportionate response to me.  Its often ridiculed, but the conventional bombings in WWII seemed far more suspect, and often far more deadly and destructive


As far as I can tell, there's good reason to question whether nuclear war would even have any liklihood of killing all or almost all human life, let alone 'everything'.  From my understanding, this kinda hype resulted after the hydrogen bombs were developed and people compared hiroshima and nagasaki with the comparitively small yields of the H bomb technology available.  A thousand fold increase in explosive power doesn't result in a thousand fold increase in deaths, destruction, or even applied destrcutive power.  Even ignoring the density decreases outside cities, the blast wave falls off exponentially with distance, so a linear comparison to prior cases is silly.  Its for this very reason, and better delivery systems, that modern weapons are much smaller yield than the maximum easily available.

I don't know what the state of research on this is, but the following paper seems interesting and persuasive on a number of points: 

The global health effects of nuclear war. Brian Martin, Current Affairs Bulletin, Vol. 59, No. 7, December 1982, pp. 14-26.
http://www.uow.edu.au/~bmartin/pubs/82cab/index.html

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OfflineDarwin23
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: johnm214]
    #14663716 - 06/24/11 03:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

In the vastness of space, Earth is essentially nothing. Life is even more meaningless. What are the consequences of the disappearance of life? Nobody will be around to observe this change. Even if there are other beings who appreciate beauty and have emotions like we do, what are the odds that they'll ever reach this planet? The change would be so insignificant.


--------------------

Take a look at my journal

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: Darwin23]
    #14665628 - 06/24/11 01:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Plastic house!

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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: LightShedder]
    #14679652 - 06/27/11 12:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

@ Lightshedder - I like your sig :smile:

I won't delve into technical jargon or spin semantics (too much.) I see the state of the planet as being unmanageable. Humanity has made itself a nest too complex - something critical will eventually fail: Agreed.

I dare say that a whole, systemic solution is unmanageable. Therefore, community preparedness ( lost on the majority of Americans) has it's place here. The communal bomb shelter is not outdated, they're becoming envouge once again, with a new spin of course - serious longevity.

I beg to argue that if you see a train coming down the tracks, prepare to move yourself - or not.

So, what do we do about impending danger? Do for yourself what you can, or seek out like-minded people for a more comprehensive analysis and follow-up. All the jokers who run around self-assured that everything is OK, all will continue as is, they may be correct for a time, maybe a long time even, but one day they will be wrong.


--------------------
 
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Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.

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Offlinedzza
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14682504 - 06/27/11 08:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Old thread, but I'll throw in my 2 cents-

For anyone interested in this topic, I read a book a few years ago entitled The World Without Us, or something like that.
The book examined what would happen to the world if humans disappeared over night.  This approach has pros and cons.  On the one hand, it could be more devastating because there is no one to lessen certain hazards i.e safely store nuclear waste etc.  However it ignores the idea that humans, in their last moments, might take a good chunk of the environment with them to oblivion.  I believe the posited scenario was something like a bird-flu pandemic. 

Anyway, with regard to nuclear power plants, it is likely that eventually environmental factors would corrode any emergency valves and allow for nuclear waste contamination.  While this is terrible for any living being right now, one might also consider that in the aftermath of the (now second?) worst nuclear accident in history, chernobyl resembles a wildlife refuge.  Humans moved out and animals/wildlife adapted and moved in over time. 

One interesting consideration that the book investigated was microplastics, like the plastic shavings/biproducts that find their way into the ocean or other water sources.  These plastics are then ingested and destroy a fundamental part of the oceans biosphere.

The book's conclusion, as well as others in this thread and mine too, is that the world will get by just fine without us.  There's not much sense in worrying about what's going to happen when people are gone.

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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: dzza]
    #14683003 - 06/27/11 10:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dzza said:
Old thread, but I'll throw in my 2 cents-

For anyone interested in this topic, I read a book a few years ago entitled The World Without Us, or something like that.
The book examined what would happen to the world if humans disappeared over night.  This approach has pros and cons.  On the one hand, it could be more devastating because there is no one to lessen certain hazards i.e safely store nuclear waste etc.  However it ignores the idea that humans, in their last moments, might take a good chunk of the environment with them to oblivion.  I believe the posited scenario was something like a bird-flu pandemic. 

Anyway, with regard to nuclear power plants, it is likely that eventually environmental factors would corrode any emergency valves and allow for nuclear waste contamination.  While this is terrible for any living being right now, one might also consider that in the aftermath of the (now second?) worst nuclear accident in history, chernobyl resembles a wildlife refuge.  Humans moved out and animals/wildlife adapted and moved in over time. 

One interesting consideration that the book investigated was microplastics, like the plastic shavings/biproducts that find their way into the ocean or other water sources.  These plastics are then ingested and destroy a fundamental part of the oceans biosphere.

The book's conclusion, as well as others in this thread and mine too, is that the world will get by just fine without us.  There's not much sense in worrying about what's going to happen when people are gone.




I was given The World Without Us as a gift. I read it and enjoyed it immensely. I still have it and will re-read it soon enough. The book gifted me a fresh outlook on our plight. I do not fear for our longevity. It will all be O.K. no matter the outcome.


--------------------
 
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Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: LightShedder]
    #14690319 - 06/29/11 06:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If my unscientific source is to be believed, its most likely that power plants, factories and cities etc will be decommissioned in orderly fashion before our post-human successors will take to the forests and plains to live on without advanced technology. They'll probably either rocket the nuclear waste, which is the only pollution that really matters, into space or bury it in subduction zones to redissolve into the lava.

32011 AD will be very ecofriendly.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: Asante]
    #14690599 - 06/29/11 08:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
32011 AD will be very ecofriendly.



D'you have a weather report for mid-June of that year as well? I'm flipping through the travel catalog and trying to decide on something.

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Offline5HTSynaptrip
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Re: The catastrophe that mankind will leave behind, and ideas to counter effects [Re: koraks]
    #14691000 - 06/29/11 10:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It would be very hard to recover from global event that even destroys say 90-95% of our species.  Depending on the severity of damage to say cities, technology, education, etc... The amount of time it would take for humans to reproduce and form new civilizations would be fairly long.  Also, we've used up easily accessible oil already so having huge wells that would produce appreciable amounts of oil with limited means of obtaining it probably wouldn't happen.  You couldn't manufacture most of the stuff needed for the most modern alternative energy sources. 

Off topic, but I'm quite scared for my daughter and her future.  We consume energy in such ridiculous amounts, and look how much of the world has nowhere near the quality of life developed countries do.  That scares me the most... I spend over $100 a week just to commute to college so that amounts to half my fucking cost for the home we live in every month. 

I'm more afraid of something like fossil fuels becoming so inaccessible that they'd basically be unobtainable.  It would be chaotic as fuck, and at that point people will be the biggest threat to themselves in densely populated areas.  :Awesketch:


--------------------


Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.


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