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InvisiblelasdR
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CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima
    #14468133 - 05/17/11 02:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well, this is highly relevant to discuss in such forums. If I lived in North America, especially around the west coast I would stay miles away from picking :mushroom2:. When the stuff even is picked up in moderate levels here on Europa, you should be very well warned. If you dont think it is an issue, at least research it and if you still want to go pickin - help yourselves ... It is highly obvious that the news about what is going on there is being covered up and hushed. at least 3 reactors is now confirmed to be in full meltdown and more are on the brink. Its hard to know exactly because they dont want us to know...

here is a few words from Busby from today, he is highly respected and has spoken out about this since day one pretty much.

"Busby is the director of Green Audit, an environmental consultancy agency,[1] and scientific advisor to the Low Level Radiation Campaign (LLRC) which he set up in 1995.[2] Busby is a visiting professor at the University of Ulster.[3] Busby was the National Speaker on Science and Technology for the Green Party of England and Wales".


2. The reason it is not being reported on much could be that recently (a month ago?) the EPA raised the "safe" levels of exposure by an average of 1000% per isotope. its pretty hilarious actually. Oh yeah, this is not only in the US, in the EU countries as well.

"EPA to raise "safe" limits

The EPA is at it again, they now want to change the "safe" limits of exposure to humans. The EPA wants to raise "Protective Action Guides" (PAG's) to levels vastly higher than those at which they are currently set allowing for more radioactive contamination of the environment and the general public.

"According to PEER (Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, the new standards would drastically raise the levels of radiation allowed in food, water, air, and the general environment. PEER, a national organization of local, state, and federal employees who had access to internal EPA emails, claims that the new standards will result in a “nearly 1000-fold increase for exposure to strontium-90, a 3000 to 100,000-fold hike for exposure to iodine-131; and an almost 25,000 rise for exposure to radioactive nickel-63″ in drinking water. This information, as well as the emails themselves were published by Collapsenet on March 24.

In addition to raising the level of permissible radiation in the environment, PEER suggests that the standards of cleanup after a radioactive emergency will actually be reduced. As a result, radioactive cleanup thresholds will be vastly lowered and, by default, permissible levels of radiation will be vastly increased in this manner as well."

Remember, these are the same people who said the air was safe to breath on 9/11."
- look it up.


Will you eat wild mushrooms in the foreseeable future?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (05/17/11 02:11 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll


Edited by lasdR (05/17/11 04:00 PM)

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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima warning [Re: lasdR]
    #14468285 - 05/17/11 02:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Def will still be eating psilocybes.
A gram or so dry couldn't hurt


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OfflineOboy
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Re: 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima warning [Re: mylfgur]
    #14468354 - 05/17/11 03:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This has happend to us in sweden alredy. Still some woods that is recommended not to pick any mushrooms/berries in.

It depends a little, i doubt this would make me not. But time will tell ey?  :docbrown:

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Offlinenonlocal
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Re: 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima warning [Re: mylfgur]
    #14468357 - 05/17/11 03:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I grew up in Poland and when I was 7, we took a direct hit from the Chernobyl fallout (without being warned by the Communist regime!).  None of my family, friends or friends of friends were directly affected by radiation sickness.

While I appreciate your concern, and will continue to keep an eye out on the matter, I highly doubt that my conifer forests on the west coast of Canada will be affected in any significant way.  I'm not going to live my life full of fear.  And let's face it, if the mushrooms on the coast are fucked, then so are the fish, the soil etc...A more salient discussion might be what happens when you keep your laptop or cellphone close to your nutsack

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2008/09/radio-waves-fro.html


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“Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.” -Gandhi

"The revolution will not be televised"

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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima warning [Re: mylfgur]
    #14468384 - 05/17/11 03:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I live on the west coast of the united states and I am not frightened to eat mushrooms. The fukushima power plant is roughly 7,150 miles from where I live, if radiation could travel that far I would figure it would dissipate greatly by the time it reached our shores. If I did infant live in Japan I would not eat wild mushrooms. As far as being scared to eat mushrooms here I am not, also I do not let fear control my life or dictate my actions. Thanks for the news article though. :grin:


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May you be filled with loving kindness.
May you be well.
May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.



AMU Q&A

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Offlinenonlocal
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Re: 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima warning [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14468420 - 05/17/11 03:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Right on Maynard...i feel the same way brotha.

Additionally, it has been proven that red meat is linked to colo-rectal cancers but that doesn't stop the hordes from lining up to get their Big Macs.  Oh, and they say alcohol might damage your liver...should I go on?  Life is a dangerous game, you always die at the end :death: :laugh2:


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“Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.” -Gandhi

"The revolution will not be televised"

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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima warning [Re: nonlocal]
    #14468607 - 05/17/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well it does concern me being a big fan of our planet earth . :thumbdown: you can tell its really serious when they stop talking about it on the news. id like to see what the levels are now compared to what was being found in the milk when the radiation was first detected here on the west coast. our government here isnt testing anything as far as i know. i only know of tests from washington and california.


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InvisibleShockValue
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Registered: 11/18/08
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Re: 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima warning [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #14468748 - 05/17/11 04:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm one for treating our environment with respect, but this article/video is just +1 to fear mongering.


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  • When we built temples to view the stars, we knew about all 2000 of them.

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Offlinedip
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Re: 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima warning [Re: ShockValue]
    #14468798 - 05/17/11 04:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think the OP has gone far beyond 'fear mongering' with this news.  Are not some mushrooms species able to "bio-accumulate' certain toxins?  If this is so, than a quick rundown of various other hazards associated with modern life is irrelevant.  Since we are a community of mushroom enthusiasts, it only makes sense to be aware of this.  Each of us can set our own concern level, sure, but this is not the same as the other hazards being mentioned.

dip

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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima warning [Re: dip]
    #14468842 - 05/17/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I guess we should all carry around geiger counters with us when go mushroom hunting then huh. I bet that news organization is funded largely in part by geiger counter manufacturing companies.  :fork:
Just kidding :grin:.


--------------------
May you be filled with loving kindness.
May you be well.
May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.



AMU Q&A

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OfflineOreganic
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Re: 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima warning [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14468894 - 05/17/11 05:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Eh, I'd easily risk dieing from picking radioactive mushrooms. If if couldn't pick mushrooms I'd probably be just as good dead. :shrug:


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__________________________________
In case you didn't know, The Shroomery holds a Picture of The Month poll each month and anyone is welcome to nominate pictures and vote! Keep it active folks!

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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: lasdR]
    #14469151 - 05/17/11 06:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

As somebody who works with radiation, it's not a big deal here (yet) in North America.

The best indicator or how bad things are the various measurements of radiation levels in and around the plants. We don't need to trust what the plant owners or government are saying, there are a bunch of open sourced radiation monitors in the region so you can see what they're reading. Those value are consistent with the sort of readings being published from the plant.

At the worst location outside at the plant, they're measuring 396 microsieverts of radiation per hour at the south side of the office building. Values at the gates are at 15 and 43 microsieverts per hour.

For a sense of scale, the average radiation received by all of us is about 2400 microsieverts per year. The levels being reported are such that you don't want to be there without protective gear, and you don't want to be there for any extended period of time.

Given that I'm something like 8000 miles away, any radiation leaks have to make it an awful long way across an ocean to cause much more than a barely measurable effect.

Remember, radiation detectors are *really* sensitive. They pick up tiny amounts of radioactivity. If this stuff starts making it across the ocean, you can believe that the people that work with radiation are going to know about it quickly. Radiation workers understand the risks very well, and the same ones don't want anything to do with increased risks.

For those who don't know, the primary risk of radiation exposure (assuming these sorts of low levels) is cancer. The levels I'm hearing about that might make it to North America so far put the risk much below the risk I'm taking by smoking this cigar (*puff puff*).

If the numbers start climbing, I'll make a post and get the word out to people. I'll also be getting the word out to other public mushroom groups (like the Colorado Mycological Society). And I'm sure I won't be the only one doing that.

Happy mushrooming!

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InvisibleShockValue
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: ToxicMan]
    #14469195 - 05/17/11 06:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

@ToxicMan

My buddy works for the navy and is the guy deals with the little radiation monitors that the the poor bastards have to wear that scrub the nuclear subs when they come into port.  He checks their numbers after every shift and determines weather they can go back the next day, etc etc.

He says pretty much the same thing you do.


--------------------
  • When we built temples to view the stars, we knew about all 2000 of them.

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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: ToxicMan]
    #14469197 - 05/17/11 06:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ToxicMan said:

If the numbers start climbing, I'll make a post and get the word out to people. I'll also be getting the word out to other public mushroom groups (like the Colorado Mycological Society). And I'm sure I won't be the only one doing that.

Happy mushrooming!




Thank you good sir for looking out for the rest of us. :grin:


--------------------
May you be filled with loving kindness.
May you be well.
May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.



AMU Q&A

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OfflineNewearthman
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14469482 - 05/17/11 07:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well we are already screwed then so why hold back? I will go out with a bang or two at least haha. Thanks for the heads up!


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14469487 - 05/17/11 07:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

maynardjameskeenan said:
Quote:

ToxicMan said:

If the numbers start climbing, I'll make a post and get the word out to people. I'll also be getting the word out to other public mushroom groups (like the Colorado Mycological Society). And I'm sure I won't be the only one doing that.

Happy mushrooming!




Thank you good sir for looking out for the rest of us. :grin:





yes i agree, thank you Toxic man. your knowledge goes far beyond just the mushroom info you bless us with. i am glad we have someone here that can gives us a straight answer about this stuff as i give wild mushrooms to my son and my parents as well as my self.

cigars will give you cancer , i quit smoking tobbacco and nicotine 10 months ago . best decision ive made in years!! my girlfriend quit at the same time. we read a book called alan carrs easy way to quit smoking. :thumbup:


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OfflineHarryL
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14469496 - 05/17/11 07:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This is total bull shit

Seriously.... There is no freakn way, that mushrooms in the US or Europe will be able to pick up significant radioactive isotopes to cause ANY one harm...

Please... Do not buy into this anti-nuclear propaganda crap... Seriously folks...

This is what I do for a living... Radioactive materials found in the northern hemisphere from japan,'the I-131 is short lived. And the source has been stopped... The low levels of Cs is totally insignificant.  I would not be eating mushrooms from within 50'miles of the Japan damage plant... But to think there is a problem with US or European mushrooms is nonsense!

So... Please... Think critically... Who is saying what...'and why. A lot of people will be using the tragedy for their own gain. 20,000 plus died in the tidal wave and earth quake... How many have died from the radiation? None.

ToxicMan is correct... We can detect such low levels... That have no risk of harm. It's all about amount... We get a litlle radiation every day. There are variations in that amount based on where you live, what you do and where you work. People are worrying about nothing... For example... I calculated to dose from the milk in our state at it's highest level... If you drank 2 liters of that milk, every day for 40 years... You dose would be the same as 3 chest x-rays or about a month of background radiation.


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Mushroom hunting:  One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.

Edited by HarryL (05/17/11 10:13 PM)

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InvisibleBobzimmer
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: ToxicMan]
    #14469947 - 05/17/11 08:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ToxicMan said:
As somebody who works with radiation, it's not a big deal here (yet) in North America.

The best indicator or how bad things are the various measurements of radiation levels in and around the plants. We don't need to trust what the plant owners or government are saying, there are a bunch of open sourced radiation monitors in the region so you can see what they're reading. Those value are consistent with the sort of readings being published from the plant.

At the worst location outside at the plant, they're measuring 396 microsieverts of radiation per hour at the south side of the office building. Values at the gates are at 15 and 43 microsieverts per hour.

For a sense of scale, the average radiation received by all of us is about 2400 microsieverts per year. The levels being reported are such that you don't want to be there without protective gear, and you don't want to be there for any extended period of time.

Given that I'm something like 8000 miles away, any radiation leaks have to make it an awful long way across an ocean to cause much more than a barely measurable effect.

Remember, radiation detectors are *really* sensitive. They pick up tiny amounts of radioactivity. If this stuff starts making it across the ocean, you can believe that the people that work with radiation are going to know about it quickly. Radiation workers understand the risks very well, and the same ones don't want anything to do with increased risks.

For those who don't know, the primary risk of radiation exposure (assuming these sorts of low levels) is cancer. The levels I'm hearing about that might make it to North America so far put the risk much below the risk I'm taking by smoking this cigar (*puff puff*).

If the numbers start climbing, I'll make a post and get the word out to people. I'll also be getting the word out to other public mushroom groups (like the Colorado Mycological Society). And I'm sure I won't be the only one doing that.

Happy mushrooming!



Thanks!:cheers:


--------------------
Mr. Mushrooms said:
I will confess something that should be quite obvious, CC.  I love mushrooms, i.e. fungi.  I really do.  I am talking about a strong feeling, i.e. emotion, for them.  I think they are beautiful.  I even dream of them.

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Offlinenonlocal
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: Bobzimmer]
    #14470220 - 05/17/11 09:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:whathesaid:  :thanx:


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“Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.” -Gandhi

"The revolution will not be televised"

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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #14470503 - 05/17/11 10:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Folks, let's be sure to not turn this into some sort of thing against lasdR. At this point it looks like he was trying to do a good thing, but was probably misinformed. I checked the references in his post, and couldn't find any actual numbers of how much radiation was involved there. That sets off alarms for me. Of course, I had also been following the story since it happened (I have family in Japan).



Quote:

cigars will give you cancer , i quit smoking tobbacco and nicotine 10 months ago . best decision ive made in years!! my girlfriend quit at the same time. we read a book called alan carrs easy way to quit smoking.




I only do 1 or 2 a year. Even my doctor doesn't bug me about it, and I tell her when she asks. At those levels the risk is pretty minimal.

Happy mushrooming!

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Offlinenonlocal
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: ToxicMan]
    #14471543 - 05/18/11 02:35 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

^^

Of course...I believe the OP is only looking out for our best interests. 

But the point remains, if the radiation situation reaches a point where we have to worry about it on the other side of the globe, then mushrooms (even though they tend to accumulate metals, radiation etc.. more than other plants,organisms) will be the least of our concerns.

Any post like this, despite its best intentions, elicits more fear than prevents harm...and that is something we could do less with.


--------------------


“Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.” -Gandhi

"The revolution will not be televised"

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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,697
Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: nonlocal]
    #14471609 - 05/18/11 03:09 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

While it's good to remain vigilant, there seems no health risk associated with the Fukushima accident for anyone in the Americas or Europe. I've discussed this issue extensively in the Japan Earthquake thread in the pub; those of you who have followed the discussion there, know my viewpoint on this. Personally, I wouldn't be bothered in the least to pick some tasty mushrooms in Europe and the US, and I most certainly will when the opportunity presents itself.

A while ago, I have made a post referring to a rather random and small collection of publications of the accumulation of radioisotopes in mushrooms. The gist of the post is that there are two important factors that determine the extent to which mushrooms accumulate such isotopes: the species, and the location. Species seem to differ very much in terms of tendencies towards bio-accumulation. As to location: if there are no or very little radioisotopes around, then they won't be present in mushroom tissue in significant amounts either. A lot of the research that is available on this subject is based on mushroom collections in Europe after the Chernobyl accident. Note that the Chernobyl fallout dropped right over Europe, while most of the Fukushima cloud was blown over the ocean where it diluted considerably before reaching North America.

I agree wholeheartedly with ToxicMan's earlier post in this thread. The fact that we can measure heightened levels of radioactivity does not automatically mean that those levels are actually dangerous. When picking mushrooms, it's much more relevant to note if they aren't growing in a spot where they are likely to pick up significant amounts of regular heavy metals (lead, mercury) due to industrial activities nearby, than to worry about any radiation.

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Offlinefoxtym
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: nonlocal]
    #14472354 - 05/18/11 09:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

nonlocal said:
^^

Any post like this, despite its best intentions, elicits more fear than prevents harm...and that is something we could do less with.




I liked the post. The good thing about the discussion forum is the perspective it delivers. With the large amount of complex science and politics involved in the nuclear issue and the relatively small amount of truth reported by the MSM, the more internet discussion the better. I for one am extremely interested in knowing whether/when the air I breathe has become carcinogenically equivalent to cigar smoke or the wild mushrooms I eat like the worst junk food. BTW for ones who live by the principles of individual liberty and property rights like me, getting unhealthy stuff dumped on our property without our consent is a clear rights violation, let alone forcing us to ingest even a small amount of the toxin. If I want toxic stuff on my property or in my body, I am the ONLY one that is supposed to decide such things. So on one hand I am glad to hear that levels of radiation are relatively low, but OTOH most of those relative perspectives could be put in better context - and ALL of them IMO should be viewed in context of clear violations of pollution laws and property/individual rights. And regarding the “fear mongering” accusations, I think we are all stable-enough thinking adults here who aren’t going to panic at the prospect of bad environmental news. I have listened to the whole range of opinions – all the way from John Stossel to Helen Caldicott – and I’m not panicking.

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: foxtym]
    #14472367 - 05/18/11 10:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

foxtym said:
If I want toxic stuff on my property or in my body, I am the ONLY one that is supposed to decide such things.



Sorry mate, we have just one world and we share it with 6 billion people. That means that our actions will influence each other's lives. You may not like it, but the fact is inescapable.

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Offlinejacobensis
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Re: 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima warning [Re: nonlocal]
    #14472393 - 05/18/11 10:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

nonlocal said:
I grew up in Poland and when I was 7, we took a direct hit from the Chernobyl fallout (without being warned by the Communist regime!).  None of my family, friends or friends of friends were directly affected by radiation sickness.

While I appreciate your concern, and will continue to keep an eye out on the matter, I highly doubt that my conifer forests on the west coast of Canada will be affected in any significant way.  I'm not going to live my life full of fear.  And let's face it, if the mushrooms on the coast are fucked, then so are the fish, the soil etc...A more salient discussion might be what happens when you keep your laptop or cellphone close to your nutsack

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2008/09/radio-waves-fro.html



so, YOU ARE POLISH! HA! HA! HA!


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There are 2 types of people, mycophobes and mycophiles R.Wasson

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Offlinefoxtym
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: koraks]
    #14473405 - 05/18/11 01:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

foxtym said:
If I want toxic stuff on my property or in my body, I am the ONLY one that is supposed to decide such things.



Sorry mate, we have just one world and we share it with 6 billion people. That means that our actions will influence each other's lives. You may not like it, but the fact is inescapable.




Sorry mate, I miss your point. Surely you aren’t opposing the idea of individual liberty and property rights. I mean being forced to breathe other people’s virus-laden exhalations in public may be an inescapable fact of life (that falls well below the point of a rights violation), but being forced to breathe and eat other people’s radioactive particles is certainly not.

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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: foxtym]
    #14473452 - 05/18/11 01:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

foxtym said:
Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

foxtym said:
If I want toxic stuff on my property or in my body, I am the ONLY one that is supposed to decide such things.



Sorry mate, we have just one world and we share it with 6 billion people. That means that our actions will influence each other's lives. You may not like it, but the fact is inescapable.




Sorry mate, I miss your point. Surely you aren’t opposing the idea of individual liberty and property rights. I mean being forced to breathe other people’s virus-laden exhalations in public may be an inescapable fact of life (that falls well below the point of a rights violation), but being forced to breathe and eat other people’s radioactive particles is certainly not.



Unless particles of Iodine-131 were raining down from the clouds and being incorporated into the plants, grass, and animals on earth. Nobody's forcing you to eat irradiated food but when all food has levels of contaminants in it from the haphazard actions of others, your liberty to eat contaminant-free food is nonexistent.


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Offlinefoxtym
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: mylfgur]
    #14474751 - 05/18/11 06:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:
Unless particles of Iodine-131 were raining down from the clouds and being incorporated into the plants, grass, and animals on earth. Nobody's forcing you to eat irradiated food but when all food has levels of contaminants in it from the haphazard actions of others, your liberty to eat contaminant-free food is nonexistent.




Sorry, I don’t get your point either. Are you disagreeing with the concept of individual liberty, or just making an exception in the case of nuclear fallout? You make it sound as if rights violations eliminate rights. While it is true that mass rights violations reduce individual liberty, it certainly doesn’t refute the concept. Or maybe you are somehow less outraged at mass violations than with smaller violations. ??

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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: foxtym]
    #14475460 - 05/18/11 08:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i wish you guys wouldnt call it fear mongering. this isnt the war on terror. this is a realistic problem and its not getting any better. infact its a hundred times worse now that building 4 is pretty much ready to collapse! you may not hear about it on the regular news because its fuckin bad!! listen to some university/college radio that is not full of shit and you may change your mind.



my girlfriend is pregnant so radiation and unborn childeren actually worries me. this shit doesnt mix well. just like how your worried about fall out on your property, how angry would a family be when 10 years down the road their 10 year old has cancer from this mess!!


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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #14475711 - 05/18/11 09:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

OK, calm down. Let's review the numbers again, and put them into a more useful, easy to understand form.

At the highest levels being measured, they're seeing 396 microsieverts per hour. If we imagine living at that spot, 24 hours a day, for the next year (and assume that things stay the same), with *no* shielding at all, you would receive a dose of about 3.5 sieverts. With minimal medical attention, that would cause acute radiation sickness (hematopoietic syndrome), and you would have about a 50% chance of dying, probably from an infection your weakened immune system couldn't fight off. Of course, nobody in their right mind is going to stay at that spot for anywhere that sort of length of time.

If you move to the other spots being reported on in the immediate area, the doses go down to roughly 1/10 and 1/30 of the above numbers. The risk would be correspondingly less, and after one year you wouldn't have come down with acute radiation sickness at either spot.

Let's look at your risk of cancer. For all of us, the basic risk of cancer is 20% (yes, 20% of us will die of it). The best way to evaluate the risk is to determine the additional risk you get from an exposure.

Now, let's suppose you go to that hottest spot above, and hang around for 4 days, with no shielding. The dose of radiation you will have received will increase your chance of getting cancer (lethal or otherwise) by about 1 in 500 (that's 0.2%). If 2,000 of us were to do this all at once, on average about 4 of us would get cancer (which might not be a lethal one).

Do you drive or ride in a car? Your risks of problems from that are certainly far higher than your risks from this radiation.

Currently, your risk of being hit by lightning are higher than the risk of getting cancer from the radiation in Fukushima (I will assume you live in the US).

To realistically assess risk, you need to compare the new risk with risks you take all the time in your everyday life. In this case, the risks are very low.

Happy mushrooming!

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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: ToxicMan]
    #14475756 - 05/18/11 09:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ToxicMan said:
OK, calm down. Let's review the numbers again, and put them into a more useful, easy to understand form.

At the highest levels being measured, they're seeing 396 microsieverts per hour. If we imagine living at that spot, 24 hours a day, for the next year (and assume that things stay the same), with *no* shielding at all, you would receive a dose of about 3.5 sieverts. With minimal medical attention, that would cause acute radiation sickness (hematopoietic syndrome), and you would have about a 50% chance of dying, probably from an infection your weakened immune system couldn't fight off. Of course, nobody in their right mind is going to stay at that spot for anywhere that sort of length of time.

If you move to the other spots being reported on in the immediate area, the doses go down to roughly 1/10 and 1/30 of the above numbers. The risk would be correspondingly less, and after one year you wouldn't have come down with acute radiation sickness at either spot.

Let's look at your risk of cancer. For all of us, the basic risk of cancer is 20% (yes, 20% of us will die of it). The best way to evaluate the risk is to determine the additional risk you get from an exposure.

Now, let's suppose you go to that hottest spot above, and hang around for 4 days, with no shielding. The dose of radiation you will have received will increase your chance of getting cancer (lethal or otherwise) by about 1 in 500 (that's 0.2%). If 2,000 of us were to do this all at once, on average about 4 of us would get cancer (which might not be a lethal one).

Do you drive or ride in a car? Your risks of problems from that are certainly far higher than your risks from this radiation.

Currently, your risk of being hit by lightning are higher than the risk of getting cancer from the radiation in Fukushima (I will assume you live in the US).

To realistically assess risk, you need to compare the new risk with risks you take all the time in your everyday life. In this case, the risks are very low.

Happy mushrooming!




:billymaythumbup:


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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: ToxicMan]
    #14475983 - 05/18/11 10:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ToxicMan said:
Now, let's suppose you go to that hottest spot above, and hang around for 4 days, with no shielding. The dose of radiation you will have received will increase your chance of getting cancer (lethal or otherwise) by about 1 in 500 (that's 0.2%). If 2,000 of us were to do this all at once, on average about 4 of us would get cancer (which might not be a lethal one).





Thanks for the reassurance, but…

I’m always suspicious of minimal cancer-rate predictions, which often only sound plausible because the etiology of cancer is so inexact. I mean when it comes to associating cancer with a cause, death statistics are often skewed because it can’t be proven. You could have a 100% increase in cancer fatalities for a whole country for 50 years and still see nuclear stats that show a zero increase – solely because it can’t be proven. Am I wrong?

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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: foxtym]
    #14477048 - 05/19/11 06:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I’m always suspicious of minimal cancer-rate predictions, which often only sound plausible because the etiology of cancer is so inexact. I mean when it comes to associating cancer with a cause, death statistics are often skewed because it can’t be proven. You could have a 100% increase in cancer fatalities for a whole country for 50 years and still see nuclear stats that show a zero increase – solely because it can’t be proven. Am I wrong?




Since that's not how the data was collected and the models constructed, yes. If an attempt had been made to do things as you described, they would have failed, as you predict.

The cancer statistics were created by following various populations for long periods following exposure, and they carefully also monitored control populations. It is rather involved, but there are a bunch of test populations available for various reasons. While no particular cancer can be attributed specifically to radiation exposure, it is entirely reasonable to attribute a change in cancer rates in a population to causes such as this.

Cancer rate predictions due to radiation exposure are based on a linear non-threshold model. That is to say that historic evidence shows that there is a linear relationship between the level of exposure and later incidence of cancer. Is there any debate on this? Of course there is - these models are, if anything, too willing to predict new cancers, especially for low level exposures to radiation. If there is an error here, it is that they might be overstating the risk. As someone who works with radiation, that's exactly how I want such a model to work.

A century or so ago, these data and models didn't exist. X-rays and other radiation sources were used fairly indiscriminately. After all, you can't sense radiation at all. You can't feel it or even tell that it's there without special instruments. When people started getting sick, especially with much higher rates of cancers, investigations were started. They're still studying this stuff and refining the models. But people that work with radiation now have life spans and cancer rates that are basically the same as everybody else. That tells me that the measures being taken are working, and that the models are pretty good.


Incidentally, I applaud your skepticism. Too few people are willing to think these things through, much less raise their voice and say that they have doubts. Keep doing that - the world will always need it.

Happy mushrooming!

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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: ToxicMan]
    #14477269 - 05/19/11 07:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ToxicMan said:
Cancer rate predictions due to radiation exposure are based on a linear non-threshold model. That is to say that historic evidence shows that there is a linear relationship between the level of exposure and later incidence of cancer. Is there any debate on this? Of course there is - these models are, if anything, too willing to predict new cancers, especially for low level exposures to radiation. If there is an error here, it is that they might be overstating the risk. As someone who works with radiation, that's exactly how I want such a model to work.





In this case, I hope I am wrong. Yet I’m still skeptical. Let’s take Chernobyl. Why is there such a huge discrepancy of opinion on the fatalities; ranging from 31 to nearly a million? I mean if there is such a standard linear model as you claim, why does wikipedia report this?

“Estimates of the number of deaths potentially resulting from the (Chernobyl) accident vary enormously: Thirty one deaths are directly attributed to the accident, all among the reactor staff and emergency workers.[9] A UNSCEAR report places the total confirmed deaths from radiation at 64 as of 2008. The World Health Organization (WHO) suggests it could reach 4,000.[10] A 2006 report predicted 30,000 to 60,000 cancer deaths as a result of Chernobyl fallout.[11] A Greenpeace report puts this figure at 200,000 or more.[12] A Russian publication, Chernobyl, concludes that 985,000 excess deaths occurred between 1986 and 2004 as a result of radioactive contamination.[13]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: foxtym]
    #14477472 - 05/19/11 08:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I will have to take some time and read those reports and let you know.

Looking at a few basic figures, about 5,000,000 people were in the area that was contaminated and can be considered exposed. A figure between 4,000 and 60,000 doesn't seem unreasonable, given that we don't know an awful lot, such as exactly how much actual exposure there was for each person in that large area. Exposure would have to include consumption of food or water with contamination, and radiation is much worse when the source is inside you.

Figures of 200,000 or 985,000 do not seem credible. That higher figure is reasonably close to the number of people we would normally expect to die of cancer in a population that large. I think we would have heard a lot more if the cancer rate doubled among that many people, and I'm not hearing that. Remember, only excess cancer rates count for this sort of thing, and that high figure is around what we would expect with no exposure at all. I actually know people who grew up in those areas, and I don't hear stories anything like 40% of the population dying of cancer, and that's what would have to be happening for that 985,000 figure to be true.

Again, I will try to find and read those reports, but expect that to take some time. These reports tend to be long and dry and not very exciting to read.

Happy mushrooming!

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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: foxtym]
    #14477565 - 05/19/11 09:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

foxtym said:
Quote:

ToxicMan said:
Cancer rate predictions due to radiation exposure are based on a linear non-threshold model. That is to say that historic evidence shows that there is a linear relationship between the level of exposure and later incidence of cancer. Is there any debate on this? Of course there is - these models are, if anything, too willing to predict new cancers, especially for low level exposures to radiation. If there is an error here, it is that they might be overstating the risk. As someone who works with radiation, that's exactly how I want such a model to work.





In this case, I hope I am wrong. Yet I’m still skeptical. Let’s take Chernobyl. Why is there such a huge discrepancy of opinion on the fatalities; ranging from 31 to nearly a million? I mean if there is such a standard linear model as you claim, why does wikipedia report this?

“Estimates of the number of deaths potentially resulting from the (Chernobyl) accident vary enormously: Thirty one deaths are directly attributed to the accident, all among the reactor staff and emergency workers.[9] A UNSCEAR report places the total confirmed deaths from radiation at 64 as of 2008. The World Health Organization (WHO) suggests it could reach 4,000.[10] A 2006 report predicted 30,000 to 60,000 cancer deaths as a result of Chernobyl fallout.[11] A Greenpeace report puts this figure at 200,000 or more.[12] A Russian publication, Chernobyl, concludes that 985,000 excess deaths occurred between 1986 and 2004 as a result of radioactive contamination.[13]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster



The WHO and IAEA intentionally underreported the rates of thyroid disorders in Belarus and in the eastern EU. You should be wary of the official estimates, they don't want to publish anything that will demonize nuclear power because we need it. I read the Greenpeace report, it's pretty interesting. Also, the WHO claims that no one died from radiation and that the death toll of Chernobyl is less than 50 individuals, all from the fire. They're pretty much bullshitting.

I wasn't arguing against individual liberty earlier. Obviously you can choose what you want to do but if the situation at fukushima is actually grave, it's affecting more than just fukushima--it could be affecting a large majority of life on earth (plants/animals through water) in consistent, minimal manners that you really can't avoid.


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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: ToxicMan]
    #14478040 - 05/19/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ToxicMan said:
I will have to take some time and read those reports and let you know.

Looking at a few basic figures, about 5,000,000 people were in the area that was contaminated and can be considered exposed. A figure between 4,000 and 60,000 doesn't seem unreasonable, given that we don't know an awful lot, such as exactly how much actual exposure there was for each person in that large area. Exposure would have to include consumption of food or water with contamination, and radiation is much worse when the source is inside you.

Figures of 200,000 or 985,000 do not seem credible. That higher figure is reasonably close to the number of people we would normally expect to die of cancer in a population that large. I think we would have heard a lot more if the cancer rate doubled among that many people, and I'm not hearing that. Remember, only excess cancer rates count for this sort of thing, and that high figure is around what we would expect with no exposure at all. I actually know people who grew up in those areas, and I don't hear stories anything like 40% of the population dying of cancer, and that's what would have to be happening for that 985,000 figure to be true.

Again, I will try to find and read those reports, but expect that to take some time. These reports tend to be long and dry and not very exciting to read.

Happy mushrooming!




We appreciate you providing expert information and looking into it more. But at this point, I think I can make this point. With such a wide range of scientific opinion about the harm that resulted from a major accident that happened 25 years ago, it’s hard to trust any one prediction for the multiple (and ongoing) accidents at Fukushima; of which many key details are lacking, and present yet another unknown: ocean contamination. (Sorry if we are getting away from the topic of mushroom contamination.)

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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: mylfgur]
    #14478052 - 05/19/11 11:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:
The WHO and IAEA intentionally underreported the rates of thyroid disorders in Belarus and in the eastern EU. You should be wary of the official estimates, they don't want to publish anything that will demonize nuclear power because we need it. I read the Greenpeace report, it's pretty interesting. Also, the WHO claims that no one died from radiation and that the death toll of Chernobyl is less than 50 individuals, all from the fire. They're pretty much bullshitting.

I wasn't arguing against individual liberty earlier. Obviously you can choose what you want to do but if the situation at fukushima is actually grave, it's affecting more than just fukushima--it could be affecting a large majority of life on earth (plants/animals through water) in consistent, minimal manners that you really can't avoid.




Yes, I think we have the same concerns here.

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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: foxtym]
    #14478104 - 05/19/11 11:35 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

foxtym said:
Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

foxtym said:
If I want toxic stuff on my property or in my body, I am the ONLY one that is supposed to decide such things.



Sorry mate, we have just one world and we share it with 6 billion people. That means that our actions will influence each other's lives. You may not like it, but the fact is inescapable.




Sorry mate, I miss your point. Surely you aren’t opposing the idea of individual liberty and property rights. I mean being forced to breathe other people’s virus-laden exhalations in public may be an inescapable fact of life (that falls well below the point of a rights violation), but being forced to breathe and eat other people’s radioactive particles is certainly not.




You see, the same people that hold high the values of personal liberty and freedom and property are usually the most outspoken capitalists as well and when you say "eh, you are making a lot of PERSONAL money with this PERSONAL industrial plant of yours on your PERSONAL PROPERTY, how about you install some filters, so you stop polluting the air WE ALL breath?" they are the ones that scream "OMG! Regulations! Get the guns out, the commies are coming!!"
If there is one thing I am more allergic to than radioactive mushrooms it is economic and social Libertarianism.


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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: foxtym]
    #14478665 - 05/19/11 01:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

foxtym said:
Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

foxtym said:
If I want toxic stuff on my property or in my body, I am the ONLY one that is supposed to decide such things.



Sorry mate, we have just one world and we share it with 6 billion people. That means that our actions will influence each other's lives. You may not like it, but the fact is inescapable.




Sorry mate, I miss your point. Surely you aren’t opposing the idea of individual liberty and property rights.



I'm not opposing the idea, I'm simply trying to tell that it's a fairytale. Your liberty ends where it touches someone else's. In today's world, that fact is inescapable. I advocate freedom of choice, but that doesn't come with the guarantee that your can enjoy unlimited choice. Some decisions are made for you, and while I agree that it is bad practice to expose others to health risks, the fact is that we all do that in various ways in our daily lives. Assuming that there's a way to escape that, for example by enforcing individual liberty and property rights, is a means of fooling yourself that will ultimately lead to conflict and outright war.

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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: German Kahuna]
    #14479885 - 05/19/11 05:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

German Kahuna said:
You see, the same people that hold high the values of personal liberty and freedom and property are usually the most outspoken capitalists as well and when you say "eh, you are making a lot of PERSONAL money with this PERSONAL industrial plant of yours on your PERSONAL PROPERTY, how about you install some filters, so you stop polluting the air WE ALL breath?" they are the ones that scream "OMG! Regulations! Get the guns out, the commies are coming!!"
If there is one thing I am more allergic to than radioactive mushrooms it is economic and social Libertarianism.




(mods: Assuming it’s ok for me to reply to the strong political opinions of this poster and the next, even though we are clearly off the topic of contaminated mushrooms.)

GK,

Although it sounds like you are against free market capitalism, nuclear energy is far from a capitalist industry. Given its large amount of public funding and regulation, it’s more like a government entity than a business. So here’s your model of highly regulated capitalism. Obvious question: “So how’s that workin out for ya?”

see: “fallacy of gov regulation”.

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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: koraks]
    #14479899 - 05/19/11 05:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
I'm not opposing the idea, I'm simply trying to tell that it's a fairytale. Your liberty ends where it touches someone else's. In today's world, that fact is inescapable. I advocate freedom of choice, but that doesn't come with the guarantee that your can enjoy unlimited choice. Some decisions are made for you, and while I agree that it is bad practice to expose others to health risks, the fact is that we all do that in various ways in our daily lives. Assuming that there's a way to escape that, for example by enforcing individual liberty and property rights, is a means of fooling yourself that will ultimately lead to conflict and outright war.




Seriously… if you say an idea is a fairy tale, you are opposing it.

Of course it’s true that my rights end where your nose begins. But far from refuting the concepts of personal liberty, complete ownership of your body is what establishes them. The principles of individual liberty not only include your rights as an individual but also the rights of others. Of course no one has total freedom, but that fact certainly doesn’t eliminate rights. It looks like you think the existence of rights violations imply that we have no rights. I don’t understand that thinking. Or maybe you are falling for the Nirvana fallacy; criticizing it because it’s not perfect. I’m not sure. But I AM sure that enforcing individual liberty and property rights will NOT lead to war. Most wars are caused by the exact opposite: governments that don’t respect those principles.

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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: foxtym]
    #14483158 - 05/20/11 07:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

OK, I have now read the Greenpeace report. I haven't read the Russian publication, which is a book, and I don't intend to go out and buy it.

I have also researched a bit and found significant critique for both publications.

Both rely heavily on non peer reviewed articles. Neither has gone through peer review. Unfortunately, that means that, although interesting reading, neither can be too seriously.

The Greenpeace report brings up some good points, and does highlight some issues with morbidity and mortality figures and reporting, but then goes on to include some wild estimates from various sources. To put that into other words, the various figures of 200,000 and up for deaths are not supported by anything that would survive peer review.

The best part of the Greenpeace report is that it does a good job of highlighting uncertainties, particularly in things like what actual dosages are for affected populations. In fact, we do not know how much radiation was released at Chernobyl, we only have some reasonable estimates.


I'm not going to attempt to present a detailed critique of the publications. If anybody wants that, there are some out there by people who professionally do dosimetry. If you really want to know about this sort of topic in detail, those are the exact people you want to listen to. Their job, and their specific area of expertise, is working with exactly this sort of information.

Happy mushrooming!

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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: foxtym]
    #14483330 - 05/20/11 08:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Foxtym, I think we are not as far apart in terms of our ideas as you might think. I do recognize that I view matters from the opposite direction though.

Quote:

foxtym said:
Seriously… if you say an idea is a fairy tale, you are opposing it.



No, I just like to dream. Ideals are nice. They hold the promise of a better world which we might strive to create.

Quote:

But far from refuting the concepts of personal liberty, complete ownership of your body is what establishes them. The principles of individual liberty not only include your rights as an individual but also the rights of others. Of course no one has total freedom, but that fact certainly doesn’t eliminate rights.



Hold on, I agree with that! I'm not saying that we don't have any rights. But when it comes to activities that have global results, and those activities are necessary (or deemed to be necessary at this point in time), those rights cannot be 100% watertight.

Quote:

It looks like you think the existence of rights violations imply that we have no rights.



Nono, that would be taking it too far. I'm saying that there is a limit to our rights, and that limit is imposed by the practical implications of the entanglement and complexity of the world we live in, not so much by any guidelines or ideals that we may come up with as humans.

Quote:

Or maybe you are falling for the Nirvana fallacy; criticizing it because it’s not perfect.



That is one way of putting it, and you're right that I tend to be prone to that. Or maybe I'm just generally pessimistic. But personally, I like to think of it as being aware, and wary, of an essentially virtuous concept that could turn into dogma, thereby doing more bad than good.

Quote:

But I AM sure that enforcing individual liberty and property rights will NOT lead to war. Most wars are caused by the exact opposite: governments that don’t respect those principles.



Well, there's the essence: is it the violation of principles that leads to war, or is it the enforcement of principles that leads to their violation and thereby causes war? I am advocating the second, while I am aware that it only works in combination with the first. The reason why I emphasize the second is that in Western society, it seems to be the de facto standard to capture an ideal in legislation and then enforcing that legislation, without sufficient regard of the practical limitations to that ideal. In my opinion, it is just too easy to shout that a certain principle should be considered as a universal truth, and then punishing any violation of that principle. In the past, it has led to crusades and the Holocaust, to name a few particularly nasty extremes.

Again, I agree that spewing radioactive contamination over a huge area is obviously bad practice to say the least. But are you going to forbid your neighbor to drive his car, generating exhaust fumes that do damage besides the debatable mechanisms of global warming? Are you going to go off the grid right now because some of the power you consume comes from nuclear power plants that are just as prone to an accident as those in Fukushima?

Ideals are a good thing. But so is pragmatism, in my opinion.

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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: koraks]
    #14851932 - 07/31/11 02:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I really dont wanna be fearmongering you guys.. but folks in the united states need to check the reality! Europeans. not so much.

It shouldnt be a problem sticking to indoor grown organic material. Oh yeah, you guys might have forgot, but fukushima is still puking as it did 4 months ago. and what happened to that fire onto the nueclear testing site at fort Knox or whatever?

We're all going to die. thats not what Im worried about. but ya'lls genetics will be downgraded unfortunately. hope you dont get mutated babies! *fearmonger*..


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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: lasdR]
    #14851957 - 07/31/11 02:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

rable, rable, rable! *fear monger*  :grin:


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InvisiblelasdR
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14852832 - 07/31/11 06:10 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ignore it. thatll do the job.


Still -


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InvisiblelasdR
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: ToxicMan]
    #14852873 - 07/31/11 06:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ToxicMan said:
OK, I have now read the Greenpeace report. I haven't read the Russian publication, which is a book, and I don't intend to go out and buy it.

I have also researched a bit and found significant critique for both publications.

Both rely heavily on non peer reviewed articles. Neither has gone through peer review. Unfortunately, that means that, although interesting reading, neither can be too seriously.

The Greenpeace report brings up some good points, and does highlight some issues with morbidity and mortality figures and reporting, but then goes on to include some wild estimates from various sources. To put that into other words, the various figures of 200,000 and up for deaths are not supported by anything that would survive peer review.

The best part of the Greenpeace report is that it does a good job of highlighting uncertainties, particularly in things like what actual dosages are for affected populations. In fact, we do not know how much radiation was released at Chernobyl, we only have some reasonable estimates.


I'm not going to attempt to present a detailed critique of the publications. If anybody wants that, there are some out there by people who professionally do dosimetry. If you really want to know about this sort of topic in detail, those are the exact people you want to listen to. Their job, and their specific area of expertise, is working with exactly this sort of information.

Happy mushrooming!




Are you still of this conclusion? They "official" numbers are often not to be trusted when it comes to "key" issues which certain interests invest in.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: lasdR]
    #14853378 - 07/31/11 07:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Unless you have some numbers of your own, I am going to go with the official numbers.  I trust them.

My friends built a radiation detector from scratch using a sodium iodide crystal doped with thallium and they have not uncovered anything alarming.  They bring it to parties sometimes, I checked the kitchen broom and various other things around the house and found nothing radioactive.  I thought for sure the smoke detectors would be radioactive, but the new smoke detectors do not use americium-241.

There are lots of people monitoring radiation around the world, if they notice something there would be no way to silence them.

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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #14854225 - 07/31/11 11:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know shit about a lot of things but radiation I do

There is no hazardous amount of radioactive nuclides in the mushrooms around the world from the Japan accident. If you have mushrooms from within say 50 miles of the plants, probably want to be careful about how Much you eat...But north america and Europe have nothing to be concerned with...

Be aware that people with an agenda against the use of nuclear power are going to and have said inane and incorrect things, to scare people... Please worry about the mercury or dioxins or other materials that are more likely not doing you any favors... The radioactive materials in the US or Europe from the Japan accident is not one to worry about.


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InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
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Re: CAUTION! 2011 mushrooms in northern hemisphere contaminated by Fukushima [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #14854343 - 07/31/11 11:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
There are lots of people monitoring radiation around the world, if they notice something there would be no way to silence them.




:whathesaid:


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