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Offlinewebidiot2k4
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Hpoo pasteurization question
    #14467708 - 05/17/11 12:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Ok I was pasteurizing some hpoo and it was @ 166 degrees I came back 30 mins later and was at 176. I turned it back down and remained at 166-168 for 30 more mins.  Should I be ok or should I start over? (getting water to stay at a specific temp is more complicated then I thought lol)


Edited by webidiot2k4 (05/17/11 03:52 PM)


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OfflineBuckeye Oysters
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Re: Hpoo pasteuriztion question [Re: webidiot2k4]
    #14467884 - 05/17/11 01:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

as long as the water temp stays between 160-180 is doesnt matter if it fluctuates during the 1-2hr pasteurization time.  Just spread out poo to cool when done so that the process stops.


--------------------
Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise.  Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated.  For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.


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Offlinewebidiot2k4
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #14468059 - 05/17/11 01:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

what would be the maximum time that you could keep at these temperatures?


Edited by webidiot2k4 (05/17/11 03:53 PM)


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Offlinewebidiot2k4
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: webidiot2k4]
    #14468572 - 05/17/11 03:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

well can you pasteurize for too long is what im trying to ask


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OfflineBuckeye Oysters
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: webidiot2k4]
    #14469083 - 05/17/11 05:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

anything over 2hrs is bad


--------------------
Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise.  Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated.  For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.


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Invisiblebootster
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #14469109 - 05/17/11 05:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

RR says "at least 90 min". How can you say that 120 min is harmful? Just asking.


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OfflineBuckeye Oysters
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: bootster]
    #14469134 - 05/17/11 05:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

uh.. cause 90min isnt 120min of course!  RR says 90min cause that is a safe zone between 60-120min, anything less or more it will not work.


--------------------
Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise.  Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated.  For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.


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Invisiblebootster
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #14469254 - 05/17/11 06:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

uh...I've read that you should PC grains anywhere from 60 to 180 min...not everything is carved in stone in this hobby. RR?


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Offline3n1gm4
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: bootster]
    #14471509 - 05/18/11 02:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

There are beneficial micro organisms for cubes in poo, pasteurizing too long can kill them and too high of a temp can kill them, correct pasteurization kills the contams and harmful organisms and spares the beneficial ones.


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http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-CalculatorLOL when you zoom in to try to read my sig pics you will get lost in the crystal forrest of ghanni!


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Invisiblebootster
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: 3n1gm4]
    #14472069 - 05/18/11 07:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Not to sound arrogant but I'm aware of all that,I just have never heard the 120 min. rule for pasteurization of hpoo. 

From what I understand,most people pasteurize and then turn the heat off and let it "cool" overnight. The inherent mass of bulk substrate will keep the temp high unless you manually cool it. Where is it said that you need to forcefully cool it or it "won't work"?

RR?


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Offline3n1gm4
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: bootster]
    #14473671 - 05/18/11 02:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The poo obviously never gets to the temp that destroys the beneficial parts or the pasteurization temp would be lower, I am sure that your outer part of a poo sub can get hotter than the recommended temp for a short time to heat the inside faster without destroying much of the benefits it provides. Am I wrong?


--------------------
http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-CalculatorLOL when you zoom in to try to read my sig pics you will get lost in the crystal forrest of ghanni!


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Invisiblebootster
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #14505824 - 05/24/11 06:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Buckeye Oysters said:
uh.. cause 90min isnt 120min of course!  RR says 90min cause that is a safe zone between 60-120min, anything less or more it will not work.




OK then,I'll just assume :grin: that the pasteurization process isn't critical. I consider myself as an amateur scientist/mycologist. I didn't believe in the rapture. I like facts. I am SOOO confused now. :confused:


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #14505881 - 05/24/11 06:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Buckeye Oysters said:
anything over 2hrs is bad




Incorrect.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineBuckeye Oysters
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14507749 - 05/24/11 11:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
Quote:

Buckeye Oysters said:
anything over 2hrs is bad




Incorrect.




GGMM and RR will tell you otherwise.


--------------------
Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise.  Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated.  For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.


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OfflineBelief
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #14507793 - 05/25/11 12:10 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Depends how deep the heat needs to penetrate


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: Belief]
    #14511729 - 05/25/11 08:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Ive done a hundred pasteurizations of 3 hours:



There are many people who have given great info (agar, sixtango) who suggest 2-3 hours, even at 170-180 degrees. 150-170 degrees for 3 or 4 hours (plus the time it takes the substrate to cool off after coming out of the bath) and lots of success.

Im not debating the lower temps to be better, and I'm not saying 60-90 minutes isnt all the time you need or even that its the best time. My problem is "anything over 2 hours is bad".

Thats just not true, it can work perfectly fine even IF its not "optimal".


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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InvisibleDoctor_Inoc
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14511858 - 05/25/11 08:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Im not debating the lower temps to be better, and I'm not saying 60-90 minutes isnt all the time you need or even that its the best time. My problem is "anything over 2 hours is bad".

Thats just not true, it can work perfectly fine even IF its not "optimal".



:thumbup:

Personally, I prefer to pasteurize using the slow pasteurization method at the lower end of the proper pasteurization temperature range (135-150F) for 90 minutes.

When your spawn is healthy, all you really need to do to successfully prepare substrates for colonization by mushroom mycelium are to knock back those anaerobic bacteria enough so that the grain spawn can colonize the substrate materials before contamination can gain a foot-holding.


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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: Doctor_Inoc]
    #14512096 - 05/25/11 09:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting. Thanks.


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OfflineBuckeye Oysters
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14519838 - 05/27/11 08:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
Ive done a hundred pasteurizations of 3 hours:



There are many people who have given great info (agar, sixtango) who suggest 2-3 hours, even at 170-180 degrees. 150-170 degrees for 3 or 4 hours (plus the time it takes the substrate to cool off after coming out of the bath) and lots of success.

Im not debating the lower temps to be better, and I'm not saying 60-90 minutes isnt all the time you need or even that its the best time. My problem is "anything over 2 hours is bad".

Thats just not true, it can work perfectly fine even IF its not "optimal".





Of course it is going to take that long if you are doing large bags like that as the center will take longer to heat, but if you are pasteurizing jars or straw with a water bath where the heat penetrates quicker it WILL semi-sterilize your project, i have done it. 

I would bet that your large bags of bulk, if pasteurized for 3hrs at 170-180, are actually pasteurized in the center and semisterilized on the outside because thin plastic is not a good insulator like glass jars which allow the heat to rise evenly.  But because you probably mix your bags up and use a good rate of spawn you never notice any problems.


--------------------
Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise.  Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated.  For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Hpoo pasteurization question [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #14520046 - 05/27/11 09:56 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Those arent large bags, each poo bag has about 2 or 3 quarts (maybe) of poo.

And I nuke them for a few minutes until warm to the touch to help get them up (again, Agar's trick). Then I stick a thermometer in the water, and one in the center bag through the rubber band in the top and my 3 hour countdown begins when the center of the substrate gets to temp.



IF its semi-sterilized, so be it. I leave those bags to sit for weeks, they always worked unless I screwed something up. Also, I followed the same timing using quart jars for the first bit of time I was pasteurizing. I just dont like washing that many jars, and with bags I could double how much I do, to the same efficiency.

I think of it as a pork shoulder, which isnt done until it reaches 185 degrees (for pulled pork). Doesnt matter if its 2 hours or 12 hours its at that temp, it wont get any hotter. After 12 hours, yeah itll start drying up. I wouldnt do poo for to long. But I would use poo that was (somehow) accidentally "pasteurized" for 12 hours.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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