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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Why is rape wrong?
    #14467412 - 05/17/11 11:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Help a bruthuh to understand.


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Offlinem_m
Lysergic Dreams


Registered: 03/07/10
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #14467420 - 05/17/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Because it can hurt someone in an extremely intimate and profound way. Why is it not wrong?


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everyone's life ends but no one ever completes it


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InvisibleSporesAndSpores
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14467436 - 05/17/11 11:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

^^What he said. Would you want to be raped? Wait a second.... don't answer that.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: m_m]
    #14467442 - 05/17/11 11:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

One of the most-oft-used arguments around here is 'because it is found in nature'.

Example 1: Is homosexuality wrong? No, because animals do it.

Example 2: Cannabis and/or magic mushrooms are way better than synthetic drugs like 2C-E because they are natural.

I contend the 'it is found in nature' argument must be applied equally to all topics or abolished altogether.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14467455 - 05/17/11 11:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Straw man argument, try again. :thumbdown:


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?


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Offlinei like cow poo
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #14467456 - 05/17/11 11:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think the nature argument is foolproof and it doesn't apply to everything. Spiders eat there babies, that doesn't mean we should :rofl:
Rape is an act the causes emotional destruction to another person, therefore its a no no.
Silly austin is silly:awedisgust:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: i like cow poo]
    #14467464 - 05/17/11 11:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

So the 'natural' argument should be applied arbitrarily when it is convenient?

I think naked wood nymphs are just plain wrong, but it IS natural! :awesome:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Doc_T]
    #14467467 - 05/17/11 11:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Straw man argument, try again. :thumbdown:




How is the unequal application of a concept a strawman?


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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: m_m]
    #14467468 - 05/17/11 11:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I do not want to get raped. It just doesn't sound like something I'd ever want to experience. If I don't want to get raped others probably don't either.


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"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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Offlinem_m
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: SlashOZ]
    #14467486 - 05/17/11 11:33 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone, neither does cannabis. If what your doing is causing someone physical and/or emotional pain, chances are you shouldn't be doing it.


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everyone's life ends but no one ever completes it


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OfflineOrium
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: SlashOZ]
    #14467494 - 05/17/11 11:35 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Why is stealing wrong?  Why is murdering wrong?

A person should be able to walk around and not fear some one sexually assaulting them.  Thats why its wrong.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14467495 - 05/17/11 11:35 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:feelsbadman:


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OfflineSolomon Ash
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14467521 - 05/17/11 11:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

heres a different question:

Would it be wrong to rape a serial rapist, in order to give him a taste of his own medicine and teach him a lesson?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14467525 - 05/17/11 11:45 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Only if other animals do it.


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (05/17/11 01:25 PM)


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14467527 - 05/17/11 11:45 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It's not wrong, it is what it is.


Edited by xFrockx (05/17/11 11:46 AM)


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OfflineMikeallojee
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: xFrockx] * 1
    #14467542 - 05/17/11 11:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Troll! Troll! Troll! Alert


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Offlinei like cow poo
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Mikeallojee]
    #14467545 - 05/17/11 11:50 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:imspecial:


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OfflineOrium
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Mikeallojee]
    #14467554 - 05/17/11 11:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Solomon Ash said:
heres a different question:

Would it be wrong to rape a serial rapist, in order to give him a taste of his own medicine and teach him a lesson?




Yes. Rape is wrong.  Vengeance begets vengeance.

Quote:

Mikeallojee said:
Troll! Troll! Troll! Alert




I know, right?


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Mikeallojee]
    #14467564 - 05/17/11 11:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Not at all. 

You don't even know what wrong is. What is wrong?


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Offlinem_m
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: i like cow poo] * 1
    #14467580 - 05/17/11 11:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'd say an action that is wrong is something that shouldn't be done.


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everyone's life ends but no one ever completes it


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: m_m]
    #14467633 - 05/17/11 12:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

So how do we know what is what shouldn't be done? Nice circular definition.


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Offlinem_m
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: xFrockx]
    #14467648 - 05/17/11 12:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well like I said earlier, I think that you shouldn't do something if it hurts someone physically and/or emotionally. That's just my opinion though, to each his own, I just try not to do things that hurt people. What's circular about that?


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______________________________________________________________________________________
everyone's life ends but no one ever completes it


Edited by m_m (05/17/11 12:17 PM)


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InvisibleLSDilocybin
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: xFrockx]
    #14467670 - 05/17/11 12:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

you can rape someone as long as u dont mind their loved ones chopping your dick off and tieing you up in a secluded cave full of rats so they can eat you alive. They will nibble you to your fuckikng death, starting with your eyes.

that is exactly what rape will do to a victim, eat them alive on the inside. in a sense you take away a part of their soul, so thats why i like how the rats will go for the eyes first. it's the perfect punishment for rape. Dont like it? dont let me catch you raping folks. mother fuckers, been tired of that shit long ago. zero tolerance. punishable by DEATH.


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"We are perfect mirrors in the sun and we brightly shine, we are singing and dancing in perfect time, there is nothing in the world that we can do, to stop the light of love come shining through" --Sally Oldfield


:heart: :levitate: :inlove: :tripping: :inlove3: "Vibrate in Love." :inlove3: :tripping: :inlove: :levitate: :heart:
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InvisibleLSDilocybin
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: LSDilocybin]
    #14467686 - 05/17/11 12:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

its this simple.  for every action there is a consequence. you might think u know what the consequence is in advance.....but you might be surprised at what some people will do when the protectivness for someone being raped comes out of them.  thats how a lot of people get killed and how otherwise good people commut murder. just to hear about someone you love beinf raped brings out the demon.  id kill over it...


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"We are perfect mirrors in the sun and we brightly shine, we are singing and dancing in perfect time, there is nothing in the world that we can do, to stop the light of love come shining through" --Sally Oldfield


:heart: :levitate: :inlove: :tripping: :inlove3: "Vibrate in Love." :inlove3: :tripping: :inlove: :levitate: :heart:
                          :tripping2:


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InvisibleCups
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: LSDilocybin]
    #14467808 - 05/17/11 12:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Don't know about this new crew of yours OC.

They seem a bit skittish. Probably shouldn't tell 'em what happened to the last crew.



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What's up everybody?!


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14467816 - 05/17/11 12:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Its wrong because we define it to be wrong.  That how all notions of right and wrong are had, they are defined not discovered.


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Offlineorison
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14467822 - 05/17/11 12:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Solomon Ash said:
heres a different question:

Would it be wrong to rape a serial rapist, in order to give him a taste of his own medicine and teach him a lesson?


yes, unless you kill them after the butthurt, all youll do is anger them and they will repeat it on someone else. This is why D.O.C. puts rapists in Protective custody, sometimes.


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Offlinei like cow poo
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Cups]
    #14467946 - 05/17/11 01:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cups said:
Don't know about this new crew of yours OC.

They seem a bit skittish. Probably shouldn't tell 'em what happened to the last crew.





:ilold:
And the mexican guy you're out of your element. Noone gives two shits about your hypothetical philosophical crap. Go to another planet if you don't think rape is wrong
:maximumtrolling:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: orison]
    #14467947 - 05/17/11 01:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

OC = Of Corrections?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: i like cow poo]
    #14467961 - 05/17/11 01:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Why has nature evolved so that many animals rape, thus passing on the strongest, most aggressive genes?


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InvisibleCups
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: i like cow poo]
    #14467970 - 05/17/11 01:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

i like cow poo said:

And the mexican guy you're out of your element. Noone gives two shits about your hypothetical philosophical crap. Go to another planet if you don't think rape is wrong
:maximumtrolling:




Who's the mexican guy?  DieCommie?


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What's up everybody?!


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Cups]
    #14467989 - 05/17/11 01:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Vin Diesel ia a common Hispanic name. :yesnod:


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14468023 - 05/17/11 01:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Example 1: Is homosexuality wrong? No, because animals do it.



Uh what? Homosexuality being found in other, non-human animals says nothing about whether it's "right" or "wrong"- it's just a direct counter to the claim often made that being gay is a choice, and that the reasons are societal programming/bad parenting.

Either you totally misunderstood the argument, or deliberately used a ridiculous strawman. Either way, :lol:

Quote:

Example 2: Cannabis and/or magic mushrooms are way better than synthetic drugs like 2C-E because they are natural.




Yes, that is a dumb statement, and I hear it all the time around here. Still has no bearing on whether or not rape is wrong.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: NetDiver]
    #14468045 - 05/17/11 01:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

What about the opposite of rape? Not letting cannabis plants be fertilized is very cruel.


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OfflineHrethic
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14468128 - 05/17/11 02:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Lemme me throw in my 2cents if it hasn't already been mentioned, sorry if it has..

We're conscious beings. More so than any other animal, to a close to degree in some cases, but much more so in some respects. THAT is the fundamental answer that maybe murder is not wrong, (can't answer that in the exact way that this is), but why something like rape, torture, and those truly heinous emotionally assualtive crimes strike at our "hearts", because we are so very conscious of the being that is us and everyone else, and what we mean to ourselves and others. To be assaulted in such a personal way does such warped things to that fabric of our mind/spirit/heart that we're so in touch with, more so than other creatures in "nature".

And that's how high i am bitches!! Good, thought provoking thread man!

And i just want to say that I've never been raped, so I'm sorry if that blew it out of proportion, or you'd think i was just talking to sound smart, i didn't mean that in any way, this is just my impression of what i can imagine that to be.


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Will all the big boomers please unveil, please unveil, please unveil.


Edited by Hrethic (05/17/11 02:17 PM)


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Invisiblecc2
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14468554 - 05/17/11 03:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Why is rape wrong?




:facepalm:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: cc2]
    #14468567 - 05/17/11 03:47 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I guess you are stumped else you would answer.


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (05/17/11 04:05 PM)


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Offlinei like cow poo
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14468600 - 05/17/11 03:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Dude go get raped by a big black man and come back and tell us that you still think rape is ok:laugh2:


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Invisiblecc2
Mush

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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14468621 - 05/17/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I guess you are stumped else you would anser.




sure man, sure...you're blissed that everyone of us is slapping your face before your hole will be more brutally slapped, if it hasn't been yet, that is :rolleyes:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: i like cow poo] * 1
    #14468643 - 05/17/11 04:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

i like cow poo said:
Dude go get raped by a big black man and come back and tell us that you still think rape is ok:laugh2:




I don't recall him ever saying that rape was ok. I guess that this forum makes some people hallucinate extra meaning...


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:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: i like cow poo]
    #14468649 - 05/17/11 04:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

i like cow poo said:
Dude go get raped by a big black man and come back and tell us that you still think rape is ok:laugh2:




Interesting that you support racism.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14468656 - 05/17/11 04:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

i like cow poo said:
Dude go get raped by a big black man and come back and tell us that you still think rape is ok:laugh2:




I don't recall him ever saying that rape was ok. I guess that this forum makes some people hallucinate extra meaning...





You are such a silly girl, actually reading what I wrote instead of projecting.


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Offline4896744
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: i like cow poo]
    #14468718 - 05/17/11 04:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

i like cow poo said:
Dude go get raped by a big black man and come back and tell us that you still think rape is ok:laugh2:




What words of wisdom. :facepalm:


Rape is not inherently "wrong", because the idea of inherent "wrongness" rests on the faulty premise of objective morality. Rape may be "wrong" on an individual basis due to the possible negative repercussions associated with committing rape, such as jail time or social stigma.


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Live your Life! :heart:


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #14468767 - 05/17/11 04:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Help a bruthuh to understand.





Would you want a 250 pound black man (mexican man, white man, asian man) holding you down and forcing his cock into your ass?

You might like rape. Who knows?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: XUL]
    #14468805 - 05/17/11 04:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

So, to rephrase your POV, anything that a person doesn't like is wrong?


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Offlinedjnoktirnal
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: XUL]
    #14468843 - 05/17/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

because it violates right to free will
if there is consent, it isn't rape
it is wrong for someone to be forced into something(sex, giving up property, giving up any natural right against ones will.)
as far as nature, how do you know the difference in an animal raping another, and 2 animals having consensual sex?
also the concepts of right and wrong seem only to be a factor in humans.
Things happen in nature that we would consider wrong or bad. Natural does not = good or right in the human sense. Some animals eat their young, some their mates. They kill, and they also seemingly intimidate, steal, assault, harass, lie, and cheat. But we would have to be in the predator's and prey's head to know the full story.


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WWJDWWMD's?

What Would Jesus Do With Weapons of Mass Destruction?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: djnoktirnal]
    #14468852 - 05/17/11 04:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I don't consent to taxes.


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Offlinem_m
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14468874 - 05/17/11 04:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You're a terrible troll. :facepalm:


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______________________________________________________________________________________
everyone's life ends but no one ever completes it


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14468965 - 05/17/11 05:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

One of the most-oft-used arguments around here is 'because it is found in nature'.

Those arguments only go to whether or not something is natural, not whether or not it's right.

Rape is natural as far as I can tell. So is infanticide and murder and war.

Whether or not those things are right is a whole other question. I guess we need a clear definition of what "right" and "wrong" are to answer it.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Diploid]
    #14469060 - 05/17/11 05:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The cereal I buy is 'All Natural!' How can I tell if it is immoral without a clear and easy metric?


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14469132 - 05/17/11 05:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If it has raisins in it, it's immoral. Yuck! :puke:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: m_m]
    #14469157 - 05/17/11 06:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

i like cow poo said:

And the mexican guy you're out of your element. Noone gives two shits about your hypothetical philosophical crap. Go to another planet if you don't think rape is wrong





You guys are the only trolls I see here.  If you can't handle people asking questions arguendo then philosophy probably isn't for you

Where exactly are you getting this "you don't think rape is wrong"?  Seems like you just made that up for the sake of your meritless condemnation.  What OC believes is irrelevant to the discussion anyways.

Quote:

m_m said:
You're a terrible troll. :facepalm:





Stop this bullshit.

Your namecalling is no less in violation of the rules because you allege the same of others.  If you have a problem with another member and can't handle it yourself, then PM diploid or hit the report post button.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: johnm214] * 1
    #14469204 - 05/17/11 06:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Rape is wrong because it allows those who women would otherwise select against to pass on their genes, thus creating a next generation of thugs and losers.

It's the last bit of eugenics humans are allowed to use, don't take it from us!


--------------------
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: johnm214]
    #14469298 - 05/17/11 06:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think a more important thing to ponder would be how productive an infinitely regressive series of questions being posed by the OP are in response to the posts in this thread. Oh I get it, Socratic ignorance is suppose to help lead us to some deeper truths, riiiight.

There are a number of philosophical, sociological, psychological, etc. reasons as to why rape is wrong. I'll provide a few here

1. Philosophical, Kant's Categorical Imperative.
2. Sociology, Why are occurrences of rape higher in certain areas than others? Determining these factors might help us decrease the number of rapes in that area. Or, the overuse of the term rape as a metaphor and how that numbs us to the reality of rape, similar to violence in media etc.
3. Psychological, rape victims usually report and exhibit a myriad of negative psychological issues following their assaults.

I'd say this thread is useless on several levels. Intellectually it is a circle jerk thanks to the OP. Socially this thread is not addressing rape as a serious act, ie posts saying 'go get raped by such and such type of person etc'. Finally, there has not been any discussion on why rape occurs and how to help prevent it in the future. Very shallow discussion going on here :facepalm:


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14469798 - 05/17/11 08:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I don't consent to taxes.



...thank you!
see Taxes, as well, are wrong. It's extortion. Theft by coercion or threat of force. Would you go to your neighbor and threaten them with violence to get some of their money? Would you hire your other neighbor to do it? If no, then why is it ok for us to tell our govt to go steal money from certain people, and give it to others. All taxes should be consensual. Remember, it's what kicked off the American Revolution.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14469852 - 05/17/11 08:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Its wrong because we define it to be wrong.  That how all notions of right and wrong are had, they are defined not discovered.




I agree.  If the greater majority of humans didn't collectively agree that it was "wrong" then it wouldn't be so.

I think that's about it for this question.

:cthulhu:


--------------------
See my shadow changing,
Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor.
Hoping I can clear the way
By stepping through my shadow,
Coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow.
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Yith]
    #14469917 - 05/17/11 08:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

but some people define things to be wrong that others do not, take drugs, for example. Some will tell you that it is wrong to take ANY drug, and while sipping on a espresso full of caffiene. On other things, almost all people will agree on it's "rightness" or "wrongness".
I also disagree that this topic is shallow and usless. I am of the opinion that evrything should be qustioned. If you don't ask the question, you never get an answer. Anyway, the topic is "why is rape wrong?", not "how do we prevent rape?", or "why is rape occurring?"; which don't even come close into delving into why it is wrong.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14470065 - 05/17/11 09:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

i like cow poo said:
Dude go get raped by a big black man and come back and tell us that you still think rape is ok:laugh2:




I don't recall him ever saying that rape was ok. I guess that this forum makes some people hallucinate extra meaning...





You are such a silly girl, actually reading what I wrote instead of projecting.




Well I was going to suggest, that I rape you in the ass with my strap on, but perhaps that is just projecting my desire to rape you in the ass with a strap on...

Why would raping you in the ass with a strap on be wrong?

I am quite good at it, you might even like it OC.  :iloveyou:


--------------------
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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Yith]
    #14470120 - 05/17/11 09:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Yith said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Its wrong because we define it to be wrong.  That how all notions of right and wrong are had, they are defined not discovered.




I agree.  If the greater majority of humans didn't collectively agree that it was "wrong" then it wouldn't be so.

I think that's about it for this question.

:cthulhu:




Consensus by definition requires agreement, but this does not imply the consensus is independant of other factors, that the matter has no objective basis for selecting between options.

Rape violates the notion of a person's bod being their property and this has obvious reasons for being socially disfavored.  Additionally, empathy tends to prevent people from acting against another's will, body, et cet

Besides the sociological justifications for regarding a person's body as their property, the ethical basis isn't interelly arbitrary as this is among the most basic ethical precepts that one who isn't entirely nihilistic in outlook could adopt.  Historically it  has been such in different ethical models, and I take some comfort in concluding that whatever your ethics, it would be impossible to regard any system of ethics inconsistant with your body being your property as more convincing- at least to my reckoning.  The notion of your body being your property is consistant with your de facto control over its faculties and the lack of others having such control.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14470160 - 05/17/11 09:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
Well I was going to suggest, that I rape you in the ass with my strap on, but perhaps that is just projecting my desire to rape you in the ass with a strap on...

Why would raping you in the ass with a strap on be wrong?

I am quite good at it, you might even like it OC.  :iloveyou:




Now that don't sound natural... therefore, can't be right. :tongue:


--------------------


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Mufungo]
    #14470167 - 05/17/11 09:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:
Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
Well I was going to suggest, that I rape you in the ass with my strap on, but perhaps that is just projecting my desire to rape you in the ass with a strap on...

Why would raping you in the ass with a strap on be wrong?

I am quite good at it, you might even like it OC.  :iloveyou:




Now that don't sound natural... therefore, can't be right. :tongue:




Well, it was worth a shot.


--------------------
:inlove3::inlove3:


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Yith]
    #14470175 - 05/17/11 09:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If everyone agreed to jump of a bridge would it be right to jump off a bridge?


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: xFrockx] * 1
    #14470293 - 05/17/11 09:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Sometimes it is. In many parts of the world they've developed a tourism industry around it. It's called bungee jumping.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: djnoktirnal]
    #14470798 - 05/17/11 11:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

djnoktirnal said:
because it violates right to free will



Since when was "free will" ever a right? :lol:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: SlashOZ]
    #14471107 - 05/18/11 12:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Intellectually it is a circle jerk thanks to the OP.




But it IS consentual. :crazy:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14471119 - 05/18/11 12:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Well I was going to suggest, that I rape you in the ass with my strap on, but perhaps that is just projecting my desire to rape you in the ass with a strap on...

Why would raping you in the ass with a strap on be wrong?

I am quite good at it, you might even like it OC. 




It would be wrong because your tiny ass cannot provide enough thrust. Other than that... :wink:


--------------------


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14471164 - 05/18/11 12:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Well I was going to suggest, that I rape you in the ass with my strap on, but perhaps that is just projecting my desire to rape you in the ass with a strap on...

Why would raping you in the ass with a strap on be wrong?

I am quite good at it, you might even like it OC. 




It would be wrong because your tiny ass cannot provide enough thrust. Other than that... :wink:




PROOF!!!!!!!


--------------------
:inlove3::inlove3:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14471669 - 05/18/11 03:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Well I was going to suggest, that I rape you in the ass with my strap on, but perhaps that is just projecting my desire to rape you in the ass with a strap on...

Why would raping you in the ass with a strap on be wrong?

I am quite good at it, you might even like it OC. 




It would be wrong because your tiny ass cannot provide enough thrust. Other than that... :wink:




PROOF!!!!!!!




So, rape is only wrong if it isn't done hard enough?


--------------------
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Blondell_Letrange] * 1
    #14471859 - 05/18/11 06:00 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Well I was going to suggest, that I rape you in the ass with my strap on, but perhaps that is just projecting my desire to rape you in the ass with a strap on...

Why would raping you in the ass with a strap on be wrong?

I am quite good at it, you might even like it OC. 




It would be wrong because your tiny ass cannot provide enough thrust. Other than that... :wink:




PROOF!!!!!!!




Yeah, I wanna see that ass too. :naughty:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14471905 - 05/18/11 06:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

initially, in warfare
pillaging was sanctioned robbery
and rape was a way to inject your clan into the other further erasing the borders of your claim.
the soldiers were all men,
and women were part of the conquered land - literally needing to be seeded. it was a duty.

in peacetime
women have been considered as property
so without war as a context, rape has been a form of property damage

we are in a new phase,
we don't know what is what anymore so it's just bad because of personal violence.
women are people
of course not everyone is on the same page.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #14472279 - 05/18/11 09:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

This question assumes "wrong" is something real.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Unison]
    #14473715 - 05/18/11 02:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Unison said:
This question assumes "wrong" is something real.




It was actually just bait for people who consider "wrong" to be something real.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14474312 - 05/18/11 04:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:fishing:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14474643 - 05/18/11 06:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
:fishing:




It's wrong for you to infringe on those fish's "free will"! :mad2:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14475230 - 05/18/11 08:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Help a bruthuh to understand.



When i was in rehab well in the Out-Patient part, still rehab cuz i was livin' in a half way house there were a couple girls in my group who had been raped... another 16 year old girl in my group had been molested by her father many times too.  But the women who were raped both suffered PTSD from the their "attackers."  For a female being raped is a traumatic experience... and traumatic experiences tend to change the way people cope because it absolutely destroys any sort of day to day coping mechanisms.  Rape is wrong because its a violation of your body and mind.  I feel so bad for those two women, the one was raped a couple decades ago and still has nightmares from the attack.  It tourtures their mind... always hanging back in their head and the feeling is gives them never really leaves if they cannot cope.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #14475584 - 05/18/11 09:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

tonight you..


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Unison]
    #14476782 - 05/19/11 03:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Help a bruthuh to understand.



When i was in rehab well in the Out-Patient part, still rehab cuz i was livin' in a half way house there were a couple girls in my group who had been raped... another 16 year old girl in my group had been molested by her father many times too.  But the women who were raped both suffered PTSD from the their "attackers."  For a female being raped is a traumatic experience... and traumatic experiences tend to change the way people cope because it absolutely destroys any sort of day to day coping mechanisms.  Rape is wrong because its a violation of your body and mind.  I feel so bad for those two women, the one was raped a couple decades ago and still has nightmares from the attack.  It tourtures their mind... always hanging back in their head and the feeling is gives them never really leaves if they cannot cope.





Yeah, but the fact that it hurts someone else is really just a utilitarian argument that works if you consider the views of other people relevant, which hasn't been established.  I don't think those kinds of arguments are all that great, regardless of the fact that they probably explain the evolutionary advantage of empathy and so foryh.


Quote:

Unison said:
This question assumes "wrong" is something real.




No kidding.  I'm not sure what point your trying to make but if your trying to arbitrarily change the premise I think you'd have the burden of demonstrating the appropriateness.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: johnm214]
    #14476824 - 05/19/11 03:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I personally classify doing something against someone else's will, that violates them so bad they suffer a mental illness from the trauma to be wrong:shrug:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #14476831 - 05/19/11 03:33 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Right, and most people do as well. Further, it seems relatively innate as a product of empathy and an ethics system flows relatively simply from the premise that you own your body or various utilitarian considerations.

I don't get how people think these bare claims are helpful in a philsophical context.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: johnm214]
    #14476838 - 05/19/11 03:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I would assume since you're human if you were raped you would see it as wrong as well.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #14476852 - 05/19/11 03:42 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Shifting gears here slightly, I believe the poll number was something like 72% of Americans thought killing Bin Laden was good. I also believe his life was taken against his will. This seemingly goes against your definition of right and wrong.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14476864 - 05/19/11 03:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not 72% of america:shrug:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #14476873 - 05/19/11 03:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I thought you might like to tackle something a little difficult. Guess I was wrong.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14476891 - 05/19/11 04:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well you are assuming that my definition of what is right and what is wrong would support the killing of bin laden as right

Personally I don't think illegally entering a country for the purpose of assassinating a person via government train hit squad is right.  Many people including my own government will justify breaking the law by claiming that "justice had been done."

However if i formed a hit squad who entered a country illegally in order to assassinate someone because i felt they were responsible for the death of someone close to me, i would be called a terrorist and would be prosecuted for such crimes.

Just because one has a little flag on ones shoulder and wears clothes which say "United States" may make that person above the law... but it does not change what they did was wrong.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #14477199 - 05/19/11 07:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I would assume since you're human if you were raped you would see it as wrong as well.




Nice appeal to emotion. :thumbup:


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744] * 1
    #14477215 - 05/19/11 07:10 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I would assume since you're human if you were raped you would see it as wrong as well.




Nice appeal to emotion. :thumbup:




"Wrong" and "right" are appeals to emotion in the first place.  This thread is just silly.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14477218 - 05/19/11 07:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

How can you address the question with out emotion being involved?


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Offline4896744
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #14477229 - 05/19/11 07:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
How can you address the question with out emotion being involved?




By looking at it rationally and realizing that all morality is a completely subjective construct? :lol:


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14477233 - 05/19/11 07:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

How is rape right?


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Fraggin]
    #14477239 - 05/19/11 07:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Fraggin said:
How is rape right?





Who cares?  Make your own thread if you want to ask another question- presuming this isn't just an elementary shifting of the burden of proof and straw man argument against a position nobody claimed, that is.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: johnm214]
    #14477257 - 05/19/11 07:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Who Cares? Borderline personalism there mr. Moderator.

Logical assertions of right vs. wrong are impossible to prove as the polarity exists in an emotional frame of reference. The question presented can only be validated by proving both sides of the perspective.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Fraggin]
    #14477510 - 05/19/11 09:07 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Fraggin said:
Who Cares? Borderline personalism there mr. Moderator.

Logical assertions of right vs. wrong are impossible to prove as the polarity exists in an emotional frame of reference. The question presented can only be validated by proving both sides of the perspective.




Questions are only valid if both potential answers are proven to be true? :braindamage:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Fraggin]
    #14477578 - 05/19/11 09:24 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)



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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14477598 - 05/19/11 09:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I would assume since you're human if you were raped you would see it as wrong as well.




Nice appeal to emotion. :thumbup:




"Wrong" and "right" are appeals to emotion in the first place.  This thread is just silly.




Well, then it's good we have you around with your magnificent remarks. :smile:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14477629 - 05/19/11 09:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:moon:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14477637 - 05/19/11 09:35 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
How can you address the question with out emotion being involved?




By looking at it rationally and realizing that all morality is a completely subjective construct? :lol:





I'm glad you are the arbiter of truth when it comes to 'all morality' being 'completely subjective'. Care to elaborate on that or are you just asserting things as truth with no proof or rationality or reasoning behind it?

Next, how is subjective morality mutually exclusive from accurately judging right and wrong?

Finally, if right and wrong are subjective then why are you arguing with people who are posting their subjective views on why rape is wrong. Since, being subjective that would make their view on reality true to them as individuals. We can differ on morality but that doesn't make our judgments about morality wrong if you truly believe them to be subjective. If people think rape is wrong let them think that instead of trying to act as if pointing out their judgment is subjective makes them incorrect.


--------------------
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14477647 - 05/19/11 09:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You gotta do something about that cellulite! :eek:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14477672 - 05/19/11 09:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Cellulite is stubborn.
Maybe you can rape it out of me.  I'll do my best to remain completely sterile, emotionless, and nonjudgmental during this process.

...is it still rape if the 'victim' is indifferent (and losing those unsightly lumps)?


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14477686 - 05/19/11 09:45 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
I'll do my best to remain completely sterile, emotionless, and nonjudgmental during this process.




That is the rational thing to do.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 1983]
    #14477694 - 05/19/11 09:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Thats how I encourage my victims to act.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Fraggin]
    #14477705 - 05/19/11 09:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

How can there be victims if there is no right or wrong?


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14477718 - 05/19/11 09:54 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Intellectual Rapee says:
Is that a penis entering my anus? I didn't agree to this... :goodmorning:
Good thing I understand that morality is subjective and based in emotions, or else this might have been a real problem for me. :levitate:




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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: SlashOZ]
    #14477729 - 05/19/11 09:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

First of all, my basis for saying that all morality is subjective is that there is no objective basis for saying something is "right" or "wrong". That is unless you have discovered the objective basis for "right" and "wrong" oh wise one.

Secondly, when did i claim that subjective morality and the judging of "right" and "wrong" are mutually exclusive? Do you lack basic reading comprehension? If anything i implied the opposite of that.

Lastly, how can something be "true for someone" but not for someone else? People can have subjective opinions on things, but they hold no objective merit. People here are not claiming to merely prefer one system of morality over another, but that their preffered system is objectively true.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 1983]
    #14477745 - 05/19/11 10:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

1983 said:
How can there be victims if there is no right or wrong?




Because "victim" is a labeling applied to the one having an action performed on them which is percieved as negative.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14477749 - 05/19/11 10:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

1983 said:
How can there be victims if there is no right or wrong?




Because "victim" is a labeling applied to the one having an action performed on them which is percieved as negative.




Wouldn't negative, in this case, be analogous to "wrong".


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14477762 - 05/19/11 10:09 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

1983 said:
How can there be victims if there is no right or wrong?




Because "victim" is a labeling applied to the one having an action performed on them which is percieved as negative.




Wouldn't negative, in this case, be analogous to "wrong".




Yes, but percieving something as negative is also subjective.


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Invisible1983
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14477785 - 05/19/11 10:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

So anything I perceive as negative done to me makes me a victim?


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14477789 - 05/19/11 10:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well.  Yep.

I agree with you.  Rape can not be objectively wrong because wrong cannot be objective.


Still think this is a silly topic. :tongue:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 1983]
    #14477815 - 05/19/11 10:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

1983 said:
So anything I perceive as negative done to me makes me a victim?




In your subjective view, yes.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14477858 - 05/19/11 10:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
First of all, my basis for saying that all morality is subjective is that there is no objective basis for saying something is "right" or "wrong". That is unless you have discovered the objective basis for "right" and "wrong" oh wise one.

Ok, there is no objective morality. I'll buy your argument even without proof. Seems to be how things are done around here.

Secondly, when did i claim that subjective morality and the judging of "right" and "wrong" are mutually exclusive? Do you lack basic reading comprehension? If anything i implied the opposite of that.

I'm sorry. In that case I'll clear things up. I believe rape is wrong and i am correct since it is a subjective belief and subjective beliefs on morality cannot be dis-proven because there is no objective morality to compare it to.

Lastly, how can something be "true for someone" but not for someone else? People can have subjective opinions on things, but they hold no objective merit. People here are not claiming to merely prefer one system of morality over another, but that their preffered system is objectively true.

If you think all morality is subjective then when someone asserts their view on morality it is objectively true for that individual. Subjectivity is truth for the individual. The fact that i like toast is an objective truth about me based on my subjective views on toast.

Example:
If i think rape is wrong then you would be objectively correct to say that, 'SlashOZ believes rape to be wrong.'

If i believe rape is wrong you would objectively wrong to say 'SlashOZ believes rape is okay.'

If we are discussing an issue of morality and you begin with the stance of 'there is not objective morality' then to question others subjective beliefs is an effort in futility.







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"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: SlashOZ]
    #14477974 - 05/19/11 11:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

A woman flirts with her date and voluntarily drinks herself into a near stupor. She is still conscious and her date takes her to bed with no objection. The next morning she protests.

Was the man wrong?


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14478010 - 05/19/11 11:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Probably, but I wouldn't convict him if I was on the jury if the victim didn't object and was capable of.  He's probably still an ass, but you should be damn sure of the facts when you convict someone, and I couldn't be sure that this was not just regret after the fact, shame, whatnot, rather than forced intercourse.

False reports do happen, for a variety of reasons, and it seems the more heinous and infamous the crime the more careful one should be that the nastyness of the subject or allegations doesn't color the decision made as to the merits of the claims.

Not everything has a legal solution.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: johnm214]
    #14478077 - 05/19/11 11:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I had two incidents with women over the years that were the antithesis to this type of situation.

Both women (years apart) asked to sleep over, but told me directly that they explicitly did NOT want to have sex. I agreed and made no attempt.

The first woman never spoke to me again. Her friends told me she was pissed for me not taking her. Did I not find her attractive? Did I need a written invitation? Hell, She was in her underwear lying next to me, how much clearer could she make her desire known?

The second woman I had pursued for months and then gave up because she was in a committed relationship, then one night to my surprise and delight, she asked me out and wined and dined me. Hottie: "OC, I am too tipsy to drive home, Can I stay the night without us having sex?" Me: "Um... OK."

I kiss her goodnight, but not too passionately as it is impossible to sleep with an erection. We lay quietly side-by-side in bed for like 20 minutes in the dark. Suddenly she pops up and jumps on top of me. "You silly! You didn't think we were just going to sleep did you?" We then proceeded to have the most amazing sex ever.

Conclusion: When a woman says "No!", she could mean yes, no or maybe.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14478258 - 05/19/11 12:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:facepalm:


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OfflinegrimR
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Fraggin]
    #14478503 - 05/19/11 12:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

this era keeps us too busy to appreciate rape. I mean who can afford to get raped randomly wen we have so much to do... back in more primitive times rape was probably much more appreciated than it is today :thumbup:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14478521 - 05/19/11 01:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It's like in telemarketing, no's are maybe's until they hang up.  Uhh...


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OfflinegrimR
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: xFrockx]
    #14478574 - 05/19/11 01:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

dont give up hope. keep casting ur rod n eventually you shall catch one that takes  :bonghit3: :smoker:


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Edited by grimR (05/19/11 01:16 PM)


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14478663 - 05/19/11 01:32 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I had two incidents with women over the years that were the antithesis to this type of situation.

Both women (years apart) asked to sleep over, but told me directly that they explicitly did NOT want to have sex. I agreed and made no attempt.

The first woman never spoke to me again. Her friends told me she was pissed for me not taking her. Did I not find her attractive? Did I need a written invitation? Hell, She was in her underwear lying next to me, how much clearer could she make her desire known?

The second woman I had pursued for months and then gave up because she was in a committed relationship, then one night to my surprise and delight, she asked me out and wined and dined me. Hottie: "OC, I am too tipsy to drive home, Can I stay the night without us having sex?" Me: "Um... OK."

I kiss her goodnight, but not too passionately as it is impossible to sleep with an erection. We lay quietly side-by-side in bed for like 20 minutes in the dark. Suddenly she pops up and jumps on top of me. "You silly! You didn't think we were just going to sleep did you?" We then proceeded to have the most amazing sex ever.

Conclusion: When a woman says "No!", she could mean yes, no or maybe.




Wow...  I'm sorry that shit happens.  Some people are really stupid about this kinda shit.  I'd be happy that you didn't do anything - it really shows that you can be trusted. 

Just be safe and go with no means no unless they initiate it like what happened in the second case.  No means no, but one can change their mind after the alcohol loosens things up... But they have to be the ones to initiate it at that point. Others who are too afraid to say what they want are probably full of shit anyway, no loss to you.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Orium]
    #14478836 - 05/19/11 02:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Orium said:


Wow...  I'm sorry that shit happens.  Some people are really stupid about this kinda shit.  I'd be happy that you didn't do anything - it really shows that you can be trusted. 

Just be safe and go with no means no unless they initiate it like what happened in the second case.  No means no, but one can change their mind after the alcohol loosens things up... But they have to be the ones to initiate it at that point. Others who are too afraid to say what they want are probably full of shit anyway, no loss to you.





Well, I think the whole point of this was that no doesn't neccesarily mean no.  I don't think cautionary advice is particularly needed however: I find it hard to believe someone could rape someone as a result of an innocent misunderstanding unless the victim was mentally ill or something and not with full mental/physical faculties.  I don't really understand the whole "no means no" stuff- it seems relatively obvious and not particularly helpful.  This may just be my bias though- as a male who believes the differences between the sexes in regards to sexuality is mostly cultural and that males get a bad rap more for cultural and physical reasons than anything inherent.


Orgone's older than a lot of people here though, so perhaps this was 'a different time'.  I've never experienced anything similar and would find the whole thing kinda creepy, honestly, if someone acted like that.  That sounds like exactly the kinda person who is so hung up on self doubt and judgment that they'd be the type to accuse you of rape if it was just regret, et cet.  Either way, its weird, and not at all attractive.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Orium]
    #14478852 - 05/19/11 02:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Wow...  I'm sorry that shit happens.




Me, too! I hate amazing sex. :wink:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14479131 - 05/19/11 03:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Shifting gears here slightly, I believe the poll number was something like 72% of Americans thought killing Bin Laden was good. I also believe his life was taken against his will. This seemingly goes against your definition of right and wrong.



Is this a serious post?


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: johnm214]
    #14479199 - 05/19/11 03:18 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I don't really understand the whole "no means no" stuff- it seems relatively obvious and not particularly helpful.




I beg to differ, especially when there are groups of people who seem to think its a good idea to go around dorms chanting "No mean yes, yes means anal!"  (Seriously).  Its sad how many people really, truly believe "no means yes."

And regarding the women who follow that: its often times instilled as some bullshit cultural norm.  IF YOU SAY YES YOU'RE A SLUT SO ALWAYS SAY NO.  Fuck THAT shit.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Orium]
    #14479447 - 05/19/11 04:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Orium said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
I don't really understand the whole "no means no" stuff- it seems relatively obvious and not particularly helpful.




I beg to differ, especially when there are groups of people who seem to think its a good idea to go around dorms chanting "No mean yes, yes means anal!"  (Seriously).  Its sad how many people really, truly believe "no means yes."





Yeah, but do they really think that?  I mean regardless of whether that's a nice thing to say, sounds pretty dumb to me, its hard for me to really believe folks think that way.  I mean this is stereotypical behavior of males that I was talking about, but I'd imagine that beyond the joke of exploiting sensitive issues for shock value, its not really serious. 

I don't really get the joke, and it does seem pretty rude and gross to me, but whatever- a joke isn't neccesarily truth.

Maybe its just that as a male I'm somewhat offended at the implication that there exists people who actually need this lesson.  I suppose I could be wrong- do people really get raped out of misunderstanding?  I guess I could imagine that in the bad old days where apparently situations like Orgone's experience did occur.  I guess at base its just hard for me to understand how someone physically stronger than their partner could initiate intercourse despite verbal and physical resistance in good faith, but maybe I'm just naive or something.  It would be hard for me not to convict someone in a case like this, for example, despite my recognition that false accusations do happen.

eh, I guess maybe I have to retreat from my prior position, lol.  I think I might just be letting my optimistic views color reality.  I do wonder how helpful the 'no means no' message is though.  I mean, how many people really require such a lesson :wtf:

Quote:

And regarding the women who follow that: its often times instilled as some bullshit cultural norm.  IF YOU SAY YES YOU'RE A SLUT SO ALWAYS SAY NO.  Fuck THAT shit.





Right, I mean this is silly and undoubtedly the basis for a lot of the issues, and I think we can thank irrational puritanicalism and myth for a lot of this.

As I was saying, I actually believe men and woman are pretty much identical in sexual psychology, behavior, and the differences are cultural rather than natural.  For whatever reason, I seem to be in the minority here, though, and I know many people's understanding of the opposite sex is limited. 

Coming from high school, as a male with relatively liberal sex ed programs, it was always my assumption that my female peers weren't experiencing sexual drive in the manner the males were- that they didn't really have one despite experiencing sexual pleasure in intercourse (a lot of folks, especially women, seem to still believe this, but it seems silly to me).  It just seemed like such a part of reality, as it was such a part of the even relatively modern culture I grew up in, that it was accepted by most kids, I think.

I can imagine this kind of silliness gives rise to problems of self doubt/criticism amongst females that were of the age I was in.  How many of them thought there was something wrong with them or shameful or whatever?  It seems like quite a bit of them felt like that, according to my girlfriends I had relationships with later in college. 


Interesting topic... I think the internet has probably helped folks along this lines, as they can look up information to reassure themselves that they are normal and so forth, that previously youd have to ask a teacher or a friend, whom you might be embarrased to talk to.

btw, what is this from?



I recognize that image but can't remember from where. Was it from one of those motivational classroom pictures or maybe a book cover from school or something?  Just curious


Edited by johnm214 (05/19/11 04:20 PM)


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: johnm214]
    #14479712 - 05/19/11 04:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
btw, what is this from?



I recognize that image but can't remember from where. Was it from one of those motivational classroom pictures or maybe a book cover from school or something?  Just curious




It's the cover of one of the O'Reilly programming books. I have a ton of those books. I always loved that they had animal sketches as their covers.

Here's the one you are inquiring about:


It's a tarsier.

Oh, and rape is wrong simply because it is something that one does to someone else against their will. Plain and simple.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #14479808 - 05/19/11 05:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Oh, my forum avy and siggy? I love it. Its not mine - I just adapted it to a sig and avy. I stumble upon the following picture and was in tears with laughter. So I adopted it as a sig and avy!



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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #14479872 - 05/19/11 05:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Oh, and rape is wrong simply because it is something that one does to someone else against their will. Plain and simple




So does that mean that killing an animal for food is wrong? If not, why is a human's will more valid than an animal's will?


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14479914 - 05/19/11 05:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If I hit you over the head with your consent, that would be a correct action.

But If I hit you over the head while you were unsuspecting and just watching T.V or something, It would be a wrong action, and it would cause emotional trauma, weather it be the temporary trauma that causes you to hit me back, or long term trauma where you think that there will always be someone behind you about to smack you over the head.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14479931 - 05/19/11 05:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

Oh, and rape is wrong simply because it is something that one does to someone else against their will. Plain and simple




So does that mean that killing an animal for food is wrong? If not, why is a human's will more valid than an animal's will?




Neither is more valid. However, killing for food is based on survival.

While raping someone against their will does not contribute to your survival in any way. It only contributes to your personal wants.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #14479946 - 05/19/11 05:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

It's a tarsier.




Don't tarse me, bro!


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: PoopyGonzales]
    #14479948 - 05/19/11 05:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PoopyGonzales said:
If I hit you over the head with your consent, that would be a correct action.

But If I hit you over the head while you were unsuspecting and just watching T.V or something, It would be a wrong action, and it would cause emotional trauma...


:lol:, not necessarily.


--------------------
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #14479955 - 05/19/11 05:47 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

While raping someone against their will (redundant much?) does not contribute to your survival in any way. It only contributes to your personal wants.




And that is why many animals engage in rape. Because they are selfish.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Orium]
    #14479970 - 05/19/11 05:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Orium said:
Oh, my forum avy and siggy? I love it. Its not mine - I just adapted it to a sig and avy. I stumble upon the following picture and was in tears with laughter. So I adopted it as a sig and avy!







It would be funny except on acid one's pupils dilate; they don't constrict to pinpoints.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #14479991 - 05/19/11 05:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlimeyGrimey said:
Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

Oh, and rape is wrong simply because it is something that one does to someone else against their will. Plain and simple




So does that mean that killing an animal for food is wrong? If not, why is a human's will more valid than an animal's will?




Neither is more valid. However, killing for food is based on survival.

While raping someone against their will does not contribute to your survival in any way. It only contributes to your personal wants.




But we can now easily live without consuming meat. Is it wrong to be anything but a vegetarian? Is using leather also wrong?


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14480017 - 05/19/11 06:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

While raping someone against their will (redundant much?) does not contribute to your survival in any way. It only contributes to your personal wants.




And that is why many animals engage in rape. Because they are selfish.




Exactly. That's why the "animals do it" argument is bullshit. Just because something happens in the animal world doesn't make it good.

I've written two 5 page papers today. I've given up on proofreading my posts for the time being, so yeah my statement was redundant.


Quote:

iThink said:
But we can now easily live without consuming meat. Is it wrong to be anything but a vegetarian? Is using leather also wrong?




Killing a plant may destroy the home of an insect. Is that anymore right than destroying a mammal's habitat?

While it is possible to live without eating meat, I wouldn't say it is easy. Meat is the best source of varied proteins for a human. We still have canines after all.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14480020 - 05/19/11 06:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Please don't walk on small plants and insects. :nono:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #14480057 - 05/19/11 06:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Exactly. That's why the "animals do it" argument is bullshit.




I missed the 'why its bullshit part'. Just a declaration followed by another declaration.

Humans ARE animals.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14480077 - 05/19/11 06:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Exactly. That's why the "animals do it" argument is bullshit.




I missed the 'why its bullshit part'. Just a declaration followed by another declaration.

Humans ARE animals.




I am quite aware of the fact that humans are animals. I'm usually the first person to point out the anthropocentric view that humans are somehow different from the rest of the animal kingdom.

The why it's bullshit part was explained in the next sentence.

"Just because something happens in the animal world doesn't make it good."

Since humans are animals that also includes actions that humans do. Just because wild animals other than humans do an act does not make it right for humans to do.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14480090 - 05/19/11 06:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Humans ARE animals.


Oh c'mon OC, we all know humans aren't animals. :monkeydance:


--------------------
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fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #14480146 - 05/19/11 06:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Killing a plant may destroy the home of an insect. Is that anymore right than destroying a mammal's habitat?

While it is possible to live without eating meat, I wouldn't say it is easy. Meat is the best source of varied proteins for a human. We still have canines after all.




It is most definitely relatively "easy" to live without eating meat. You can get plenty of protein from things like soy. With this being said, are you not breaking your own moral code by eating meat, just because it may be a little easier, therefore satisfying your lazy urges?


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14480243 - 05/19/11 06:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

Killing a plant may destroy the home of an insect. Is that anymore right than destroying a mammal's habitat?

While it is possible to live without eating meat, I wouldn't say it is easy. Meat is the best source of varied proteins for a human. We still have canines after all.




It is most definitely relatively "easy" to live without eating meat. You can get plenty of protein from things like soy.



The Downside of Soybean Consumption | American Nutrition Association
Quote:

The Downside of Soybean Consumption
Soy consumption is being promoted vigorously. Despite many alleged benefits, there is a downside, which is being ignored.

The raw soybean contains numerous anti-nutrients. Although processing can reduce them, it does not eliminate them.1 The raw soybean is an anti-coagulant (an agent that prevents blood clotting). The anti-coagulant property is not reversed by vitamin K, which is a highly effective blood-clotting agent. Green leafy vegetables and liver are excellent sources of vitamin K. Many Americans are low in vitamin K. Soy’s anti-coagulant property is attributed to its anti-trypsin activity. Trypsin is a special enzyme needed to digest protein. In addition, trypsin allows vitamin B12 to be assimilated. Thus, by blocking trypsin activity, the soybean, as an anti-trypsin agent, increases the requirements for vitamin B12 and actually creates vitamin B12 deficiency.2

The raw soybean contains other anti-nutrients, including phytic acid (from phytates), which binds and prevents mineral absorption (especially zinc, calcium, and magnesium).3 Phytic acid is present in grains, too. Thus, vegetarians who depend on soybeans and many soy-containing products, as well as phytate-containing grains, are at even higher risk of deficiencies of these minerals.4 Phytates are present in plant foods but not in animal foods.

Hemagglutinins are also anti-nutrients in the raw soybean. These substances have an ability to agglutinate (clump together) the red blood cells in humans and in other animal species, and significantly suppress growth. These anti-nutrients are known also as "phytoagglutinins" or "lectins."5

These various anti-nutrients present in the raw soybean can be reduced somewhat by proper heat treatment or by sprouting. However, the substances will still be present, albeit at lower levels. The only satisfactory method known at present to deactivate these anti-nutrients is by use of traditional fermentation. This process involves a slow chemical change, triggered by bacteria, molds, and yeast. Fermentation deactivates the enzyme inhibitors, trypsin inhibitor, phytic acid, hemagglutinins, and vitamin antagonists present in raw soybeans. The fermentation process renders the nutrients in soybeans more available and digestible.

Unfortunately, the fermentation process is used with only a few soybean products, and ones that are not especially familiar in the American cuisine, nor readily available. The main fermented soybean products are tempeh (a soybean-based entree), miso (a soybean paste used in soups and sauces), and natto (fermented whole soybeans). Tempeh and miso are available in many health/natural food stores in the United States. Natto, common in Japan, is unfamiliar and unavailable to most Americans. Natto is reported to have a strong odor, a sticky texture, and generally is not favored by novices. Because miso is used merely as a flavoring, the sole fermented soybean food that is an acceptable dish is tempeh.

Contrary to popular notions, soybean products such as tofu and bean curd—familiar and available to Americans—are not fermented. Rather they are processed by precipitation. This method deactivates some but not all of the anti-enzyme agents, and deactivates only a little of the phytates.

Soybeans, even processed ones, have anti-thyroid properties.6 The estrogenic isoflavones (particular plant pigments) in soy—genistein and daidzein—are much touted for their health benefits. What is unpublicized is that they are anti-thyroid agents. Individuals who consume soybean products habitually (the recommendation currently in vogue) may encounter long-range thyroid disturbances. Animal studies relate the isoflavones in soy to thyroid disorders, including goiter. Other studies relate soybean consumption not only to hypothyroidism, but also to low energy levels, poor mineral absorption, and infertility.7

Even at exceedingly low levels, hormones can exert profound biological effects, either beneficial or detrimental. The estrogenic isoflavones in soy are being promoted enthusiastically as health promoters. Although they appear to prevent breast cancer if supplied early, they may promote breast cancer at a later stage in life. Both human and animal studies suggest that soy may increase the risk of breast cancer.8,9,10,11

Frequently, studies are cited of the low breast cancer rate of Asian women who consume soy. However, confounding dietary factors must be considered. Asian women who forsake their traditional diets and embrace the Western diet increase their risk of breast cancer. Soy cannot be singled out as the sole factor.

How beneficial are soy products being offered to Americans? The anti-nutrients in modern soy products, including soy flour, can inhibit animal growth. In humans, they can cause intestinal problems, reduce protein digestion, and lead to chronic deficiencies in the uptake of amino acids.12,13

Soy contains a high amount of fatty acids, which turn rancid rapidly when the soybean is converted into soy flour. Full-fat soy flour is especially prone to such deterioration, and has a disagreeable taste that is difficult to mask. Rancid foods are toxic, and should be avoided.

Textured soy protein, an inexpensive filler, became popular at one time as a hamburger extender. Presently, it is used extensively in processed foods, despite the fact that it contains anti-nutrients.

Protein isolates from soy are used in powder mixes intended for meal-replacement drinks.14 These isolates are obtained by means of a high-temperature process that denatures the protein extensively. In its damaged form, the protein is rendered low in nutritional value. Soy protein (and other protein isolates) cause negative calcium balance in humans and other animals and can contribute to the development of osteoporosis. The soy protein isolates are still high in mineral-blocking phytates, thyroid-depressing phytoestrogens, and potent enzyme inhibitors.15 Also, the high heat used in processing the isolates has been reported to increase the likelihood of forming carcinogenic compounds.16,17

Soy "milk" is used as a cow’s milk replacer, and is marketed for the general population.18 Also, it is used as a substitute for cow’s milk in infant feeding formulas intended for babies who are allergic to cow’s milk. Soy milk is not the equivalent of milk from humans (or from cows, goats, or sheep). Soy milk has several undesirable features when used in infant feeding formulas.19 Soy can exert adverse effects on the hormonal development of infants.20,21,22 Soy milk formula is devoid of cholesterol, a vital substance for proper development of the brain and central nervous system in infants. A study of infants fed soy formula showed a concentration of estrogenic compounds as much as 22,000 times higher than those in human breast milk or in milk-based formula. This startling finding caused speculation in the New Zealand Medical Journal that such an overload of estrogen in infants might result in precocious development of breast and secondary sex characteristics in very young females. In addition, it raised concerns that such an overload might result in male organs not developing normally at puberty.23,24

Soybean oil is likely to be partially hydrogenated. This processing results in the formation of undesirable, unhealthy trans fatty acids in the oil, and in food products made with soybean oil. To date, the vital information about trans fatty acids is not included in the "Nutrition Facts" panel of food labels. Soybean oil, as well as other soybean fractions, also may be from genetically altered soybeans.

Frequently, the soybean has been touted as a "complete" protein from a plant-derived food. Although the soybean may have a better nutritional profile than other beans, still it is low in some essential amino acids. Thus, it is an unbalanced, incomplete source of protein. Only when beans, including soybeans, are supplemented with some complete and balanced protein from an animal-derived food, can the combination achieve the status of being a complete protein food, with all essential amino acids present, and in a good state of balance.

At present, soy is among the major food allergens in the American diet. Individuals of all ages have developed soy allergies, attributable to the proliferation of soy and soy constituents in many commercially formulated products. Since the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved a health claim for soy25, more than another thousand new soy-containing products are predicted to flood the marketplace, in addition to the existing plethora. Infants fed soy milk formulas in order to avoid cow’s milk allergy, frequently develop allergy to soy. As soy is promoted aggressively and is available in increasing numbers of food and beverage products, the numbers of soy-allergic individuals are likely to increase, from lifetime over-consumption.

It is difficult to avoid soy and soy constituents unless one chooses basic foods and avoids processed ones. Even then, some soy gets into the diet, indirectly, from soy constituents in the feed of farm animal and farmed fish (in aquaculture).

The soy health claim now permitted is based on 25 grams of soy protein daily, alleged to reduce the risk of heart disease.25 Such a daily overload of soy inevitably increases the risk for soy allergenicity. The FDA determined that diets with four daily servings of soy protein can reduce levels of low-density lipoproteins (LDLs). Four daily servings of soy protein will promote the risk of more allergenic reactions. Also, they replace high-quality protein foods that have no anti-nutrients, with low-quality protein foods that have many anti-nutrients. In addition, the recommendation narrows the food base and negates the sound principle of choosing from as wide a variety of foods as possible.

FDA’s approval of the health claim for soy protein was in response to a petition by a leading soy producer. The soybean lobby exerts powerful clout. In addition, food and beverage processors favor soybean use because it is a low-cost filler, extender, and replacer in foods for humans and in feed for animal. It is a cost cutter that swells profits.

In view of the overall evidence against soy, is the health claim justified? Previous health claims have been approved in response to commercial interests and similarly based on highly selective evidence. One critic, Tom Valentine, observed in True Health that "no other dietary staple has so many anti-nutrient drawbacks as soy. Conversely, no other food has so many public relations firms and lobbyists working for it."

Despite the present popularity of the soybean, it is being threatened by a rival—mycoprotein. Single cell proteins, derived from bacteria, yeast, or fungi, are inexpensive meat alternatives. Mycoprotein, approved in many other countries, has been under FDA scrutiny for years. Now, the agency appears poised to approve its use in food and feed. Like the soybean, mycoprotein is touted for its functional, nutritional, and chemical benefits. Its imminent approval may launch a new food revolution. It is truly a new food constituent and will transfer food from being grown on the land to being produced in the laboratory. The soybean may be toppled.




--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Poid]
    #14480276 - 05/19/11 06:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

All those anti-nutrients are but a small cost to pay for the moral treatment of all living beings!


But seriously, I change my hypothetical to whey protein instead of soy.


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Edited by iThink (05/19/11 06:42 PM)


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14480284 - 05/19/11 06:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

You can get plenty of protein from things like soy.




You can't eat fruits and vegetables without killing bacteria - which are animals.

Case closed.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14480292 - 05/19/11 06:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
All those anti-nutrients are but a small cost to pay for the moral treatment of all living beings!


But seriously, I change my hypothetical to whey protein instead of soy.




'Following The Whey' sounds better than 'Following The Soy'. :yesnod:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14480324 - 05/19/11 06:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
But seriously, I change my hypothetical to whey protein instead of soy.


I'm pretty sure animal meat contains vitamins/nutrients other than protein.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


Edited by Poid (04/19/12 05:25 AM)


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14480343 - 05/19/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

You can get plenty of protein from things like soy.




You can't eat fruits and vegetables without killing bacteria - which are animals.

Case closed.




you can relocate the bacteria.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Poid]
    #14480353 - 05/19/11 06:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Native Inuits lived on nothing but fish and seal/whale/walrus blubber and meat with nary a vegetable and had a very low incidence of heart disease.

This flies in the face of modern nutrition theory.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 1983]
    #14480359 - 05/19/11 06:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure pesticides are still widely in use these days. :wink:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Poid]
    #14480374 - 05/19/11 07:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

iThink said:
But seriously, I change my hypothetical to whey protein instead of soy.


I'm pretty sure animal meat contains vitamins/nutrients other than protein




I'm sure you can get those other nutrients in "moral" ways.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14480375 - 05/19/11 07:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Native Inuits lived on nothing but fish and seal/whale/walrus blubber and meat with nary a vegetable and had a very low incidence of heart disease.

This flies in the face of modern nutrition theory.


They most likely were genetically adapted for such a diet, similarly to how Tibetans are genetically adapted to be able to breathe comfortably at high altitudes.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14480392 - 05/19/11 07:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

iThink said:
But seriously, I change my hypothetical to whey protein instead of soy.


I'm pretty sure animal meat contains vitamins/nutrients other than protein




I'm sure you can get those other nutrients in "moral" ways.


Possibly, but it's much more practical to do it the old-fashioned way..IMO, being "moral" doesn't mean that you make yourself suffer, or that you can't enjoy convenient pleasure.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Poid]
    #14480408 - 05/19/11 07:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

iThink said:
But seriously, I change my hypothetical to whey protein instead of soy.


I'm pretty sure animal meat contains vitamins/nutrients other than protein




I'm sure you can get those other nutrients in "moral" ways.


Possibly, but it's much more practical to do it the old-fashioned way..IMO, being "moral" doesn't mean that you make yourself suffer, or that you can't enjoy convenient pleasure.




Yes, but you are one of those people who realized that no morality has objective merit.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14480430 - 05/19/11 07:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Oh yeah. :tongue:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744] * 1
    #14480435 - 05/19/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

But morality CAN have a majority communal subjective merit, which is the next best thing.


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Diploid]
    #14480554 - 05/19/11 07:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
But morality CAN have a majority communal subjective merit, which is the next best thing.




That is true, and luckily most general morality benefits me.


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Invisible1983
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14480583 - 05/19/11 07:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Lucky for whom?


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 1983]
    #14480591 - 05/19/11 07:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

1983 said:
Lucky for whom?




The sentence is clear in implying that it is lucky for me.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 4896744]
    #14480627 - 05/19/11 07:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quite clear, as a matter of fact..maybe he's trying to foreshadow or someshit. :omgz:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14481007 - 05/19/11 09:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

You can get plenty of protein from things like soy.




You can't eat fruits and vegetables without killing bacteria - which are animals.






Dude, bacteria aren't animals...


--------------------
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #14481047 - 05/19/11 09:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

They are (micro)organisms, though..that's probably what he meant.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Poid]
    #14482338 - 05/20/11 01:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Uuuh, question: why are we even arguing whether or not animals do something that is a human only action?

Consent is a human construct. Animals can't consent in the way we do. And as such they can't really rape... I think we should leave the animals out of this becase they do not apply to our social standards... at least that's how I see it.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Orium]
    #14482772 - 05/20/11 04:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The cunstruct of rape by a litigious society of ballbusting women fueled by their rage at anything with a penis is out of hand. 

Just sayin...


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #14482965 - 05/20/11 06:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
The cunstruct of rape by a litigious society of ballbusting women fueled by their rage at anything with a penis is out of hand. 



For some it might be that way, but as i mentioned earlier in the thread i have had small group discussions about rape and 2 of the chicks (women) in the group had been raped and it's a traumatic experience.  It's different for a chick. they are weaker than men when they are raped it's almost as if they're helpless.  It also makes them feel as if they're a whore at the same time.  It's really fucking complicated but raping is just not the physical act, you are also raping their mind.  Chicks that have been raped tend to be at a much higher chance of being bat shit fucking crazy then those who haven't.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #14483327 - 05/20/11 08:27 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
The cunstruct of rape by a litigious society of ballbusting women fueled by their rage at anything with a penis is out of hand. 



For some it might be that way, but as i mentioned earlier in the thread i have had small group discussions about rape and 2 of the chicks (women) in the group had been raped and it's a traumatic experience.  It's different for a chick. they are weaker than men when they are raped it's almost as if they're helpless.  It also makes them feel as if they're a whore at the same time.  It's really fucking complicated but raping is just not the physical act, you are also raping their mind.  Chicks that have been raped tend to be at a much higher chance of being bat shit fucking crazy then those who haven't.




Well what I don't get then is all the play rape stuff.  The rough stuff.  The whips and shit like that.  Strangle till they almost die type stuff.  Which some chicks dig.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #14483447 - 05/20/11 09:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I don't know, I always figured it was tied in with cultural repression of sexuality.  Not just women, but women are probably more prone to it given the particular societal burdens/norms that treat women sexuality a bit uncomfortably and the expectation that they should be hard to get, pure, not have many parterns, et cet.

Many women feel conflicted about their sexuality, their upbringing and cultural norms telling them its something that should be suppressed and not something that should be expressed with anyone other than perhaps a husband in private.

When they are dominated sexually, it can probably fulfill a psychological need to attribute the sexual behavior to their partner, rather than them.  Many women like to feel dominated in sexual situations, and I'd imagine the whips and choking and all that is just a further point on the same spectrum that fulfills the same need.

I would expect the exact same to thing to explain why some male's like that stuff too.  Uncomfortable with their own sexuality they seek out such relationships where they don't have to feel "dirty" or "perverted" in seeking sex, which they regard with aprehnsion, disgust, and shame.  When whipped or dominated by a woman, they don't need to own their own desire and sexuality- they are just a passive object, not participating, or only fulfilling the needs of someone else, hence lessening the dissonance experienced between their sexual needs and psychological aversion.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Orium]
    #14484032 - 05/20/11 11:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Orium said:
Consent is a human construct.


Other animals can consent to things, like for example when my cat consents to being pet.


Quote:

Orium said:
And as such they can't really rape...


Yes they can, and they do.


Quote:

Orium said:
I think we should leave the animals out of this becase they do not apply to our social standards... at least that's how I see it.


Whose social standards in particular are you speaking about?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Poid]
    #14484196 - 05/20/11 12:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Orium said:
Consent is a human construct.


Other animals can consent to things, like for example when my cat consents to being pet.





I don't think this would be the case per the relevant definition of consent in rape cases.  Generally the consent, where such is required, must be knowing and informed consideration of the choices available and the likely reprocussions by a person with sufficient faculties to make the decision at the time in question. 

It would seem unlikely that your cat could meet this standard- whatever the wisdom of it. 



Quote:

Quote:

Orium said:
And as such they can't really rape...


Yes they can, and they do.





Well, there's examples of forceful intercourse and apparent reluctance from one of the partners, but it would be difficult to meet the standards set out above.  Large cats have often violent encounters during intercourse yet continue for hours, returning again.  Despite the apparent reluctance at certain points, they continue.  Had they nought, it might falsely seem there was no consent.  This behavior probably has to do with the whole spiked penis thing though, lol



Quote:

Quote:

Orium said:
I think we should leave the animals out of this becase they do not apply to our social standards... at least that's how I see it.


Whose social standards in particular are you speaking about?




I would imagine she's referring the standards of consent discussed above.

I agree that bringing animals into it isn't helpful.  At best it seems to be a naturalistic fallacy.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: johnm214]
    #14484690 - 05/20/11 02:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I agree that bringing animals into it isn't helpful.  At best it seems to be a naturalistic fallacy.




Other animals don't see this as a fallacy. :shrug:


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14484756 - 05/20/11 02:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I agree that bringing animals into it isn't helpful.  At best it seems to be a naturalistic fallacy.




Other animals don't see this as a fallacy. :shrug:



You been talking to them, have you?  How nice.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14485793 - 05/20/11 06:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Orium said:
Consent is a human construct.


Other animals can consent to things, like for example when my cat consents to being pet.





I don't think this would be the case per the relevant definition of consent in rape cases.  Generally the consent, where such is required, must be knowing and informed consideration of the choices available and the likely reprocussions by a person with sufficient faculties to make the decision at the time in question. 

It would seem unlikely that your cat could meet this standard- whatever the wisdom of it.


Yeah, I guess you're right. :thumbup:


Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Quote:

Orium said:
And as such they can't really rape...


Yes they can, and they do.





Well, there's examples of forceful intercourse and apparent reluctance from one of the partners, but it would be difficult to meet the standards set out above.  Large cats have often violent encounters during intercourse yet continue for hours, returning again.  Despite the apparent reluctance at certain points, they continue.  Had they nought, it might falsely seem there was no consent.  This behavior probably has to do with the whole spiked penis thing though, lol


Yeah, their penises are barbed. :omgz:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I agree that bringing animals into it isn't helpful.  At best it seems to be a naturalistic fallacy.




Other animals don't see this as a fallacy. :shrug:



You been talking to them, have you?  How nice.


I used to talk to my old parrot, Poid, and he used to talk back! :smile2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19998261 - 05/16/14 03:35 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
One of the most-oft-used arguments around here is 'because it is found in nature'.

Example 1: Is homosexuality wrong? No, because animals do it.

Example 2: Cannabis and/or magic mushrooms are way better than synthetic drugs like 2C-E because they are natural.

I contend the 'it is found in nature' argument must be applied equally to all topics or abolished altogether.





Homosexuality in general doesn't violate free will; the partners agree

Cannabis and magic mushrooms growing don't violate anyone's security or free will either... they don't grow out the ground and attack you

Rape may be found in nature, but it is a violation of free will. There's no consent...

The 'found in nature' argument doesn't hold for this one - it doesn't need to apply to everything or be abolished, either: things happen in the natural world that destroys and hurts life, too, like animals hunting and killing other animals. It's what it is but its not exactly pleasant for the victim. It hurts life.


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Edited by 7Richard (05/16/14 03:37 PM)


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: 7Richard]
    #19998375 - 05/16/14 03:58 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Rape is bad mmkay?

It's an act of pure selfishness against another who has no say in the matter. It's torture to those who have had it happen to them.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: ScottyPs]
    #19998410 - 05/16/14 04:06 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

You's postin in an old troll thread


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Uzziel]
    #19998463 - 05/16/14 04:18 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:
You's postin in an old troll thread




Fargone is an old troll?


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19998627 - 05/16/14 04:58 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

The first  two dont have unwilling victims


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Uzziel]
    #19998645 - 05/16/14 05:04 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:
You's postin in an old troll thread



I think you might be also.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #19998672 - 05/16/14 05:11 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Your keen observation is astounding. We need to get you into security watch with that kind of aptitude!




Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

Uzziel said:
You's postin in an old troll thread




Fargone is an old troll?




He could be a young one, but I like to think of him as an old one. He reminds me of the drunken old man who wants to have a good debate and has some good words to say, but is drunk as fuck, so you know how that goes!

........Or do you?


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Uzziel]
    #19998752 - 05/16/14 05:38 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:
Your keen observation is astounding. We need to get you into security watch with that kind of aptitude!




Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

Uzziel said:
You's postin in an old troll thread




Fargone is an old troll?




He could be a young one, but I like to think of him as an old one. He reminds me of the drunken old man who wants to have a good debate and has some good words to say, but is drunk as fuck, so you know how that goes!

........Or do you?




I like to think of him as a young man, because then he doesn't seem quite as old.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Uzziel]
    #19999054 - 05/16/14 07:17 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:
Your keen observation is astounding. We need to get you into security watch with that kind of aptitude!




Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

Uzziel said:
You's postin in an old troll thread




Fargone is an old troll?




He could be a young one, but I like to think of him as an old one. He reminds me of the drunken old man who wants to have a good debate and has some good words to say, but is drunk as fuck, so you know how that goes!

........Or do you?





Uzziel, please stick to the merits of the argument and don't make insulting comments about other members such as calling members old trolls.

Consider this a warning.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: johnm214] * 1
    #19999675 - 05/16/14 09:55 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Whatever you say John. I can't believe we even have to stick to the "merits" of the argument of why rape is bad when this whole thread is just to provoke responses.

As if forcing yourself upon someone, putting them in a uncomfortable position and potential harming their body has any good to it. Not to mention any psychological effect the victim has upon them from being unable to trust people and afraid to be alone and around people they don't know.

I mean is this shit not obvious? I also don't see why I can't tell someone off for bumping a 3 year old thread to post something so short.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Uzziel]
    #20003037 - 05/17/14 08:14 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:
Whatever you say John. I can't believe we even have to stick to the "merits" of the argument of why rape is bad when this whole thread is just to provoke responses.




Believe it or not, those are the rules.


Quote:


As if forcing yourself upon someone, putting them in a uncomfortable position and potential harming their body has any good to it.




Of course it has good to it.  The person commiting the act surely was motivated for some reason, and fulfilling that desire is a good.  Further, all sorts of other positives may come about, children being conceived, bad people being killed, et cet.  But none of this has anything to do with what the rules say about personal attacks.


Quote:

I mean is this shit not obvious? I also don't see why I can't tell someone off for bumping a 3 year old thread to post something so short.





You were warned for what you said about Orgone, not what you said about the thread bumper.  As with most things in this forum, you certainly can address that point if you want, you just can't make irrelevant derogatory personal comments.


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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: johnm214] * 1
    #20003076 - 05/17/14 08:25 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Oh fucking golly gee wizz, calling OC a troll is hardly "insulting" and I find it amusing you made half your post about it when I even attempted to make a "serious" post. It was a light comment not to be taken seriously.

Hell, Rose told me all the posts in here are "trolls" to evoke responses from people. Now I have two mods telling me two different things, who do I go by? Oh no, mod discretion is winning here, I am so confused! :smirk:

Rape isn't good period, I don't agree with your sentiment that it's even good for the raper to fulfill such a desire. Afterall, he might just meet a fucking deranged person who'd torture him for weeks on end.

He might fulfill his desire, but fulfilling a dangerous desire is only briefly satisfying. Can you even call that GOOD? That takes away the entire notion of the word good. It isn't good. It is satisfying, but satisfying isn't notionally good, because you pointed it out: Fucked up people do fucked up shit and it satisfies them. Is that good? Nope.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Uzziel]
    #20003111 - 05/17/14 08:37 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Take your complaints about the moderating to another thread or to my journal. Leave this thread for discussion of the topic.


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: johnm214]
    #20003191 - 05/17/14 09:01 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

I am not complaining about the moderating and I am discussing the topic, I gave a response which you completely ignored in responding but thanks for the tip


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Offlinespawm
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Uzziel]
    #20005814 - 05/18/14 02:09 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

because you don't own the woman or man.
what do I win?
ive been raped before. they shoved a catheter up my penis the doctors did and choked me.


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Offlinesquat
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: spawm]
    #20007572 - 05/18/14 10:32 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

If OP feels rape is not wrong, I hope OP is either raped or his loved one is raped. Maybe then he will understand.


My girlfriend was dosed with LSD then raped. She got pregnant, had the child, and has been a wonderful mother ever since. But her experience was horrifying and she never met the father.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: squat]
    #20007812 - 05/18/14 11:41 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Despite your negative fantasies, an intelligent reader would realize this topic had nothing to do with rape and everything to do with the 'it's natural' fallacy.

Not surprising that you missed the obvious. :ohwell:


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: Uzziel]
    #20008578 - 05/19/14 05:18 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:
I am not complaining about the moderating and I am discussing the topic,





Ok, well then cut out whatever it is you call this:

Oh fucking golly gee wizz, calling OC a troll is hardly "insulting" and I find it amusing you made half your post about it when I even attempted to make a "serious" post. It was a light comment not to be taken seriously.

Hell, Rose told me all the posts in here are "trolls" to evoke responses from people. Now I have two mods telling me two different things, who do I go by? Oh no, mod discretion is winning here, I am so confused! :smirk:



Take it to a feedback thread or my journal, I'm not discussing this here and don't want others to do so either.  Thanks.



Quote:

I gave a response which you completely ignored in responding but thanks for the tip




The problem isn't that you didn't address the topic, its that you introduced other issues not relevant to the topic- moderator inconsistanties et cet.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Why is rape wrong? [Re: johnm214]
    #20008715 - 05/19/14 07:04 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I don't know, I always figured it was tied in with cultural repression of sexuality.  Not just women, but women are probably more prone to it given the particular societal burdens/norms that treat women sexuality a bit uncomfortably and the expectation that they should be hard to get, pure, not have many parterns, et cet.

Many women feel conflicted about their sexuality, their upbringing and cultural norms telling them its something that should be suppressed and not something that should be expressed with anyone other than perhaps a husband in private.

When they are dominated sexually, it can probably fulfill a psychological need to attribute the sexual behavior to their partner, rather than them.  Many women like to feel dominated in sexual situations, and I'd imagine the whips and choking and all that is just a further point on the same spectrum that fulfills the same need.

I would expect the exact same to thing to explain why some male's like that stuff too.  Uncomfortable with their own sexuality they seek out such relationships where they don't have to feel "dirty" or "perverted" in seeking sex, which they regard with aprehnsion, disgust, and shame.  When whipped or dominated by a woman, they don't need to own their own desire and sexuality- they are just a passive object, not participating, or only fulfilling the needs of someone else, hence lessening the dissonance experienced between their sexual needs and psychological aversion.




:thumbup:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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