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Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
Loc: Denver, CO Flag
Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches
    #14467092 - 05/17/11 09:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches

Officers may break in if they hear sounds and suspect that evidence is being destroyed, the justices say in an 8-1 decision. Justice Ginsburg dissents.

By David G. Savage, Washington Bureau

May 17, 2011
Reporting from Washington—
The Supreme Court gave police more leeway to break into homes or apartments in search of illegal drugs when they suspect the evidence otherwise might be destroyed.

Ruling in a Kentucky case Monday, the justices said that officers who smell marijuana and loudly knock on the door may break in if they hear sounds that suggest the residents are scurrying to hide the drugs.

Residents who "attempt to destroy evidence have only themselves to blame" when police burst in, said Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. for an 8-1 majority.

In her dissent, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said she feared the ruling gave police an easy way to ignore 4th Amendment protections against unreasonable searches and seizures. She said the amendment's "core requirement" is that officers have probable cause and a search warrant before they break into a house.

"How 'secure' do our homes remain if police, armed with no warrant, can pound on doors at will and …forcibly enter?" Ginsburg asked.

An expert on criminal searches said the decision would encourage the police to undertake "knock and talk" raids.

"I'm surprised the Supreme Court would condone this, that if the police hear suspicious noises inside, they can break in. I'm even more surprised that nearly all of them went along," said John Wesley Hall, a criminal defense lawyer in Little Rock, Ark.

In the past, the court has insisted that homes are special preserves. As Alito said, "The 4th Amendment has drawn a firm line at the entrance to the house." One exception to the search warrant rule involves an emergency, such as screams coming from a house. Police may also pursue a fleeing suspect who enters a residence.

The Kentucky case began when police in Lexington sought to arrest a man who had sold crack cocaine to an informer. They followed the man to an apartment building, but lost contact with him. They smelled marijuana coming from one apartment. Though it turned out not to be the apartment of their suspect, they pounded on the door, called, "Police," and heard people moving inside.

At this, the officers announced they were coming in and broke down the door. Instead of the original suspect, they found Hollis King smoking marijuana and arrested him. They also found powder cocaine. King was convicted of drug trafficking and sentenced to 11 years in prison.

The Supreme Court ruled in Kentucky vs. King that the officers' conduct "was entirely lawful," and they were justified in breaking in to prevent the destruction of the evidence.

"When law enforcement officers who are not armed with a warrant knock on a door, they do no more than any private citizen may do," Alito wrote. A resident need not respond, he added. But the sounds of people moving and perhaps toilets being flushed could justify police entering without a warrant.

The ruling was not a final loss for King. The justices said the Kentucky state court should consider again whether police had faced an emergency situation in this case.

david.savage@latimes.com

Copyright © 2011, Los Angeles Times

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-court-search-20110517,0,6746878.story

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OfflineDoDahDay
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Registered: 10/10/10
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Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14467173 - 05/17/11 10:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Kind of makes it not worth living anymore. Might as well just set up a prison for all of us to live in. How could they rule so blatently against our constitutional rights? Its just like the nypd having people empty their pockets to charge them for crimes they didnt commit.


--------------------
"I fart in your general direction!  Your mother was a hampster and your father smelt of elderberries!"

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Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
Loc: Denver, CO Flag
Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: DoDahDay]
    #14467228 - 05/17/11 10:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well, it's better than Indiana where they state pretty clearly that police should be able to just barge right into your house.

Quote:

Indiana High Court Says No Right to Resist Illegal Police Entry

By Jon E. Dougherty at 14 May 13:52

(Newsroom America) -- The Indiana Supreme Court ruled Friday that state residents have no right to resist an illegal police entry, overturning a Common Law that dates back to the English Magna Carta of 1215.

Writing for the court's 3-2 majority, Justice Steven David said if a police officer wanted to enter a home for any reason - or for no reason - homeowners could do nothing to block the officer's entry.

"We believe ... a right to resist an unlawful police entry into a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence," David wrote, according to the Northwest Indiana Times. "We also find that allowing resistance unnecessarily escalates the level of violence and therefore the risk of injuries to all parties involved without preventing the arrest."

He said persons arrested after an illegal police entry are still entitled to post bail and can seek remedies through the legal system.

The ruling stems from a case involving an argument between a husband and wife that took place outside of their apartment, the report said. When police arrived, they both went back inside and the husband told officers they weren't needed.

When one officer tried to enter the apartment the husband attempted to block him. An officer entered anyway and the husband then shoved him against a wall, prompting a second officer to use a stun gun on the husband and arrest him.

Ivan Bodensteiner, a professor at the Valparaiso University School of Law, said he agreed with the court's decision, the report said.

"It's not surprising that they would say there's no right to beat the hell out of the officer," he told the paper. "(The court is saying) we would rather opt on the side of saying if the police act wrongfully in entering your house your remedy is under law, to bring a civil action against the officer."

Justices Robert Rucker and Brent Dickson dissented, saying the ruling violates the U.S. Constitution's Fourth Amendment.

"In my view the majority sweeps with far too broad a brush by essentially telling Indiana citizens that government agents may now enter their homes illegally -- that is, without the necessity of a warrant, consent or exigent circumstances. I disagree," Rucker wrote, according to the report.

© 2010 Newsroom America.

http://www.newsroomamerica.com/story/129056/indiana_high_court_says_no_





It's still disgusting. Only one justice on the panel arguing the constitutionality of this issue. The War on Drugs is really transforming our nation into a police state.


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Offlinelimestoneman
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Registered: 04/09/11
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Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14467294 - 05/17/11 10:39 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I can't believe I'm paying tax dollars against my will to fund the supreme court so they can scheme and devise loopholes in the constitution. Fuck you guys, I'm going... somewhere else

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Invisiblelostinbq
Clap...or we will find u!!!!


Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 525
Loc: ZombieLand Flag
Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: limestoneman]
    #14467381 - 05/17/11 11:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

so i guess if im listening to music loud, taking a shit, and don't hear the door but they hear the toilet they come busting in i shoot 1(cos i did not kno:shrug:)thinking im being robbed, cos that shit happens every day(not the shooting of the leo but the robberies) all while i am defending my rights will be a fucked up situation. cos lets face it the regular beat cops are not swat coming to serve a warrant, there just clumsy loud ass cops doing fucked up things having fucked up things happen. let them come to take my guns, or other possessions, silver/gold when that time comes. and the other fucked up thing is that the cops in this little town act like super troopers with nothing better to do than harass you driving down the street, stopping to get some trash bags from DG trying to find shit or a reason to lock u up. like other dude said, fuck this country im moving to an isolated area barley un touched by modern governments or to a place that just dont give a fuck.

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OfflineMikeallojee
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Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: lostinbq]
    #14467610 - 05/17/11 12:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Flash mob time! When and where?

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OfflineAUX
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Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 661
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: Mikeallojee]
    #14467905 - 05/17/11 01:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

How do we protest something like this?

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Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
Loc: Denver, CO Flag
Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: AUX] * 1
    #14468020 - 05/17/11 01:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

How do the sounds of people moving and toilets being flushed immediately equate to drugs being hidden?

Cop knocks on the door; you're on the john; he's breaking in!
Cop knocks on the door; you get up to answer; he's breaking in!

Ridiculous.


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Invisiblelostinbq
Clap...or we will find u!!!!


Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 525
Loc: ZombieLand Flag
Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14468112 - 05/17/11 02:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:shrug:

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: DoDahDay] * 2
    #14468296 - 05/17/11 02:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DoDahDay said:
Kind of makes it not worth living anymore.





It is still worth living, but if you are concerned about this you could get a steel front door and steel door frame so they need to bang on it for 15 minutes or so before it gives way.

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Offline2jew4u
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Registered: 04/07/11
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Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #14468411 - 05/17/11 03:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

DoDahDay said:
Kind of makes it not worth living anymore.





It is still worth living, but if you are concerned about this you could get a steel front door and steel door frame so they need to bang on it for 15 minutes or so before it gives way.




Lol backed up with a shot gun loaded with nails- Mad max anyone

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Offlinefungivore
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Registered: 12/10/05
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Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #14468632 - 05/17/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

DoDahDay said:
Kind of makes it not worth living anymore.





It is still worth living, but if you are concerned about this you could get a steel front door and steel door frame so they need to bang on it for 15 minutes or so before it gives way.




I likes that idea!


--------------------
"His job is to shed light
And not to master."

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: fungivore] * 1
    #14468674 - 05/17/11 04:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fungivore said:
I likes that idea!





Free Radio Austin used that idea and it was very helpful when they were raided by the FCC in 2001.

There is a dramatic MP3 of the last 5 minutes that the station transmitted - It starts out with deafeningly loud knocks on the door, and shouts of "FCC, open up!".  The DJ says "I would like to see the warrant!", so they keep banging on the steel door and he keeps asking to see the warrant.  They were finally able to pound it open with a battering ram, but not until everyone in the community was aware of the raid.

100 people showed up to harass the FCC, it was a huge protest instead of a quick raid.  One guy was filming it and the feds told him that they were going to arrest him if he did not put the video camera down.  He said "I will know that is true when you slap the handcuffs on me."  Of course they were bluffing, it is legal to film a government employee when he is on the job (in most states).   

The transmitter was encased in concrete and buried in a pressure cooker 8 feet below the station.  The feds were there for hours with shovels digging it up.

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Invisiblefloatindownsligo
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Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: fungivore]
    #14468688 - 05/17/11 04:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

are there any laws regarding how 'fortified' one could make their home dwellings? :smile:


--------------------
the meaning of life is to live it

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InvisibleWise Toad
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Registered: 06/08/10
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Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #14468716 - 05/17/11 04:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

2jew4u said:
Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

DoDahDay said:
Kind of makes it not worth living anymore.





It is still worth living, but if you are concerned about this you could get a steel front door and steel door frame so they need to bang on it for 15 minutes or so before it gives way.




Lol backed up with a shot gun loaded with nails- Mad max anyone




Sounds good, if everyone does this all the dead pigs will have noone to blame but themselves for breaking into a well guarded home. This is how you protest a ridiculous law

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
The transmitter was encased in concrete and buried in a pressure cooker 8 feet below the station.  The feds were there for hours with shovels digging it up.




A pressure cooker you say, were any mushrooms found?

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: Wise Toad]
    #14468735 - 05/17/11 04:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

floatindownsligo said:
are there any laws regarding how 'fortified' one could make their home dwellings? :smile:





No.

Quote:

Wise Toad said:
Quote:

2jew4u said:
Lol backed up with a shot gun loaded with nails- Mad max anyone




Sounds good, if everyone does this all the dead pigs will have noone to blame but themselves for breaking into a well guarded home. This is how you protest a ridiculous law




Doing that will probably get you shot.  If you live you will get murder charges.

Quote:

A pressure cooker you say, were any mushrooms found?




No.

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Invisiblefloatindownsligo
dandelion juice
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Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 118
Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #14468760 - 05/17/11 04:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So if one were to construct a 2 ft thick metal box with vault doors at every single entrance and window, along with an announced "ARMED alarm security" would the owner get in trouble if their home were to harm the police if they were trespassing?


--------------------
the meaning of life is to live it

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OfflineGrok
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Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #14468950 - 05/17/11 05:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

floatindownsligo said:
are there any laws regarding how 'fortified' one could make their home dwellings? :smile:





No.




I believe this is incorrect. I seem to recall my own state having laws against this. I did a wee google of the issue and Washington state declares the following:

Quote:


RCW 69.53.020
Unlawful fortification of building for drug purposes — Penalty.


(1) It is unlawful for any person who has under his or her management or control any building, room, space, or enclosure, either as an owner, lessee, agent, employee, or mortgagee, to knowingly allow the building, room, space, or enclosure to be fortified to suppress law enforcement entry in order to further the unlawful manufacture, delivery, sale, storage, or gift of any controlled substance under chapter 69.50 RCW, legend drug under chapter 69.41 RCW, or imitation controlled substance under chapter 69.52 RCW.
...

(3) A violation of this section is a class C felony punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.




Basically, better fortify the shit out of your pad if you're going to at all; that way you can destroy all evidence before they can find anything to hit you with this statute or one like it.

What strikes me is that the term 'fortified' has a lot of latitude in its interpretation. Most houses are inherently fortified to some degree in regards to drug activity that would occur within them. Where is the line drawn? Sounds just one more thing the prosecution could use to bankrupt you in paying a lawyer to argue about.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

Edited by Grok (05/17/11 05:23 PM)

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: floatindownsligo]
    #14469099 - 05/17/11 05:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

floatindownsligo said:
would the owner get in trouble if their home were to harm the police if they were trespassing?





Absolutely.  Booby traps are illegal because sometimes people like police and fire fighters need to enter without warning.  For example in the event of a burglary call or fire.

Quote:

Grok said:
I believe this is incorrect. I seem to recall my own state having laws against this. I did a wee google of the issue and Washington state declares the following:





Thanks for looking that up.  I was unaware of that law.

Fortification for the purpose of keeping burglars away seems to remain legal under that law.


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Offlinethelivingfreekshow
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Re: Supreme Court gives police leeway in home searches [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #14469123 - 05/17/11 05:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

DoDahDay said:
Kind of makes it not worth living anymore.





It is still worth living, but if you are concerned about this you could get a steel front door and steel door frame so they need to bang on it for 15 minutes or so before it gives way.




Or vote for Ron Paul next year.

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