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Offlinenice1
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Water for Africa
    #14466520 - 05/17/11 06:38 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Just wondering why people in places without drinking water like Africa don't build technology like this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_water_generator

Is just that no-one has ever done a good dead and told them about it?  Or am I being too simplistic?  I don't understand why its not being used as a method in places where people have trouble getting drinking water.  :confused:

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: nice1]
    #14466533 - 05/17/11 06:42 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Just guessing, but I think mostly for three reasons:
1. because a large-scale installation would be expensive and energy-intensive.
2. because it doesn't work in places where the air is very dry.
3. the yield is pretty low; it requires quite a large installation to produce water in any significant amounts.

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Offlinenice1
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: koraks]
    #14466565 - 05/17/11 06:53 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

The article describes methods that require no power or methods utilising sunlight as power and you can increase the systems potential by using sea water etc

I'm pretty sure you could make a simple sun distillation system for sea water with a few bits of plastic or junk we throw away everyday here.  Surely we could create some sort of project.

I see the problem being that Africans have no money so no-one wants to do it because they can't make money from it.

Edited by nice1 (05/17/11 06:58 AM)

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: nice1]
    #14466607 - 05/17/11 07:05 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

In survival situations, solar stills are sometimes used. They are notorious for their limited efficiency and effectiveness. They are about as low-tech and accessible as it gets, but still, they are only used scarcely. Similar concepts are sporadically implemented, but living near a ready source of fresh water such as a source, river or lake is just so much easier.

What sort of project do you have in mind? I.e., what would the focus be? Informing people of the concepts or technologies, actually implementing 'water generation plants', influencing NGOs...? It seems like it depends on what the problem is precisely. Which I don't know. I do know that some inhabited regions periodically suffer periods of drought, but I'm not sure how these concepts would help in those cases, and if they are actually a good solution.

In other words: I would be inclined to understand the problem first, and then move on to the technology that could solve it, and not the other way around.

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Offlinenice1
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: koraks]
    #14466661 - 05/17/11 07:21 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Yeah.  If everyone knew how to build one of those solar stills then surely there would be no issue with people needing drinking water? 

Each person would set up enough stills for their daily water requirements.  I just don't understand why they don't do it?  I mean I hear stories of people walking loads of miles just for a jug of water and people dyng cuz they have none.  When you consider the water they expend walking as well, why not just set up loads of stills?

Or everyone build big ones?

edit.
I suppose its just not efficient enough.

Edited by nice1 (05/17/11 07:31 AM)

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: nice1]
    #14466696 - 05/17/11 07:31 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

As I said, to obtain the water one person needs from solar stills requires a humongous surface area of stills. The maintenance and reliability issues are vastly prohibitive.

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: koraks]
    #14466707 - 05/17/11 07:34 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Plus you need starter water to distill. Trickier than it sounds, try it yourself and you'll see.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: Doc_T]
    #14466735 - 05/17/11 07:44 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Plus you need starter water to distill.



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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: koraks]
    #14466737 - 05/17/11 07:46 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Ever tried making a solar still?


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: Doc_T]
    #14466774 - 05/17/11 07:59 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

You bet. It worked as an experiment, but I wouldn't trust my life with one. I'd rather walk to water while drinking my own piss than sitting around in the desert hoping the quarter cup of water from the 10sqft solar still would materialize at the end of the day.

Edited by koraks (05/17/11 08:00 AM)

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: koraks]
    #14466778 - 05/17/11 08:00 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Yeah. If you had the manpower, something like a qanat would be worthwhile.

But really, nuclear powered desalination is where it's at.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: Doc_T]
    #14466782 - 05/17/11 08:02 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
But really, nuclear powered desalination is where it's at.



Nuclear or not, I think centralization probably works best for sweet water production. So yeah, massive desal plants at the coast, and then distribute as far inland as feasible.

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Offlinenice1
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: koraks]
    #14466809 - 05/17/11 08:12 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

The hippy in me is inclined to think tidal / solar generation for power.

I want to build my own eco home eventually but I'm having great difficulty because my country only has land for the rich.  You need a cool 1 million dollars to get land, kit and permission here :mad2:

It can be done for much less in other countries.  I've been looking at Portugal but I would then need to spend a few years learning the language and regulations. :sad:

Its not nice being born somewhere so controlled that you are basically a forced servant for your entire life.  I've been looking for a way out for a long time but havn't found one.

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: koraks]
    #14466812 - 05/17/11 08:13 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Agreed, there's huge economy of scale.
Even a mirror-based solar plant would be better than local solar stills.

Saudi Arabia bought a little nuclear plant from us back in the 60s (I think?) that makes water for their entire nation.
Lots of African countries could trade for something like that, and really it's not an unreasonable gift for us or another nation to give away.


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OfflineIdiot
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: Doc_T]
    #14473450 - 05/18/11 01:53 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Honestly that is quite a charity to build a distillation plant for a poor nation.

I doubt that the users of the plant make enough money to pay for the building, maintenance, and delivery infrastructure, and those with the money to pay for the structure initially probably wouldn't build it with little to no return.

As far as creating the personal atmosphere water generators that is also unlikely due to the available resources in the areas that would require such technology.  Although there are stories of such events.

It's just people who are used to living in a rough environment can't be upgraded overnight without discomfort and/or conflict.  I mean in the video I posted you can see that the guy is suffering heavily from culture shock.  Think of spending three months building a rudimentary electrical system capable of powering three light bulbs and a couple radios and then coming to an interview where, aside from the 10+ lights directing light right at you, there are 30+ light providing ambient light as well as this tiny wire connected to your face that is some how projecting your voice louder...but I digress, he isn't causing any discomfort because he's with a group of people that are acclimated to the surroundings, but if you give a social structure that hoards resources for survival purposes they may not be able to handle the ability to share a more available resource.


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Re: Water for Africa [Re: nice1]
    #14731581 - 07/07/11 02:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/09/22 07:29 PM)

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OfflineIdiot
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #14731860 - 07/07/11 03:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

There's a lot of really cool inventions that are being rolled out to Africa. 
Life Saver Bottle/jug
Life Straw
Water collecting surfaces

They're actually developing a material that can collect a substantial amount of water in dryer climates.

It's just that Africa is over twice the size of the USA.  Hell it's more than twice the size of China.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: nice1]
    #14780567 - 07/17/11 07:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I see much more in salting clouds and forcing precipitation.  In East Africa theres a terrible drought going on.  Though there are often clouds, they pass by without rain. Solution, salt the clouds and make it rain.

Ordinary table salt (NaCl), finely divided enough, will do that and a few pounds of the stuff is enough to make it rain in an area.

Fly right above a cloud spraying superheated salt water through an atomizer nozzle, the water will evaporate yielding microscopic salt crystals. Chemtrails man.


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Offline5HTSynaptrip
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Re: Water for Africa [Re: nice1]
    #14780697 - 07/17/11 08:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

nice1 said:
Just wondering why people in places without drinking water like Africa don't build technology like this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_water_generator

Is just that no-one has ever done a good dead and told them about it?  Or am I being too simplistic?  I don't understand why its not being used as a method in places where people have trouble getting drinking water.  :confused:




It's hard to imagine what a lack of education would be like, because even having a diploma from K-12 is something Americans take for granted.  Africa has been raped by other countries of the world for almost as long as recorded history.  The reason it is the way it is now is because of the US and Europe.  During the industrial revolution a lot of European countries "colonized" Africa.  Many of the African countries had interesting cultures and existed just fine, but instead of gaining knowledge from the world they were murdered, enslaved, and cheated out of everything. 

I have no idea why, but the reasons as to why African countries are the way are today isn't readily taught in history books and the shit happened in the past century and just beyond.  There is a great movie on Patrice Lumumba, that is pretty good at informing the viewers of how the US/Russia fucked that country over because of their power struggle.  Lumumba was an incredibly intelligent man, educated, a patriot in every sense of the word, and above all he was an outstanding human that was murdered by the interference/manipulation of other countries.  That's basically the story of Africa.  Other countries rape it and brush the history under the rug. 

Ironically, if some global disaster happened most of the US population would be fucked and we'd be killing each other over the remaining resources while primitive people could just go on living if no foreign shit-piles interfered.


--------------------


Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Water for Africa [Re: 5HTSynaptrip]
    #14781944 - 07/17/11 02:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The reason it is the way it is now is because of the US and Europe.




Bullshit.  Africa is the way now because of Africa.

Quote:

I have no idea why, but the reasons as to why African countries are the way are today isn't readily taught in history books and the shit happened in the past century and just beyond.




Of course reasons are taught.  That is why you made the claim that you made above.  US schools shove the white guilt bullshit you are preaching down our kids throats and perpetuate that racist ideology.

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