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THC driving impairment varies widely
in upcoming HDNet World Report test
May 16, 2011 - Westword
HB 1261, a bill to set THC driving standards, was put on hold by the
Senate judiciary committee last month only to be revived and
fast-tracked late in the legislative session. But it died in a Senate
vote due in part to the enormous variations in the way marijuana
affects different people. And an upcoming report for HDNet World Report
is expected to reinforce this argument.
Dennis O'Brien, Denver-based executive producer of World Report, read
with interest our post revealing that Westword medical marijuana critic
William Breathes's blood test was nearly triple the proposed 5 nanogram
per milliliter of blood standard even when he was sober. But O'Brien
and his team didn't set out to duplicate this approach for a story
currently scheduled to appear on May 17; check local listings for
HDNet, which is available on Comcast HD, DIRECTV and Dish Network.
Instead, O'Brien explains, "we tested four people who use medical
marijuana for various reasons by putting them in a driving simulator.
We did a baseline test of reaction times, then tested them again after
they had taken a typical dose of medicinal marijuana."
Mark Ashby, a former law-enforcement pro with experience in recognizing
signs of driving impairment, observed the tests. The results?
"We found varying levels of impairment," O'Brien says. "Some drove
perfectly well, while one person got into a quote-unquote accident. So
there was quite a range even in our small sample."
O'Brien stresses that the experiment "wasn't a scientific test -- it
was more of an anecdotal version of a scientific test." However, the
HDNet crew used two men and two women of different sizes, ages and
typical MMJ consumption to broaden the test's scope.
To O'Brien, the findings "weren't as obvious as you would expect to
find if you had four people who were intoxicated with alcohol, where
across the board you would have similar reactions. Our admittedly
limited sampling seemed to support the idea that people respond to
marijuana differently and there's not one way people drive while
quote-unquote high."
Senator Carroll, chairwoman of the Senate judiciary committee that
argued for more study of the THC driving limits bill, said much the
same thing in an interview prior to HB 1261's death. "With alcohol, the
metabolism issues are so well understood that you can give people a
rule of thumb -- you shouldn't have more than one drink every x-hour if
you're male or female," she noted. "And the members of judiciary kept
asking people if there's a way a medical marijuana patient can tell how
long after what kind of dosing they'll be okay to drive, and no one can
answer that." As such, she concluded that setting a bright-line
standard for THC intoxication "isn't ready for prime time."
As for O'Brien, he says, "All of us know by now people who use
medicinal marijuana for very good reasons, so in no way do we want to
denigrate people's medicinal needs" with the upcoming HDNet story. "And
that's not the debate we're interested in getting into. But I think
there are some fascinating questions both in Colorado and other states
that have approved medicinal marijuana, whether it has to do with the
federal-state relationship and enforcement, whether it has to do with
the proliferation of clinics, or whether it has to do with the
definition of driving impairment. These are just some of the unintended
consequences of medicinal marijuana law."
Are you kidding me ??? What color was the barn?? Last time I was in drivers ed... 15 years ago we were taught to pay attention to the road not colors of houses and barns lol. Second this simulator is shit not very tight controls and the one dude got shit cause he wrecked cause some asshole incoming driver drove straight into his lane. well he had the option of hitting the car head on or going off the road, at least he chose to sacrifice him self instead of the dick that was about to hit him head on. Do these test in a real car on a closed course and I guarantee 99 percent will pass. Cop propaganda at its best.
Re: [CO] THC driving impairment varies widely in upcoming HDNet World Report test [Re: sir_spins_alot] #14466680 - 05/17/11 07:27 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)
The first guy was nervous, or he is just a shitty driver, but that one driver completely came in his lane, and the simulator shouldn't have rolled the car over. I've had my car go off the road at seventy to eighty mph, and it just slid sideways until I got it straightened out and back on the road. They need real scientists do a study with a minimum of one hundred or one thousand people. That was retarded for them to ask the color of the barn. You shouldn't be noticing the colors of anything on the side of the road if you're looking at the road. Also, they kept highlighting menial mistakes. EVERYONE rides the median at some point, and for most people, it's even harder to correct that action while you're going around a curve. I've seen plenty of people turn left and go into the far right lane even while I'm turning right and headed for the same lane, and they cut me off. I'm damn sure they were sober.
-------------------- There is a molecule for every purpose. There are only actions and reactions. Cut out the middle men. Everything I say is a lie.
Registered: 01/30/03 Posts: 6,220 Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: [CO] THC driving impairment varies widely in upcoming HDNet World Report test [Re: destructo_low] #14467435 - 05/17/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)
Quote: SpecialEd said: I've had my car go off the road at seventy to eighty mph, and it just slid sideways until I got it straightened out and back on the road.
Thank god you were stoned when that happened. That could have been bad!
I think I may have been stoned. What happened was my car started to drift off into a left turn lane while I was going down the highway, because I was fucking around with the radio or something. Well when the turning lane ended, my car just dropped off the end of the turning lane into the grassy median, and the back end kicked out. I slid a good one hundred feet sideways with only the right front tire on the road, but I turned into the skid and got on the brakes a little to straighten it out and drive back on the road still going about fifty mph.
-------------------- There is a molecule for every purpose. There are only actions and reactions. Cut out the middle men. Everything I say is a lie.
Re: [CO] THC driving impairment varies widely in upcoming HDNet World Report test [Re: destructo_low] #14472093 - 05/18/11 08:10 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)
I did not watch the video, but I read the article....I don't understand, do you think that cop is not supportive of medical cannabis? He seems pretty supportive to me, why is everyone so angry about this?
Quote: To O'Brien, the findings "weren't as obvious as you would expect to find if you had four people who were intoxicated with alcohol, where across the board you would have similar reactions. Our admittedly limited sampling seemed to support the idea that people respond to marijuana differently and there's not one way people drive while quote-unquote high."
So.....whats the problem with that?
-------------------- Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~
"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~ (Grateful Dead)
"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony
"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero
Re: [CO] THC driving impairment varies widely in upcoming HDNet World Report test [Re: LongStrangeTrip] #14472659 - 05/18/11 11:07 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)
One issue here is that there is huge variability in what is referred to as a "driving simulator". The other is that with a sample of 4, variability is also huge.
Really though, all that's needed is a way to measure acute, circulating plasma levels of THC. Collect data cross the U.S., and you're likely to find a level at which an increase in accidents is seen. Pretty straightforward actualy.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.
Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.
...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.
Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
Quote: badchad said: One issue here is that there is huge variability in what is referred to as a "driving simulator". The other is that with a sample of 4, variability is also huge.
Really though, all that's needed is a way to measure acute, circulating plasma levels of THC. Collect data cross the U.S., and you're likely to find a level at which an increase in accidents is seen. Pretty straightforward actualy.
I really think all that is needed is a sobriety test, I don't understand all this measurement argumentation. Yes we do it for alcohol but that is a completley different substance, with completley different effects. This is cannabis; the only easy way to tell if someone is high, is, well....ask them! If a cop can pull you out of the car and your eyes are bloodshot, your giggling, cannot walk a straight line, ya know what; your wasted ! If the cop can't tell, step the fuck off son~ /debate
-------------------- Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~
"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~ (Grateful Dead)
"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony
"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero
THC driving test on HDNet shows
marijuana impairs, but does it prove
anything?
May 18, 2011 - Westword
On Monday, we previewed HDNet World Report's driving test of medical
marijuana patients.
The full report aired last night. But while it's a respectable piece of
work, the final results, which tilt toward the argument that MMJ
patients shouldn't drive after medicating, raise more questions than
they answer due in part to the small number of participants and the way
in which the test was conducted.
The package begins with stoner movie clips from Cheech and Chong and
others before rolling into interviews with the likes of attorney Sean
McAllister, who has no problem with a per se THC limit from a
philosophical standpoint but believes current science hasn't
established the sort of bright-line standard in use to determine
alcohol impairment.
The report also notes that the Colorado legislature killed a THC
driving bill earlier this month because representatives weren't
convinced that the proposed 5 nanogram per milliliter of blood standard
effectively demonstrated impairment -- particularly in light of a blood
test involving Westword medical marijuana reviewer William Breathes,
who registered at nearly triple the limit when sober due to the way THC
lingers in a user's system.
The second half of the report concentrates on the test itself. In our
preview piece, HDNet executive producer Dennis O'Brien said four people
took part in the experiment, which required them to use a driving
simulator while sober, then do so again after medicating; in both
cases, they were observed by a drug recognition expert. However, only
three individuals made the final cut -- and one of them didn't medicate
prior to his second try on the simulator, as a way of establishing that
the expert, who'd been told that all three smoked, wouldn't see
marijuana impairment when none existed.
The person who steered clear of marijuana entirely passed the test both
times. Not so the two patients who medicated. One of them got into a
virtual, car-flipping accident the second time around, while the other
had a couple of incidents when she drifted out of her lane. In both
instances, the expert considered them impaired.
Problem is, the test appears to have been conducted immediately after
consumption -- so it doesn't provide any insight about whether time
might diminish impairment. Moreover, the viewer isn't told how much
marijuana the test takers consumed or its potency, leaving the
inaccurate perception that all cannabis is the same. And even though
the difference in post-medication driving results involving the two
marijuana smokers -- lane drifts versus a car flip -- seems
significant, the determination that both were impaired seems to more or
less shrug off the distinction.
The report concludes with the claim that people on both sides of the
driving-on-medical-marijuana issue believe more testing is needed.
However, that may not be true for Colorado Attorney General John
Suthers, whose attack on the THC driving bill's death, which is
mentioned in the HDNet offering, suggests that his mind is well and
truly made up on the subject.