Home | Community | Message Board

Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
InvisibleOgla
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 11,315
synthesized mescaline ? * 1
    #14462288 - 05/16/11 02:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

So I keep hearing people say that they want mescaline, synthesized or extracted.  I always kept thinking that u can't synthesize mescaline, only extract it; ( synthesis is to bond more than one element like lysergic acid and diethylamide ). But I keep hearing people say that there is synthetic mescaline.

Does this mean that there r two or more elements available that when bonded together have the same formula as mescaline extracted??  If so, very cool. I'm then eager to learn more.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
Loc: Denver, CO Flag
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: Ogla] * 1
    #14462309 - 05/16/11 02:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Why would anyone synthesize mescaline when it's a lot less work to extract it?

I'm sure mescaline synthesis is possible- as are a lot of things- but the idea just doesn't make sense.

A lot of people who run their mouths don't know what they're saying. :smile:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOgla
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 11,315
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: ifoundwaldo] * 1
    #14462727 - 05/16/11 03:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i actually think it would be cool to b able to do that. Cactus takes many years to grow and is an effort to get all the time.  i think if u could make synthetic mescaline u could synthesis a nice phat batch as compared to a few grams from an extract. it would eliminate growing of the cactus which is a source that could run low

and apparently u can out of gallic acid
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/mescaline.gallic.improvement.html
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/mescaline.mannich.html

Experimental4

3,4,5-Trimethoxybenzaldehyde

Gallic acid was converted to trimethylgallic acid in 80% yield by methylation with methyl sulfate5.

Trimethylgalloyl chloride was prepared in 81% yield by the action of phosphorus pentachloride on trimethylgallic acid.1 The acid chloride was purified by distillation and redistillation under reduced pressure; bp 131-133°C/2 mmHg; mp 83-84°C.

Rosenmund reduction of 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzoyl chloride (trimethylgalloyl chloride) was carried out as described1 using 52 g of 3% Pd-BaSO4 catalyst per mole of acid chloride. Dry xylene was the solvent. The product was recovered by removal of the catalyst by filtration, stripping off the xylene and fractional distillation of the residue under reduced pressure. A forerun of pyrogallol trimethyl ether, bp 82-100°C/0.1 mmHg, was obtained, and 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzaldehyde was collected as the fraction boiling at 106-112°C/0.1 mmHg. After crystallization from alcohol the aldehyde melted at 73-74°C; yield 59%.

3,4,5-Trimethoxy-β-nitrostyrene

This compound was prepared by the procedure of Späth2 in 82.7% yield; mp 121-122°C after recrystallization from alcohol.

Mescaline Hydrochloride

Reduction of 7.2 g (0.03 mole) of 3,4,5-trimethoxy-β-nitrostyrene with 5.7 g. of lithium aluminum hydride was carried out as described3a for 4-hydroxy-3-methoxy-β-nitrostyrene. The yield of mescaline picrate, mp 210-212°C, was 11.4 g (86%).

After recrystallization from alcohol, the picrate melted at 214-216°C; reported2 216-218°C. The mescaline picrate was converted to mescaline hydrochloride as described3a in 92% yield; mp 180-181°C (after recrystallization from alcohol); reported1 181°C.





Edited by Ogla (05/16/11 03:51 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledrr
Female
Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: Ogla] * 1
    #14463942 - 05/16/11 07:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think people are probably confused about synthesis vs extraction.

But I'm sure mescaline can be synthesized.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDawks
Jolly African Potato


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4,935
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: drr] * 3
    #14463988 - 05/16/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Mescaline Synthesis

You people seriously never heard of PIHKAL?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledrr
Female
Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: Dawks] * 1
    #14465293 - 05/16/11 10:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Dawks said:
Mescaline Synthesis

You people seriously never heard of PIHKAL?



:facepalm:
I own a copy.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemuistrue
Inspired by the mystery
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 12,899
Loc: Behind the Redwoods
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: Ogla] * 1
    #14465352 - 05/16/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Of course mescaline can be synthesized. The psychedelic phenethylamines that Shulgin invented and discussed in PiHKAL were created by synthesizing mescaline then tweaking it's chemical structure to get new compounds that are very similar to mescaline but different in very important ways.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOgla
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 11,315
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: muistrue] * 1
    #14498584 - 05/23/11 11:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

in the PIHKAL above, 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzaldehyde,  nitromethane  and  cyclohexylamine


3,4,5-trimethoxybenzaldehyde is available on ebay.  expensive thou..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360218065670&hlp=false

nitromethane is an engine fuel if im not mistaken, available @ 100% purity online... (made from propane and nitric acid i think)...

cyclohexylamine can b bought from chem suppliers online.. (made from cyclohexane which is made thru organic synthesis of benzene with hydroiodic acid?)

these chems dissolved in acetic acid (vinegar),  heated for 1 hour... mixed with water (which make crystal fall out); filter crystals,  redissolve and recrystallize in methanol.. (<- makes beta-nitro-3,4,5-trimethoxystyrene)..

reflux above crystals in ether + Lithium aluminium hydride (available online)..  can b refluxed in Soxhlet extraction condenser- 48 hours... cool,  add dilute Sulfuric Acid (kills hydride and separates into two layers)...  save aqueous layer; (double wash with ether and separate again)..  then to the water, add potassium sodium tartrate (a salt) with Sodium Hydroxide (hardware store)..  then add Dichloromethane (solvent) to water to extract;  evaporate/ vacuum to get residue..  distill  (not sure in what) to get white oil..  dissolve in isopropyl alcohol and add Hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid); then it says "The white crystals that formed were diluted with.." ether, removed by filtration dried to 3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine hydrochloride (mescaline hcl)..


--

the 'An Improved Synthesis of Mescaline' on erwoid above uses Gallic acid converted

"Gallic acid is found in almost all plants. Plants known for their high gallic acid content include gallnuts, grapes, tea, hops and oak bark. "


ither way as u can tell.  I am interested in learning exactly how this process goes


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRemix
grammer natze
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 4,171
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: Ogla] * 1
    #14499166 - 05/23/11 01:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Mescaline can definitely be synthesized but I'm willing to bet that anyone who thinks they have tried synthetic mescaline has probably just had an RC. I've never come across ANY dealers who could get legitimate mescaline.

Most people I know of who have tried mescaline haven't had pure mescaline - they've either had peyote or some other active cacti.


--------------------


Edited by Remix (05/23/11 01:46 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledrr
Female
Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: Remix] * 1
    #14500287 - 05/23/11 05:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I always hear people's stories about taking 'mescaline' in pressed pills or microdots. I got tired of explaining to them that it is unlikely and maybe even impossible. So now I just say "thats nice" and give them a high five.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemuistrue
Inspired by the mystery
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 12,899
Loc: Behind the Redwoods
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: drr] * 1
    #14500695 - 05/23/11 06:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I've seen RC dealers with mescaline HCL on the menu a couple years ago but all the pure mescaline I've done was extracted. It's pretty easy to acquire nice pure white mescaline HCL crystals yourself and it's really fun too.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineeqt146
Stranger


Registered: 05/05/11
Posts: 107
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: muistrue] * 1
    #14500778 - 05/23/11 07:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

When you do a mescaline extraction, you're actually getting a mix of various alkaloids, including mescaline. Many of these are psychoactive as well. That's why a Peyote trip, San Pedro trip, and Peruvian Torch trip are slightly qualitatively different. They have a somewhat different blend of alkaloids. It's also why a trip on extracted mescaline or cactus material sometimes seems to come in "waves". Some of the alkaloids kick in faster than others so the trip isn't necessarily linear in intensity.


If you want PURE mescaline, synthesis is still probably the least practical way to get it. If you do enough research, there's probably someone who has profiled and analyzed all of the alkaloids in mescaline cacti. If you were to seperate all of the alkaloids with a chromatography coloum, you could probably use this information to isolate only pure mescaline. This would definitely be easier than a synthesis.

There's a reason you don't see much mescaline on the streets. Extraction doesn't give very good yields in relation to the amount you need to trip, and synthesis is just too hard and impractical.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledrr
Female
Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: eqt146] * 1
    #14500830 - 05/23/11 07:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You can bet if I took the time to extract pure mescaline, I wouldn't be selling any of it to anyone - I'd treasure it. Free doses for loved ones only.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemuistrue
Inspired by the mystery
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 12,899
Loc: Behind the Redwoods
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: drr] * 1
    #14500863 - 05/23/11 07:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

drr said:
Free doses for loved ones only.




That's how I roll with my extractions as well. :thumbup:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineargg
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 4,848
Loc: Nigeria
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: drr] * 1
    #14500865 - 05/23/11 07:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

3,4,5-Trimethoxybenzaldehyde used to be able to be purchased from the back of high times/rolling stone. There seems to be a resurgence of synthetic mesc around as its been seen in a couple places and test results on a harm reduction site show a highly pure mesc. I had to pick up a couple grams even though I already had a couple from cacti. It makes me happy to see it out there.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: eqt146] * 1
    #14500894 - 05/23/11 07:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

eqt146 said:
When you do a mescaline extraction, you're actually getting a mix of various alkaloids, including mescaline. Many of these are psychoactive as well. That's why a Peyote trip, San Pedro trip, and Peruvian Torch trip are slightly qualitatively different. They have a somewhat different blend of alkaloids. It's also why a trip on extracted mescaline or cactus material sometimes seems to come in "waves". Some of the alkaloids kick in faster than others so the trip isn't necessarily linear in intensity.





This is interesting because when I compare my Everclear extracted cactus trips with my water extracted cactus trips, they are often different.  The Everclear trips last much longer but are often less intense and the water extracted trips are more intense but are shorter.  I guess each solvent pulls different alkaloids and leaves others behind.  I think a better way of doing this is to do an Everclear extraction and then do a quick tea cook afterwards on the material.  The trips I get from A/B extractions always seem the least worthy, they are damn weak even at high doses.  I've always suspected that A/B extractions were not very efficient when compared to a good tea.  I know that perhaps the other alkaloids play a part in the awesome tea trips, but damn, I just feel I am throwing my cactus away when I A/B it.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemrnye
Trich Farmer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/18/11
Posts: 155
Loc: bumblescum, USA Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: eqt146] * 1
    #15660531 - 01/13/12 12:08 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

eqt146 said:
If you want PURE mescaline, synthesis is still probably the least practical way to get it. This would definitely be easier than a synthesis.

There's a reason you don't see much mescaline on the streets. Extraction doesn't give very good yields in relation to the amount you need to trip, and synthesis is just too hard and impractical.




This is just all out wrong. Hate to say it but synthesis is much easier and cost-effective means for obtaining LARGE yeilds of PURE mescaline HCl.
In fact, if you want PURE mesc you have to synthesize, as mentioned earlier when extracting from cacti you do, in fact get more than just mesc.
If you find a source for 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzaldehyde then theres a 2-step, very safe, reaction to the corresponding beta-nitrostyrene.
Then you have to set up and know how to operate a hydrogenation apparatus that can withstand 80psi and hydrogenat over Pd/C. If any meth cook can do this I think some of the fartsmell.....er smart fellers on here can figure it out.
It goes like so;
1. 1000g of 3,4,5TMB is mixed with 280ml Nitromethane and 2100ml EtOH  in one container

2. In another container 420g KOH is mixed with 420ml d-H20 and 840ml MeOH

3. These are mixed together in an Ice bath to keep the temperature down and, upon full addition, is removed from the ice bath and left to sit at room temp for 30min

4. In another 5 gallon glass carboy, make 3gallons of 10%HCl.

5. After the full half-hour of reacting, the reaction mixture is poured into the carboy and submerged in an Ice bath.

6. A yellow precipitate will settle/crystallize out and after it all settles the liquids can be siphoned off throug a funnel and filter to catch and nytrostyrene that may be sucked through.

7. Dissolve all yellow precipitates in boiling MeOH, Filter and cool to form yellow crystal, vaccuum filter off, recrystallize again if needed or desired and store in an air tight "blacked-out" jar for future use.
This yeilds around 800-900g 3,4,5-Trimethoxy-beta-nitrostyrene.

To reduce to 345TMPEA via catalytic hydrogenation, I will quote erowid;

Hydrogenation

    15g Pd/C 5%
    175g 3,4,5TMBnitrostyrene
    2.5L Anhydrous EtOH
    100ml 31.45% HCl

Procedure

    Add reagents to the keg, begin vigorous stirring
    Remove atmosphere and pressurize to 75psi with H2
    React for 8-10 hours or until H2 uptake has completely ceased
    Evacuate H2 outside, vacuum out interior of vessel, allow H2 to clear, THEN open the vessel
    Vacuum filter off Pd/C
    Re-filter through celite for maximum Pd/C recovery/removal
    Distill the mixture down until the Ethanol fraction begins to cease
    Cool and take up what is left in 2L 3N HCl

        Your remainder may look somewhat black/brown here, but don't worry, this will all be cleared up. If the hydrogenation did not go to completion some unreacted nitrostyrene will remain, this should be filtered from the solution.

    Wash with 2x125ml DCM
    Basify to pH>11 dropwise and with stirring with saturated NaOH solution
    Extract 3x125ml DCM
    Dry over NaSO4 (250g) for 15 minutes
    Filter off NaSO4 and bubble DCM with HCl(g) anhydrous. After crystalization ceases it can be advantageous to filter and redry the DCM with another 100g NaSO4, then bubble some more.
    Collect HCl salt crystals by filtration

Final mass yield = 168.74g Mescaline•HCl

Scale up if you can find a big enough reaction pressure vessel or do it in batches.

As you can see, though, if you can find the right sources this is a much less expensive way to get around 5-600g pure mescaline HCl than buying 60+ kilos of dry cactus chips. I actually added up the cost of doing all of this once not too long ago and its less that $1500 including the 345TMB and the Pd/C, which will be the only thing that's actually hard to get a hold of, everything else is available all over, but you can find anything in China:cool:


--------------------
:ass2mouth::ass2mouth:PE's a Plenty:ass2mouth::ass2mouth:
:House2:You'll DIE if you don't read this!
Mr Bill Nye's Mystery Myco Science Theater
So, any questions or advice, especially advice, comment and let me know what I'm doing wrong or right


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesk8ordude
Stranger
Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 632
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: mrnye] * 1
    #15660804 - 01/13/12 01:09 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

If one had the facilities it might be easier to produce it then extract it in widescale production. They have synthesized drugs quite similar to mescaline and it was much cheaper per dose.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemrnye
Trich Farmer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/18/11
Posts: 155
Loc: bumblescum, USA Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: sk8ordude] * 1
    #15662037 - 01/13/12 06:22 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

I'm saying it doesn't take any more facilities than a common meth lab to produce, if one has access to the proper precursor and catalyst. Did you read the first reaction? You can basically mix up the reaction mixture in a gallon wine jug and have your HCl in a 5 gal carboy that's sitting in a tub full of ice water. Mix in the TMB mixture and wait for precips to settle, recrystallize from Methanol and bang, you got your nitrostyrene.

Then you get something like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alloy-Products-Corp-Chemical-Pressure-Vessel-T316L-4L-/220797128386?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336888cec2

Rigged with proper valves, regulators and gauges this would make the perfect hydrogenation vessel. If you read the procedure, shaking isn't mentioned, so need to worry with building a safe shaker that won't leave catalyst on the side of the vessel to dry out under H2 :onfire:

Anywho, I'm no chemist but this doesn't sound any more complex than a methamphetamine synth, and if the TMB can be obtained then somebody somewhere is doing this. So the is the possibility of getting synthetic mesc if you live in a metropolitan type area, but if its not a big capsule full then chances are you got some kind of RC. Somebody get me some 345-TMB and some Pd/C and I'll show you how easily it can be done(also I need all the equipment I've mentioned)


--------------------
:ass2mouth::ass2mouth:PE's a Plenty:ass2mouth::ass2mouth:
:House2:You'll DIE if you don't read this!
Mr Bill Nye's Mystery Myco Science Theater
So, any questions or advice, especially advice, comment and let me know what I'm doing wrong or right


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMeteloides
Clinically Expressed


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 2,187
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: mrnye] * 1
    #15662943 - 01/13/12 10:08 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Leonard Pickard synthed Mescaline, just to prove to himself he could do it.
The shit requires a real lab setup, and a solid understanding of chemistry and synthesis. And a recipe that actually works, and isn't some of the poorly put together shit you can find on the internet (this isn't directed at any posts in this thread, just an observation that you can't trust some of the things you read on other sites). If it sounds too good/easy to be true, it's not a real synth.

Extraction is easier. But its pretty widely believed that a full-spectrum cactus tea is a more enjoyable trip.


--------------------
:smoking:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemrnye
Trich Farmer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/18/11
Posts: 155
Loc: bumblescum, USA Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: Meteloides] * 1
    #15664206 - 01/14/12 08:09 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

the things i've quoted here are from actual scientific sources. So yeah, you cant trust everything you read on the internet, unless it's cited by scientific articles. That first rxn from tmb to tmbnitro is from otto snow's love drugs, and also an organic chemistry book I read on a password only site, has been a confirmed working route, and requires absolutely NO lab equipment. Then next rxn is just a catalytic hydrogenation, which your average redneck, high-school drop-out, white trash meth cook can do in his sleep.

EXTRACTION IS IN NO WAY EASIER THAN SYNTHESIS. Think about it. The supplies and everything you need to SYNTH mescaline, if it can will cost around $1500-2000, and will produce around 600g of pure mesc HCl from ONE kilo of TMB in a matter of 2 days. If you wanted the same amount from cactus you need the equivalent of 60kg green flesh, Last I checked the best bulk dry cacti price I could get was like 80/kg which means your spending $4800 just on the cactus. Then you need all your lye, xylene, etc.

If you think extraction is the easiest then you have no real grasp of chemistry beyond "acid makes salt, base makes freebase" If you were to do any research at all you'd know that extraction takes a week to finish and has a yield of around 1.5%(if your lucky) where as synthesis takes 2, 3 days at the most, and yields about 60% of the amount of precursor you put into it. The first reaction could be done by a small child, and if you have at least 4 brain-cells in your you can make a hydrogenation vessel.

So... WHAT, BESIDES THE AVAILABILITY OF CACTUS OVER 345TMB, MAKES EXTRACTION SOOOOO MUCH EASIER? WHERE'S YOUR EVIDENCE? I JUST POINTED OUT THAT SYNTH WOULD BE CHEAPER, FASTER AND HIGHER YIELDING SO WHAT CAN POSSIBLY BE MORE EFFICIENT IN AN EXTRACTION?


--------------------
:ass2mouth::ass2mouth:PE's a Plenty:ass2mouth::ass2mouth:
:House2:You'll DIE if you don't read this!
Mr Bill Nye's Mystery Myco Science Theater
So, any questions or advice, especially advice, comment and let me know what I'm doing wrong or right


Edited by mrnye (01/14/12 08:22 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemrnye
Trich Farmer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/18/11
Posts: 155
Loc: bumblescum, USA Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: mrnye] * 1
    #15664262 - 01/14/12 08:35 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Seriously, this is a ridiculous argument. Let me put this in another way.

Ephedrine can be extracted from ephedra and separated via chromatography, like someone mentioned could be done with mescaline, and yes this works. But if this were the best/easiest/most efficient means of achieving pure ephedrine then why dont they do it in labs? Not meth labs, which have been known to, but why isn't pfizer's ephedrine extracted from ephedra? eh?

Because synthesis is always cheaper, always easier, and ALWAYS WAY MORE COST AND TIME EFFECTIVE.

For this particular synthesis, its just as easy as methamphetamine manufacture, I know that sounds unsafe, but remember that most of those guys that blow up in those are high on their own supply. A level headed adult with the Chems/Synthesis above, and an internet connection to research exactly what all these things mean, can make mescaline synthetically. Honestly, I've been researching all the ins and outs of it for the past 2-3months pretty hard. I can tell you true, 345TMB must be some hard shit to get a hold of or most people just don't even think about manufacturing Mescaline. Because, to me, this is like making a souffle, if your careful and follow instructions you'll have a great dessert, but if you go messing around with proportions, time, etc and you'll have no dessert, ever again in this case, but almost anybody can make a souffle.

So look, this thread is about synthesized mescaline, right? So why is everybody on here talking about extracting mescaline? How about this, STAY ON TOPIC. If anyone has any question about any of my sources, etc let me know. If anyone has new infromation on different routes(Hell we could even include routes from piperonal, vanillin, p-cresol, etc even tough they are far less cost-effective) I have extracted mescaline, INMYDREAMSOFCOURSE, a hundred times, and it is to labor intensive. So from here on this should be a "work smarter,not harder" discussion.

I'd really like some actually chemists on here to chime in, instead of this one dead-head chemist shouting from his soapbox. FOR REAL, WILL SOMEBODY F'N BACK ME UP HERE!


--------------------
:ass2mouth::ass2mouth:PE's a Plenty:ass2mouth::ass2mouth:
:House2:You'll DIE if you don't read this!
Mr Bill Nye's Mystery Myco Science Theater
So, any questions or advice, especially advice, comment and let me know what I'm doing wrong or right


Edited by mrnye (01/14/12 08:37 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemrnye
Trich Farmer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/18/11
Posts: 155
Loc: bumblescum, USA Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: mrnye]
    #15664510 - 01/14/12 09:51 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Scientific article backing up Catalytic Hydrogenation of Nitrostyrenes to PEAs
http://loinen.i2p.to/rhodium/chemistry/ns2pea.cat-hyd.html

Notice the side table of different PEA's made with this method as well a purported yields.
R         mp         Yield

3,4,5-(MeO)3 181-3°C2 83% <--3,4,5-TriMeO-PEA is mesc

Only difference is in the one I put up EtOH is used in place of water as well as temperature and agitation. I personally wouldn't be brave enough to add on a shaker, but it could be done and potentially increase yield.

Yet again I say that the only thing keeping synthetic Mescaline off the streets is the difficulty in finding the benzaldehyde to start out with. But it's hard to find Phenylacetone and its still used in meth manufacture today(though ephed/pphed is still more common)

Where there's a will there's a way people and if enough people did this around the world we could continue to grow our cacti and save them for when the mass amounts of mescaline runs out and no more precursor can be had/made. Then we will have much older,and thus more potent, cacti to harvest from.


--------------------
:ass2mouth::ass2mouth:PE's a Plenty:ass2mouth::ass2mouth:
:House2:You'll DIE if you don't read this!
Mr Bill Nye's Mystery Myco Science Theater
So, any questions or advice, especially advice, comment and let me know what I'm doing wrong or right


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCameron1996
Stranger
Registered: 11/28/15
Posts: 384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #22650115 - 12/13/15 01:54 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Because its waaaayyy more practical and a better grade..and peyote is almost extinct leave the cacti alone before there all gone ...just make it from amino acids or the other 101 ways to make it without killing off all the peyotes or sanpedros~


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemoonzo
Getting Better
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/04/14
Posts: 3,155
Loc: Kaneta Flag
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: Ogla]
    #22651798 - 12/13/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

losfreddy said:
So I keep hearing people say that they want mescaline, synthesized or extracted.  I always kept thinking that u can't synthesize mescaline, only extract it; ( synthesis is to bond more than one element like lysergic acid and diethylamide ). But I keep hearing people say that there is synthetic mescaline.

Does this mean that there r two or more elements available that when bonded together have the same formula as mescaline extracted??  If so, very cool. I'm then eager to learn more.





I've eaten mescaline HCL. I believe that's the synthetic mescaline you're referring to.

twas wonderful.


--------------------
"I don't make any sense, do not ever listen to me under any circumstance." <-- This is how I am viewed by a regular person in society
"Were the aliens nice?" <-- How I hope to be treated on this forum

Track record: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=20394867&page=2&vc=1#20394867

Mescapsilosyergictryptamine :billseal:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineShroomDoom
Friend of the Medicine
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 4,435
Loc: A Psychedelic State Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: moonzo]
    #22658906 - 12/15/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Elemicin with KOH-> Isoelemicin->isoelemicin with KMn04 -> 3,4,5 TMP?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCameron1996
Stranger
Registered: 11/28/15
Posts: 384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: mrnye]
    #22772979 - 01/13/16 01:52 AM (8 years, 19 days ago)

Thanks for that mrnye..that is defenitly one of the main ways to do it

its old, reliable and very practable.ive even heard of people crystlizing on addition h20 and i like the sound of that.

You defenitly get a isolated clean alkaloid way cleaner than your mixture of alkaloids from an a/b, or any extraction at that matter and wont have to wait ten years for peyote which is very endangered and your a asshole for killing it now a days or haveing to use 100 sanpedros


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCameron1996
Stranger
Registered: 11/28/15
Posts: 384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: Cameron1996]
    #22776074 - 01/13/16 07:46 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

I would like to find a trimethyloxidiation reaction from PEA (Phentethylamine) and make it straight by from that
that or something similer

you could even start looking at 2ci compounds


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJohnnyWonder
The Dude
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/14/14
Posts: 29
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: muistrue]
    #23055704 - 03/28/16 04:52 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

I know this is an old thread, but I had to respond.  I'm a chemistry major and I have been fortunate enough to have my organic chemistry professor to talk to about this kinda of stuff as he is an older head. 

As per the conversation we had today when I asked how difficult it would be to extract mescaline from cacti (I grow a number of different mescaline producing species), I was told that it is rather inefficient to extract when the yields are so low and the most important reason why synthetic is preferred over an extract (and the reason for my response to this post) is that it is a lot of work to isolate the mescaline as there are many other compounds that are also being extracted that are not helpful and possibly even harmful. 

Unless one is taking synthetic mescaline, it is highly unlikely that one is taking pure mescaline.  Even drug companies have a problem with totally isolating many compounds, especially certain racemic mixtures like thalidomide or tryptophan.  Many advancements in the last 20 years, and especially in the last 10 with designing metal complexes with ligands that are capable of producing enantiospecific products have become a chemists dream.  This means that many drugs can be produced using stereospecific reactions that produce virtually any compound the chemist can dream up, providing that it follows the basic rules.  This is a huge advancement for drug companies, especially.

For someone who knows what they are doing, meaning a chemist or someone who is patient enough to spend several years of their lives studying chemistry and acquiring the necessary knowledge and supplies, synthesis is not that difficult.  What is difficult to obtain is experience with lab techniques that will be used and having safety protocols, the most important thing to keep in mind, ingrained.  Folks who are not chemists or too spun out to keep track of safety should be no where near a lab as they pose major safety risks bc they generally lack the basic understanding of lab techniques and safety protocol.

Its best to develop your techniques over a period of years and go to school for chemistry if one is truly interested in making these compounds.  Those who don't are usually the ones who blow themselves up or burn their houses down bringing much negative attention to scene.


Edited by JohnnyWonder (08/21/16 04:23 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJohnnyWonder
The Dude
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/14/14
Posts: 29
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: mrnye]
    #23055892 - 03/28/16 05:48 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

I appreciated your comment and close to graduating with my bachelor's in chemistry.  I also plan on going on for at least a master's in biochem or neurochem and possibly a Ph.D. if I can talk myself into it.

I know that this thread is old, but I wanted to chime in that it is not always easier and cheaper to synthesize a compound (mescaline is easier to synthesize, however, due to the low yield and difficulty in isolating mescaline from all the other compounds that are extracted in the process).  For example, cocaine, as far as I know, is much more difficult to synthesize than to extract bc of the stereoisomers that are produced.  Some new breakthroughs in chemistry (that I have been researching, but not for cocaine synthesis) using metal complexes may solve this issue, however.

Another example is Taxol, a cancer drug extracted from the bark of the yew tree.  The yield is extremely small (I believe less than a gram per old tree) and it takes the tree so long to grow that it was decimating habitat for an owl, I believe, as well as wiping out yew forests.  An analogue to the sought after compound was found to be present in the yew shrub, which grows faster.  So this was grown to be used instead of the yew tree.  This and many other compounds (insulin harnesses GMO bacteria that can more efficiently produce the desired compound) are produced by harnessing nature. 

I thought that this was a great example of how science can learn to work with nature, and sometimes even improve nature via GMO's, like corn that is drought tolerant, plants that need much less nitrogen, golden rice that has vitamin A to help kids in Asia from dying of malnutrition, corn that needs less herbicide/pesticide etc.  I know that is a major topic of debate for some and it used to be for me also until I actually researched the topic from reputable sources.  It blew my mind that GMO's are actually more environmentally friendly than organic farming.  There are over 1700 papers supporting the safety of GMO's and less than a handful of papers publish that are against GMO's and all of these have been highly criticized and debunked by science, which is much more reliable than obvious sensationalized propaganda films like "Seeds of Death." 

After doing the research, I couldn't believe that I had bought into so much of the unreliable, anecdotal BS out there against GMO's.  It was bc that was what I was hearing from the community that validated me and what I was seeing from the "documentaries" I chose to watch and what I was reading from the sources I chose to read.  My view was myopic and my mind was emotionally closed bc I believed I was right.  But I professed to be open-minded and know "how" to think.  University taught me how to be much more discerning in the information I relied on as one's reputation in the scientific community is huge.  Publish pseudo-science and good luck getting hired for more research or getting a grant to conduct research. 

I no longer trust beliefs definitively.  Instincts are good to go on with certain things, but to always do something one way is do disregard that life is multi-faceted and when it comes to science, it's best to trust the data and paper that is published from a high impact journal until something says to not trust it, unless you are a scientist yourself and can review the methods used to see if their are flaws and if the data is able to be consistently reproduced or if it was skewed in the first place.  A course like biostatistics is great for learning how to interpret data to see if it was skewed and properly represented.  I know GMO's seem logically like a bad idea, but most folks on that train have no clue that organic seeds are allowed to be altered via mutagenesis where the genome is bombarded with gamma radiation to trigger random mutations.  The scary part is that there are no regulations currently in place to ensure that this is safe.  So which is more safe, the plant produced by random mutations of who knows what genes other than the phenotype traits that can be seen or a plant that has a very specific gene altered whose properties are generally understood as well as highly researched for years to ensure safety, like a drug?  Give me GMO any day of the week.  Also, thanks to GMO's, pesticide and herbicide use is dramatically reduced and the ones that are used today are much safer and more target specific so that bees are not harmed, unlike neem oil, spinosad and other organic insecticides that do harm bees and have to be used up to 6 times more often due to being much less effective than the non-organic option.

I got off on a tangent, but I hope the seeds of thought that I spread might eventually take root in a mind that truly questions everything.  I have fought the system for a long time, but the older I get, I realize that I could have saved myself a lot of trouble if I had just learned to better discern the reliability of information and put more faith and trust in my parents, despite them being straight and all.  Turns out, the system and the world are better than I ever thought possible, despite being far from perfect.  Ignoring it and not participating in it bc of ideals based on mostly delusional conspiracy theories and ignorance is not responsible and completely lacks integrity, despite good intentions.  It is a position based on ignorance and one that will lead to a life of frustration.  Glad I am finally starting to grow up at 40. 

All the best, y'all.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineShadeOfDeepPurple
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 2,831
Loc: The Isle Of Everywhere Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: JohnnyWonder] * 2
    #23056042 - 03/28/16 06:26 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

I've had real synthetic mescaline before. Pure white fluffy powder obtain from a source(you do the math). Very bitter, weighed out the material myself at 300mg, a nearly full horse capsule. Material quite active, but at a level that makes sense for 300mg of mescaline. Beautiful trip, but that's another story.

It sure is a thing I think the confusion come from all the people calling NBOMe tabs "synthetic mescaline".


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemicro
bunbun has a gungun
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City Flag
Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: Ogla] * 1
    #23058383 - 03/29/16 10:08 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mrnye said:
1. 1000g of 3,4,5TMB is mixed with 280ml Nitromethane and 2100ml EtOH  in one container...

<snipped>




This, totally. Sounds spot-on.

Aldehyde to the beta-unsaturated nitrostyrene and subsequent reduction.

There are more ways to reduce nitrostyrenes, and there are enough resources on this.

Al/Hg might be the easiest in a clandestine environment, but you can use LiAlH4 with syringes and septum bottles.

As someone said, the aldehyde is readily available, so no need for this gallic acid synth from the rhodium archives.

THAT would be hard and a royal pain in the ass.

Even if you can't get syringaldehyde, there are a number of ways to produce: the above, via a Duff Reaction with 3,4,5-timethoxybenzene, or reduction and subsequent esterification of Gallic Acid, or a number of other ways.

Quote:

losfreddy said:
nitromethane is an engine fuel if im not mistaken, available @ 100% purity online... (made from propane and nitric acid i think)...




You wouldn't want to make it this way, as you would get a bunch of things that are hard to separate.

I think the easiest ways would be methylamine + HNO2 ===> NOMe or MeOH === HI ===> MeI === AgNO2 ===> NOMe, but there are many others.

Quote:

losfreddy said:
cyclohexylamine can b bought from chem suppliers online.. (made from cyclohexane which is made thru organic synthesis of benzene with hydroiodic acid?)




I would probably make it from an aromatic precursors so you don't have to worry about catalytic hydrogenation at 300C...

For example, you could nitrate benzene with H2SO4 and HNO3 to get nitrobenzene and then reduce that.

Quote:

losfreddy said:
these chems dissolved in acetic acid (vinegar),  heated for 1 hour... mixed with water (which make crystal fall out); filter crystals,  redissolve and recrystallize in methanol.. (<- makes beta-nitro-3,4,5-trimethoxystyrene)..




You want to use NaOH or KOH before any acid to get the beta-unsaturated compound.

Also, I would not recommend using vinegar. Use HCl, instead.

Quote:

losfreddy said:
reflux above crystals in ether + Lithium aluminium hydride (available online)..  can b refluxed in Soxhlet extraction condenser




Not sure why the soxhlet extractor, but whatever you use PLEASE don't do this unless you know what you are doing.

Fine LiAlH4 will rapidly ignite in humid air.

Quote:

losfreddy said:
"Gallic acid is found in almost all plants. Plants known for their high gallic acid content include gallnuts, grapes, tea, hops and oak bark."




Just hydrolyze tannic acid and distill, I think that should work.


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Mescaline + Shrooms
( 1 2 all )
laxisfun 4,611 26 01/25/11 08:20 PM
by thedream
* Mescaline Vs. LSD
( 1 2 all )
Robo 7,450 26 08/20/18 11:48 AM
by Epistrophy
* Free Mescaline fresh313 5,313 13 07/12/15 04:47 AM
by Albertnewbie1
* Does Mescaline have a similar toxicity profile to MDMA? ShroomDoom 3,906 13 09/17/09 03:38 PM
by ReoSpeedwagon153
* Why is pure mescaline rare ?
( 1 2 all )
Redsmurf 6,736 20 02/12/09 10:24 PM
by Indigenous
* Mescaline: One question. RandallFlagg 1,289 14 01/30/09 08:37 PM
by Innoculus
* mescaline tolerance after a verry weak trip day_tripper 4,258 8 06/23/13 03:22 AM
by 318lettersandnumbe
* Mescaline + Amphetamine
( 1 2 all )
starfirex 8,211 39 10/21/09 02:41 PM
by switchy85

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: psilocybinjunkie, Rose, mushboy, LogicaL Chaos, Northerner, bodhisatta
19,538 topic views. 2 members, 37 guests and 10 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.033 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 12 queries.