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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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these medicines are not toys! 1
#14457719 - 05/15/11 05:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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am i the only one here who thinks we don't know what the fuck we are doing?
mushrooms, cacti, ayahuasca vines, man made dmt!? these things are sacred. i know alot of people respect and use them responsibly but even then it is not enough. if we knew how deep the rabbit hole really goes i doubt anyone would even dare using them without an experienced pilot. when i say an experienced pilot im talking about someone who has inherited knowledge from his ancestors that go back thousands of years. maybe even a 100 years of working with such medicines is not enough. im sure it took thousands of years to perfect such wisdom, but yet here we are trying these things as if we are starting from scratch. we trip a few hundred times and we think we know everything, but it takes much MUCH more than that. I know some of you might be thinking "so what!" "we are enjoying life" etc..but...but.. we know very little and we might just be doing more damage to our selfs or others. All im trying to say is that maybe we should be more cautious about our actions. I see around this forum and i read about people's trips and they are fun to read but in my eyes it is like a bunch of kids running around playing in a playground. or i read about others trying to extract dmt or trying other dangerous or unknown substances they know little about and im like wtf!? do they have any idea what they are doing!? I apologize for expressing my opinion, this is a great forum and i love it, but i feel people are over looking many important factors which need to be examined and thought about intensely. some of these medicines are very powerful and im sure many have had their eyes and hearts cleansed even without an experience healer, but i ask you this, when will it be enough? I understand though and its kool do what you want to do, but be aware and at least think about what im saying here, some of you probably already have, and just be careful. i speak from the heart which is why i didn't think much about saying it or not, i just did it.
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Gibson33



Registered: 06/11/10
Posts: 400
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: these medicines are not toys! [Re: zZZz]
#14457733 - 05/15/11 05:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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How are we going to learn if we don't take risks?
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Gotlib



Registered: 05/01/11
Posts: 7,643
Loc:
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Re: these medicines are not toys! *DELETED* [Re: zZZz]
#14457737 - 05/15/11 05:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Butt-HeadReason for deletion: heha
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sporesmores420
SillyPsybin



Registered: 06/01/10
Posts: 829
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: these medicines are not toys! [Re: zZZz]
#14457758 - 05/15/11 05:47 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zZZz said: am i the only one here who thinks we don't know what the fuck we are doing?
mushrooms, cacti, ayahuasca vines, man made dmt!? these things are sacred. i know alot of people respect and use them responsibly but even then it is not enough. if we knew how deep the rabbit hole really goes i doubt anyone would even dare using them without an experienced pilot. when i say an experienced pilot im talking about someone who has inherited knowledge from his ancestors that go back thousands of years. maybe even a 100 years of working with such medicines is not enough. im sure it took thousands of years to perfect such wisdom, but yet here we are trying these things as if we are starting from scratch. we trip a few hundred times and we think we know everything, but it takes much MUCH more than that. I know some of you might be thinking "so what!" "we are enjoying life" etc..but...but.. we know very little and we might just be doing more damage to our selfs or others. All im trying to say is that maybe we should be more cautious about our actions. I see around this forum and i read about people's trips and they are fun to read but in my eyes it is like a bunch of kids running around playing in a playground. or i read about others trying to extract dmt or trying other dangerous or unknown substances they know little about and im like wtf!? do they have any idea what they are doing!? I apologize for expressing my opinion, this is a great forum and i love it, but i feel people are over looking many important factors which need to be examined and thought about intensely. some of these medicines are very powerful and im sure many have had their eyes and hearts cleansed even without an experience healer, but i ask you this, when will it be enough? I understand though and its kool do what you want to do, but be aware and at least think about what im saying here, some of you probably already have, and just be careful. i speak from the heart which is why i didn't think much about saying it or not, i just did it.

Whats this guy tripping on?
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status_quoe
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 98
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: these medicines are not toys! [Re: Gotlib]
#14457780 - 05/15/11 05:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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if u keep doing drugs ull end up like me and have special powers and stuff
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Dawks
Jolly African Potato


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4,935
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Re: these medicines are not toys! [Re: zZZz] 1
#14457804 - 05/15/11 05:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zZZz said: I apologize for expressing my opinion
You should never feel the need to do that.
Where do you think ancient shamans got their knowledge from? if you trace it right right back to the beginning they were just as clueless as we are. Someone accidently ate a mushroom he found one day and was like 
That man spent the rest of his life experimenting and learning about that mushroom and before he died he passed his knowledge on to the next shaman. Over time, incremental knowledge led to the very effective use of entheogens because each generation added a little bit more to the experience.
The revolution of the mind that occured in the 1960's failed because people were blasting off into hyperspace without being prepared and without knowing what to do. They ended up crashing back down earth and being forced to become contributing members of society.
Things are different now. We have the internet. And while knowledge of these substances is still widely supressesed, we are now able to start building it again using websites like the shroomery, and erowid.
Think about it, look at all the stuff we know now, things like the lemon tek, MAOI's, set and setting, trip sitting, music - We know a hell of a lot more now than we did in the 60s and as time goes on more and more will be discovered.
I understand what you're saying, but the fact of the matter is: people like us are that "experienced pilot". Sure there are many people in society who take these drugs just for fun but places like the shroomery are more than that. We are the shamans of the 21st century.
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orison
mcfluffysugarnuts


Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 5,468
Last seen: 25 days, 4 hours
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Re: these medicines are not toys! [Re: Dawks]
#14457815 - 05/15/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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youll never learn to cook for yourself, mommy is not going to be around forever. Neither will that dip shit on the corner selling drugs.. you got to start somewhere..
Oh look a vagina..
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fatppl12

Registered: 04/23/11
Posts: 811
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Re: these medicines are not toys! [Re: zZZz]
#14457832 - 05/15/11 05:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zZZz said: am i the only one here who thinks we don't know what the fuck we are doing?
mushrooms, cacti, ayahuasca vines, man made dmt!? these things are sacred. i know alot of people respect and use them responsibly but even then it is not enough. if we knew how deep the rabbit hole really goes i doubt anyone would even dare using them without an experienced pilot. when i say an experienced pilot im talking about someone who has inherited knowledge from his ancestors that go back thousands of years. maybe even a 100 years of working with such medicines is not enough. im sure it took thousands of years to perfect such wisdom, but yet here we are trying these things as if we are starting from scratch. we trip a few hundred times and we think we know everything, but it takes much MUCH more than that. I know some of you might be thinking "so what!" "we are enjoying life" etc..but...but.. we know very little and we might just be doing more damage to our selfs or others. All im trying to say is that maybe we should be more cautious about our actions. I see around this forum and i read about people's trips and they are fun to read but in my eyes it is like a bunch of kids running around playing in a playground. or i read about others trying to extract dmt or trying other dangerous or unknown substances they know little about and im like wtf!? do they have any idea what they are doing!? I apologize for expressing my opinion, this is a great forum and i love it, but i feel people are over looking many important factors which need to be examined and thought about intensely. some of these medicines are very powerful and im sure many have had their eyes and hearts cleansed even without an experience healer, but i ask you this, when will it be enough? I understand though and its kool do what you want to do, but be aware and at least think about what im saying here, some of you probably already have, and just be careful. i speak from the heart which is why i didn't think much about saying it or not, i just did it.


First, learn how to divide a thought into coherent paragraphs so others can actually take the time to read and enjoy your flow.
Second, unfortunately, in this case, your flow was not enjoyable. This is because it is tired preaching, innate knowledge we already are aware of.
You presume far too much, how dare you? - a clear sign of a lack of maturity and an obtrusive ego.
I think you've got a great mind and a lot of potential - but, I'm sorry, this is needless criticism.
Not "wise words".
Edited by fatppl12 (05/15/11 06:00 PM)
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JustinJohn
Wizard



Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 107
Loc: California
Last seen: 11 years, 30 days
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I agree, but not everyone has access to shaman teachers, a lot of cultures have deleted them from existence. The only way to bring them back is to start from scratch and learn for yourself and from peers. Im willing to be a test dummy for my children and their children to learn from.
I agree, people experimenting with these dimensions should be careful. But dont stop exploring just because we dont have someone with a map to show us the way. We know the risks. Without a pilot we may not find the treasure we are looking for, but we can at least map out as much of this terrain as we can, that way future generations may be able to find it.
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LanLord
Stranger


Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 1,763
Loc: San Mateo, Ca. USA
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: these medicines are not toys! [Re: Gibson33]
#14457989 - 05/15/11 06:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gibson33 said: How are we going to learn if we don't take risks?
I strongly agree with this.
I don't disagree completely with the OP however. These are very powerful substances. They should not be toyed with. Healthy respect along with a sincere desire to learn what they tools can do as well as what our brains are capable of are a good approach to dealing with these substances.
I don't think I'd turn down having someone with millennia of knowledge in their background, but that is highly unlikely, at least here in mainland USA, and I'm not going to travel to central Mexico or some other area where that knowledge exists.
Caution and responsible testing is how I intend to proceed.
-------------------- Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment.
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gabbaganchi
version 4.3



Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 590
Loc: Great Plains
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: these medicines are not toys! [Re: LanLord]
#14458169 - 05/15/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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we're still talking about some of the chemically safest substances known to man... THC, psilocybin, LSD are all non-toxic or at least only in improbable amounts.
as for our play. what is life when it isn't really survival? in this hour of effortless plenty, at least for those of us who can afford computers and non-consumptive psychedelic habits, we can only be meaningful if we're playful. how else are we to take care of our bodies? who says psychic play is any less exercise?
anything can be over-used. but they aren't going to destroy us if we know our own personal limits. personally, i've only been able to "go my deepest" when i was in solitude.
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bholzer
quasi-scientist



Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 2,409
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: these medicines are not toys! [Re: gabbaganchi]
#14458209 - 05/15/11 06:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
gabbaganchi said:
we're still talking about some of the chemically safest substances known to man... THC, psilocybin, LSD are all non-toxic or at least only in improbable amounts.
as for our play. what is life when it isn't really survival? in this hour of effortless plenty, at least for those of us who can afford computers and non-consumptive psychedelic habits, we can only be meaningful if we're playful. how else are we to take care of our bodies? who says psychic play is any less exercise?
anything can be over-used. but they aren't going to destroy us if we know our own personal limits. personally, i've only been able to "go my deepest" when i was in solitude.
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Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Re: these medicines are not toys! [Re: zZZz]
#14458248 - 05/15/11 07:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zZZz said: when i say an experienced pilot im talking about someone who has inherited knowledge from his ancestors that go back thousands of years. maybe even a 100 years of working with such medicines is not enough. im sure it took thousands of years to perfect such wisdom, but yet here we are trying these things as if we are starting from scratch. we trip a few hundred times and we think we know everything, but it takes much MUCH more than that.
Inherited knowledge about psychedelics from ancestors? Wisdom and insights about these drugs from shamans? Experienced pilots who know a thing or two about navigating these waters, eh?
That's kinda like asking the homeless wino on skid row to teach you all he knows about getting drunk.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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Distorted Vision
The best. Of the worst.



Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 4,292
Loc: Indiana
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Re: these medicines are not toys! [Re: LanLord]
#14458252 - 05/15/11 07:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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You give substances and beliefs a bad name. You say this as if it's a fact... The only way you could say this is if indeed you are one of those beings with these sacred answers. And because, you say kool and relate to Alice in the Wonderland, I feel that you're not even trying to be taken as serious(which I wish you weren't). Go spread your "unique" thoughts somewhere else.
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"Yo yo just here to spread my clit and show ya'll what a wonderful and free being we are all inside lets take the acid and turn inside into the outside come on over baby lets smell the roses ohh ohh come on we're about to get lit show my undies to your baby I'll hug it down three times go around frown come on we aint a nice clown kiss me upside down down down come on sorry if you cant handle my wokeness come on lets take her panties off write shroomery on my asshole and taste it lick it make if feel like we was 1978 come on baby lets do the locamotion"-Twig dude
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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The title of this thread should be,"These toys are not medicines!"
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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bholzer
quasi-scientist



Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 2,409
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: these medicines are not toys! [Re: joemolloy]
#14458285 - 05/15/11 07:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
joemolloy said: The title of this thread should be,"These toys are not medicines!"

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Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.
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Nunbuh_Chrubble
I'm just a kittycat


Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 3,534
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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I agree (mostly) with zZZz. Psychedelics are too often treated as though they were toys. That's not to say that we shouldn't enjoy tripping, but most people don't really understand what they're getting into and then come crying when they have a little bit of anxiety or get possessed by some entity...
I'd like to see our society take a more mature and structured approach to psychedelic use, BUT the truth is that we have been disconnected from shamanic traditions, and, like another user said, we ARE the experienced pilots. But unfortunately because of the current drug war we aren't allowed to be open and help people in the kind of way that is actually necessary (providing safe spaces and guidance for psychedelic initiation, providing access to safe substances, etc).
So instead we have to operate through the internet. And sites like these are really the best thing we've got right now.
Also, I have to disagree about relying on "shamans". I don't think that anybody should stand between you and the divine. I'm a spiritual anarchist, and while I encourage respect for the knowledgeable guidance of the wise and experienced, I also think that any kind of spiritual authority needs to be bocked at and put in it's proper place. Theres too much potential for exploitation and mindfuckery when you combine authority with mind altering drugs.
Really I think that the system we've got now is opening up and spreading a lot of the information which used to be hidden, and that this is a good thing. Peer to peer guidance is much better, IMO, than authoritative, paternalistic, and secretive guidance.
I think that festivals and gatherings are the remergence/reconstruction/refounding of a psychedelic tradition which reflects this peer-to-peer ethic. So lets focus our energies on creating NEW structures/traditions instead of trying to dig up fossils and imitate ancient traditions which we don't understand and are irrelevant to our current society.
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"This day is a lover..." ~Rumi
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gnome respect
Gnomer



Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 56
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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we are the psychonauts. nobody else is going to do research on the substances for us. promoting awareness of these medicines effects and spreading useful knowledge about our experiences with them....
sure, there are young and old alike that should not ever even think about using a psychoactive but who are we to judge?
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fatppl12

Registered: 04/23/11
Posts: 811
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Can we let this thread die, just this once.
Please?
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ChronicSmoke
wanderer


Registered: 02/25/11
Posts: 538
Loc: On the Moon
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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How can anyone inherit knowledge without experiencing it first hand?
And are you my mom?
Thats what I thought.
-------------------- This is a public computer, 1,000's of people use it everyday this isn't me typing this. I dont even know how I got on this site, how the hell do I even work this computer.
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