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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: thinking about the war... [Re: ]
    #1448763 - 04/11/03 04:30 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

it's only way we can come out on top of this and say, "you see skeptics, this was right all along."




No, you do not have to wait for the results to judge whether something is right or wrong.

Quote:

ok, oil certainly has something to do with this. yes, the war is being sold to the american public by shameless propaganda. yes, perhaps the case for WMDs is a flimsy one.





Intention is important. Any good that comes out of bad intention will surely not be long lasting.

Just because a war can be judged a success in the eyes of the aggressor does not make it "right"

You are trying awfully hard to justify this arent you?


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Offlinezeronio
Stranger
Male

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: thinking about the war... [Re: ]
    #1448773 - 04/11/03 04:39 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

time will tell whether this war was smart or foolish, and right or wrong. 




Probably something in between, closer to foolish then to smart. :wink:

What about tons od depleted uranium released?
What about Kurds? Turkey already announced intervention in northern Iraq if Kurds liberate Kirkuk. Will they be liberated too or will coalition friends continue to perform genocide on them?
Iraq is drifting in chaos. The shiite leader was killed as soon as he arrived back.
I'm afraid that those that are cheering now will soon realize that it will take years before their destroyed & contaminted country becomes normal.

If I lived in Iraq and couldn't leave the country under Saddam - I would certainly do it now. 


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: thinking about the war... [Re: ]
    #1448784 - 04/11/03 04:49 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

This is what I think :

From Peace walk & rally, San Francisco
Stephen Vincent
If You Are Not Outraged
You Are Not Paying Attention

No Blood for Oil
Did Your Car Start This Walk?
How Many Lives Per Gallon?
Go Solar Not Ballistic
Start Drafting SUV Drivers Now

Bush on Crack
Don?t Attack Iraq
Somewhere in Texas
A Village (Crawford)
Is Missing An Idiot

Clone Change Needed:
A Heart for Cheney
A Brain for Bush
Courage for Powell

War Is A Tragedy
Not A Strategy
War Orphans Make
Great Terrorists

Homeland Insecurity
January 18, 2003


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: thinking about the war... [Re: GazzBut]
    #1448901 - 04/11/03 07:31 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

let me ask you something. did you READ what i wrote?

what i'm saying is that if this whole thing isn't bad for the iraqi people, then it's pretty fucking hard to make the case that it's morally wrong to do what we're doing here.

if the ba'ath regime are the only ones getting fucked, and the iraqi people really are being liberated here, and the US really is going to make like better for the iraqi people, who the fuck cares if "it's all about oil"?

if this war makes life better for the iraqi people, and brings them freedom, then who cares if the poor ba'ath party got taken down? boo hoo. the ba'ath party violated their surrender agreements. they aren't owed any right to exist. the iraqi people on the other hand, must not be victims. that would be wrong. if they make it out ontop after all of this (and i do think they will), then how was this a "crime"? who was the unfortunate innocent victim?

yes, the eventual outcome DOES affect whether or this was right or wrong.

alas, i suppose reason is lost on you.


Edited by mushmaster (04/11/03 07:41 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: thinking about the war... [Re: GazzBut]
    #1448917 - 04/11/03 07:50 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

and additionally, it may help you to know that i used to feel the same way as you about this war. i thought it was a crime. i did think that the iraqi people were getting screwed over here. but i don't think they are now, and so, i've had to go back and change my mind about something... the idea that this war is unjust.

the idea that the war is unjust hinges upon the assumption that the war is bad for the iraqi people. i no longer believe that to be true.

if you think that the war is bad for the iraqi people, then of course you should think of it as unjust. in that case it is unjust. the state of the iraqi people a few years from now will tell us whether or not this was right or wrong.

i still think that the war was a stupid idea. i just don't think it was unjust. i point you to the thread, "a serious question concerning iraqi oil".


Edited by mushmaster (04/11/03 07:53 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: thinking about the war... [Re: GazzBut]
    #1448933 - 04/11/03 08:09 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

and you know what?

i know that there's a possible argument against what i'm saying....

because you won't figure it out on your own, i'll tell you what it is.

you're just gonna try to prove the the argument "this war is bad for the iraqis"... which will get you nowhere.

i'll tell you where i'm wrong. this war can be morally wrong for other reasons then the iraqis getting fucked over. even if the iraqis make it out ontop, it can still be said that is was morally wrong for our leaders to throw a wrench in the international peace-keeping mechanism the way they did. it can be said that it was morally wrong for them to take such a gamble with america. these are reasons why it can be said to be morally wrong.

maybe it doesn't just boil down to the iraqi people and whether they win or lose.

the argument that the war is immoral based upon the what's happening to the iraqi people, is totally dependant on what's happening to the iraqi people. that's what i'm trying to say here.


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