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OfflineRourkeAnderson
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Active Coleus VS Non-Active
    #14452900 - 05/14/11 06:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I've heard alot of talk about the potential activity of coleus, some people claiming anything from mild sedation to right out CEV's and color shifting. I have a theory. That theory is that, the Coleus Blumei that originated as a pure strain is in fact active, but the inbred poor quality garden store Coleus has a much lower percentage of Actives because its been bred for growth and other non-entheogenic characteristics.

I am going to be testing this as such:

I have been growing two types of coleus. The standard (Coleus Rainbow Pack) which is typical poor quality garden store stuff, as well as a special order (And more expensive) version straight from New Zealand. At first this might seem odd, but this vendor whose name I forgot, was the only one who used Coleus Blumei (Solenostemon scutellarioides) as its name on the packaging and website. Interesting considering how rare it is to see something properly labeled. This might not mean anything, but couple it with the growth characteristics and I may just be onto something.


FIRST: There was a large enough difference in the seedling to warrant some significant attention.

Here is one 15 day old Coleus Blumei Seedling:





And here is one 12 day old Coleus Generic Pack Seedling:





Notice a significant difference?
(Hard to tell size-wise with the root shots, but the generic coleus is nearly 5x larger in leaf/shoot size than the NZ coleus)

The roots of the much smaller coleus are HUGE, nearly an inch+ for some of them, whereas the roots of the larger generic coleus are tiny, a quarter the length of the plant.
Also, the generic coleus that was sown 3 days after the first NZ seed pack, have grown almost twice the size. It would occur the me that the NZ coleus (1st pic) do not have the growth characteristics that the Generic store-bought ones do. (As a note, these guys were grown in the same tray, with the same lighting, and identical conditions.) Which would bring to me the theory that the NZ ones are a more pure strain of original coleus, whereas the Generic seedpack ones are crossbred for growing genetics.

Keep in mind that ALL of this is speculation, and perhaps a good deal of optimism, but I will make a strong effort to test these two varieties as soon as they are big enough to harvest and have a post dedicated to the different effects of these... strains?

Another sidenote, these observations ring true for all 400-ish coleus that have sprouted. I planted 250 seeds of each, and had a 90-ish percent germ rate (Holy crap).


So my hypothesis is as such: The coleus that were labelled properly, have shown much slower growth characteristics, but much larger root structures, and are therefore much more likely to be a closer strain to the original coleus used by the Mazatec natives. The generic coleus however shows all the signs of being designer bred for small roots and fast growth, has potentially lost off of its active components during the breeding process.

I will keep y'all updated as the little buggers grow.

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Offlineoverstand
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: RourkeAnderson]
    #14453089 - 05/14/11 07:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Interesting post! I have been wondering if coleus was indeed active. I am growing a bunch of it. Richard Schultes mentioned coleus in one of his books on hallucinogenic plants but he did not go into great detail.


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“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.” - Henry David Thoreau

Edited by overstand (05/15/11 12:19 AM)

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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: overstand]
    #14455438 - 05/15/11 09:32 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm supposed to have some of these on the way. We will see. I had to try it after reading a bit too. That is if the assholes I ordered my seeds from actually send them. It was a larger site that I hadn't used before. They have a PayPal account so I fugured that it would be legit but its been a little over two weeks and no e-mail response or package. Sorry too rant, just pissed.


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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking

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OfflineRourkeAnderson
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #14457561 - 05/15/11 05:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Haha, don't apologize, I'm sure we'll all be frustrated about online suppliers at some point! If you ever get those seeds I'd love to know what characteristics they show once they're large enough to tell =).

(Hyper Optimism) If these NZ ones turn out to be active, yall can be assured there will be cuttings and seeds for EVERYONE on shroomery that'd like em.

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OfflineDscid
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: RourkeAnderson]
    #14458601 - 05/15/11 07:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'll keep that in mind :wink:  Until then...when searching for Coleus Blumei, there are so many different seed types...what should I be on the lookout for?

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OfflineRourkeAnderson
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: Dscid]
    #14459112 - 05/15/11 09:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Anything that can tie the coleus back to their Mazatec roots. Proper latin naming on the package, location, strain. Basically details that can give us slight hope that it is a variety closest to the ones of native origin.

Again, this is a wild goose chase at best, but it's fun, and there isn't much of a monetary risk ^_^.

Edit: Not a wind goose, a wild one. Quite a difference -_-

Edited by RourkeAnderson (05/16/11 12:14 AM)

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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: RourkeAnderson]
    #14460016 - 05/15/11 11:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah hopefully they are just being flakey hippies or something. I could find the Coleus seeds elsewhere but I want my South American Acacia seeds damn it! I'm guessing that the right sort of these are active. I am stoked to experiment. If we find ones that are, I wonder if the activity could be readily bred for..


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking

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Invisiblecc2
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #14461083 - 05/16/11 08:24 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I strongly doubt that coleus blumei is native to Mexico.

I probably also read somewhere it's native to Java and was introduced around 17th in south america.

source

on top of that even its psychedelic activity is questioned and unclear.

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Offlinesheepherder
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: cc2]
    #14461626 - 05/16/11 11:37 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Interesting. I had no idea that Coleus was active. I'm growing a mix of many different kinds of Coleus right now.


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[quote]How ignorant is a government who seeks to eradicate and demonize a harmless plant, as if there is something feloniously wrong with nature.[/quote].
The cannabis plant is a greater gift from nature than all of the plants on earth combined. It's uses and benefits are vast and many, and it exists, so obviously, for mankind to use for all it has to offer.[gradient:#C7D4C8,#][/gradient]

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Offlinesheepherder
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: sheepherder]
    #14461637 - 05/16/11 11:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

They are growing veeeryy slowly. They are finally about an in. tall after about a month.


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[quote]How ignorant is a government who seeks to eradicate and demonize a harmless plant, as if there is something feloniously wrong with nature.[/quote].
The cannabis plant is a greater gift from nature than all of the plants on earth combined. It's uses and benefits are vast and many, and it exists, so obviously, for mankind to use for all it has to offer.[gradient:#C7D4C8,#][/gradient]

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InvisibleSimisu
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: sheepherder]
    #14488335 - 05/21/11 04:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i was watching some talk with Terence Mckenna yesterday in which he mentioned coleus to be highly active, erowid says ¨It has been used by the Mazatec indians of Oaxaca as a replacement for S. divinorum, though little is known about its effects or active chemicals.¨

i´m guessing it´s to be smoked?

i´ve heard people on Shroomery mention coleus but always as just a cool plant, i had no idea it was said to be active!
now i want one too :smirk:


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OfflineRourkeAnderson
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: Simisu]
    #14489076 - 05/21/11 10:32 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well, there have been lots of reports of next to nothing with store-bought generic Coleus. Thats why I'm testing a number of varieties, along with other Shroomery members. We may just stumble across an active cultivar, which would be damn amazing considering how easy coleus is to grow ^_^.

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InvisiblePoison Drink
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: Simisu]
    #14489304 - 05/21/11 11:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Interesting topic! I also planted some Coleus seeds a few days ago. No idea what 'strain' this is.

Quote:

Simisu said:
i was watching some talk with Terence Mckenna yesterday in which he mentioned coleus to be highly active




Check this video, TM mentions Coleus:


Edited by Poison Drink (05/22/11 04:32 AM)

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InvisibleSimisu
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: Poison Drink]
    #14489483 - 05/21/11 12:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

that´s the one i was talking about (more or less)
he doesn´t say much about it does he :smirk:


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InvisibleThe Phleg
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: RourkeAnderson]
    #14489504 - 05/21/11 12:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/golden_guide/g131-140.shtml#COLEUS

Quote:

COLEUS (Coleus pumas and C. blumei) is cultivated by the Mazatecs of Oaxaca, Mexico, who reputedly employ the leaves in the some way as they use the leaves of Salvia divinorum ( see p. 137) . Indeed, the Indians recognize the family relationship between these two genera of mints, both of the family Labiatae. They refer to S. divinorum as la hembra ("the female") and to C. pumilus as el macho ("the male"). There are two forms of C. blumei, which they call el niño ("the child") and el ahijado ("the godson").
  These two species are native to Asia, where they are valued in folk medicine but apparently have not been used as hallucinogens. No hallucinogenic principle hes yet been discovered in the 150 known Coleus species.




Does this help?


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InvisiblePoison Drink
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: Simisu]
    #14489955 - 05/21/11 02:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Simisu said:
he doesn´t say much about it does he :smirk:




No, but you can see how the Coleus looks like. Maybe that's helpful for this topic, since the TS was wondering which "strain" is better to use. :smile:

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OfflineRourkeAnderson
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: Poison Drink]
    #14491000 - 05/21/11 07:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Great video! That coleus looks like the standard Blumei, but I'd be willing to bet the actives in THAT one are much different than out regular home-depot brand Coleus. Hmm...

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InvisiblePoison Drink
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: RourkeAnderson]
    #14492691 - 05/22/11 04:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RourkeAnderson said:
Great video! That coleus looks like the standard Blumei, but I'd be willing to bet the actives in THAT one are much different than out regular home-depot brand Coleus. Hmm...




Well the only way for us to know is to try it out, hehe! You have these pics of around 2 weeks old Coleus. Do you mean 2 weeks after sowing or 2 weeks after germination? They grow quite fast if they're only 2 weeks old.

Oh and btw: "My bedroom is a greenhouse" -->  My kitchen, living room and bedroom is a greenhouse, lol. But that's what you do when you don't have a garden. :grin:

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InvisibleLocky
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: Poison Drink]
    #14492807 - 05/22/11 05:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i made quids out of a natural coleus like in the video. i used about 50 leaves, all in all. Nothing.... but i do think they are active if you get the right plant, a pure coleus


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InvisiblePoison Drink
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Re: Active Coleus VS Non-Active [Re: Locky]
    #14492830 - 05/22/11 06:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Locky said:
i made quids out of a natural coleus like in the video. i used about 50 leaves, all in all. Nothing.... but i do think they are active if you get the right plant, a pure coleus




Wow that sucks! Eating 50 leaves without effect.. Maybe there's an extraction technique somewhere online. I don't see mee eating 50 of those leaves, without being sure of any effect! :shocked:

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