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morninggloryseed
old hand



Registered: 09/17/00
Posts: 410
Loc: Earth
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: muistrue] 2
#14474526 - 05/18/11 05:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Guys, everything is a 'bullshit chemical.'
Alcohol (EtOH) is a bullshit chemical Mushrooms contain bullshit chemicals (tryptamines) Marijuana contains bullshit chemicals (cannabinoids)
It is not the chemicals that are the evil. It is prohibition that is evil. You can walk out of a hardware store with the ingredients to make bombs. Or a liquor store with a drug more dangerous (long term and short term) than opiates. Or buy a gun and bullets. Why ban mind-altering substances (short of nicotine, EtOH, caffeine, etc)?
If we had the ability to purchase legally produced, inspected, and verified serotonin agonists (or cocaine, or morphine, etc) from a proper brick and mortar store like you can buy guns, vodka, ammonium nitrate, and (in some states) marijuana....then the only dangers associated with these compounds would be a lack of individual responsibility on the part of the purchaser.
You don't buy a dog if you won't buy food to feed it. You don't buy a car if you don't have money to maintain it. You don't buy pure chemical compounds labeled 'not for human ingestion' if you do not have the means to test it's authenticity, weight, etc. Then make the kid down the street eat some just to be on the safe side.
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Zzzarathustra



Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 236
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: LightShedder]
#14475978 - 05/18/11 10:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
LightShedder said:
This is complete bullshit.
Are you aware of the rc market? If a vendor sells you something active in the .5 mg range and labels it as a substance active in the 10-30 mg range, it is absolutely irresponsible on the vendors part! They are well aware what their psychoactive chemicals are used for, which is why they sell them for 100+ a gram.
Irresponsible because a kid ate what was sold to him as 2c-e from a chemical vendor and ended up dying because the vendor gave him something that is deadly at that dosage
Your crazy dude.
what happened to personal responsibility ? Why do we blame others for our actions and decisions ? He chose to take a risk and he paid for it. He could've tested the drug or not taken it at all. For me, "crazy" is holding other people responsible for your own actions
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drr

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: muistrue]
#14476003 - 05/18/11 10:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
FractalDust said:
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starfire_xes said:
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drr said:
But the point is, this chemical has killed enough people, I don't see any value in it, I'd be happy to know it doesn't exist on the face of the planet and I have no chance of accidentally consuming it.
Are you talking about 2C-E? Because every single report I've seen attributing death to it ended up being something else. I've done 45mg of 2C-E while taking an MAOI--all it did was make me trip fucking balls. In fact, it was rather sedating as the trip wore on. No super-speed effects at all.
Surely he was talking about the drug that's been doing the killing, Bromo-DragonFLY, not 2C-E.
Yeah, not talking about 2c-e at all.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: drr]
#14476108 - 05/18/11 11:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Are dragonFLY and c-e similar in structure? how come companies are labeling dragonFLY as c-e? I'm not asking for dosage advice but how much more potent is FLY then c-e?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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AlmostAsCoolAs


Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 7,215
Loc: California
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#14476123 - 05/18/11 11:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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An overdose for Bromo is only a few mgs. There have been a few reports of people IVing upwards of 100mg of 2C-E and living, not that anyone should do this.
I don't know how they could mix these two chems up but a while back a vendor got Bromo thinking it was 2C-B-FLY
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muistrue
Inspired by the mystery


Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 12,899
Loc: Behind the Redwoods
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#14476129 - 05/18/11 11:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Are dragonFLY and c-e similar in structure? how come companies are labeling dragonFLY as c-e? I'm not asking for dosage advice but how much more potent is FLY then c-e?
Micrograms vs milligrams. The last time this happened I'm pretty sure it was 2C-B-FLY mislabeled not 2C-E.
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DennisWilson420



Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 53
Loc:
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: muistrue]
#14476432 - 05/19/11 12:46 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wow this is right around the time I tried 2C-I. That was a helluva trip man oh man.
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LongStrangeTrip
Deadhead


Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 5,382
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#14476984 - 05/19/11 05:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Are dragonFLY and c-e similar in structure? how come companies are labeling dragonFLY as c-e? I'm not asking for dosage advice but how much more potent is FLY then c-e?
They are not similar in structure at all....but they look exactly the same in a bag, nothing but a white powder 
Quote:
Micrograms vs milligrams. The last time this happened I'm pretty sure it was 2C-B-FLY mislabeled not 2C-E.
Yes it was 2CB-FLY labeled as bk-MDMA
-------------------- Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~ "Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~ (Grateful Dead) "o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony "Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero
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phxBoomer
Psychedelic Scientist



Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 434
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
#14477310 - 05/19/11 07:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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How many deaths were caused by alchohol overdose yesterday? How many people die from lung/heart failure directly linked to cigarette use last year?
Once you take these facts into account, a couple deaths seem inevitable... I know it sucks, but just because a couple people are reckless doesnt mean we should demonize inanimate objects like molecules.
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mongo lloyd
Lone Free Ranger



Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 9,351
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 days, 14 hours
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: phxBoomer]
#14477626 - 05/19/11 09:33 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
phxBoomer said: How many deaths were caused by alchohol overdose yesterday? How many people die from lung/heart failure directly linked to cigarette use last year?
Once you take these facts into account, a couple deaths seem inevitable... I know it sucks, but just because a couple people are reckless doesnt mean we should demonize inanimate objects like molecules.
Yes, but how many people take 2C-x's globally? Probably less than a couple hundred thousand at rough guess. Compare that with how many people drink or smoke. Of course more smokers and drinkers die per year, because there are more of them.
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dwpineal
Psychedelic Artist



Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4,667
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: phxBoomer] 2
#14477666 - 05/19/11 09:41 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
How many deaths were caused by alchohol overdose yesterday? How many people die from lung/heart failure directly linked to cigarette use last year?
I think you're missing the point. These substnaces were mis-labeled, so in your examples, it would be like someone switching out vodka for vodka flavored lye-water, and selling it in an Absolut bottle, so yeah, you drink water with a pH of 13.5 you'll probably die. Or if someone stuck a bunch of rolled up cigarettes that contained a plant that gets you high if you take one toke, but then kills you if you smoke the whole cigarette...but this is identical-looking to normal cigarettes and packaged in a factory sealed wrapper...
Your knowledge of the uses and safety of vodka and cigarettes would be invalid since you are actually ingesting my imaginary poisonous substances.
I know its a stretch, but I'm trying to put this into perspective...
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Quake3
Total Carbohydrate




Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 924
Loc: Relatively New York
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: dwpineal] 2
#14477890 - 05/19/11 10:44 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's a shame because the 2C* family of drugs weren't high up on the DEA's radar until the recent 2C-E overdoses.
I love 2C-I. It's one of my favorite drugs and I love the fact that it is so versatile. In low doses (7-10mg sublingual) it's an empathogen and makes me very energetic, social and confident. In higher doses (20-30mg oral) it can be very intense and comes and goes in waves, but I have never really had a "bad trip" on it. It's easy to manage and is an excellent introduction to psychedelics for new psychonauts and makes a decent recreational psychedelic (both at 15mg per 150lb body weight.)
2C-E isn't recreational but shares many of the qualities of 2C-I. Anyway.
Early on when I found a supplier, I observed the smell/taste/look of the 2Cs. My current Chinese supplier seems to have very high quality powders and I've had no problems whatsoever. Due to the shady vendors and lack of quality control, you NEED TO TEST EVERY SINGLE BATCH.
I make sure to test out new batches on myself before giving them out. And when giving out to new people, I give them a tiny amount to lick to make sure they aren't allergic.
There are reports of people online surviving 100mg+ doses of 2C-I so I was skeptical of 2C-E causing deaths, especially given my extensive experience with it and 2C-I at various doses to dozens and dozens of people who are sensitive to psychedelics and experienced psychonauts.
Does anyone know of the chemistry of 2C-E and Bromo-DragonFLY? Perhaps BDF or something like it is a contamination in the 2C-E synthesis, or more likely some of the same precursors are used for both so that both drugs can be found in close proximity together in RC labs and so may have been mislabeled? This happened with 2C-B and now a number of times with the 2Cs.. yet I don't know of any supplier who actually has Bromo-DragonFLY. It was my assumption that this chemical requires a lot more experience to synthesize and has never been that popular for this reason and due to its price. The 2Cs seem more trivial and have a much higher demand, and so I wonder why these vendors have Bromo to begin with. Was there an old supplier who gave it out for cheap and so people stocked up and are now banking on the current RC trends?
At least dilute the damn chemical so that a dose of bromo is equivalent to a safe 2C-E/I dose.
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muistrue
Inspired by the mystery


Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 12,899
Loc: Behind the Redwoods
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
#14478402 - 05/19/11 12:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
LongStrangeTrip said:
Quote:
Micrograms vs milligrams. The last time this happened I'm pretty sure it was 2C-B-FLY mislabeled not 2C-E.
Yes it was 2CB-FLY labeled as bk-MDMA
Really? I thought it was Bromo-DragonFLY mislabeled as 2C-B-FLY.
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LongStrangeTrip
Deadhead


Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 5,382
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: muistrue]
#14478420 - 05/19/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
FractalDust said:
Quote:
LongStrangeTrip said:
Quote:
Micrograms vs milligrams. The last time this happened I'm pretty sure it was 2C-B-FLY mislabeled not 2C-E.
Yes it was 2CB-FLY labeled as bk-MDMA
Really? I thought it was Bromo-DragonFLY mislabeled as 2C-B-FLY.
I just looked it up on erowid and yes you are right about that!
-------------------- Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~ "Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~ (Grateful Dead) "o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony "Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero
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mellowparty
legitimate researcher


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 18,467
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: muistrue]
#14478468 - 05/19/11 12:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
FractalDust said:
Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Are dragonFLY and c-e similar in structure? how come companies are labeling dragonFLY as c-e? I'm not asking for dosage advice but how much more potent is FLY then c-e?
Micrograms vs milligrams. The last time this happened I'm pretty sure it was 2C-B-FLY mislabeled not 2C-E.
I think it was Br-DrFLY instead of 2C-B-FLY.
If I ever buy an RC I'll surelly assay a microbump before I plunge into it.
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dwpineal
Psychedelic Artist



Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4,667
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: mellowparty]
#14478885 - 05/19/11 02:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I saw someone post an idea like that on here the other day and I thought it was really smart;
Treat every RC you get as if it was accidentally switched with Bromo-Dragonfly. Try out a Mg, or a little spec, and see what happens before you just assume it is okay and take X number of Mgs...
EDIT Found it:
Quote:
LightShedder said: I'd say either one of the following greatly reduces the risk associated with rc's, providing you do your own research and dose responsibly
A. Check your substances melting point and match it up with desired compound B. Test out everything as though it's accidentally BDF C. Synth your own, or know a very trusted chemist
Otherwise your pretty much taking a risk.
Edited by dwpineal (05/19/11 02:19 PM)
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Mr E Guest
partly animal



Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 635
Loc: 404: not found
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: Quake3] 1
#14479647 - 05/19/11 04:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quake3 said:
Does anyone know of the chemistry of 2C-E and Bromo-DragonFLY? Perhaps BDF or something like it is a contamination in the 2C-E synthesis, or more likely some of the same precursors are used for both so that both drugs can be found in close proximity together in RC labs and so may have been mislabeled? This happened with 2C-B and now a number of times with the 2Cs.. yet I don't know of any supplier who actually has Bromo-DragonFLY. It was my assumption that this chemical requires a lot more experience to synthesize and has never been that popular for this reason and due to its price. The 2Cs seem more trivial and have a much higher demand, and so I wonder why these vendors have Bromo to begin with. Was there an old supplier who gave it out for cheap and so people stocked up and are now banking on the current RC trends?
At least dilute the damn chemical so that a dose of bromo is equivalent to a safe 2C-E/I dose.
Similarity of the syntheses would depend on the point from which you were starting. If you had two compounds which could respectively be reductively aminated to 2C-E or BromoDFLY then it would be possible to make the 'wrong' compound by mixing up the starting materials - by taking the wrong pot off the shelf, for example. If you were starting from hydroquinone then the two syntheses would be different to the point of being impossible to mix up, apart from the aforementioned final step.
It may well be the case that the manufacturer of the substance has numerous precursors lined up - one for 2C-E, one for 2C-B, one for Br-DFLY, etc. - all awaiting that final synthetic step. Then it would be merely a matter of time before some careless and/or inexperienced lab technician mixed up the bottles and made the wrong compound. If 2C-E was made instead of 2C-I, then the final purchasers would likely not even notice. But when Br-DFLY gets out there - well, that stuff is plain fucking dangerous. Would the manufacturer even bother to analyze the final product?
We could be charitable and put it down to human error, which is still inexcusable on the part of the manufacturer to send out the wrong compound. Even if it were not consumed, having the wrong substance in a reaction could be literally devastating in a chemical laboratory.
Then there is the possibility that the manufacturer was merely unscrupulous and happy to make money selling dodgy "RC"s to anyone concerned. Maybe they ran short of 2C-E and thought, "Fuck it, we've got a load of that Br-DFLY laying around that no-one wants to buy any more, we'll just send that out instead." Whether they knew of its low and narrow dose range or not affects just how malicious they might be seen to be.
Then there is the possibility of something more sinister. How possible is it that a government might quite happily condone the selling of noxious materials, including Br-DFLY to name but one, for the purpose of weakening the countries in which these substances are purchased? Don't try and tell me that there aren't other substances - coincidentally manufactured in China for the most part - that are sold, tacitly or otherwise, as "things that get you high" which can quite easily fuck you up in a bad way. Just take a look at mephedrone and its cousins, and the "Eric" series. By the way, my perspective is one of looking at psychochemical geopolitics, as opposed to some anti-Chinese rant!
-------------------- Be joyful. This could be the only chance you get. All of the above posts are the fevered imaginings of a deluded mind, itself entirely the fictional creation of a somewhat peculiar author with a bizarre sense of humour.
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Zzzarathustra



Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 236
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: Mr E Guest]
#14481455 - 05/19/11 10:18 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I see no one wants to talk about personal responsibility, it's so much easier to blame everybody else
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German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid



Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: Zzzarathustra] 1
#14482520 - 05/20/11 02:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Have you been following the discussion at all? The substance was mislabelled as something active in the 2 or 3 figure mg range when in reality that substance in the bag was extremely toxic to lethal in that range. The young people who bought and consumed it were not chemists and had no testing kit. Sure, it's easy to say "they should have gotten some test kits". Right. Like we all did when we were kids and got a hold of some drugs to party on a weekend. I fondly remember everyone getting out their test kits before consuming anything. Like for example I'd test my beer if it had the right alcohol content as stated on the bottle, too.</sarcasm>
Personal responsibility is not drinking 5 bottles of vodka. But drinking a glass of vodka expecting to have a good time and then dying from it, because it was something else that's highly toxic even though the bottle says "vodka" it has nothing to do with "personal responsibility". They weren't irresponsible and saying it is really not doing these dead kids justice.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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Johnny Springfield
Stranger



Registered: 08/29/10
Posts: 601
Loc: Southwest Missouri
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: WARNING! Lethal Mislabeled batch of 2C-I and 2C-E Circulating! [Re: German Kahuna]
#14482545 - 05/20/11 02:38 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
German Kahuna said: They weren't irresponsible and saying it is really not doing these dead kids justice.
They might have been in one way.
Supposedly, even thinking it was 2C-E, they just eyeballed it and took around 100-150mg a piece, which would've put them in for a nightmare night even if it had been 2C-E.
The dosage for 2C-E is something they could've gotten in five seconds on Google.
If they had checked and only taken 15mg or so like they were supposed to that would've been 15mg of bromo-dragonFLY instead of 100-150mg and they all might have lived through it. Maybe not, because that's still a huge overdose, but I would definitely prefer those odds if it were me.
Edited by Johnny Springfield (05/20/11 02:39 AM)
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