Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!
Tucson SWAT Team Kills Armed Homeowner in Drug Raid May 13, 2011 - Drug War Chronicle
In a mid-morning drug raid May 5, a Pima County SWAT team executing a search warrant shot and killed a 26-year-old Afghan and Iraq war veteran after he confronted the intruders with a weapon in his hand. Jose Guerena become the 27th person to die in US domestic drug law enforcement operations so far this year.
According to the initial police account, when SWAT officers broke down the door of Guerena's home, which he shared with his wife and young child, he confronted them and opened fire. "The adult male had a long rifle, opened fire on the SWAT team. The SWAT team returned fire and the male is pronounced deceased. The woman and the child are unharmed," said Pima County Sheriff's Deputy Jason Ogan.
Six days later, police admitted that while Guerena, a former Marine, was holding an AR-15 assault rifle, the safety was on and he had not fired it. They also admitted that SWAT officers fired 71 rounds at Guerena in seven seconds. It was also later reported that even though Guerena's wife called 911 as soon as he was shot and that EMTs arrived two minutes later, deputies never allowed them to treat Guerena, citing security concerns. (Recall that in the Jared Loughner mass killing in Tucson earlier this year, EMTs were allowed to treat the wounded in a matter of minutes despite the chaos of that scene.)
In an interview with KGUN9-TV, Guerena's wife, Vanessa, explained that her husband had worked the night shift at his job at a mine and been asleep only a couple of hours when the raiders arrived. When she saw armed men in her house pointing guns at her, she said, "Please don't shoot, I have a baby…and I yell 'Jose! Jose! Wake up!'"
The SWAT team didn't identify itself before breaking in her door and entering her home, Guerena said. "You're saying only (they) yelled SWAT after the shootout?" KGUN9asked. "Oh, yes! Yes," said Guerena.
Her husband grabbed a gun to protect himself from what he thought were home invaders, she said.
Police said Guerena's home was one of four targeted in simultaneous raids and that a large amount of cash was found in one of them. It wasn't Guerena's. All they have said about what they found there was that it was "evidence pertinent to the case."
But at a Wednesday memorial service for the veteran of deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan, an attorney retained by his family, Christopher Scileppi, told FOX11-TV that Guerena was not part of any drug conspiracy. "What I do know that they collected phones, computers the family has conveyed to me that they're confident that there is nothing that will be of inculpatory incriminating information," said Scileppi.
No law suit has yet been filed, but Scileppi is laying the groundwork. "We'll be sending our investigators out to find out what the neighbors saw, what mutual observers saw because this was obviously a big deal certainly to the Pima County sheriff's office," he said.
Goddamnit. End the motherfucking war on drugs already. You're costing our citizens' and our law enforcements' time, money, and most importantly, lives. I hope they didn't find a damn thing, and the swat team gets the unholy balls sued out of them.
-------------------- There is a molecule for every purpose. There are only actions and reactions. Cut out the middle men. Everything I say is a lie.
No lawsuit...? Wont bring him back but fuck that man I would do my best to bankrupt that county. The less money they have going to trigger happy pussies the better. Arizona... America's anus..
Yeah I suppose thats true. Hopefully they all get stripped of their job or even sentenced.
To not announce yourself, bust in to someones house when they're sleeping, than light them up because he was ready to defend his family and home. They knew he was a veteran and should have beeen able to calculate how it would go down.
Wonder where all that "support the troops" bullshit is now?
Lying ass hypocrite Americans don't give a fuck about anything but their own assholes.
See what I said Alan and Doc_T? Better pick your side because the cops will bust down your doors on some bullshit and put 72 of them shits in your body.
And you'll be made to look like the monster.
Keep living that bullshit story you folks call a life. Thinking you can play both sides and come out on top.
You'll fucking get swallowed.
Can't be much more of a government slave than a veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan and what good did that get him? Not so much as a warning before they lit his government-supporting ass up.
Again: 72 times.
That's the kind of love they have for you. Check that, that's the kind of love they have for an in the trenches, getting shot at (my assumption), Iraq and Afghanistan WAR VETERAN.
They don't give a *FUCK* about you if you aren't blue.
Quote: Guerena's wife called 911 as soon as he was shot and that EMTs arrived two minutes later, deputies never allowed them to treat Guerena, citing security concerns
I wish he would of taken some of them with him. Not that it would change anything. I have no respect for the people who choose Law Enforcement as a career. People who wake up and deicide to take away other peoples freedom get no pity from me. Sure there are SOME who are decent. I'm just so sick of the 'just doing my job' and 'i dont make the laws' bullshit. Get another fucking job, no one is forcing you to do this.
Sue the county... And each and every member of the swat team, their commanders, the planners of the raid and whoever provided the incorrect info to the police. I agree with END THE FUCKING WAR ON DRUGS! They aren't killing drugs. Just innocent people.
-------------------- WWJDWWMD's?
What Would Jesus Do With Weapons of Mass Destruction?
Stories like these are the ones that need to be spread around, so people know what pieces of shit cops are and what this pathetic war on drugs is doing to our own people, what it did to a war veteran no less!
This was a horrible tragic situation that never should have happened. I can't even put into words how frustrated and angry I am. And as bad as this was, it could have been even worse. But violence is not the answer. I cannot allow threats, suggestions, or depictions of violence in this forum.
Former Marine killed by SWAT was
acting in defense, family says
May 13, 2011 - kgun9.com
TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - New details are emerging about Jose Guerena, the
man killed last Thursday in a SWAT incident at his Tucson home. He was
gunned down by SWAT members while his wife and young child hid in a
closet.
Now, the Pima County Sheriff's Department has taken responsibility for
the fatal shooting. The SWAT team said it was just executing a
narcotics search warrant when Guerena threatened officers with a
military rifle. But the Sheriff's Department has changed its story on
whether Guerena actually fired at anyone.
On Tuesday, candles and tributes to Guerena could be seen outside his
home. Family members said the 26-year-old former Marine served
two tours of duty in Iraq. A smashed window and a barrage of
bullet holes might be the type of scene a battle-hardened Marine would
find in a war zone but not the Tucson home he shared with his two
children and wife. Guerena's wife, Vanessa, said her husband died
thinking he was protecting his family from an invasion.
"I saw this guy pointing me at the window. So, I got
scared. And, I got like, ‘Please don't shoot, I have a baby.' I
put my baby (down). (And I) put bag in window. And, I yell ‘Jose! Jose!
Wake up!'" she explained.
Jose had just come home from working at the mine. Vanessa said he
had fallen asleep two hours before, only to wake up to chaos in his
house. It was Pima County SWAT executing a narcotics conspiracy search
warrant, but according to her, neither she nor her husband knew it was
the authorities until it was too late.
"You're saying only (they) yelled SWAT after the shootout?" asked KGUN9
reporter Joel Waldman.
"Oh, yes! Yes," said Guerena.
Vanessa said Jose grabbed a gun to protect himself from what he thought
were home invaders.
The Pima County Sheriff's Office denies that officers failed to
identify themselves. Lt. Michael O'Connor told KGUN9's Joel
Waldman that the SWAT team has a standard procedure when serving
high-risk search warrants of this nature designed to prevent the
suspect from confusing officers with criminal home
invaders. "We will have a lot police vehicles there, with
their lights and their sirens on. In this case... because it was
a narcotics high risk type of a search warrant, we had our large
armored vehicle there with the markings on it. It also has lights
and sirens, it was going. So we do everything we can to portray
the image that we are law enforcement, we are not home invaders."
O'Connor also said emphatically that this was not a "no knock"
raid. "This case was, we came in very high profile, lights and
sirens. We go to the door, we pound on the door. We wait
approximately 15 seconds. If no one answers the door, we breach
the door with a heavy tool and open the door."
The officer said that when the SWAT team got the door open, they found
Guerena crouched in the hall pointing an assault rifle at
them. According to O'Connor, Guerena said, ""I have
something for you!" He said that Guerena "brought this all on
himself by presenting himself the way he did."
Guerena's relatives disagree. "Now, they're saying this now that
they admitted for him not shooting back (SIC). They want to throw more
dirt on him," said cousin Oscar Garcia.
Garcia is referring to the issue the change story about whether Guerena
fired his gun. Initially investigators reported that he had, but
then later, they corrected that statement and said that Guerena had not
gotten off a shot. Deputies confirmed that Guerena's safety was
still on when his gun was recovered. Also, officials said that reports
that some SWAT officers' shields were riddled with bullets are also
untrue.
SWAT gunned Jose down with 71 rounds fired in just about seven seconds;
officials said they did not expect Vanessa to be home with their
four-year-old son, Joel, who ended up witnessing his dad's death.
Now he has questions about what happened, like so many others.
"The only thing he asked me, 'Mom, my dad a bad guy? They killed my
dad! Police killed my dad? Why? What did my dad do?'" explained Ms.
Guerena.
Jose's relatives want his children to know he did his best to be a
great husband, dad and patriot.
Authorities told KGUN9 that three other neighborhood homes were
targeted Thursday, all tied to a narcotics conspiracy. They say a large
amount of cash was found at one of the homes. But, not at the
Guerena house; all they said they found there was "evidence pertinent
to the case." At this time, officials aren't saying anything
more. However, Vanessa Guerena has insisted there were no drugs
or money in their home.
some of you responding are just as bad as the cops. saying it would be good if he took out some them is wrong. this war will never be won with violence. we do need cops in life to try and stop or catch real criminals, but they should leave non violent drug users alone.
-------------------- "We can get 2 birds stoned at once."
Quote: mexicanjewlucas said: some of you responding are just as bad as the cops. saying it would be good if he took out some them is wrong. this war will never be won with violence. we do need cops in life to try and stop or catch real criminals, but they should leave non violent drug users alone.
right, and thats what they "should" be doing, but there not, which is why people were saying the things they were saying.
A cop can quit his job at any moment, he can stand up and say no he won't break into a persons house based on a corrupt governments mission to make money.
The constitution says we have a right to bear arms which is for overthrowing a corrupt government and/or protecting one's self from various things which i would assume would include the dog killing/human killing/??? killing terror squad
now the family said they didn't wish to press charges or i read someone said that, so then they just drop the whole thing? If so then it can't really get any more obvious that we are dealing with a corrupt government. If you choose to stand behind a gun, you should be ready to deal with what happens when you kill an Innocent person, and its not taking a few weeks off paid vacation, nor is it saying 10 hail marries. Were talking 72 shots, bin laden only got 1...
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh® We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Quote: "The only thing he asked me, 'Mom, my dad a bad guy? They killed my dad! Police killed my dad? Why? What did my dad do?'" explained Ms. Guerena.
This is just too much. I had to try very hard to hold back some tears after reading that line. I just imagined my own family in this same situation and can't get past that.
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin.
Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
Quote: Humility said: I'll be the first to say it:
Wonder where all that "support the troops" bullshit is now?
Lying ass hypocrite Americans don't give a fuck about anything but their own assholes.
See what I said Alan and Doc_T? Better pick your side because the cops will bust down your doors on some bullshit and put 72 of them shits in your body.
And you'll be made to look like the monster.
Keep living that bullshit story you folks call a life. Thinking you can play both sides and come out on top.
You'll fucking get swallowed.
Can't be much more of a government slave than a veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan and what good did that get him? Not so much as a warning before they lit his government-supporting ass up.
Again: 72 times.
That's the kind of love they have for you. Check that, that's the kind of love they have for an in the trenches, getting shot at (my assumption), Iraq and Afghanistan WAR VETERAN.
They don't give a *FUCK* about you if you aren't blue.
Yeah because we are all hypocrite pussy shit Americans aren't we? We all love our government! Hail Obama! Hail the police department! We're all blind to the corruption that is right in front of our eyes! Quick, rip on us!
You must have assumed that I insinuated that all Americans are liars and hypocrites. That would be an illogical and irrational statement to make. There are over 300 million Americans.
That sentence sought to identify/single out a type/class of American, or rather individuals who behave in that manner, usually often, usually consistently.
what i cant understand, is why americans couldnt care less about their own citizens being murderd by the 'police'. what difference would it have made even if this kid had weed, or any other drug for that matter, he was murderd in cold blood for absolutely nothing.
imagine how many pigs would continue this 'war' if this
happend everytime someone was shot and killed by the PD for doing NOTHING or close enough..(consuming/selling drugs)
If Americans did that I guarantee there would be an immediate and *extremely* violent crackdown. People would unquestionably die.
At this point I don't think "Americans" stand one iota of a chance in a government crackdown situation. Some areas would be "Free" for a few weeks but would quickly become occupied by government personnel and vehicles (including tanks, helicopters and Armored Vehicles, the latter two of which even the police possess)
you give the american government too much credit, do you honestly think they could impose martial law or something similar to all of its people? when you consider the fact that america is $14trillion in debt already, how hard do you think it would be to suppress 'the people' and their movement?
if of course americans would be willing to riot/fight for their freedoms. and to be honest i doubt they will in our lifetime. at least at the scale where they drastically change something (like drug laws)
Quote: thelivingfreekshow said: The police are nothing more than rapists, thugs, and thieves. Opressors, murderers and facists....Only good cop is a cop on FIRE!!!
Quote: veggie said: This was a horrible tragic situation that never should have happened. I can't even put into words how frustrated and angry I am. And as bad as this was, it could have been even worse. But violence is not the answer. I cannot allow threats, suggestions, or depictions of violence in this forum.
You mean you WONT allow... Based on YOUR opinions, thats a good example on how the few decide what is acceptable for all of us... ridiculous and unnecasary!!!
SWAT raid fatal drama is revealed in
911 call
May 14, 2011 - Arizona Daily Star
The wife of a Tucson man killed in a Pima County SWAT raid May 5
pleaded for five minutes with 911 dispatchers to send an ambulance for
her mortally wounded husband, audio records show.
Often through tears and sometimes in broken English, Vanessa Guerena,
tells 911 operators that her husband had been shot by a "bunch of
people" who opened the door of their southwest-side home and "just
shoot him." Meanwhile, dispatchers worked to determine if she was
calling from a house where the SWAT team was serving a search warrant,
audio released Friday by Drexel Heights Fire Department reveals. It
takes about an hour for waiting medics to know what happened, and the
man is dead before fire crews are allowed into the home.
Jose Guerena, 26, a former Marine, was sleeping after the graveyard
shift at Asarco Mission mine about 9:30 a.m. when his wife woke him
saying she heard noises outside and a man was at their window. Guerena
told his wife to hide in a closet with their 4-year-old son, his wife
has said. He grabbed an AR-15 rifle and moments later was slumped in
the kitchen, mortally wounded from a hail of gunfire.
For about five minutes after Guerena was shot, his wife stays on the
phone trying to explain what happened and asking for an ambulance.
More than a week later, few details about the investigation that
brought the SWAT team to the home Guerena shared with his wife and
their two young sons are known. Details of the search warrant have not
been made public and deputies would not comment on what was seized from
the home.
The Pima County Sheriff's Department has provided no details about the
investigation that prompted the raid and little information about the
moments leading up to 71 gunshots being fired at Guerena, whose gun had
the safety on. He was shot 60 times, doctors told the family. Initially
the Sheriff's Department said Guerena fired at officers, but they
retracted that this week. Drexel Heights provided audio of the 911
calls after the Star filed a public records request.
Vanessa Guerena, 27, continuously asks the operator to "please, please"
send somebody to help her husband in a call in which she seems
desperate, frustrated and panicked and says she could hear people
talking outside.
About a minute into the 911 call a dispatcher who says she is with the
Sheriff's Department comes on and asks if the SWAT team was at her
house. Guerena sounds confused, and says her husband isn't talking to
her anymore. She then talks over two operators who are trying to figure
out if the house in the 7100 block of South Redwater Drive is among
those targeted to be searched that morning as part of an investigation.
The operator asks again if there were law enforcement officers at her
house and Guerena says yes, that they're outside. She then adds that
they had come inside earlier, shot her husband and pointed a "big ol'
gun" at her. She grabbed her son and worried she would be shot.
"Please send me an ambulance and you can ask more questions later,
please!"
Guerena tells the dispatcher that her husband had returned home about
6:30 a.m. after work and was sleeping.
Prompted by the dispatcher, Guerena says her husband was shot in the
stomach and hands.
The dispatcher asks Guerena to put her cheek next to her husband's nose
and mouth to see if he's breathing, but she replies in Spanish that her
husband is face- down.
The operator tells Guerena to grab a cloth and apply pressure to his
wounds, but the wife responds frantically: "I can't! I can't! There's a
bunch of people outside of my house. I don't know what the heck is
happening!"
A dispatcher asks if the people outside are the SWAT members. "I think
it's the SWAT, but they ... Oh my God!" Guerena says.
A dispatcher asks that she open the door for the SWAT, but Guerena
replies that the door was already opened by police.
"Is anybody coming? Is anybody coming?" she asks.
The operator tells Guerena help is on the way, but they're still trying
to figure out what happened.
"I don't know, that's it, whatever I told you, that's it," Guerena says.
Just after the five-minute mark, Guerena's end of the line goes silent.
The two dispatchers spend about four minutes talking to each other and
calling out for Guerena while trying to figure out if the call is
coming from the same residence where the warrant was served. At the end
of the 10-minute 911 call, a dispatcher says she has confirmation that
Guerena is outside with deputies on the scene.
Other audio records Drexel Heights released to the Star Friday indicate
the agency dispatched a medical unit at 9:43 a.m. but was told by the
Sheriff's Department to hold off.
Dispatchers said there were several addresses where the SWAT team was
going that morning and they were not sure if this house was one of
them, the audio shows.
The Sheriff's Department dispatcher said she had not received any
requests for medical help from deputies on scene. Drexel Heights fire
dispatcher asked: "You don't want us going in, right?" The sheriff's
operator then said: "I don't know what is going on. You guys go ahead
and hold off until we know what it's going to be."
The Sheriff's Department operator said people at the scene wanted the
medical help to stay back because they might be dealing with a
"barricaded subject."
Three other homes within a quarter mile of the Guerena house were
served search warrants that morning as part of the sheriff's
investigation. The addresses and the names of people who live in the
homes have not been made public. However, the Sheriff's Department has
said they found drugs and money.
Guerena was a Tucson native and Flowing Wells High School graduate. He
joined the Marines in 2002. He served two tours in Iraq in 2003 and
2005 as part of the Yuma-based MWSS-173.
That's fucking sick and disgusting. You shot the damn man seventy times, and you claim you have a "barricaded suspect"? You let the motherfucking veteran die. God damnit I hate this country. When I have children, they will not be born or raised within these borders. Fuck this place.
-------------------- There is a molecule for every purpose. There are only actions and reactions. Cut out the middle men. Everything I say is a lie.
if there was any true "law" upheld in this country, the SWAT team memebers responsible for this disgusting act would be facing death by firing squad. ABSOLUTELY UNPROFESSIONAL AND UNACCEPTABLE. my heart goes out to the Guerena family.
you shoot a man 60+ times and lie about him shooting first... after the man is dead and cant even defend himself? in front of his child and wife?? what kind of fucked up country do we live in
you police are all cowards for following your Sheppard, same as sheep. you police have no true heart. hope they are killed in front of their own family as well. I would much enjoy hearing that news story. they need to experience the same pain they are so easy to impose.
wish it was a suicide bomb instead of an ar15
the drug war is run by pussies who cant speak truth because they live in lies
-------------------- - grimR
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://egolost.com "I am already given to the power that rules my fate. And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts, so I will see. I fear nothing, so I will remember myself."
Dupnik won't release more info about SWAT shooting of Tucson man May 17, 2011 - azstarnet.com
The Pima County Sheriff’s Department will release no more information about the circumstances surrounding the killing of Jose Guerena during the serving of a search warrant by the department’s SWAT officers May 5 at his home.
Two weeks after the shooting the department has yet to disclose exactly what they were searching for in the Guerena home as well as three other residences in the area that were subjects of a drug investigation. Court documents that show what officers were searching for in the case have been sealed and what was seized as evidence has also been sealed.
Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, through a department spokesman Tuesday morning, declined an interview request.
No one from the department will comment about the case until the investigation is complete, Deputy Jason Ogan said Tuesday. There is no timeframe for when the investigation will be over, he said.
On May 5, five members of the SWAT team fired 71 shots at Guerena while serving a search warrant at the 7100 block of South Redwater Drive. He was shot 60 times.
The 26-year-old former Marine was sleeping at about 9:30 a.m. after working the graveyard shift at Asarco’s Mission Mine when his wife woke him saying she heard noises outside and saw a man was at their window. Guerena told his wife to hide in a closet with their 4-year-old son, his wife said. He grabbed an AR-15 rifle and moments later was slumped in the kitchen, mortally wounded from a hail of gunfire.
Guerena did not fire a shot and his gun had the safety on, deputies said, after initially saying he had fired on the SWAT officers.
71 rounds of ammunition divided by 5 SWAT members comes out to 14 shots per officer. If that isn't the definition of trigger happy I don't know what is. This entire story is so sickening and now his kid will grow up without ever knowing the father.
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin.
Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
Quote: SuperD said: 71 rounds of ammunition divided by 5 SWAT members comes out to 14 shots per officer. If that isn't the definition of trigger happy I don't know what is. This entire story is so sickening and now his kid will grow up without ever knowing the father.
Hopefully his kid starts a militia. Fuck the SWAT team.
Quote: Tucson KGUN’s Joel Waldman says the SWAT team prevented paramedics from going to work on Guerena for one hour and fourteen minutes.
While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler
Holy fuck, these are the stupidest fucking pigs ever. I don't usually use the word pigs but it seems to work here. They don't even let him get emergency help after they fucking shoot him? Holy fucking christ this is horrible. If this isn't a police state then I don't know what it is.
fuck this is messed up.
^What I said in the other thread about this.
Overall all this is just a very sad and fucked up thing.
how many police officers usually storm a house like five or six? A glock 27 holds nine rounds without any after market clip. This means out of five officers they all emptied a clip into him and then loaded up again and blasted more lead at him.
trigger happy cunts need to try that shit on me, i sleep with a mossberg 500 with three inch mag buck shot. i promise ill turn one or two to pudding before they get me.
--------------------
[quote]KristiMidocean said: Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]
maybe you are right im just going on the guns city traffic cops carry. but regardless it is illegal for the police to do anything above and beyond what is required to subdue the situation.
didnt they have to give him a chance to drop his weapon or is that just in the movies?
--------------------
[quote]KristiMidocean said: Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]
what there basically "trying" to say is he was pulling a bin laden and wanted to hose them all down as soon as they opened the door, except his gun had its saftey on the 'entire' time even after they pumped 72 shots into him and he laid dieing
so your right, but there lieing to try and cover it up inwhich case everyone is sure to believe them.
Even if he had said what they claim, thats a typical response to anyone tresspassing. People blow shots off into the air when kids throw rocks through a farm window or something
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh® We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
more of them would jump that bandwaggon when they get sick of there friends getting turned to pudding by buck shot.
--------------------
[quote]KristiMidocean said: Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]
the fear of being shot to death is the only reason they dont run around doing random searches on everyone for everything.
strap up man, someone is going to want to start Marshall law soon enough i thinks.
--------------------
[quote]KristiMidocean said: Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]
Marshall law is pretty much here and or its got its foot in the door. Authority will generally find a way to accomplish its agenda and become more powerful.
Quote: Tucson KGUN’s Joel Waldman says the SWAT team prevented paramedics from going to work on Guerena for one hour and fourteen minutes.
While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler
Holy fuck, these are the stupidest fucking pigs ever. I don't usually use the word pigs but it seems to work here. They don't even let him get emergency help after they fucking shoot him? Holy fucking christ this is horrible. If this isn't a police state then I don't know what it is.
fuck this is messed up.
^What I said in the other thread about this.
Overall all this is just a very sad and fucked up thing.
P.S.
Fuck those lying pigs.
Its going to GET a LOT worse as long as we take it. Our lives are worth nothing. The police would rather shoot you DEAD than to chance you even touching them. And now thanks to the supreme court they can come in your house whenever they feel like making up a reason... It took a revolution to make this country, it may just take one to reclaim it!
yeah one day if they find a single illegal mp3 in your house it will be justification for lead poisoning.
--------------------
[quote]KristiMidocean said: Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]
All you have to do is answer your door if the cops are there and if no warrant you can tell them to fuck off ( although if they want, they can fabricate a reason to force their way into your home), if you dont answer the door and they think you are up to something, or are just peices of shit, they can just kick in your door and run up in there. But if they had reason to be there then why wouldnt they just get a warrant? they can be approved in minutes. This new ruling basically makes it ok for cops to go door to door interrogating people and invading privacy, and if someone doesnt answer their door COPS NO LONGER have to get a warrant, they can come in on ANY WHIM they can think of. Our homes are definitely the ONE place where we should be assured our privacy. Now, that has been stripped from us. Soon we'll be living in tent cities so we're easier to watch. Why is it popular in this country for people in any position of power and authority SPIT on our Constitution, and treat it as it was irrelevent, or somehow out of date? Our freedoms will continue to shrink until either they are ALL gone, or we finally get sick of it and elect a leader who isnt a war mongering corporate puppet who is content with propping up dictators in foreign countries, spending us into oblivion, and trying to regulate our personal habits.
Quote: Tucson KGUN’s Joel Waldman says the SWAT team prevented paramedics from going to work on Guerena for one hour and fourteen minutes.
While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler
Holy fuck, these are the stupidest fucking pigs ever. I don't usually use the word pigs but it seems to work here. They don't even let him get emergency help after they fucking shoot him? Holy fucking christ this is horrible. If this isn't a police state then I don't know what it is.
fuck this is messed up.
^What I said in the other thread about this.
Overall all this is just a very sad and fucked up thing.
P.S.
Fuck those lying pigs.
Its going to GET a LOT worse as long as we take it. Our lives are worth nothing. The police would rather shoot you DEAD than to chance you even touching them. And now thanks to the supreme court they can come in your house whenever they feel like making up a reason... It took a revolution to make this country, it may just take one to reclaim it!
Pretty sure that law is only valid in Indiana....for the moment.
Quote: thelivingfreekshow said: All you have to do is answer your door if the cops are there and if no warrant you can tell them to fuck off ( although if they want, they can fabricate a reason to force their way into your home), if you dont answer the door and they think you are up to something, or are just peices of shit, they can just kick in your door and run up in there. But if they had reason to be there then why wouldnt they just get a warrant? they can be approved in minutes. This new ruling basically makes it ok for cops to go door to door interrogating people and invading privacy, and if someone doesnt answer their door COPS NO LONGER have to get a warrant, they can come in on ANY WHIM they can think of. Our homes are definitely the ONE place where we should be assured our privacy. Now, that has been stripped from us. Soon we'll be living in tent cities so we're easier to watch. Why is it popular in this country for people in any position of power and authority SPIT on our Constitution, and treat it as it was irrelevent, or somehow out of date? Our freedoms will continue to shrink until either they are ALL gone, or we finally get sick of it and elect a leader who isnt a war mongering corporate puppet who is content with propping up dictators in foreign countries, spending us into oblivion, and trying to regulate our personal habits.
Both sides in SWAT shooting case come out swinging May 19, 2011 - kold.com
Both sides spoke out Thursday about that SWAT team shooting two weeks ago that ended with the death of a former Marine.
SWAT officers fired more than 70 rounds when they killed Jose Guerena while serving a search warrant on his southwest side home.
The Pima County Sheriff's Department has reacted to what it calls "misinformation and emotionally charged speculation" in this case, but, a spokesman says, the department can't say much else because this is an ongoing investigation.
Now the attorney representing the AZCOPS police union says he's telling the SWAT team's story, after talking with team members involved in the May 5 incident.
Mike Storie also explained why he came forward.
"I'm shocked by the reckless statements made by the attorney for these folks, " Storie said.
He's referring to the attorney for the family of Jose Guerena.
Storie suspects the motives of attorney Christopher Scileppi who has made several comments on the case.
"I especially thought, when I saw him say that the last dying thoughts of Mr. Guerena would be 'who are these men,' was absolutely ridiculous and reckless and just meant to be inflammatory and to add credence to the lawsuit that I think he's envisioning down the road to make money on this thing," Storie said.
Storie said the SWAT team served a search warrant on the home in an ongoing conspiracy investigation.
No one person was named in the warrant.
He said the SWAT team was told in a briefing before the operation, "That there is an organization that's involved in drugs, home invasions, drug rip offs. Violent crimes."
Storie said officers found what they were looking for, including weapons, body armor and a partial police uniform.
"That's still be investigated, but there's information that this organization would conduct home invasions while disguised as law enforcement officers," Storie said.
For his part, the Guerena family's attorney Christopher Scileppi held a news conference Thursday too.
He said Storie's personal attack on him is just an attack on the messenger.
He said Storie made numerous allegations without proof.
Scileppi said the SWAT team had "lawyered up."
"After two weeks they've circled the wagons and they put out a fourth version of what happened now. So we need to get to the bottom of this, get the facts. Give us the information and let's go forward with this," Scileppi said.
Scileppi said the Guerena family wants to know what happened when Jose Guerena was killed.
"All, Mr. Storie, their lawyer, did today was attempt to discredit a Marine who served two tours abroad, and put out statements unsupported by facts. What the family wishes, what we wish, is for the Pima County Sheriff's office, (Pima County Sheriff) Dupnik, Storie to release facts," Scileppi said.
"From what I understand, Mr. Storie also said that nothing that was found in that house was illegal for any purpose, whether it be the vests, whether it be the weapons. That's my understanding. So they're attempting to put together a bunch of different facts to discredit and defame Mr. Guerena."
Storie said no arrests have been made yet in the case.
The Pima County Attorney's office continues to investigate the shooting itself to see if it was warranted.
Time for Dupnik to end his silence on deadly SWAT raid May 20, 2011 - Arizona Daily Star
It appears Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik's stone wall has developed some leaks. An attorney representing the SWAT officers who shot and killed a Tucson man in his home May 5 while serving a search warrant held a press conference Thursday and gave a detailed version of what happened that morning.
Still, Dupnik refuses to speak. Explaining why officers were at the Guerena family home, what they were looking for, what they found and why medics were kept out for an hour would, according to a press release Dupnik put out on Wednesday, pose a "very real threat to innocent lives if those details are released prematurely."
Dupnik's order of silence evidently does not extend to the officers who did the shooting.
Their attorney, Michael Storie, stood before reporters on Thursday morning and said that the man who was killed, Jose Guerena, was connected to a home-invasion ring.
Law enforcement found body armor, assault weapons and handguns at Guerena's house, according to Storie, who was hired by the Arizona Conference of Police and Sheriffs, a law enforcement union.
The SWAT officers had "no choice but to shoot," according to Storie. They encountered Guerena as he held an AR-15 rifle. One officer opened fire after, according to the attorney, Guerena said, "I've got something for you, I've got something for you guys."
The other officers, also standing at the front door of the home, followed suit and fired 71 rounds. Guerena was hit 60 times.
The public should hear directly from Dupnik about the shooting - what happened, why officers were at that home, what they found and what is being done next.
There are legitimate questions that demand answers. Instead, Dupnik has clammed up, and the official search warrant and legal documents outlining what law enforcement sought and what they seized from Guerena's home have been sealed.
If, as Dupnik's press release states, he truly believes that talking about the shooting would put innocent people at risk, that risk has been taken by his own officers acting in their own interest by making public their account of events. Dupnik no longer has an excuse for remaining silent.
Allowing the SWAT officers to speak while the boss refuses undermines public confidence in the sheriff and his department.
Dupnik is an elected official and his responsibility is to the public, and to the truth.
Family's lawyer: Authorities trying to discredit man May 19, 2011 - azstarnet.com
The man shot and killed by Pima County SWAT officers was linked to a home-invasion crew, the attorney representing the officers said Thursday.
Michael Storie said authorities found rifles, hand guns, body armor and a portion of a law enforcement uniform inside the house where Jose Guerena was shot by officers serving a search warrant May 5.
“Everything they think they’re going to find in there they find,” said Storie in a news conference called a day after the Sheriff’s Department complained media reports on the incident spread misinformation and encouraged speculation about events surrounding the shooting.
The Sheriff’s Department said Wednesday it would provide no details about the case to the public until the investigation is complete.
The search warrant and court documents showing what deputies were looking for and seized from Guerena’s home have been sealed by a judge and are unavailable to the public.
Christopher Scileppi, who is representing the Guerena family, said nothing seized from Guerena’s home was illegal and that Storie’s statements were unsupported by facts and meant to discredit Guerena’s character. Scileppi did not comment on the details of the case.
Thursday afternoon the sheriff’s department declined to comment on what the attorneys said.
All statements made by Storie on Thursday morning came from the five SWAT officers he is representing, he said.
The five officers had “no choice but to shoot” when they breached the front door of the house in the 7100 block of South Redwater Drive and saw Guerena holding a rifle, Storie said.
The house was targeted as part of an investigation into home invasions and drug rip offs. The Guerena house was among homes that “were identified as locations where these activities were being carried out from.”
No arrests have been made from any of the other homes where SWAT served search warrants, Storie said.
According to the SWAT members’ statements all law enforcement vehicles approaching Guerena’s home had lights and sirens on and parked in the driveway, Storie said.
Guerena’s wife, Vanessa Guerena, who was inside the house with their 4-year-old son, has said she did not see or hear lights and sirens and that Guerena thought they were being targeted for a home invasion, which is why her husband grabbed his AR-15 rifle and told her and their son to hide in a closet.
The raid took place at about 9:30 a.m. and Guerena, 26, was asleep after working the graveyard shift at Asarco Mission mine, Guerena’s wife said.
Storie said once parked outside the home, the lights and sirens were turned off. An officer banged on the door for about 45 seconds while identifying themselves as police, he said.
After that, five SWAT members broke in the front door and saw Guerena holding a rifle at the end of a long hallway.
One officer began shooting after Guerena placed the rifle in front of him and said “I’ve got something for you, I’ve got something for you guys,” Storie said.
The other officers at the front door of the house, also fired striking Guerena.
All five SWAT members were shooting from just outside the home and never entered the house, Storie said.
When asked why SWAT members did not rush in to render medical aid to Guerena, Storie said officers on scene “have to assume that there are other people with guns and that there are other people with body armor inside the residence.”
He said officers could not conclude Guerena was incapacitated because Guerena fell down into a room after he was shot and officers could not see him from the doorway.
Based on a photograph of a large blood stain inside the home, Scileppi said, Guerena fell down in clear view of the front door and officers could see him.
The SWAT officers fired 71 shots, striking Guerena 60 times.
The search warrant was not directed at any particular person, and Guerena’s name was not mentioned, it was targeting whoever might be inside the residence, Storie said.
If SWAT members had been let in to the home, those inside “probably they wouldn’t have been arrested,” Storie said.
While the SWAT team was at Guerena’s home, another SWAT team was serving a search warrant in a nearby home as part of the same investigation and Storie said, a man showed up during the search and said “you shot my relative.”
Storie believes somebody called from inside Guerena’s home and alerted family members to the shooting.
Scileppi said he would not comment on those allegations until he “has all the facts.”
A portrait of Jesus Malverde, believed to be a “narco saint” was found under Guerena’s bed, Storie said. He did not know if there were drugs found inside the home. Guerena’s wife denies having that in her home.
According to Storie, several days before the shooting, undercover officers in an unmarked car drove by Guerena’s home to do surveillance and 10 minutes after they drove by, they were alerted that their license plate had been run through Motor Vehicle Division by someone they say followed the unmarked vehicle from Guerena’s home.
That was considered counter-surveillance on law enforcement, Storie said.
Under the Federal Privacy Act, the MVD in Arizona cannot release information on a license plate to anyone other than to law enforcement.
Scileppi said it took two weeks for “the fourth version of the story” and these details to emerge because “they needed to put a story out that is going to protect them.
”Bottom line is they’ve had two weeks to construct a story, circle the wagon,” Scileppi said.
Scileppi asked Storie and the sheriff’s department to “release whatever information they have about the killing of Jose to help the family know what really happened. The family wants to know the truth.”
Scileppi has partnered with Patrick Broom for this case. The five officers Storie is representing are from the Sahuarita, Marana and Oro Valley police departments, and two from the sheriff’s department. The sheriff’s SWAT team is made up of officers from different agencies.
He is a marine. I would suspect him to have rifles, hand guns, and body armor. Who knows about the police uniform. It could be a Halloween costume or a gift from a friend.
-------------------- There is a molecule for every purpose. There are only actions and reactions. Cut out the middle men. Everything I say is a lie.
Quote: destructo_low said: He is a marine. I would suspect him to have rifles, hand guns, and body armor. Who knows about the police uniform. It could be a Halloween costume or a gift from a friend.
Okay we can keep talking or we can move.. PM me if you would like to start a march across America to the white house to ask congress the question of why are we losing our freedoms. I'm ready to move, quit my job leave, my family and do whatever is needed to peacefuly to regain control of our freedom before we lose it all. We can't keep accepting this as the norm,because if we do then when we are all in cages it will be to late to speak up. Lets get together and start a march acroos America I'm sure many will join us and aid us on our way to Washington to ask for our civil liberties and freedom back. All I need is someone to organize this and get a web site set up for those who wish to march, walk, ride bikes or whatever it takes to get across this huge country. Guys we have to do something if you can help or know someone who can please help.
-------------------- Legalize! Stop putting our children in prisons.
Report: Marine never fired on SWAT officers who fatally shot him By Chuck Conder, CNNMay 27, 2011 1:29 p.m. For more on this story, see CNN affiliate KGUN9.com
Tucson, Arizona (CNN) -- A U.S. Marine who died in a flurry of bullets during a drug raid near Tucson never fired on the SWAT team that stormed his house, a report by the Pima County Sheriff's Department shows.
The revelation was contained in an internal investigation released by the department Thursday.
Jose Guerena died May 5 after a SWAT team descended on his home in a Tucson suburb with a search warrant. His home was one of four believed to be associated with a drug smuggling operation in the area.
A video released Thursday by the sheriff's department shows the uniformed SWAT team pulling up outside his house, sounding their sirens, banging on the front door -- before kicking it in -- and opening fire shortly after entering the home.
Watch video on CNN affiliate KGUN9
Officers fired more than 70 shots, the investigation showed. Deputies said they opened fire after Guerena, 26, gestured at them with an AR-15 -- a semiautomatic rifle.
Some of the officers said they believed that Guerena fired on them, but the investigation showed that no shots were fired from the weapon and it was never taken off the safety position.
Initial news reports indicated that he had been struck by more than 60 bullets. However, CNN has seen an initial report from the medical examiner that details 22 bullet wounds.
A lawyer representing the deputies defended their actions.
"They absolutely responded how they were trained. They responded within Arizona laws, within the law throughout the nation," attorney Mike Storie said.
"If you are faced with that type of deadly threat, you're allowed to respond."
Guerena served in Iraq and was discharged from the Marines five years ago. He was working for a mining company in the Tucson area.
But authorities allege he also was involved in drug smuggling, strong-armed robberies and human smuggling.
A search of the home after the shooting revealed nothing illegal, although officers found weapons and body armor.
The five deputies involved in the shooting remain on active duty. No criminal charges have been filed and no disciplinary action taken.
The findings of the investigation are detailed in a five-inch thick report, including a 60-page statement from Guerena's wife, Vanessa, who was in the home at the time of the shooting along with a young son.
In addition to the video, the sheriff's department also released audio of Guerena calling 911 to get medical attention for her husband. Audio of the SWAT team's radio conversations was also included.
She has retained a lawyer, but no legal action has been taken.
"We just learned that the sheriff's department has released voluminous amounts of information in respect to this incident," said Guerena attorney Chris Scileppi. "We will review the documents and CDs, and will make ourselves available for comment in the near future." http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/05/27/arizona.marine.death/index.html
-------------------- Legalize! Stop putting our children in prisons.
I want to see something happen to these officers, they shot him 60 times? Thats cool with everyone? They say the officers reacted according to their training, I say the war vet reacted according to his training as well. So let me get this straight, the cops kick in this war vets door, murder him in classic cop fashion, dont even find anything, do NOT permit paramedics to help this man who's bleeding to death, then they receive no punishment? Nothing? They knew there would be a child in the house and still went up in there shooting, when they could simply set up an ambush for when the man left his house and took him alive instead of these nighttime raids which all too often lead to cops murdering someone in the confusion. I hope that lady sues the cops for wrongful death and wins an assload of cash! I love stories like these for one reason, they reaffirm my primal hatred for all cops.
In 22 seconds you hear a voice say "Boom, boom, boom," over a walkie-talkie. Any idea why?
Don't you love it how they all just stand in front of the door shooting totally in the open? Than after the barrage of bullets one guy even shoots an extra one "just in case." What retarded and WASTEFUL assholes :/
It really does not take THAT many shots to hit say 7 people? That's ten bullets per person.... What happened to being properly trained to kill in this situation? There just firing blindly essentially.
Also like there just bored and caught COMPLETELY OFF GUARD of the shooting... If they had acctually been ON GUARD on paying attention and being observation of everything this may not have happened. The fact they they were not prepared EVERY second of that raid shows improper tactics and probably training. You can seriously see some of their guns down as they are staring off in the distance as the first guy went in.
IMO all cops should not be hated for a few cops stupid action.... It's like saying all Germans hate Jews because Hitler was German. Just because the majority of cops are corrupted does not mean they all are.
Autopsy reports released in deadly Tucson SWAT shooting June 6, 2011 - azstarnet.com
The 26-year-old man shot and killed by a SWAT team during a raid last month was struck 22 times and a toxicology exam showed there were no traces of drugs in his blood at the time of death, according to an autopsy report released Monday.
SWAT officers fired 71 rounds at Jose Guerena from the doorway of his home while serving a search warrant the morning of May 5, officials from Pima County Sheriff’s Department have said. Less than a third of those shots hit Guerena, leaving some 49 rounds passing through walls and some hitting nearby homes, according to reports released by the department last week.
Guerena’s toxicology report showed there were no traces of drugs and only a low level of ethanol — 0.02 percent — some or all of which may have been produced after his death, a medical examiner from the Pima County Medical Examine’s Office wrote.
The report showed most of Guerena’s gunshot wounds were to his legs and arms. He was struck three times on his torso and grazed by a bullet on the head, according to the autopsy report.
Guerena was at his home in the 7100 block of South Redwater Drive with his wife and their 4-year-old son about 9:30 a.m. when the Pima County Regional SWAT team arrived to serve a search warrant, documents show.
SWAT officers had the sirens on for about seven seconds when they approached the house and knocked on the front door three times announcing themselves for 15 seconds, a video released by the sheriff’s department revealed.
Guerena’s wife, Vanessa, said in previous interviews that she heard noise and saw a man outside but did not know it was police. She said she woke up her husband who had just gone to sleep after working a graveyard shift and he told her to hide in a closet with their son.
Guerena was at the end of a hallway holding a rifle when officers began shooting at him, SWAT officers said in narrative reports of the raid.
The former U.S. Marine did not shoot and his AR-15 rifle had the safety on when he was killed, according to officials from the sheriff’s department.
There were no signs of medical intervention, the autopsy report said.
Medical members of the SWAT team did not render aid to Guerena, and a medical team from Drexel Heights fire was told to hold off for more than an hour, documents show.
Two robots with cameras from the SWAT team were sent inside the house about 40 minutes after the shooting, documents show.
Approximately an hour after the shooting, the SWAT team doctor pronounced Guerena dead at the scene based on video images from the robots, documents released by the sheriff’s department show.
Detectives seized body armor, a U.S. Border Patrol hat, two rifles and a gun from Guerena’s house as part of a drug trafficking investigation, reports show. Three other homes nearby were searched that morning, as part of the investigation where detectives seized about $100,000 cash, marijuana, weapons and a stolen vehicle, according to documents released last week.
Quote: Less than a third of those shots hit Guerena, leaving some 49 rounds passing through walls and some hitting nearby homes, according to reports released by the department last week.
Hey, sometimes a few innocent lives have to be put at risk as collateral damage in order to keep the streets 'safe' from marijuana and other inert powders and substances.
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin.
Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
We will see more and more of these military swat tatics if we don't vote for Ron Paul. Can't you all see that our government has declared lethal war with us because of our views.
Ron Paul 2012
-------------------- Legalize! Stop putting our children in prisons.
What the fuck is the point in sending a bomb threat bot in after you just saw half the house and filled the guy with the gun with so many bullets? You're wearing full armor, why not just be a man and check the rooms?
I mean this happens, but this case is extremely grotesque.
Tucson SWAT Team Cleared in Killing of Ex-Marine June 15, 2011 - Drug War Chronicle
The Pima County Sheriff's Department SWAT team that gunned down a former Marine in his Tucson home during a raid in which no drugs were found was cleared Tuesday of any wrongdoing in the incident. Jose Guerena, 26, died in a hail of bullets in his underwear in a hallway of his home as he responded gun in hand to his wife's report of armed intruders.
SWAT team members coming through his front door fired at least 70 rounds at Guerena, striking him at least 21 times. Guerena never fired a shot. The SWAT team prevented emergency medical teams from treating him for more than an hour. He was pronounced dead shortly thereafter at a local hospital.
Pima County Chief Criminal Deputy Attorney David Berkman said in a report issued Tuesday that the SWAT team members were justified in using deadly force because Guerena pointed his weapon at them.
"A close examination of the rifle revealed it appeared to have been damaged by being fired upon from such an angle that it must have been pointed toward officers," Berkman wrote. "The officers were mistaken in believing Mr. Guerena fired at them. However, when Mr. Guerena raised the AR-15 semi-automatic assault rifle in their direction, they needed to take immediate action to stop the deadly threat against them."
The report did not delve into how the SWAT team could mistakenly think it was being shot at, nor did it address the fact that no one has been arrested in the series of raids that took place the day Guerena was killed. Police found weapons and body armor in the ex-Marine's home, but those are legal items. The report also did not note the role that the choice to use SWAT when entering the home played in creating the situation.
In statements to investigators after the raid, SWAT team members said the raid on Guerena's home was part of a probe into "possible drug running, home invasions, and potential homicides."
But the only actual -- as opposed to potential -- killing has now been ruled not a homicide. Jose Guerena died at the intersection of Second Amendment rights and paramilitary policing. He isn't the first, and he certainly won't be the last.
Sick sick sick. We all knew they'd be cleared of any wrongdoing.
Quote: The SWAT team prevented emergency medical teams from treating him for more than an hour. He was pronounced dead shortly thereafter at a local hospital.
All shooting aside, how the hell can they get away with this without reprimand?
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin.
Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
He's right anytime there is something looking like a gun pointed at police they have the right to shoot first and then ask questions second. I don't understand why they didn't get this guy some medical attention. As long as we have military style swat teams kicking in doors and police backing them up we are going to see more deaths.
Ron Paul 2012
-------------------- Legalize! Stop putting our children in prisons.
Any time you do that they will shoot you and be cleared of wrongdoing.
Although this is factual it isn't logical.
The statement here seems to intimate that this individual committed aggression against police.
Instead he was awakened a few hours after being asleep and getting home from night shift. He thought a bunch of people were breaking in to his house.
Only one group of people thought he was pointing a gun at police.
Quote:
He's right anytime there is something looking like a gun pointed at police they have the right to shoot first and then ask questions second. I don't understand why they didn't get this guy some medical attention. As long as we have military style swat teams kicking in doors and police backing them up we are going to see more deaths.
That sounds absolutely fucking ridiculous. So if a little kid points an orange cap gun at a cop and goes "bang" the cop has the "right" to shoot first and ask questions second?
If what you are saying is that the cop is legally justified, I guess I can't argue with that, but then again a cop is legally justified to effect a violent and brutal arrest against someone that's in possession of cannabis.
I dunno; all of this is just a lot for me to handle. This has nothing to do with this guy pointing a gun at cops and everything to do with cops busting into his home in the dead of night/early morning.
They could have waited for him to leave in a car and pulled him over with weapons drawn if they figured he was a threat. Roll up on him at a red light.
Truth of the matter is, anyone that's a REAL threat, you're not going to barge into their house. You're going to catch them unawares in a place that will lead to you being able to use the least amount of force.
I agree that swat is used for all the wrong reasons. I just stated normal procedure for police. I don't care for them and I hope we can get Ron Paul in office in 2012 to end the fed and violent swat tactics.
-------------------- Legalize! Stop putting our children in prisons.