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Invisiblebaby9
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Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality?
    #14446131 - 05/13/11 03:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I love video games like world of warcraft, my boyfriend got me into it and now i still play even though he doesnt anymore... do you think someday in our lifetimes they will have world of warcraft that is like a headset that is totally real and 360 degrees and 3d?

I would love it! I heard the military is working on one, for training... maybe they will release a consumer game version soon?

it would probably be crazy expensive though... do you think it would have like a treadmill with it so you could run around in the game without running in to walls?!

:eek:


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OfflineLuSiD9
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: baby9]
    #14447086 - 05/13/11 06:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm sure it'll happen eventually... I bet if it does, it'll be in our lifetime

that'd be badass :awesomenod:


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Nothing is true, everything is permissible.

Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: baby9]
    #14447095 - 05/13/11 06:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, but it wont emulate our 3D world.  It will be a world in its own right, unknowable by those who do not live in it.  (and vise versa of course)

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InvisibleDawks
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: baby9] * 1
    #14447217 - 05/13/11 07:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think there will every be true consumer grade virtual reality. At least not in a capitalist society.

3d visions glasses and surround sound systems are available now and offer a fairly immersive experience BUT getting to actually feel the wind blowing through your hair and smelling the fresh soil in Elwynn Forest will just never happen.

I'm not saying this technology is impossible to create (me being an engineer and all)... it's just not practical in the capitalist world, where as you know EVERYTHING is motivated by profit.

Drugs like LSD are illegal because they show people that life isn't all about production and consumption of material goods. Acid lets us enjoy what we have AND GOD FORBID SHARE IT.

In capitalist society we are taught that self-worth is determined by financial worth and that if you own more then your neighbor you are BETTER THAN HIM. Sharing is a weakness. Giving is a weakness. Only producing and consuming material goods is acceptable.

Drugs like meth and heroin are also very much feared by the world powers for this reason. As it stands, people are motivated sex, material goods and entertainment. People are supposed to satisfy their dopamine craving in their brain by doing something such as: watching a comedy movie; playing world of warcraft; eating chocolate. (all of which they have to PAY for the privilege)

Drugs like meth and heroin are so feared because as soon as people realize that these rewards are FAR superior to the rewards currently being marketed than people would stop consuming and invest their time in drugs. This is bad for the world powers, "the rich", "illuminati" whatever you want to call them. They rely on us going to work, producing something, getting payed and then buying something someone else has produced. Anything else is ILLEGAL.

People are just the livestock of the rich. "Money" is just our rations, but only the "good" animals get fed. So we fear one another and compete for the affection of the farmer.

THIS (no I didn't go off tangent rant) is the reason why true virtual reality will never be a reality.

Virtual reality would simply DESTROY AND ELIMINATE 99.9% of the worlds market permanently. People would never need to travel, eat real food, have real sex, take real drugs ever again. The only thing a person would need is nutrition supplements... that's all.

Crime would stop, fear would stop and the world wold just permazone into their machines. The last addiction of mankind.

Even if restrictions were put on this machine saying retarded stuff like "virtual heroin and LSD is NOT allowed, nor is virtual sex" to stop people from getting hooked - it wouldn't matter. Eventually computer nerds (like myself :tongue2:) would find ways around these restrictions and make them public. Thereby violating the ultimate copyright and unlocking the brain for good. Anything, everything, you ever want - right at your fingertips.

Could this technology work if capitalistic society was abolished? I think so. But a lot of thought and planning would have to go into the management of the human race. For example, people would still have to eat in the real world - but food doesn't just magically appear, it has to be gathered and so on.

But theoretical politics could be argued for hours, there are simply so many things that could go wrong and so many different ways to do it that it's a whole debate in on itself.

The point is, the world will have to change COMPLETELY for a technology like this to every become a reality. Not only a change in leadership - but a change in the way humans think as a whole. Possibly by this time we won't even regard ourselves as "homo sapien" any longer.

Sorry... no virtual reality for us. We can (quite literally) dream though :smile: Lucid dreaming and psychedelic drugs are all the altered reality I ever need :smile:

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OfflineLuSiD9
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: Dawks]
    #14448133 - 05/13/11 09:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Dawks said:
We can (quite literally) dream though :smile: Lucid dreaming and psychedelic drugs are all the altered reality I ever need :smile:




qft :thumbup:


--------------------
Nothing is true, everything is permissible.

Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.

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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: Dawks]
    #14448441 - 05/13/11 10:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If we're assuming this would happen in a completely different non-capitalistic paradigm, who's to say we couldn't have robots doing all the manual labor for us? :awesome:

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Invisiblecortex
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: baby9] * 2
    #14448530 - 05/13/11 10:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Wait... what is "real"?







































:wink:


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Offlineencryptor
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: cortex]
    #14455294 - 05/15/11 08:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If virtual reality became reality then gamers would need sensor suction cups placed on their shaved head so that the game will know what you're thinking and thus move the floor (like a treadmill, but 360) so that you can walk/run in any direction without actually going anywhere.  It would be Virtual Reality!:syringe::mushroom2:

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Offlineviktor
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: encryptor]
    #14458689 - 05/15/11 08:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I did a Master's Degree in VR, and wanted to do a Ph.D. where I examined whether taking psychoactive drugs would increase the user's subjective sensation of presence inside a virtual environment.

My theory was that certain disassociatives would shift the emphasis from the tactile impressions of sitting in a chair, standing on a carpet in a VR lab etc. to the visual and auditory sensations that came through the headset.

They wouldn't let me study it, though. Maybe in a more enlightened age.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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OfflineLuSiD9
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: viktor]
    #14459361 - 05/15/11 09:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
I did a Master's Degree in VR, and wanted to do a Ph.D. where I examined whether taking psychoactive drugs would increase the user's subjective sensation of presence inside a virtual environment.

My theory was that certain disassociatives would shift the emphasis from the tactile impressions of sitting in a chair, standing on a carpet in a VR lab etc. to the visual and auditory sensations that came through the headset.

They wouldn't let me study it, though. Maybe in a more enlightened age.




if you ever get a study like that going, I would totally volunteer to be a subject :awesomenod::thumbup:


--------------------
Nothing is true, everything is permissible.

Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.

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Offlineviktor
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: LuSiD9]
    #14459964 - 05/15/11 11:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LuSiD9 said:
Quote:

viktor said:
I did a Master's Degree in VR, and wanted to do a Ph.D. where I examined whether taking psychoactive drugs would increase the user's subjective sensation of presence inside a virtual environment.

My theory was that certain disassociatives would shift the emphasis from the tactile impressions of sitting in a chair, standing on a carpet in a VR lab etc. to the visual and auditory sensations that came through the headset.

They wouldn't let me study it, though. Maybe in a more enlightened age.




if you ever get a study like that going, I would totally volunteer to be a subject :awesomenod::thumbup:




Simplified, my proposal was to have four groups:

1) Control, no drugs, VR, no prior drug experience
2) Control, no drugs, VR and prior drug experience
3) Experimental group 1, drugs, VR, no prior drug experience
4) Experimental group 2, drugs, VR and prior drug experience

I actually discovered the Shroomery while looking for potential ways to recruit people for group 4. I hypothesised that Group 4 would "do better" than Group 3 because their familiarity with drugs would allow them to go with the flow and relax into the virtual environment better.

Keeping control of Group 3 would have been a laugh though.


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Offlineencryptor
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: viktor]
    #14464716 - 05/16/11 08:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sounds like a Masters in Drug Science.:syringe::mushroom2:

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OfflineAnnom
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: Dawks]
    #14466441 - 05/17/11 06:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

> 3d visions glasses and surround sound systems are available now and offer a fairly immersive experience BUT getting to actually feel the wind blowing through your hair and smelling the fresh soil in Elwynn Forest will just never happen.

Unless there is a more direct connection to the brain, Matrix style.

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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: Annom]
    #14466585 - 05/17/11 07:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Annom said:
Unless there is a more direct connection to the brain, Matrix style.



I think a less invasive interface is both desirable and feasible in the long term.

As to the original question: yes, virtual reality will come to a point where it feels more or less completely 'real'. People will still experience subtle differences with the actual, 'real' world, but those differences will be gradually reduced as innovation proceeds. I believe there are two driving factors behind this: firstly the desire of humans to create a world that is as real as possible, and secondly the progress of technology that occurs through several interacting mechanisms, but that now and then yields products that can be used for VR purposes.

In the short to medium term, I expect VR to evolve along the path it is currently following: through the development of a number of technologies that are used to capture human output and to generate sensory inputs. Good examples of current artifacts are 3D technology (of any architecture), motion capture technology (Kinect) and flight-simulator type mechatronics to simulate motion and acceleration.

In the long term, I anticipate that exploratory techniques such as TMS, CES and tDCS will become more precise and will be better understood, developing towards practical applications. One of those applications could be VR, in which experiences are synthesized digitally and communicated directly to the brain, and input is obtained through a similar channel. This will eliminate the need for elaborate devices such as 3D glasses, dozens of speakers, fans blowing in faces, etc.

Quote:

I don't think there will every be true consumer grade virtual reality. At least not in a capitalist society.



The free market system is exactly what will enable the developments broadly outlined above: as long as demand exists, supply will follow. I'm pretty confident that demand exists. It is also pretty obvious that the first-movers will be parties that can justify the high prices associated with nascent technologies; think of large research and defense organizations. But the 'general public' will want to experience lifelike computer games and media as well. The huge market opportunity of hundreds of millions of civilians will prove an irresistible economic force that drives the development of VR technologies. And as with any new technology, it will emerge on the market first, and lawmakers will follow suit. By the time they do, the concept will be difficult to control, as we have seen with any technology or concept that appeals to a considerable part of the population, including drugs, weapons, the free market economy, democracy, alcohol, tobacco, porn, etc.

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OfflineIdiot
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: koraks]
    #14473188 - 05/18/11 01:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

While VR would be amazing there are already people that associate violence (and other negatives) to current entertainment.  When the separation between life and the virtual world blur I can see more people being susceptible to inadvertently causing harm to themselves or others due to confusion of which world their in.

Aside from the sociological impact VR would be freaking awesome and hope that there is some rudimentary VR where I may live out a full, awesome, stress free life in the few years before I die.
:awehigh:


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OfflineLostkeys
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: Idiot]
    #14503529 - 05/24/11 09:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

According to "Through The Wormhole With Morgan Freeman" we're only around 50 years from achieving photorealism in computer games... he then makes an interesting point.  We're so close to such a breakthrough that we could very easily already be beyond that point.  He points out that an increasing number of physicists have noticed that when examined closely enough, our reality resembles something akin to the pixilation that occurs when you sit too close and stare at an old CRT image...

Something to think about.


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Offline5HTSynaptrip
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: Lostkeys]
    #14503867 - 05/24/11 11:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'd like to buy a holodeck like they have in Star Trek.

If the replicator is an included addon then it's safe to say I'd just live in one. :lol:

Back when N64 and PSX came out I remember Electronics Boutique having "virtual reality" headsets that basically put the video output right in front of your eyes so that was all you saw.  The exact price escapes my memory but it was 2-300 bucks I think, and it didn't last long.  I've been dying to check out the 3D shit though and was wondering if anyone has that setup. How is it?


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Invisiblecortex
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: Lostkeys]
    #14505291 - 05/24/11 04:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Lostkeys said:
According to "Through The Wormhole With Morgan Freeman" we're only around 50 years from achieving photorealism in computer games...




50 years?  That seems a little conservative if you ask me.  Most technologies appear to tend towards exponential improvement over time;  I think 'photorealism' in terms of visual information transmission (TV, movies, games, &c) is much closer than 50 years.

Being conservative never really hurts in attempting to predict the future of technology, though.  Nobody notices if some milestone happens earlier than expected, but it's easy to see when they are late (e.g. 1984, 2001, 2005, Ray Kurzweil, those old Scientific American newsreels, &c).


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InvisibleDawks
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: 5HTSynaptrip]
    #14506236 - 05/24/11 07:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

5HTSynaptrip said:
I've been dying to check out the 3D shit though and was wondering if anyone has that setup. How is it?




I have an nVidia 3d vision kit and 3d compliant monitor.

The major downfall of nVidia's 3d vision solution is it's lack of compatibility. You need the nVidia glasses, dongle, compliant monitor AND the games have to be written in directX. Furthermore, even directX games tend to have a lot of issues with displaying the 3d correctly due to certain "illusions" used in game creation (2d sky for instance).

Eyesight is also a major factor. Unbalanced vision (one eye stronger than the other) can caused problems such as eyestrain and severe headaches. Some users with poor vision will not be able to experience stereoscopic vision at all. Luckily the 3d glasses used in this setup fit cleanly over your existing glasses.

On a positive note nVidia provides you with graphical tweaks for most games in order to get the most out of your 3d experience. Modern games are also jumping on the "3d" bandwagon now, making sure that they try to remove as many 3d compatibility problems from their software at development time.

The games I have tried with "3d vision" are: Unreal Torunament 3; unreal tournament 2004; Crysis and World of Warcraft. Aside from World of Warcraft all these game had numerous issues with displaying the games in 3d. For instance certain 2d effects on Unreal Torunament 3 would only display in the left eye and Crysis uses a 2d crosshair and so nVidia provides an obnoxious red dot as an alternative, which as far as I remember can not be disabled. Once you get used to ignoring the minor rendering issues however, the 3d visuals can be quite stunning and leave you feeling almost naked without them. Due to World Of Warcraft's development, it supports without any major issues. This game looks absolutely great in 3d.

Many newer games, like World of Warcraft are written with 3d support in mind. I'm assuming that this trend will continue for a little while and therefore the number of games that give you true 3d should increase proportionately.

The "3d vision kit" and monitor are not just limited to 3d games, they support 3d blu-ray's as well. Despite owning a 3d copy of Alice in Wonderland, I've never actually watched it in 3d so I can't give you my impressions of 3d film. Keep in mind not all "3d ready" monitors support 3d blu-ray's, you need a 1080p monitor.

All in all nVidia's 3d vision is a cool toy. If you've got a lot of spare money than by all means purchase this kit and enjoy your new dimension of immersion. If however you're simply looking improve your experience than don't bother. "3d vision" will not magically make boring games fun, nor will it give you a competitive edge. IN FACT, I'd go as far as saying that "3d vision" will actually significantly decrease your ability to play games competitively or for long periods of time. You'll probably end up either whipping out the 3d whenever you want to have a relaxed and casual visual experience or collecting dust until you wish to show it off to company.

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Invisiblekake
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Re: Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality? [Re: Dawks]
    #14507613 - 05/24/11 11:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Will virtual reality ever be as real as real reality?  I don't think so, because I don't think there is a need for it to be as real as real reality, nor do I think we can compute all of the complexity in our universe

However, you can count on there being a virtual reality that will FEEL just as real as real reality -- think the Matrix.  I would bet my life on it.


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