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OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: Murex]
    #1448270 - 04/10/03 10:01 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

That's a lame excuse. The fact is that Japan was on it's knees before the first bomb landed. After it landed they had issued an unofficial surrender, but the second one was dropped anyway.

America at the time just wanted to prove how powerful they are and the lengths they would go to in order to destroy an enemy. Granted, it worked, but that's still not a good reason.

First off, they could have at least targetted a military instalation. There is no excuse for purposefully nukeing a civilian city, no matter what rubbish your government feeds you (or do they just ignore that it ever happened?).

Every other war in human history has stopped without the benifit of nukeing civilian cities. It is totally unjustified.

Anyone even attempting to justify this is only demonstrating the absurdity of their own blind, ignorant patriotism.

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OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1448288 - 04/10/03 10:12 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

"Oil? was there oil in Bosnia? What are the other countries waiting for? If it's a just cause why don't countries like France, Germany, China and Russia get there as soon as possible?"

I'm not claiming that everything the US does is some sort of sly plan to benifit themselves. I know most Americans to be intelligent, friendly people, albiet a little uninformed of the world outside of their own country. But I do think that this latest war in the middle east was mostly (not entirely) concerned with US economic interests and Bush Jnr's pshycological need to gain his father's approval by succeeding were he failed. Not good reasons for a war.

As far as Bosnia goes, the other countries waited for nothing, they were there. It had UN backing and was a UN operation.

If other countries didn't get there as soon as possible it's because they realise it's not their job to police the world. They realise that it's none of their bloody business.


"Saving Tens of Thousands of American troops, remember we were attacked. Just thought you should know."

That maybe the rubbish you get fed. In reality, it was a demonstration of power to the rest of the world. Japan was on it's knees and had actually unofficially surrended after the first bomb landed.

Read the reply above, I'm not going to repeat myself, save but saying if you think melting tens of thousands of civilian men, women and children is justified in any way what-so-ever, you're insane.

It did not save thousands of US troops. The war would have been over in days anyway, and any one that does not suffer from total ignorance surrounding these events knows this already. Japan was crippled and defeated before the first bomb landed, they simply would not have had the resources to kill "tens of thousands of US Soldiers". The absurdity of your statment proves the limited knowledge you have concerning this historical event.

It's the equivilant of dropping nukes on Iraqi cities now. The war was over, just not officially. Go ahead and deny it, prove your blind, ignorant and unswerving patriotism.

Oh, and by the way: I just blasted the shit out of your argument.

Edited by oO_wombat_Oo (04/10/03 10:17 PM)

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #1448311 - 04/10/03 10:25 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I wasn't justafing the dropping of the bombs. My point was that someone would have done it to somebody when they discovered the technology to make nukes, and it could have turned out worse if that happened.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: Murex]
    #1448338 - 04/10/03 10:33 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

If, could, maybe...

What you say is true, but also maybe nobody would have dropped one.

There is more to consider. The US portrays its government and it's people as the pinnacle of global "truth, justice and fairness", more so than any other nation. Now if it's okay for the US to nuke civilian cities, what message does that give to other - less scrupulous - world leaders?

How could the US ever condem such action if another country were to take it in the future?


Edited by oO_wombat_Oo (04/10/03 10:35 PM)

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #1448893 - 04/11/03 05:20 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I'm not claiming that everything the US does is some sort of sly plan to benifit themselves



could of fooled me.
Quote:

I know most Americans to be intelligent, friendly people, albiet a little uninformed of the world outside of their own country.



I would disagree.
Quote:

But I do think that this latest war in the middle east was mostly (not entirely) concerned with US economic interests



Just saying it isn't so. Yes there is oil there and YES these people are being killed for just being alive. The countries that refused to get involved in this have shown their true colors. They accept the fact that people suffer but do not want to do anything to stop it.
Quote:

and Bush Jnr's pshycological need to gain his father's approval by succeeding were he failed. Not good reasons for a war.



My God is this a BS statement...*sigh*
Quote:

As far as Bosnia goes, the other countries waited for nothing, they were there. It had UN backing and was a UN operation.



I never said they were waiting. I said we stopped ethnic cleansing in the area. I was referring to those countries that you said that need help. When will France, Germany, Russia and China come help them. Why is it that we are the ones that have to help the world alone? And for the most part the UN was the United States. We supply the UN with 25% of their funding.
Quote:

If other countries didn't get there as soon as possible it's because they realise it's not their job to police the world.



So basically you're saying that a certain amount of oppression and torture is ok and none of your business. Tell me what is this acceptable level of murder until you get involved?
Quote:

That maybe the rubbish you get fed. In reality, it was a demonstration of power to the rest of the world.



no it was a little thing called pearl harbor, but what does that matter, it's just Americans.
Quote:

Japan was on it's knees and had actually unofficially surrended after the first bomb landed.



where did you find this? In war there is only one kind of surrender, an official one. However i would like to see where you found this information.
Quote:

Read the reply above, I'm not going to repeat myself, save but saying if you think melting tens of thousands of civilian men, women and children is justified in any way what-so-ever, you're insane.



No i am a realist. War sucks.
Quote:

It did not save thousands of US troops. The war would have been over in days anyway, and any one that does not suffer from total ignorance surrounding these events knows this already.



That's BS, as most of your responses. We would of won after losing thousands of American lives. not in days but possibly years, Japan wasn't Iraq.
Quote:

Japan was crippled and defeated before the first bomb landed, they simply would not have had the resources to kill "tens of thousands of US Soldiers"



so do you think we wouldn't of lost thousands of soldiers invading the mainland? Please do a little research and study up on the tenacity of the Japanese soldiers during WW2.
Quote:

The absurdity of your statment proves the limited knowledge you have concerning this historical event.




you're whole reply has been nothing but whining and opinion. You seem to be the only one holding this position. Let me guess we wanted Pearl Harbor so we could get into the war..right?
Quote:

It's the equivilant of dropping nukes on Iraqi cities now. The war was over, just not officially. Go ahead and deny it, prove your blind, ignorant and unswerving patriotism.



this proves how little you actually know. Comparing the strengh of the Japanese army before the bomb dropped to the current situation is not only laughable but just plain ignorant.
Quote:

Oh, and by the way: I just blasted the shit out of your argument.



You have got to be kidding me. You have made absolutly no point backed by nothing. Remember just saying it doesn't make it so.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Innvertigo (04/11/03 06:00 AM)

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Offlineenotake2
Stop Bush's war
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Registered: 01/30/03
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #1448936 - 04/11/03 06:12 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah the guy is a psychopath. Read this.


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.

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OfflinePaid
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: enotake2]
    #1449068 - 04/11/03 07:58 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

/Me likes oO_wombat_Oo a lot :-)
A voice of sense in a realm of nonsense


--------------------


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: Paid]
    #1449140 - 04/11/03 08:44 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

A voice of sense in a realm of nonsense




my sides are hurting from the laughter...


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: Paid]
    #1449161 - 04/11/03 09:02 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

A voice of sense in a realm of nonsense




I laughed until I cried.

Thanks for the laugh this morning.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlineflow
outlaw immortal
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #1449711 - 04/11/03 12:34 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

How could the US ever condem such action if another country were to take it in the future? 



because this type of shit doesn't happen anymore.
you can whine all you want about dropping bombs on a civilian city, but thats how WWII was fought, on both sides.  we just had the bigger bomb. :tongue:

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1449733 - 04/11/03 12:41 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I laughed until I cried.

And then you pulled your pants up?  :smile:


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1450005 - 04/11/03 02:01 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Invvertigo, you have serious problems.

Here's a few quotes best demonstrating his argueing prowess:-


- "That's BS, as most of your responses. We would of won after losing thousands of American lives. not in days but possibly years, Japan wasn't Iraq. "
(Oh really? Great argument there)
- "My God is this a BS statement...*sigh*"
- "No i am a realist. War sucks."
- "could of fooled me."
- "I would disagree."

and then, to top it all off, I get this:-

"You have got to be kidding me. You have made absolutly no point backed by nothing. Remember just saying it doesn't make it so. "

Should I even bother replying to this guy!!??  :confused:




Edited by oO_wombat_Oo (04/11/03 02:01 PM)

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #1450057 - 04/11/03 02:16 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

- "That's BS, as most of your responses. We would of won after losing thousands of American lives. not in days but possibly years, Japan wasn't Iraq. " (Oh really? Great argument there)
- "My God is this a BS statement...*sigh*"
- "No i am a realist. War sucks."
- "could of fooled me."
- "I would disagree."




I calls em likes i sees em.

Quote:

Should I even bother replying to this guy!!??




all i ask is that you make a little sense. There wasn't one statement that you made that even came close to reality or anything that can be construde as logical thought. I also like how you only wanted to discuss the dropping of the Atom bomb and not the rest of your accusations.

Demonstrating absurdity with the absurd.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Invisibleslppe
the eye

Registered: 02/25/03
Posts: 401
Loc: tripped out
Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #1450096 - 04/11/03 02:28 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

More on Georgie's frog-exploding activities:
Someone asked me for the source on young George W.'s frog-exploding experiments, so I did some searches and came up with some ... interesting stuff. Interesting? How about terrifying? This is a real life horror story. It ain't no Stephen King movie. The real life Dubya inspires images of the devil's child in the movie "The Omen". Or worse.

In biographical sketch of Bush in the New York Times, Nicholas Kristoff quotes Bush's boyhood friend Terry Throckmorton as saying, "We were terrible to animals." When the frogs came out after a rain, the kids would get BB guns and shoot them, Throckmorton said, or worse. "Or we'd put firecrackers in the frogs and throw them and blow them up'"""
------------------------------------------------------

If that article is true it makes me want to hurt bush even more :shocked: :mad: I serioulsly hate that guy, if I ever caught him outside of his protected oval office I would probably stomp his head.  Anybody the hurts frogs is an evil bastard in my opinion.
 

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #1450130 - 04/11/03 02:38 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

"We would of won after losing thousands of American lives. not in days but possibly years, Japan wasn't Iraq. " (Oh really? Great argument there)



My uncle was a U.S. Marine in WWII fighting the Japanese in the Pacific. They were much more tenacious than the Iraqis. They were vicous fighters, smart, resourceful and loyal to the Emperor. Hell, 20 years after the war they still found Japanese soldiers holed up on islands and still ready to fight. What do the Iraqis do... they almost fight like the French.

Taking the Japanese mainland was going to be no cakewalk. U.S. Generals estimated (I believe) that it would take a million men. Tell that to a country after all the lives given on the beaches of Normandy, throughout Europe and the Pacific - that we're gonna gamble a million American lives instead of dropping a couple of bombs. Sorry, Truman wasn't that daft.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: slppe]
    #1450133 - 04/11/03 02:39 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

What younge male hasn't done something like that? I used to do shit like that when I was 8 or 9. So what. It's wrong, but it isn't like it is uncommon.
Quote:

Interesting? How about terrifying? This is a real life horror story. It ain't no Stephen King movie. The real life Dubya inspires images of the devil's child in the movie "The Omen". Or worse.



We must have millions of little demon children running around then. Nice job trying to make him look like some kind of demon child though. Better luck next time.
Notice it says "the kids" not George. Others did it too. It ain't uncommon.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Registered: 07/18/02
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: z@z.com]
    #1450149 - 04/11/03 02:44 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

The perfect ones don't have..

Any skeletons, and all your other sins
Any skeletons, in the closet
Any skeletons, any misfortunes
Any skeletons, hiding in the closet
Any skeletons, Any skeletons
In the Closet!It's insanity, puppetmaster


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all

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OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
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Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #1450157 - 04/11/03 02:46 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

OK...so I shouldn't bother, but I just can't resist. It's too easy.

"They accept the fact that people suffer but do not want to do anything to stop it."

That's statement is ridiculous. They do want to stop it, of course. That's what the UN is for. Unfortunately, your turnip-brained president decided to fly his stupid flag in the face of the International community and do what he wants. Which - so far - has resulted in the death of over 100 American soldiers and over 1000 Iraqi civilians, and the war's not yet over! Don't forget, that figure doesn't count that thousands of civilians that had their arms and legs blown off, are crippled, blind and maimed in some other way - and there's thousands of them. Nor does it count the number of people who have lost mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers, yet somehow survived themselves. I'll bet those people are just so glad the good old US of A did "something to stop the suffering". No wonder their mothers are blowing themselves up in order to retract some small measure of revenge.


"My God is this a BS statement...*sigh*"

No it's not. And I'll tell you, it doesn't take a genius to figure it out either. I'm certainly not the only one! (try the rest of the goddamn world)


"Why is it that we are the ones that have to help the world alone?"

Jesus Christ. YOU'RE NOT. How many more planes have to hit American buildings before you bloody well realise this!?


"Tell me what is this acceptable level of murder until you get involved?"

Well for me personally, bombing Afgan wedding ceremonies or foreign embassys counts. Let alone nukeing civilians.


"no it was a little thing called pearl harbor, but what does that matter, it's just Americans"

Are you serious? The bombing of pearl harbour - a military installation - calls for dropping two nuclear weapons on civilian cities. You're out of your mind.

Well, I did ask you to go ahead and prove your ignorant, unswerving patriotism by saying something like this. I guess I only got what I expected.


"you're whole reply has been nothing but whining and opinion."

You're a laugh, mate. I'm glad you showed me how to do it properly!    :wink:



So next time you ask yourself, "Why does everyone seem to hate America? Why is there so much International distrust of America?" think about this argument. Think about what I'm saying and think about your arrogant, ignorant and ludicrously patriotic replies. That's why

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Offlinearabmobster
#1

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 317
Loc: Palestine
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: Murex]
    #1450350 - 04/11/03 04:05 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

i agree with oO_wombat_Oo its all for the oil
we have more freedom then the americans

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Shame on Australia, the UK & the US! [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #1450494 - 04/11/03 05:14 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OK...so I shouldn't bother, but I just can't resist. It's too easy.




Really? I?m not impressed. You're just regurgitating the party line. I'll play if you will I suppose.

Quote:

That's what the UN is for




Yeah and 12 years later they're still working as hard as possible. To even use the UN as an example of efficiency is laughable at best. 12 years of "don't make use give you another ultimatum". You can't honestly think that the UN was doing its job. Right?

Quote:

Unfortunately, your turnip-brained president decided to fly his stupid flag in the face of the International community and do what he wants.




along with 78% of our population, but hey, who's counting. We, unlike the UN, stuck to 1441 and its implications.

Quote:

Which - so far - has resulted in the death of over 100 American soldiers and over 1000 Iraqi civilians



every life is sacred, but I have to tell you 100 out of 300,000 troops is outstanding. As for the civilian comment, it is a tragedy which could have been avoided if Saddam would of followed the SURRENDER agreements it promised. The coalition has proved that they care about the civilians and made every attempt at minimizing collateral damage. To think otherwise is ignorant.

Quote:

Don't forget, that figure doesn't count that thousands of civilians that had their arms and legs blown off




by us or from Saddam's republican guards?

Quote:

Nor does it count the number of people who have lost mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers, yet somehow survived themselves. I'll bet those people are just so glad the good old US of A did "something to stop the suffering". No wonder their mothers are blowing themselves up in order to retract some small measure of revenge.





Not everyone will like what we do and if you ask the average Iraqi on the streets they are very thankful. It's too bad many people would rather see them suffer under the worthless UN resolutions.

Quote:

No it's not. And I'll tell you, it doesn't take a genius to figure it out either. I'm certainly not the only one! (try the rest of the goddamn world)




here's my problem with your "supposed" points. You say something as if it were fact and back it with "it is so true!!" you hate Bush and it's that simple. I can accept that but don't blow sunshine up my ass to try to make your point.

Quote:

Jesus Christ. YOU'RE NOT. How many more planes have to hit American buildings before you bloody well realise this!?




who else, besides the coalition of 50+ (or 40+)countries, will do this? Why is it our fault that a bunch of cowards that have no respect for human life run an airplane into a building? I'm so sick of people saying that we need to understand them. I say screw that, the world, or in this case the coalition, is taking care of the problem directly. It's too bad other countries would rather cow tow to these cowards.

Quote:

Well for me personally, bombing Afgan wedding ceremonies or foreign embassys counts. Let alone nukeing civilians.




Way to NOT answer the question. Tell me what is this acceptable level of murder until you get involved? or are you willing to allow hundreds of thousands of people suffer because you don't think they deserve to be helped?

Quote:

Are you serious? The bombing of pearl harbour - a military installation - calls for dropping two nuclear weapons on civilian cities.




They attacked us. It's called a defense. With that said the point can be made that you are against the bombing of Nazi Germany. If not then you might want to study up on a city called Dresden....hell while your at it look up London.

Quote:

You're a laugh, mate. I'm glad you showed me how to do it properly!




your talk is big, too bad your points aren't as impressive.

Quote:

So next time you ask yourself, "Why does everyone seem to hate America?




oh I know why, but I don't really care....I know that what my country is doing in Iraq is the right thing to do.

Quote:

Why is there so much International distrust of America?" think about this argument. Think about what I'm saying and think about your arrogant, ignorant and ludicrously patriotic replies. That's why.




towing the line I see.

am I supposed to be impressed?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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* Six days of shame
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Xlea321 1,364 30 03/27/03 07:49 AM
by Azmodeus

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