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SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
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Re: Drug war supporters [Re: Tritium]
#14442560 - 05/12/11 10:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Moral reasons to support the war on drugs? Such as the 35,000+ dead in Mexico as a result of the drug war? The millions wasting their lives in prison? the moral righteousness one feels when they are able to control another persons body? What exactly are the moral reasons to support the war on drugs? I completely deny the possibility of morally supporting the war on drugs. If you claim to support the war on drugs for moral reasons you are a liar.
imo
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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Newlord
The Evil White Man


Registered: 05/12/11
Posts: 720
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Re: Drug war supporters [Re: SlashOZ]
#14442785 - 05/12/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Just to start off on this topic, I am no longer a traditional drug user, but I do drink.
Now this is a topic I am confused on. I am sympathetic towards the pot smoking and hallucinogenic community but I feel nothing but detest and contempt towards the tweeking and the heroin junkies dirtbags. I know some of the more emotional members might feel that it's either all or nothing with the drug war and drug legalization but I do not think it is that easy.
Let me propose something, as a person who holds some conservative values, I do not know if the reason why at least half of the drug using community ends up left leaning is because of the drug, or because of popular and accepted culture promoted on the television and in music. I honestly believe it is the latter. But let me elaborate on the first topic [legalization of drugs]. I think the radical left is what puts off mainstream society from legalization.
Meth and heroin have done nothing but destroy the users and communities who partake in its use, I believe these drugs should be criminalized for the greater good. But with weed and and hallucinogenics, there is a market for it, and society will not suffer from a certain demographic using it. For example, Amsterdam used to sell Mushrooms until the Swedes starting jumping off of roofs of houses in droves, but I believe with legalization it is possible to "tame the drug" so to speak. But with Heroin and drugs like meth, it is impossible to use these things without developing an addiction, that is why we are better off without them.
The mainstream community is already accepted towards the weed and Hall. community, but anything else is pushing it. tl;dr
I understand both sides, Puritan sounds good on the ears, but it is hard to practice. Just like saying "legalize everything."
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Edited by Newlord (05/12/11 10:54 PM)
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: Drug war supporters [Re: Newlord]
#14442801 - 05/12/11 10:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Bah, provide sources for your presumptions. Because, although you may be able to see the junkie on the street, vomitting between their knees, and hear the report of some meth addict who raped someone...
There are also the responsible (YES, responsible) folk who enjoy meth or heroin.
THey do exist.
You are playing in to a presumptuous and primarily conservative media-driven smear campaign against these folks, coz there are a few that fuck up bad.
Those people need HELP, not hindrance... and the OVERARCHING fact is that, no matter what.. people will still take what they want, regardless of the law. Least we can do is help those in need, and leave those who are fine... the fuck alone.
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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Newlord
The Evil White Man


Registered: 05/12/11
Posts: 720
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Re: Drug war supporters [Re: ZenXi6]
#14442816 - 05/12/11 10:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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You drive a good point with the "People will get high regardless" point, but I will counter with the point of should we legalize identity theft because so many criminals engage in it?
The fact is there is no such thing as a responsible meth or heroin user. At least in my personal experience. I don't know about yours.
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: Drug war supporters [Re: Newlord]
#14442945 - 05/12/11 11:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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People often throw that back at me when I make that point, so I don't think I'm posing it right.
Here we go:
A drug does NOT necessarily lead to someone hurting ANOTHER individual or their property (no matter what you say, because I do know responsible meth users.. in fact.. he's a fucking high school drama teacherm, and just likes meth.. I have other friends who dabble and are responsible people, as well as friends who occassionaly use heroin. The drug elitism thing is subjective as fuck).
Stealing someone's identity DOES harm, another person's property.
So, the crux there is that, harming another person or their shit is not. Harm yours all you like, but when it spills over into anothers.. that's breaking the law.
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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punkrocker292004
i am a liar



Registered: 12/17/09
Posts: 2,921
Loc:
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Drug war supporters [Re: Newlord]
#14442998 - 05/12/11 11:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Newlord said: You drive a good point with the "People will get high regardless" point, but I will counter with the point of should we legalize identity theft because so many criminals engage in it?
The fact is there is no such thing as a responsible meth or heroin user. At least in my personal experience. I don't know about yours.
-------------------- EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW on a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero-tyler durden watch me
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Kada
Asha'man


Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,394
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 3 days, 10 hours
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TRying...to ... hard.... must... just accept... people... doing what they ... want to do... drug.. ;aws ... destroying.... the wor.lds.
drunk much worse, love vodka.
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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Newlord
The Evil White Man


Registered: 05/12/11
Posts: 720
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I am open to your experience with heroin and meth users compared to the responsibility and community cohesion they exhibit.
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: Drug war supporters [Re: Newlord]
#14443046 - 05/12/11 11:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Don't you see Newlord?! That is the EXACT argument used against other drug users.. with no founding other than sensationalist nonsense!
Don't fall prey to that trap....
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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Kada
Asha'man


Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,394
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 3 days, 10 hours
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Re: Drug war supporters [Re: ZenXi6] 1
#14443061 - 05/12/11 11:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Drugs are awesome. That is all.
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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Newlord
The Evil White Man


Registered: 05/12/11
Posts: 720
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Re: Drug war supporters [Re: ZenXi6]
#14443063 - 05/12/11 11:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
ZenXi6 said: Don't you see Newlord?! That is the EXACT argument used against other drug users.. with no founding other than sensationalist nonsense!
Don't fall prey to that trap....
Indeed, which is what makes debate about complete drug legalization so complicated.
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1,173
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: Drug war supporters [Re: Newlord]
#14443084 - 05/12/11 11:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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So, we must not get bogged down in the subjective, and thinking we know what's best for another.. and get to the source! provide opportunities for people to BE their best, rather than presume they're going to fuck up. Refer back to my post about where the debate SHOULD be..
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We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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realfuzzhead



Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 10,783
Loc: above the smog layer
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Quote:
realfuzzhead said: its kinda sad that people really think they need the government to keep the evil drugs away from them. Take some responsibility for yourself, I think if we legalized drugs and spent 1/8th the money we saved on educating the public about them honestly alot more people would be better off.
"I need the nanny state to protect me from myself! I wont do heroin if its legal but all those other people would!! we need to protect them from themselves by throwing them in cages"
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guywiththegun
Shroom Chewer/Beer Brewer



Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 613
Last seen: 2 months, 29 days
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I support the drug war in that I think we need to take those guys in Mexico to town. I think we need to knock out their profits before they start going above the border and beheading us, or setting crowded nightclubs on fire, or machine-gunning elementary schools, or any number of known cartel tactics used in Mexico.
I don't support the war on drug users. I think a few are capable of being legalized (weed, LSD, shrooms, things without addictive potential), but we need to have some sort of treatment program for guys who need to get off meth/heroin/opiates and shit like that. Drug addiction isn't a criminal problem to me, it's a social and a health problem. I think if we can shut down cartel activity, or at least curb it, we'd go miles in treating the people who need it, instead of imprisoning everyone equally.
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yogabunny
fancy cat



Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 11,281
Loc: Nasty Women Get Shit Done
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Quote:
learningtofly said: If drugs were legal I would be on heroin and meth right now, thankfully i don't have easy access to them right now.
I used to turn my friends into hardcore junkies I know what they are like and I used to be totally addicted to speed I couldn't even watch somebody else doing it without getting heavily fiended. I love drugs and I'm just glad I don't have easy access to them
where do you live? under a rock? drugs like meth and heroin are rampant even in the smallest of towns. your logic is so skewed and selfish!
according to this logic, the drug laws are fine the way they are because YOU wouldn't be able to control yourself if they change, meanwhile people everywhere are getting locked in cages for non-violent drug offenses. some, never even getting caught with any substance, are getting LIFE in prison. this is ok with you??????
the consequences of this war on drugs are bigger than many of you are able to imagine and there's a lot more to consider than the people who get addicted to these substances. but people who do get addicted need help, not to be locked up.
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AltecLansing
Trafalgar Square Pigeon Fiasco



Registered: 07/11/08
Posts: 950
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: Drug war supporters [Re: yogabunny]
#14444830 - 05/13/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Far as I'm concerned the "casualties" of legalization will have gotten a pretty hefty shove from Darwin. If you can't control yourself around hard substances then don't do them, legally or otherwise. If you can't control your drinking then stay the fuck out of the bar.
Yes, the addicts lining up at dispensaries (stores?) to buy speed would be pretty bad to look at, but people in low-income urban (and sometimes rural) areas get that view already.
Social health not reprimand, etc, etc.
-------------------- I don't use jelly.
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nice1
Not the droid your looking for



Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Drug war supporters [Re: Tritium]
#14444835 - 05/13/11 10:47 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I support all wars because the world would be jobless without them.
and that would just be too utopian.
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Cyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out



Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
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Re: Drug war supporters [Re: yogabunny]
#14444862 - 05/13/11 10:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
punkrocker292004 said:
Quote:
Newlord said: You drive a good point with the "People will get high regardless" point, but I will counter with the point of should we legalize identity theft because so many criminals engage in it?
The fact is there is no such thing as a responsible meth or heroin user. At least in my personal experience. I don't know about yours.

I used meth quite a bit for a few months. I never raped or killed or stole.
The focus is always on the negative actions for hard drugs, because those that use responsibly usually don't show it. Using your flawed logic, alcohol should also be banned. Because there are A LOT more rapes and crimes committed on alcohol.
Quote:
yogabunny said:
Quote:
learningtofly said: If drugs were legal I would be on heroin and meth right now, thankfully i don't have easy access to them right now.
I used to turn my friends into hardcore junkies I know what they are like and I used to be totally addicted to speed I couldn't even watch somebody else doing it without getting heavily fiended. I love drugs and I'm just glad I don't have easy access to them
where do you live? under a rock? drugs like meth and heroin are rampant even in the smallest of towns. your logic is so skewed and selfish!
according to this logic, the drug laws are fine the way they are because YOU wouldn't be able to control yourself if they change, meanwhile people everywhere are getting locked in cages for non-violent drug offenses. some, never even getting caught with any substance, are getting LIFE in prison. this is ok with you??????
the consequences of this war on drugs are bigger than many of you are able to imagine and there's a lot more to consider than the people who get addicted to these substances. but people who do get addicted need help, not to be locked up.
QFT. In fact its quite selfish and irresponsible of you learningtofly to suggest that others should be punished because you cannot control yourself. And the punishment is not just not having ready access, but prison, death, etc. Takes some damn responsibility for your actions. If you cannot control yourself, learn to, get help to, etc.
-------------------- Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world? There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K Something abut that anaesthetic rush... Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One
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yogabunny
fancy cat



Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 11,281
Loc: Nasty Women Get Shit Done
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Quote:
AltecLansing said: Far as I'm concerned the "casualties" of legalization will have gotten a pretty hefty shove from Darwin. If you can't control yourself around hard substances then don't do them, legally or otherwise. If you can't control your drinking then stay the fuck out of the bar.
Yes, the addicts lining up at dispensaries (stores?) to buy speed would be pretty bad to look at, but people in low-income urban (and sometimes rural) areas get that view already.
Social health not reprimand, etc, etc.
amen.
the government cannot protect us from ourselves. the war on drugs has proved this, lol. for thousands of years human beings have wanted to alter their consciousness. whether drugs are legal or illegal is not going to change this. if we "take down" a mexican drug cartel, another one is going to pop up in it's place. SUPPLY AND DEMAND PEOPLE.
my point is why not try a new way? a way in which trillions of dollars are fed into education, scientific research, harm reduction, REAL EFFECTIVE THERAPY for addicts, and I don't know....exploring the motherfucking universe; instead of the prison industrial complex.
imagine a world in which we all take charge of our health and well being and stop allowing ourselves to manipulated into acting and being motivated by FEAR?
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thoughts
imagining.


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 16,816
Loc: here.
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Re: Drug war supporters [Re: yogabunny]
#14444922 - 05/13/11 11:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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We need to quit yappin' so much and start marching the streets. Let's get our change.
-------------------- I need Jesus.
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